Teenage girl 'walked for days' in forest after surviving US plane crash

[willyumiii]

1) Since when do most phones have GPS?

2) In heavily forested areas like this GPS does not work under the canopy of trees.

3) I lived and worked in the forests/ mountains of the Pacific Northwest for decades.

Basic safety taught even to young children:

If you are lost, walk downhill until you find a creek or stream.

Follow that creek or stream downhill until you find the river it flows into.

98% of the time there will be a road following the river.

You will be found on the road!

She did well,

But it seems she shold know the condition of the others in the crash at the time she left the crash site.

[willyumiii]

Phones can get location from cell towers quickly, but when no signal is available they position from the GPS satellites.

Did you and the Knave really not know that?

Oh my God! ... You're talking about expensive "Satellite phones" ... used by yachtsmen etc. Or possibly dedicated GPS devices (Hand held or installed in cars)

Download an offline map now (On your normal cell phone) ... turn off wifi and data ...open your offline map .... and if there is a little blue arrow showing you where you are on that offline map .... I'll give you 10, 000,000 Baht.

EDIT: Just tried it on my Samsung Galaxy 5. Turned off wifi and data .... no GPS. I wish I has an expensive satellite phone ... like a Navy Seal!! I think I-Phones have the function though. Too bad the girl didn't have an IPhone.

By the way, GPS generally won't work indoors - it needs to see the satellites.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.androits.gps.test.free

Do you need a professional instrument to test and view your GPS position? Try it!!!

New improvement will be available soon.

IMPORTANT: go outdoors to detect the GPS satellites!

Be happy, you learned something new today, and that is a good thing.

I'd recommend you download the Here application from the Play Store, it will let you download the whole Thailand map to your phone. (Added: Free - 462Mb).

As I stated in another reply..

I worked in the Pacific Northwest forest for years and uses GPS when it was available.

The problem is that in a heavily forested area like this with a thick tree canopy overhead ( as most of this area is) You can not get a GPS signal!

You must find a pretty open area with a good part of the sky exposed to view to use the GPS and those areas can be hard to find.

Again, travel downhill until you find a river with a road( most rivers have roads following them in this day and age..even if it is just a logging road ) is usually the best method to be found.

[Chicog]

1) Since when do most phones have GPS?

• Funnily enough, since they started calling them "Smartphones"...

2) In heavily forested areas like this GPS does not work under the canopy of trees.

• That entirely depends how thick the canopy is. And looking at Google maps in great detail there are many areas with a view of the sky.

  Of course this is moot since it appears she may have done exactly what you suggest.

[Scott]

I hate to interrupt this little info session (I have actually learned quite a few things), but did they find the plane and did the others survive?

[Chicog]

No news yet. Back on topic.

[Johpa]

Many, if not most of us, have "smart phones" that do not have true GPS. Most areas of the North Cascades and the Okanogan do not receive mobile signals as the region is quite remote and, in the North Cascades, surrounded by high steep cliffs. The young woman did good, very good.

[Bwanatickey]

Well for all the Flight and Pilot experts on here, I would like to know why the plane crashed, and how did she survive the brace yourself for impact command from Pilot.

[Acharn]

I can't believe she didn't have a phone with GPS.

How can anyone get lost these days?

Be in a plane crash in a remote location and have a phone without a REAL GPS receiver or that requires cellular service to get a position fix?

Anyway, a position fix, without maps, doesn't guarantee that one can navigate to nearest habitation.

PS: My Sony Action Cams have REAL GPS receivers, but position cannot be read with the camera alone. It requires a computer to read the JPEGs or Video files to obtain the Lat/Lon of each shot. It's really aggravating. I guess they didn't want to be seen to compete with the GPS receiver market.

She wasn't lost. There was a trail that she followed and it led her to a road. As a former soldier I would guess that she would nave been lucky to walk as much as 15 miles in a day, depending on how good her shoes were and what her physical fitness level was. In the Western United States there are lots of areas more than 50 miles from a road. Apparently she was able to find some drinkable water on the way or her dehydration would have been more commented-worthy. I infer MaeJo has never been outside a city.

[matman]

Note to Global Moderators

How did you manage to let a 'Feel Good' thread of a young lady surviving a plane crash and finding her way out of the forrests.

degenerate into a childish playground argument between TV members as to the workings (or not) of GPS

[Stargeezr]

The catch words are the area was in Craggy forested mountains.

The mountains in this area do not all have cell towers that cover the whole area, hence no signal for

a smart phone or a plain dumb old fashioned cell phone that does not have much for

a GPS. Go to the USA or Canada and spend some time in the west at the mountains and you will see that for yourself!

As for the GPS getting a satellite signal, fine, but try walking for 2 days and see how far you may have gone from

your wreckage, or crash site.

I am glad that the girl survived, and it does not sound very assuring for her grand parents.

Basically none of us were there, where this girl was and being an armchair expert

is not getting any useful information out as well. I hope the searchers can find the crash site soon.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Stargrazer9889

[Tywais]

I hate to interrupt this little info session (I have actually learned quite a few things), but did they find the plane and did the others survive?

Appears the grandparents did not survive.

Autumn Veatch: US teenager survives plane crash then walks for days to safety

Authorities in Washington state say 16-year-old was picked up by motorist two days after light aircraft carrying three people went down in mountains

A US teenager survived a plane crash in the craggy, thickly forested mountains of north-central Washington state, then emerged from the wilderness after hiking “for a couple of days” and was picked up by a motorist who drove her to safety, authorities have said.

But Autumn Veatch reported that her two step-grandparents, who were also on board, died in the accident, Sheriff Frank Rogers of Okanogan County said.

More - Guardian

[Tywais]

SEATTLE -- A sheriff says a 16-year-old girl who survived a small-plane crash and then hiked to safety reported that her step-grandparents died in the accident.

Okanogan County Sheriff Frank Rogers said Tuesday that Autumn Veatch told him Leland and Sharon Bowman of Marion, Montana, died in Saturday's crash. Searchers planned to resume looking for the wreckage early Tuesday.

The girl told Rogers they were flying in the clouds until the sky suddenly opened up to a mountain and they crashed into the trees.

Veatch told authorities she stayed at the crash site for a day before hiking down. A motorist picked her up Monday and drove her 30 miles east to a general store, where employees called 911.

She had no life-threatening injuries but was dehydrated.

KING5

Plane crash 911 call: 'I was the only one that made it out'

Veatch was taken to a hospital in Brewster to be checked out. Her father, David Veatch, made the drive from Bellingham to Brewster to be reunited with his daughter. He said she was a little banged up, a little dehydrated, and exhausted after days without sleep hiking through the woods.

"She's just an amazing kid," said David Veatch. "She's very gifted. There's more to her than she knows. I keep trying to tell her that but she doesn't believe me, maybe now she'll understand what I see."

He said the two sometimes watched survivor shows together and both believed the tips Autumn picked up through those shows ended up helping her.

"She definitely picked up that you're supposed to follow a stream down to civilization," he said.

http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/2015/07/14/autumn-veatch-plane-crash-tuesday/30136827/

[Chicog]

Many, if not most of us, have "smart phones" that do not have true GPS. Most areas of the North Cascades and the Okanogan do not receive mobile signals as the region is quite remote and, in the North Cascades, surrounded by high steep cliffs. The young woman did good, very good.

Even if she did have a route, I've never said anything that detracts from the fact that walking for two days in that terrain is an amazing feat and a testament to her character.

[timendres]

There are many places in the West/Northwest where cell phones and GPS will not work. I did survey work back in the mid/late 90's in northern New Mexico/southern Colorado and in heavily forested areas getting GPS signal and keeping it was extremely difficult. Yes, I know technology upgrades since. Cell phones didn't even work, there were none back then, no towers. They work up there in spots now. No reason for phone companies to put a cell phone tower in the middle of a wilderness. A brave young lady and kudos to her for keeping cool and getting herself out.

This isn't the 90s, modern smartphone phone GPS works very well under almost all conditions.

In buildings and in heavy forest.

Doesn't need phone tower, just needs satellites in the sky.

Also saves plots of your position ready to upload to google when it does get wifi or phone signals.

Only teenage girl in the western world without the latest smartphone!

Yes, the GPS works fine. And could have been used to pin the location of the plane - possibly.

However, the lovely maps that you need to actually do anything with the GPS location provided by the GPS circuitry do require the internet, as very few phones store the map information on the phone itself. This is what GPS units like the Garmin do - they have all of the map data built-in, thus they do not require any connectivity while driving.

Turn off your WiFi, turn off your 3G, then fire up Google maps and see how far you get walking around Bangkok.

[loloal]

GPS or not I don't know many modern smartphones who have enough battery when you really need it !

[Scott]

Note to Global Moderators

How did you manage to let a 'Feel Good' thread of a young lady surviving a plane crash and finding her way out of the forrests.

degenerate into a childish playground argument between TV members as to the workings (or not) of GPS

We moderate what people write. We don't dictate what they can discuss. Please note this rule:

10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy. You will not block contact with moderators or administrators. Doing so will result in suspension.

[Shot]

That is also cougar country.

[The Deerhunter]

This is what T'ees me off most about TV Forums. People who do not know what they are talking about, JUST HAVE TO POST COMMENTS about helpful advice after the fact, or offer advice possibly decades out of date, or just to criticize the way people handled a certain situation, to make them (the poster) look clever and knowledgeable.

Then, when proven wrong by other (sometimes but not always, similar minded souls), they refuse to say "Sorry I was wrong." Instead they get involved in a 20 part see-saw just to save face and not have to admit they had no relevant comment to offer to start with. Nearly every second topic is a carbon copy of this mess.

[The Deerhunter]

That is also cougar country.

I am sure she would have been happy to meet anyone, even a sexy older woman. (My attempt to inject some humor into this Techo cat fight) Edited July 15, 2015 by The Deerhunter

[Chicog]

Well she didn't use her phone anyway.

With her step-grandparents dead or dying in the burning wreckage of their small plane, 16-year-old Autumn Veatch needed to somehow find her way off the remote, thickly forested Washington state mountainside where they crashed on Saturday afternoon.

Bruised by the impact, singed by the fire, fearing an explosion and knowing she couldn’t help the other victims, the girl did what she could: she headed down the steep slope, following a creek to a river. She spent a night on a sand bar, where she felt safer. She drank small amounts of the flowing water but worried she might get sick if she drank more.

She followed the river to a trail, and the trail to a highway. Two men driving by stopped and picked her up Monday afternoon, bringing her — about two full days after the crash — to the safety of a general store in Mazama, a tiny town in north-central Washington, near the east entrance of North Cascades national park.

More at: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/15/the-only-one-that-made-it-out-autumn-veatch-tells-plane-crash-survival-story

Added:

According to Rogers the Beechcraft A-35 was flying over north-central Washington on its way from Kalispell, Montana, to Lynden, Washington, when it entered a cloud bank. Then the clouds suddenly parted, and from her seat behind the cockpit Veatch could see the mountain and trees ahead. Her step-grandfather, Leland Bowman, of Marion, Montana, was piloting with his wife, Sharon, by his side. He tried to pull up — to no avail.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Chicog

[chilli42]

I can't believe she didn't have a phone with GPS.

How can anyone get lost these days?

You have to be within range of a cel tower for the gps maps to work. There is zero coverage in remote areas. You will notice that they could not even find the emergency beacon form the downed airplane. Guess there is an upside to living in a tiny and densely populated country like Thailand.

[northernphil]

' I can't believe she had no cell phone or GPS..............blah blah ' If I was on the plane and survived I would like to think I would of survived doing what she did. NOT climbing up mountains to see if I could get a signal , not taking selfies nor anything else . I have a nokia phone thats all , no GPS no batman cape. Yet here are posted all the see-saw She should of....she could of.......why didn't she have ........I gues some posters here would of sat down and cried for their mum if their device batteries expired. There ! I don't usual rant.

[Chicog]

I can't believe she didn't have a phone with GPS.

How can anyone get lost these days?

You have to be within range of a cel tower for the gps maps to work. There is zero coverage in remote areas. You will notice that they could not even find the emergency beacon form the downed airplane. Guess there is an upside to living in a tiny and densely populated country like Thailand.

Your misunderstanding is already covered in this thread, I would go back and read.

As for having no signal:

Autumn Veatch’s boyfriend, Newton Goss, said he and his mother had been supposed to pick her up from the airport on Saturday. He and Autumn had been texting back and forth when his final text to her failed to go through, he said.

Goss, 16, showed the texts he received from Veath during the flight, including one that read: “This is so bumpy and it’s making me feel yucky.”

[Bulldozer Dawn]

This is a better story:

http://www.oreillys.com.au/about-us/the-stinson-rescue

Bernard O'Reilly later wrote a book of his deed called Green Mountain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_O%27Reilly_%28author%29

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3582290-green-mountains-cullenbenbong

Great read.

When I was younger I once trekked into the crash site of the Stinson. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done. All old growth rainforest thereabouts and now national park. I hate to think how wild that country was back in 1937.

Back when I trekked in there was just a small bit of metal remaining of the plane's engine block. There is probably nothing there nowadays.

Prudent to reflect upon how nature, given time, erases all traces of humanity.

[laurenrebecca]

I can't believe she didn't have a phone with GPS.

How can anyone get lost these days?

I hiked many of the trails in that area near Diablo and Mazama when I was stationed there about 17 years ago. On the highway itself there is no cell coverage, the mountains are high and the valleys deep. Back then the nearest cell towers were in Marblemount and Omak.....30 miles east and 20 miles west. Those trails run from about 1500' up to 8000' and more. It is not a good area to be stuck in.

The only things going for that girl was the expansive trail network there, including the PCT (Pacific Crest Trail), and that there is still significant snow runoff so she had a good supply of water at least every mile or two.

Even with a GPS (which I did carry with me for this very reason), you're lucky to lock on to 1 bird in the sky...unless on a peak, then you get a decent picture if the phone is not GPSing to a signal tower. The only somewhat reliable signal was a sat phone - INMARSAT. Nobody has those...insanely expensive (at least then, no idea of price now).

She did the right thing...shelter in place, found nobody was coming and found a trail. Since she came out on HWY 20, she was most likely following the sun / horizon to hit the trail. Smart girl.

[TheKnave]

Is there something difficult to understand about the phrase "WITHOUT (A) MOBILE SIGNAL? Would you like me to break it down and explain each of the quoted words in depth?

Where did you get the idea that a Smartphone with GPS capability and offline maps needs a Mobile Signal?

What for, exactly?

You don't seem to understand what GPS even stands for.

I've been following this with some amusement.

It all went off-rails when you asserted that a full map of Thailand comes pre-installed. Name ONE phone that has such a map pre-installed, and I'll concede the rest. Then consider the likelihood that the girl in question had such a map installed: infinitesimal.

The rest is all angels dancing on the head of a pin.

I will say, however, that you are correct is staying that IF you have the map installed, as opposed to relying on Google Maps (the only pre-installed cellphone mapping app that I'm aware of), you would be able to navigate with it.

The rest is just argumentative bullshit, based on the false assumption that the whole map of Thailand comes pre-installed.

Try and keep up.

[TheKnave]

GPS or not I don't know many modern smartphones who have enough battery when you really need it !

This is an excellent point. Doubtful that any phone could provide GPS for more than a few hours on a full charge, offline Maps or not.

But Chicog will state that she probably had a lithium-ion booster pack, along with her downloaded Maps, for just such an occasion...

[Chicog]

I've been following this with some amusement.

It all went off-rails when you asserted that a full map of Thailand comes pre-installed. Name ONE phone that has such a map pre-installed, and I'll concede the rest. Then consider the likelihood that the girl in question had such a map installed: infinitesimal.

The rest is all angels dancing on the head of a pin.

I will say, however, that you are correct is staying that IF you have the map installed, as opposed to relying on Google Maps (the only pre-installed cellphone mapping app that I'm aware of), you would be able to navigate with it.

The rest is just argumentative bullshit, based on the false assumption that the whole map of Thailand comes pre-installed.

Try and keep up.

It went off the rails for you when you said GPS doesn't work without a cell signal.

Wrong.

Install Here you your phone and the first thing it does is to prompt you to install your country map. I even gave you a link. Most nav packages do (Sygic for example).

Wrong again.

So really, I'd be grateful you learned something new as well.

Oh, and you can select any part of Google Maps and store it for offline navigation.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Chicog

[TheKnave]

I've been following this with some amusement.

It all went off-rails when you asserted that a full map of Thailand comes pre-installed. Name ONE phone that has such a map pre-installed, and I'll concede the rest. Then consider the likelihood that the girl in question had such a map installed: infinitesimal.

The rest is all angels dancing on the head of a pin.

I will say, however, that you are correct is staying that IF you have the map installed, as opposed to relying on Google Maps (the only pre-installed cellphone mapping app that I'm aware of), you would be able to navigate with it.

The rest is just argumentative bullshit, based on the false assumption that the whole map of Thailand comes pre-installed.

Try and keep up.

It went off the rails for you when you said GPS doesn't work without a cell signal.

Wrong.

Install Here you your phone and the first thing it does is to prompt you to install your country map. I even gave you a link. Most nav packages do (Sygic for example).

Wrong again.

So really, I'd be grateful you learned something new as well.

Oh, and you can select any part of Google Maps and store it for offline navigation.

Yes, remind us about how big an area of Google maps can be stored offline. And in think you better clean your reading glasses, because I never said GPS wouldn't work without mobile signal. Perhaps the other guy you were arguing with? I said that you can't download the maps for the pre-installed app without mobile signal.

I said, and continue to say that no pre-installed map has offline Maps by default. If you search the App Store, yes, you can find Maps of Thailand, and other countries. Hardly the same thing.

While you are busy squirming and digging yourself a deeper hole, why not address the battery life issue? That's right, you can't...

Fish in a barrel, lol.

[Chicog]

Yes, remind us about how big an area of Google maps can be stored offline. And in think you better clean your reading glasses, because I never said GPS wouldn't work without mobile signal. Perhaps the other guy you were arguing with? I said that you can't download the maps for the pre-installed app without mobile signal.

I said, and continue to say that no pre-installed map has offline Maps by default. If you search the App Store, yes, you can find Maps of Thailand, and other countries. Hardly the same thing.

While you are busy squirming and digging yourself a deeper hole, why not address the battery life issue? That's right, you can't...

Fish in a barrel, lol.

"No pre-installed map has offline Maps by default"

?

Er....

Yeah, I think it is time to stop this discussion, as simple as it would be to explain it to you, unfortunately I can't understand it for you.