Bangkok suspends buying submarines from China over US concern: expert

[realenglish1]

This is a way to have the Thai Navy save face after screaming then needed the subs

Now the reality is it will never happen and they have lost face Need to blame someone else why they are

not getting them rather then admit is is public pressure that dictates they are not getting them

Anyways its a real waist of money

[ameadi]

Let's Thais decide about their future

[oneday]

Total BS. Why in hell would the US care if Thailand bought 3 messily subs from China.

This is China giving Thailand a graceful way out to such them in even closer.

Who's going to believe anything China has to say anyway?

[sammygood]

ah thai logic, you can't beat it

so nothing to do that thailand has no business to gain with buying any subs, from whatever reason ?

why 3 subs ? why not 5 or 10 or just 1 ?

or any for that matter

[MZurf]

Lets see, economy tanking, tourism down, drought warnings, baht dropping. farmers told to stop irrigating fields so the poor huddled masses in Bangkok can drink. Yet the Government decides to buy submarines for reasons no one can really figure out. Granted they would make a good task force with the aircraft carrier Thailand owns but ..... And people are justifiably upset

Nothing to do but cancel the deal and .... drumroll please ....... try and blame the stop order on ....The Amerikans

Say what you will you have to be impressed at the lengths The Nation will go to deflect and spin a pooch screw .... Go Team!

I am impressed at the lengths you go to paint such a tragic picture of Thailand burning, while you strum your fiddle. You sound simply ecstatic at the thought of it.

The irony is they purport to want the majority to have a voice and decide to speak for them instead of on behalf of them and to show how much they truly detest that majority they want to see the country fail so they can say "I told you say".

They don't want to offer input or constructive criticism. They don't want to join panels or TV shows. They don't want to debate policy. They have wonderful excuses to dodge moving the country forward. They think moving the country forward involves breaking the law, starting rumours, spreading lies, trying to divide the nation and inciting unrest which does nothing for the majority except hurt them. All the while they purporting to respect that majority. The very same majority they hope suffers under the Junta simply to say "I told you so".

They use this majority as a tool that is driven by hate instead of respect.

I look forward to the business case from the Navy regarding these submarines though as does the majority no doubt. The majority the Junta listened to when they voiced their disapproval of this purchase.

Actually, the present regime that you are the head cheerleader for has severely curtailed what can and cannot be debated, but that is OK because, because, because.....Thaksin!!

[hawker9000]

Sounds more likely a usable excuse to save bit of face on what was an ill thought out idea by uneducated military personnel. They keep whining on about the AIP system on the china subs but that standard tech & typically copied by chinese from western subs, also expecting a sub to be in service for 30 years kind of shows a lack of technical grasp :-/ they need learn think first & speak second.

The US may have pointed out that, if tensions escalate beyond a certain point, Thailand will have to publicly choose sides and if it chooses the US, China will no longer support the maintenance of the submarines.

This statement may also be a face-saving way to explain why the PM turned down the Navy's request.

For those who argue that Thailand should have submarines because Thailand's neighbors have submarines, how many of Thailand's neighbors have an aircraft carrier? Far fewer countries in the world have an aircraft carrier than have submarines. The Navy should be lobbying to get some reconnaissance planes to put on its aircraft carrier to monitor for pirates, people smugglers, and foreign fishing trawlers operating illegally in Thai waters.

They do operate helos from it. (Whether they could operate anything else from it is moot since all their Harriers are inoperable.) It's a gold-plated disaster-relief platform to be sure, but that's pretty much how the Thais use it. And if they can operate helos from it, they could so some reconnaissance from it, but it would be pretty high-priced and limited range reconnaissance. I just don't think Thailand has that much of an over-the-horizon/blue water naval operating requirement, making subs as well as carriers kind of expensive toys.

[godden]

i think we all know what being a submariner is being like, the wife and i are on silent running at the moment.

[stoli]

I don't think they were ever serious about buying those subs, the whole thing was a red herring.

Designed to divert certain TVF posters away from other things that actually were going to happen.

What an imagination. The Thai government making decisions based on what TVF posters think? Nobody's ego can be that big......Thanks. I needed a big laugh today.

[English 1]

This story could well have truth in it as it makes sense NOT to get close to China.

Anyway, as any right minded person knows the Submarine idea was ridiculous!

As they say ' The difference between men and boys is the size of their toys!'

[chingmai331]

Quite possible that the Amers pointed out that on Chinese military equipment all computers on board come 'pre-hacked' so as to inform the rascals in Beijing, without delay.

[arrowsdawdle]

Uncle Sam needn't worry about Thais doing business with China. It has nothing to do with military and the Thais chose China over Germany because Germans are too closely scrutinized for kickbacks.

[Oziex1]

I don't think they were ever serious about buying those subs, the whole thing was a red herring.

Designed to divert certain TVF posters away from other things that actually were going to happen.

What other things?

[Emster23]

How about a few thumbs up for the USA for once? I assume they passed on view due to their own interests (which is what governments everywhere do) but at least able to stop or at least slow down this total waste of resources in Thailand. Did not seem anything could slow down this fixation once the military got a whiff of these shiny useless arms candies.

[Srikcir]

"Thailand is not in urgent need of a submarine," Lan said."

Even China admits Thailand can't justify the sub purchases.

[Srikcir]

The idea that the US is concerned over a Chinese hegemony over Thailand is fantasy any more than the US is concerned over a partnership between China and Russia.

There is a fundamental ideological difference between China and Thailand - Communism vs. constitutional Buddhist monarchy

I doubt the Chinese leadership really has a shred of respect towards any Thai government, whether elected or military dominated. Respect is not a requirement for trade.

But as a means to an end for geopolitical dominance in Asia to secure its own national security, China will tolerate Thai society (at extreme arm's length) unless it has an opportunity to rehabilitate Thai society effortlessly into a communist society. Historically such a conversion has never been peaceful.

[BarnicaleBob]

I am surprised that none of you paid attention to the first paragraph of the story. It has never been shown anywhere that the U.S. told Thailand not to purchase the Chinese subs. It was just speculation by a Chinese newspaper, read it again here:

(The Global Times online quoted Li Haidong, a professor at China Foreign Affairs University, as saying it was clear that the US did not want to see closer cooperation between China and Thailand, especially in terms of military ties and defence.)

This is nothing more than a rumor, no facts were given.

I would like to point out that the U.S. losses nothing if the Thais buy subs from the Chinese as no company in the U.S. makes comparable subs for export, so no sales were lost.

Next, if anything I would think the U.S. Navy would be thrilled if the Thais purchased the new Chinese subs, it might give them a chance to negotiate with the Thai Navy an inspection of the Chinese made subs, it could be a great intelligence break for the U.S.

This whole story is based on something a Chinese university professor said so as to create tension between the U.S. and China is nothing more than a political scam of disinformation in hopes of getting the sale of the subs back on line.

[sirwilly]

May be just as good . Thailand backed the wrong side in WW2.

[kiwikeith]

Is it possible that through the "back channels", which are never known to the public, that the U.S. told Thailand: "Buy the Chinese subs and we will screw you every possible."

Correct! however I thought they could have been put to good use when Bangkok sinks.

[impulse]

I just wonder how much China would charge any future adversary of Thailand's for the remote control codes to operate the self destruct feature they build into the submarines.

[impulse]

Can you imagine a WalMart or 3 here in Land of Scams?

I've been to several WalMarts in China. What a disappointment.

They're nothing like the WalMarts back home. In fact, other than the sign outside, it's hard to distinguish them from any other big store in China. Just like the big stores in China with Korean names and Japanese names. They even smell the same.

I'm pretty sure a WalMart in Thailand wouldn't be much different than a Big C or TESCO. And the percentage of goods from the USA would be minuscule.

Edited July 18, 2015 by impulse

[klauskunkel]

I don't think they were ever serious about buying those subs, the whole thing was a red herring.

Designed to divert certain TVF posters away from other things that actually were going to happen.

What an imagination. The Thai government making decisions based on what TVF posters think? Nobody's ego can be that big......Thanks. I needed a big laugh today.

...actually, that would explain some of the more erratic decision changes and most "misunderstanding statements" of the government

[Nice Boyd]

May be just as good . Thailand backed the wrong side in WW2.

I don't think they really had a Choice, or be Slaughtered

[northernphil]

I don't think they were ever serious about buying those subs, the whole thing was a red herring.

Designed to divert certain TVF posters away from other things that actually were going to happen.

A Chinese sub is a red herring . I like that.

[Baerboxer]

General Prawit according to news reports previously agreed in principle with the purchase.

Instead of passing the buck back to the Admirals, why does he, as Deputy PM and Defence Minister explain the reasoning behind the purchase to the Thai public. I presume given his approval that he has studied the issue........

Come on Prawit, stand up and front up as to why you agree with it?

CEO's and senior directors often give their agreement in principle subject to those making the request subsequently producing detailed supportive rationale.

They asked, he said, o k in principle, go ahead and produce your draft rationale; then sorry, it's not good enough. Letting subordinates, even very senior ones do this is a learning tactic I've seen used by the top people many times.

Will you equally be calling for Yingluck to stand up and front up as to why she agreed with and still vigorously defends her brother's rice subsidy scheme, including full financial disclosure?

The difference seems to be the Junta stops something if it's not viable. Thaksin's government didn't but hid the facts instead.

[Baerboxer]

May be just as good . Thailand backed the wrong side in WW2.

I don't think they really had a Choice, or be Slaughtered

Burma and Malaysia had British help and got walloped. France was already under German rule. The Dutch were screwed in the East Indies.

Thailand, with no colonial backers, having witnessed the colonial powers get whopped by the Japs - really must have been a bit of a no-brainer. Although many courageous Thais fought a guerrilla war against the Imperial army; and many died as forced laborers. But, at least the Japs didn't steal everything they could like they did elsewhere and ship it off to Japan.

Wonder where all that treasure went after Japan surrendered ?

[movsrus]

if China partners with Russia and a couple of friends and don't use the dollar anymore for oil buys, the economy of the US is in pieces

LOL. All the US would have to do and should do is put a 30% import duty on anything coming in from China. Right now the US charges zero - zip - nada import duties on products made in China.

The duty would cause manufacturing to rush back to the US because shipping from China is very expensive already, and wages are getting not so cheap in China.

The US has to ship raw cotton to China before it can be made into clothes and the ship the clothes back, for instance because China can't grow the cotton. This is too much slippage to survive an import duty.

Here is a very valid article from Forbes:

China Is 175.6% Dependent on the U.S.

LINK

Ever been into a Wal-Mart in the US? Hard to find anything there not made in China or Bangladesh. If prices went up by 30% in Wal-Mart the hordes of its shoppers would go on a rampage and there would be general unrest in the States. We are coming into an election year and no politician is going to do something like that which would raise the hackles of the electorate.

[smutcakes]

General Prawit according to news reports previously agreed in principle with the purchase.

Instead of passing the buck back to the Admirals, why does he, as Deputy PM and Defence Minister explain the reasoning behind the purchase to the Thai public. I presume given his approval that he has studied the issue........

Come on Prawit, stand up and front up as to why you agree with it?

CEO's and senior directors often give their agreement in principle subject to those making the request subsequently producing detailed supportive rationale.

They asked, he said, o k in principle, go ahead and produce your draft rationale; then sorry, it's not good enough. Letting subordinates, even very senior ones do this is a learning tactic I've seen used by the top people many times.

Will you equally be calling for Yingluck to stand up and front up as to why she agreed with and still vigorously defends her brother's rice subsidy scheme, including full financial disclosure?

The difference seems to be the Junta stops something if it's not viable. Thaksin's government didn't but hid the facts instead.

Again according to reports it was muted to be ready to propose to parliament for approval, not some far out scheme in the future for initial studies, the studies have been done and was ready to be put to the NCPO for approval. I would of presumed if they were ready to do that, then the Defence Minister agreeing to it, is far more than an initial agreement in principle.

You are seriously suggesting Prawit is tutoring using this 'tactic'? You are joking!!!!!

In addition, you really believe it was knocked back because the Junta thought it was not viable? despite it being agreed by the defence minister? No, they knocked it back out of self preservation, not because of any sudden concern morals. (if you mean by non viable you mean that it would attract to much unwanted criticism then yes i agree), not because of it being not viable for any proper reason.

[neeray]

What the "blank" would Thailand need subs for anyway? The other 999 needs are much more important.

[NeverSure]

May be just as good . Thailand backed the wrong side in WW2.

To be fair, Thailand didn't have a choice. The British already had their hands full, and America was very hesitant to enter WWII. It took the Japanese bombing of US military assets and people in general in Pearl Harbor in Hawaii for the US get into a rage. Japan woke a sleeping giant, as it is reported that the Emperor of Japan later said.

The US did come in and help in SE Asia and in Australia later.

One thing of note is that the leader of Thailand, another military guy was very enamored with Hitler's style much to the consternation of some of the other officials. The guy liked the fascism. Perhaps that's why a fascination with Nazism and Hitler linger in Thailand? ?? Dunno.

The Japanese attacked Thailand and about all the Thais could do was cut a deal because they had no help they could count on from the Western Allies. Once the US dropped the atomic bombs on Japan, it was pretty much a done deal except for mopping up.

Cheers.

[RKASA]

are you sure they weren't talking about opening 3 new Subways and some darlings misunderstood? I hear the Good General is partial to a veggie sandwich he being a good Buddhist and all

Subways? I hope so we need one in Phitsanulok. Don't tease.