How YOU learned to speak Thai Language?

[LarryBird]

Ya, I'm sure half the bozos on here who "speak thai" have a vocabulary consisting of:

Dting dtong

tii rak

nit noi

and of course sa was dii krup...

Jack talk thai, jack talk thai real good.

[evadgib]

While you're Stephen Fry, right?

[timmyp]

Nobody just "picked up" Thai. They studied (with a book, on the internet, or at a school, etc.), and tried to speak it. People who claim they just picked it up are either lying to look clever or their Thai is atrocious (and can only impress people who know zero).

An English guy I know, speaks Thai very well, I have watch and listened to him talking on the phone to a Thai, he just picked it up by himself, no books or classes.

Are you really in a position to judge his Thai competency, possum?

I did a visa run to Vientiane a couple of years ago, and there was a guy who claimed that he had just "picked up" the ability to speak Thai. He even called up some Lao girls that he connected with via a dating app. He spoke on the phone with them in front of our group, using the few words he knew. Probably the only thing that made sense was "Are you bored? Let's meet!" Some others on the trip who spoke zero Thai were impressed. I'm not knocking his efforts, and it's great that he met girls that really don't care how bad a farang's Thai is, I only want to point out that it's a far cry from actually speaking a language.

I've lived in Japan for 15 years, and I have been coming to Thailand since 1990 (when I first studied Thai). I have been meeting people for years who claim to have just picked up Thai and Japanese. Every time, they were either just impressing other foreigners who knew nothing with a barely functional vocabulary of a couple dozen words (and I'm sure they wrote those words down to learn them), or they were people who had actually studied quite hard, and just like to say that they "picked it up at the bar" because it made them sound like someone who wasn't overly bookish. It's not really cool to say, "I studied really hard," but it's pretty cool to say, "Nah, I just picked it up, I guess."

So you may have met an incredibly rare exception, but extensive experience suggests to me that either you don't know how unintelligible your English friend's Thai really is, or he actually hit the books pretty hard, and just isn't admitting to it.

Edited July 21, 2015 by timmyp

[carter1882]

Please, please,learn to read. It is so important in figuring out how the language works, building vocabulary at your own pace and in adding to the pleasure of living in Thailand. Writing is also useful but much less so than reading. In the modern world writing text messages is a great way to go. Even though I was a Thai teacher for twenty years, I only learnt to type quickly in later years using the keyboard on my iPad that symplifies matters with a modified keyboard. Please disregard the absurd comment about learning to read and write being counter-productive. Whilst some people do learn good communicative Thai without reading or writing, why limit your potential when it really is not difficult to learn, despite what some say.

I have seen over the years that many people who do not start to learn straight away, as is the case of the OP, never learn. For me any place I ever go I would want to communicate and read stuff straight away. So I think for the OP and others like him you need to be sure that you are motivated and prepared to put in the time and be prepared to be, at best, laughed along with and even laughed at. But with each plateau of learning that you achieve comes a new hill to climb but as you progress the rewards are enormous. I got a grade C in my French O-level at school and a D for my German. In Thai I was fluent in the basics within a year and a very good speaker within three. I ended up as the Head of the Thai Department at a major international school and though now retired, I owe everything to the early days in the 80s of learning Thai speaking, reading and writing along with all the very many kind Thai people who helped me on the way. Khwaam payayaam yuu thii nay khwaam samret yuu thii nan.

[LarryBird]

Thanks timmyp, you said why i don't have the eloquence or energy to express.

[LawrenceN]

learn how to read, helps you a lot. private lessons at a school about 4 times a week and listen to Thai people a lot

I already "liked" this, so I agree with each point. This is good advice. Since you asked, I'm one of the fortunate few who learned while young, a big advantage. I was a US Peace Corps Volunteer Agriculture teacher when I was 22 years old, fresh out of university. That was 38 years ago. I was expected to use Thai in the classroom, not English. The first year was hell (after they released us from training). We had ten weeks of training before starting our jobs. We learned to read right from the start. I had a private tutor for a whole year.

I saw early on that the Roman/European/English alphabet is inadequate for the job of representing the Thai language. It's a crutch that doesn't work. The consonants are bad enough, but there's no way you can represent Thai vowels accurately with the Western alphabet. You could invent your own phonetics, but you would have to apply your system consistently, and you would be the only person in the world who can read it. I have seen many, many people who pronounce Thai quite badly because they see the letters in front of them as they learned them as an English-speaking child, though they think they have come up with their own system for spelling Thai phonetically. If you can read Thai and have a good teacher, you will be able to speak with proper tones and use long and short vowels.

Another drawback to clinging to the Western alphabet is that, if you are able to invent your own phonetic system and apply it consistently, you have done more work than simply memorizing the Thai alphabet and learning the genuine correct pronunciation. What's the big deal? You can memorize 44 letters that represent sounds in a couple of weeks. By the way, so many people are astounded that there are 44 Thai consonants, conveniently forgetting that English has 52 letters (not 26). Thai has no lower case.

The best tip I can give you (now that I have convinced you to learn to read Thai) is to force yourself to spell ALL Thai words with the Thai alphabet. I disciplined myself to stop immediately if I mentally saw a Thai word in Western script. I came to think of it as a "mental slap." It was like you might say when training a dog, "Bad dog!" I abruptly and forcefully told myself that it was incorrect, a dead end detrimental to my learning.

Finally, learn to read so that you don't deprive yourself of the opportunity to gain new vocabulary which is all around you every day. Take photos of signs, especially if you recognize a word or two. Use your dictionary or online app to look up the meaning of each word. I remember walking or riding in a vehicle and saying to myself, "That's the third time this week I have seen that word in public. I'll look it up when I get home." Of course, in 1977 we weren't doing that online or with a smartphone. I had to write the word down and look it up in my dictionary when I got home.

[NoshowJones]

Nobody just "picked up" Thai. They studied (with a book, on the internet, or at a school, etc.), and tried to speak it. People who claim they just picked it up are either lying to look clever or their Thai is atrocious (and can only impress people who know zero).

An English guy I know, speaks Thai very well, I have watch and listened to him talking on the phone to a Thai, he just picked it up by himself, no books or classes.

Are you really in a position to judge his Thai competency, possum?

I did a visa run to Vientiane a couple of years ago, and there was a guy who claimed that he had just "picked up" the ability to speak Thai. He even called up some Lao girls that he connected with via a dating app. He spoke on the phone with them in front of our group, using the few words he knew. Probably the only thing that made sense was "Are you bored? Let's meet!" Some others on the trip who spoke zero Thai were impressed. I'm not knocking his efforts, and it's great that he met girls that really don't care how bad a farang's Thai is, I only want to point out that it's a far cry from actually speaking a language.

I've lived in Japan for 15 years, and I have been coming to Thailand since 1990 (when I first studied Thai). I have been meeting people for years who claim to have just picked up Thai and Japanese. Every time, they were either just impressing other foreigners who knew nothing with a barely functional vocabulary of a couple dozen words (and I'm sure they wrote those words down to learn them), or they were people who had actually studied quite hard, and just like to say that they "picked it up at the bar" because it made them sound like someone who wasn't overly bookish. It's not really cool to say, "I studied really hard," but it's pretty cool to say, "Nah, I just picked it up, I guess."

So you may have met an incredibly rare exception, but extensive experience suggests to me that either you don't know how unintelligible your English friend's Thai really is, or he actually hit the books pretty hard, and just isn't admitting to it.

Yes Timmy, a very good position, he is the owner of Siam Motor World in Bang Na, I have phoned him on several occasions when I was with a Thai, so he could give instructions

regarding my car which I bought from him, he is very fluent in Thai, I have also heard him giving instructions to his workers in Thai.

To be fluent in Thai, IMO, if you can hold a conversation on the phone with a Thai you do not know, then I would say that you are fluent in Thai.

Edited July 21, 2015 by possum1931

[Rockhopper]

I have been studying Thai for 3 1/2 years and just turned 70 years old. I can read and write Thai but I don't know what it means. Why? No short term memory!

[sikishrory]

I was 3 years working over there. 2 of those years were working with Burmese so kind of lost a year. Of course I made an effort to learn and I really don't understand how people can not make an effort. Although I guess depends a lot on the enviroment and people around you.

If your 68 I don't see why you can't start learning.

My tip would be learn to read because then you can teach yourself to an extent. Also any negativity cut it out of your life and walk away from it. If some Thai says "I don't like farang can talk Thai" or something then remove them from your life. Try to have at least a couple of Thai mentors to help you along.

[whaleboneman]

How YOU learned to speak Thai Language?

Start with good English mate.

I won't correct you mate.

[Kondiao]

I was over 60 when I went to Thailand and I found learning the language more difficult than I anticipated. Even though I had studied other langauges and have a degree in anthropology. Now, at 67, in the U.S.A. I am finding it more difficult to retain my grasp on Thai, even with all the free videos avaialable now on youtube.

My advice to you is to work at learning Thai diligently and consistently. It is work, surely, and you will have to work at it like it is something you want - not casually, like a hobby. All avenues of learning are useful, of course, but thing I experienced - and you may also - is that there are some teachers that are less helpful than others and some students that are not into the course of study and who disrupt the flow of the class. So it is best to keep an open mind and try the various places and be ready to quit and move on to a better place that suits you. AUA, YMCA classes, free classes at the library, private lessons ll help, but be open to finding a situation that works well for you.

Also, IMO, it is necessary to learn the Romanized transliteration - even though there are different systems of transliterating - because you will have to read road signs and bus destinations and everything in this system. It will be a long time before you can effectively read the real Thai writing system.

Also, the practice of learning a new skill causes the brain to develope new pathways among the neurons, while some brain cells are inevitably deteriorating. It is similar to doing exercise to offset the physical decline of the body. But you will have a big poster with the illustrated Thai alphabet hanging on your wall, instead of a chin-up bar over the doorway, pages out of an illustrated text with names of pieces of furniture, clouds, mountains, dirt.... taped to the mirror, postum notes written by you and by Thai friends, stuck onto the gao ii and the pom and the pencil and the toilet.... all to remind you in a fun way about the mission you are on to get control of communicating in this language.

Needless to say you will meet new people, some cool guys and some drips, all of whom will contribute to your quest mastery for of the langauge. Some merchants and taxi drivers and kids will be glad to correct your pronounciation and others will be impatient and that is all all right. You deal with it. SOme videos I find on youtube are fascinating and others I don't like just because of the music playing in the background.

Whereas you may like the background music and someone may come in and ask why it is you like Isaan dancing music and you will start a conversation and she will explain to you a lot of things that you never imagined - all part of the experience. Someone may slap your hand with a ruler because you write "Poh pong" to look like "Goh gai," and you have to deal with farangs that pronounce Thai words so stupidly and show contempt for local people for not understanding them - so many new experinces in store.

Learn patience along the way. Like meditation, keep at it.

Choke dii krap.

[kandi]

Well, what can I say... Better get used to it, this certainly won't be the last time. As others already said, adding charges wherever they can is common practise in private Thai hospitals. And it doesn't only happen to foreigners, Thais regularly end up in deep debt because they have to pay their gigantic hospital bills. The Bangkok Post had a very interesting article a few weeks back in Spectrum, but unfortunately I'm not allowed to link it here.

Regarding your other question: Every patient in a Thai hospital has the right to refuse treatment (including consultation). You're free to go whenever you feel like it. However, if you don't have some medical knowledge yourself, it's difficult to tell if the doctor is prescribing you a treatment for a reason or simply to increase the hospital's profits. With serious issues, better be safe than sorry.

What worries me even more than the 45 seconds of consultation is the antibiotics. Thai hospitals and pharmacies give out antibiotics as if they were candy, even for viruses where no antibiotic in the world has any effect at all. The only thing it does in these cases is that it makes bacteria becoming resistent against antibiotics. Read this:

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs194/en/

Have you posted to the wrong thread?

Yeah, I just realized. Can't delete it anymore. Thanks for pointing it out anyway.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Go to school and study properly. I cannot stress that enough.

Everybody who speaks Thai at any decent level will tell you the same thing.

I promise that 3 months at a proper Thai language school with a half-a$sed effort will get you to a higher level than people who learned to speak with bargirls and claim to be proficient with their 30-word vocabulary.

Those really aren't the only two choices. (School vs bargirls)

So therefore I disagree. It's not like schools teach you anything you can't find from other sources. (Books, etc.). Then you supplement that with as much real life practise as possible, ideally from a wide range of people of all ages/classes.

Which may also include bargirls.

(Most bargirls in Thailand are Thai, and they speak the language perfectly well. Especially in Chiang Mai where there is less Lao creeping in. (Many are from the North-East but as it's a more mixed environment in terms of linguistics, there will be more central Thai spoken in Chiang Mai bars compared to places like Pattaya.)

That said, it does help to also find a person with an ability to explain things; because not all native speakers make good teachers, even when they speak accurately. Similar to the way a German person instinctively knows which case to use for an article, but may not be able to explain the rules very well to non-native speakers. Similarly, ask a random Thai to name the tone for a particular word, and he/she won't know right away. (They'd go into reverse trying to name the tone and may actually get it wrong even for a really common word. They instinctively 'know' as a native speaker, without the specific need of having the grammar rules formalized in their mind.)

But anyway, books or online sources go a long way to get grammar straight. Then the only thing that's left is build vocabulary and practise pronunciation.

You are very correct about the tones. If you are like me and hearing not great they are hard to learn because you don't hear them that good to begin with. I am under the understanding that only 20% of the words use different tones and some of them can use all 5 tones.

It has been my experience limited as it is that most Thais can not understand what you are saying some times even though it should be obvious in the context you are using it.

Do most Thai words not only have one syllable?

Most of the common ones, yes. Which is is also why I didn't really get Northernjohn's comment about 20% of words 'using different tones'. I think he means that 20% of words have the same consonant/vowel sounds, but different tone (making it a different word.) Whatever the percentage is of those words (no reason to doubt 20%), they would be by FAR the most common words in colloquial spoken Thai.

Using tones you have a higher information density for a short one-syllable sound. So it makes sense that actually most one-syllable Thai words have consonant-vowel sounds that are re-used in different words with a different tone.

And then for common multi-syllable words, it still helps to get the tone right. By definition, every Thai word or syllable as a tone associated with it. Although of course with multi-syllable words you're more likely to be understood even if you get the tone wrong. As opposed to single-syllable words, where a different tone can even reverse the meaning, such as in the words for 'near' and 'far'. For those words you better get the tone right, or add more context just in case.

And finally, it's not only tones that can cause you trouble. In English for example you don't really have a semantic difference between aspirated ('hard' / 'soft') consonants for K P and T. In Thai you do, further increasing information density: the words for 'spicy' and 'duck' share the same tone, vowel and final consonant, yet different first consonant (aspirated/non aspirated). And doing that wrong is just as big of a problem as getting the tone wrong.

Edited July 21, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[LawrenceN]

Do most Thai words not only have one syllable?

Most of the common ones, yes. Which is is also why I didn't really get Northernjohn's comment about 20% of words 'using different tones'. I think he means that 20% of words have the same consonant/vowel sounds, but different tone (making it a different word.) Whatever the percentage is of those words (no reason to doubt 20%), they would be by FAR the most common words in colloquial spoken Thai.

Using tones you have a higher information density for a short one-syllable sound. So it makes sense that actually most one-syllable Thai words have consonant-vowel sounds that are re-used in different words with a different tone.

And then for common multi-syllable words, it still helps to get the tone right. By definition, every Thai word or syllable as a tone associated with it. Although of course with multi-syllable words you're more likely to be understood even if you get the tone wrong. As opposed to single-syllable words, where a different tone can even reverse the meaning, such as in the words for 'near' and 'far'. For those words you better get the tone right, or add more context just in case.

And finally, it's not only tones that can cause you trouble. In English for example you don't really have a semantic difference between aspirated ('hard' / 'soft') consonants for K P and T. In Thai you do, further increasing information density: the words for 'spicy' and 'duck' share the same tone, vowel and final consonant, yet different first consonant (aspirated/non aspirated). And doing that wrong is just as big of a problem as getting the tone wrong.

Spot on, Winnie. Pretty smart for a buffalo.

One thing you left out is vowel duration, long and short versions of each vowel sound. Tones get all the attention, but vowel duration can be equally vexing. Taking your example of the word "far," that's a short I (ai, eye, aye) sound. If you stretch it out, giving the I sound its full value, you have a new word, though both are the same (mid) tone. "Glai" means far. "Glaai" means transform.

[Farang99]

My Thai girlfriend (now wife) spoke little or no English and I was the same with Thai. We used to sit down with two dictionaries - Thai-English and English-Thai and make a conversation that way.

I was also helped to learn to read Thai by a 25 year American resident who used to run classes teaching Thai to farangs before he was pressured to stop by various organisations in Patong who preferred their customers not to understand what the girls were saying, so he still had all his teaching materials and gave me copies..

I still cannot WRITE Thai, but read well enough, though need a dictionary for the more unusual words.

[Farang99]

Do most Thai words not only have one syllable?

Most of the common ones, yes. Which is is also why I didn't really get Northernjohn's comment about 20% of words 'using different tones'. I think he means that 20% of words have the same consonant/vowel sounds, but different tone (making it a different word.) Whatever the percentage is of those words (no reason to doubt 20%), they would be by FAR the most common words in colloquial spoken Thai.

Using tones you have a higher information density for a short one-syllable sound. So it makes sense that actually most one-syllable Thai words have consonant-vowel sounds that are re-used in different words with a different tone.

And then for common multi-syllable words, it still helps to get the tone right. By definition, every Thai word or syllable as a tone associated with it. Although of course with multi-syllable words you're more likely to be understood even if you get the tone wrong. As opposed to single-syllable words, where a different tone can even reverse the meaning, such as in the words for 'near' and 'far'. For those words you better get the tone right, or add more context just in case.

And finally, it's not only tones that can cause you trouble. In English for example you don't really have a semantic difference between aspirated ('hard' / 'soft') consonants for K P and T. In Thai you do, further increasing information density: the words for 'spicy' and 'duck' share the same tone, vowel and final consonant, yet different first consonant (aspirated/non aspirated). And doing that wrong is just as big of a problem as getting the tone wrong.

Spot on, Winnie. Pretty smart for a buffalo.

One thing you left out is vowel duration, long and short versions of each vowel sound. Tones get all the attention, but vowel duration can be equally vexing. Taking your example of the word "far," that's a short I (ai, eye, aye) sound. If you stretch it out, giving the I sound its full value, you have a new word, though both are the same (mid) tone. "Glai" means far. "Glaai" means transform.

It's not just vowel duration. To take the example you gave "glai" (short vowel) can mean near or far, depending on the tone, and it's a right bugger to distinguish them!

[smotherb]

Going to school is the best way to learn; however, so many simply do not like the regimen or the cost.

If going to school is a problem, try learning from a Thai, or even a Thai-speaking farang, friend. Learning Thai should be easier if you have a Thai with whom you live or at least spend a lot of time and who is willing to teach you--most seem to be.

Learn basic words for nouns, pronouns, verbs, greetings, time, numbers, colors, foods, directions. So at least you can say hello, how are you, what time is it, order a beer and some food, etc., in Thai.

If you can do that, you will be encouraged and going to school will be easy.

[JimHuaHin]

I am older than you. Thai is a difficult language but if you want to learn it is very possible. I found a wonderful school that is not expensive. The teachers are awesome and the classes are fun. Easy Study Thai, 3rd floor, Pantip Plaza. Each class runs for a month and you meet some very interesting students as well. I first started with the speaking only classes so I could learn the rhythm of the language plus some vocabulary and basic grammar. After several months I started the two month reading and writing course. At that point I had some familiarity with the language - understood sounds and tones and basic vocabulary. You have a choice with the textbooks to learn speaking using only Thai script or phonetics or both. I chose phonetics as I felt that everything all at once would be too much for me to remember. Am glad I did it that way. If I was younger I would have started with Thai script only but now I would have been overwhelmed and discouraged, simply because the brain is slower. I watched students who began school in the reading/writing class (aged 40-50+), who had no Thai, and it was more difficult for them. Since it takes a little longer to learn and retain as we age, I would suggest learning to speak a little first. I asked several students who started with just reading and they said they wished they would have taken a few classes in speaking first. Switch over to learning to read and write as soon as you're comfortable as it will help you with your pronunciation immensely. I am very happy with the school and the teachers. Three days a week for two hours each. That way you have time on your own to study and practice. They also give private lessons which are very reasonably priced. I went to several schools in Chiang Mai and this is the best for me by far. Don't be afraid to get out with the locals and say just a few words. Most Thai are very receptive and will try to help.

Paiboon has some really good apps if you have an IPod of IPhone. I bought an inexpensive used IPod just for my language learning and apps. Their dictionary is the best even though it is a little expensive. Well worth the investment. They just released a new app that is awesome - Talking Thai Phrasebook. Well worth the money also. The more you practice the better your self confidence. Plus it is just fun! Good luck!

This is a great reply from Hummingbird.

I would like to add my 2 Bahts' worth, if I may.

I am slightly younger than you, 60 years young in a few months.

I studied Latin and French in high school; the former is largely lost, but my reading of French is acceptable as I used to read occassional articles in French during my professional life.

I studied Bahasa Indonesia at university for a year, but very rarely used it and it is largely lost now, more so than Latin.

I started learning Vietnamese when I was 17 years old; my ex-wife is Vietnamese and I had many Vietnamese friends. Although I have rarely used the language in the past 15 years, on a trip to Viet Nam 3 years ago, I had little difficulty in reading and conversation. I was actually surprised how much I remembered.

However, I started learning Thai in 1997 (aged 41 at the time) when I was here at a local university for a 6 month sabbatical. At the time I concentrated on speaking rather than reading. After returning to Australia I did not keep up learning Thai. When I retired here 2 years ago, I was shocked at how much Thai I had not retained.

These days I spend about 30 minutes a day on writing, but is is so slow. I also try to learn and retain a few new words a day, but it is so slow.

As we age, our brain plasticity decreases and our short-term and/or long-term memory ability declines. Like alzheimer's onset, these conditions impact people at different ages; early onset alzheimer's can imapct a 50 year old person for example.

Thus, a 70 year old may have no difficulty learning a new language, while a 50 year old may find it difficult due to reduced learning capacity.

In other words, it is a very individual affair, depending on ones ability to learn new languages and ones brain plasticity.

Good luck.

[oneday]

Thai is much harder to learn reading/writing than as spoken. The English alphabet 26 letters, 5 vowels. 6 if you want. Thai has 44 consonants, 24 vowels, 4 special vowels, silent vowels and 5 tones. If you are a 20 year-old falang, possible. As a 68 year-old, virtually impossible unless you have a real gift for languages.

Constant practice of spoken Thai is a given. Thais can usually work out what you are trying to say by context, even when you get the tones wrong.

A Thai dictionary app on your mobile or Kindle is also useful.

By all means attend a school such as Easy Study Thai; however, nothing beats daily communication in Thai with the Thais around you.

It is worth it to learn to communicate in Thai. Many falangs refuse to communicate in anything but English, and that's their loss.

I very much disagree with you on number of vowels. You will get different numbers of vowels from different sources, but the most common number is in the neighborhood of 32. However, I also disagree with that. After a LOT of studying and I mean a lot by reading different sources I came up with 80 different vowels when you include the combination vowels. Of those 9 of them are very rare so call it 70. I'd be happy to list them here for any disbelievers.

You would be doing yourself a huge disservice by not studying the vowel combination of which many are commonly used.

Also there are 44 consonants, but two are obsolete.

At 68 it is possible, but as I said before, you really need to be committed to learning.

The Thai people that will have a better chance of understanding you are the ones that are around falang a lot. The further you get out in the rural areas the better your pronunciation needs to be.

[timmyp]

Go to school and study properly. I cannot stress that enough.

Everybody who speaks Thai at any decent level will tell you the same thing.

I promise that 3 months at a proper Thai language school with a half-a$sed effort will get you to a higher level than people who learned to speak with bargirls and claim to be proficient with their 30-word vocabulary.

Those really aren't the only two choices. (School vs bargirls)

So therefore I disagree. It's not like schools teach you anything you can't find from other sources. (Books, etc.). Then you supplement that with as much real life practise as possible, ideally from a wide range of people of all ages/classes.

If someone knows how to go about learning a language and is a dedicated self-learner, then they can reach even a high level of proficiency without instruction, I agree.

Perhaps you are one of those people, Winnie, and not just an ordinary khwaai (I'll assume your name has long vowel by your avatar, and not a short vowel cuz that means, well, you know already, I'm sure).

I think that's too much to expect of someone, and unrealistic if people think they can do it themselves (again, unless they really know what they're doing).

You definitely gotta learn a language in a way that you feel good about, so if it's someone who really hates hates hates going to class (and you really gotta go to class to determine this) then learning from books or the internet might be the best way. But without some instruction from a properly qualified Thai teacher (i.e., not just a native speaker, whose demerits you described in your post), then the learner is going to hit a brick wall, or learn things in a very wrong way.

[jerrybeirne]

have a look at YMCA, they will let you sit in on a begginers lesson to see what you think of it before you sign up.

the classes might start of at 15-20, a few usuaslly leave. and the age group tends to be more mature.

its good for the basics.

i was at another school recently and apart from another student in his sixties, everyone was half our age and had just left uni or whatever.

too fast for our grey matter.

try also to find a patient thai you can practice with.

chock dii khrap,

jerry.

[Thunderbirds20]

I went to AUA for several months to learn Thai, but never did get fluent and never learned reading or writing. Learn the Thai alphabet and the sounds each letter makes, then you can sound out any written Thai word and have the visual as well as the aural senses working, ....

[RapidMethod]

Thai is much harder to learn reading/writing than as spoken. The English alphabet 26 letters, 5 vowels. 6 if you want. Thai has 44 consonants, 24 vowels, 4 special vowels, silent vowels and 5 tones.

I very much disagree with you on number of vowels. You will get different numbers of vowels from different sources, but the most common number is in the neighborhood of 32. However, I also disagree with that. After a LOT of studying and I mean a lot by reading different sources I came up with 80 different vowels when you include the combination vowels. Of those 9 of them are very rare so call it 70. I'd be happy to list them here for any disbelievers.

You're both kinda wrong. The English alphabet has around 50 letters, depending on how you count them: A, a, B, b, C/c, O/o, th (two versions), sh, ch, gh, ng (two versions), etc. and a very complicated vowel system. E.g., the a in plan or plain or plane are different vowels and we also have "vowel combinations" such as ou, oo, ow, ee or --e (not to mention the "shwa" ə that has no letter equivalent, but the majority of vowels in English are pronounced this way, e.g. "doctor" becomes "doctər").

As for Thai, there are more "official" letters than are necessary. In the Rapid Method, I completely reorganized the alphabet and managed to reduce it to around 25 consonant letters - plus what I call an "invisible" vowel and a "filler"/"spacer" vowel - and about 12 vowel "groups" (or no more than 20 distinct vowels). There are also a bunch of other symbols, but these are easy to remember.

Watch the youtube video that demonstrates how I've regrouped the Thai letters.

This is still not sufficient for being able to read and pronounce Thai, of course; but at least Thai is a logical and highly consistent language (unlike English), so it's actually very easy to learn to read and pronounce Thai accurately.

As for tones, these are very straight forward. We use tones in English also - and I've mapped the tones we use in English onto the Thai tones so that we can get the right sound naturally. And, in fact, in fast colloquial speech, not every tone is pronounced - they are usually run together as a monotonous stream, with just a few words (and usually the last ones) being actually sounded out.

[Maggusoil]

Immersion.

Never got a Thai gf or wife that spoke English.

I learned to read in 1 month - 1 page a day of an AUA book which took 1/2 hour.

Anyone can learn to read - it's easy and the best way to learn new words.

Never been to any school.

Thanks for this. What is an AUA book for the uninitiated?

[RapidMethod]

I went to AUA for several months to learn Thai, but never did get fluent and never learned reading or writing. Learn the Thai alphabet and the sounds each letter makes, then you can sound out any written Thai word and have the visual as well as the aural senses working, ....

AUA is an excellent way to improve your Thai. The classes usually consist of two teachers conversing with each other in a very animated way, using mime and gestures and drawings. You can get the gist of what they're saying from their actions, and they limit the vocabulary and sentence structures to just the right level; plus each lesson is focused on a single topic - so you get to learn a lot just from the context.

There is no need for you to write anything down, to learn/memorize anything, or to speak. It's supposed to be similar to how children learn their own language, initially just be listening before speaking and reading/writing.

HOWEVER, the "ALG" approach in its purist form is not particularly efficient (apologies to Dr Brown). It takes around 600 hours over six months to achieve a certain level of comprehension. And then another 600 hours to get to the next level. All in all, about three years (at 3,600 hours!) to achieve a decent level of everyday fluency. Who has so much time?

IMHO, the approach used at AUA is ideal for training your ear after you've already learnt to read and understand some basic Thai. At AUA, they will recommend that you join a class at slightly above your level of proficiency - so as to "stretch" your mind as you struggle to understand the conversation.

I recommend joining the class one or two levels lower than this, the idea being to simply enjoy being able to immerse yourself in a conversation and allow your ear to attune itself to real-speed spoken Thai.

Then, at home, read through colloquial texts around the topic of the class that you plan on attending, learn the vocabulary using Anki (spaced-repetition flashcards) and practice speaking the words and phrases out loud until you can do so fast and accurately.

No need to attend every AUA class, just a few each week will do - so long as you do the mental and physical preparation beforehand.

And then just go and enjoy yourself, the sheer pleasure of being able to listen in on a fun and entertaining Thai conversation and hear and understand most of it!

PS, I think only the AUA schools in Bangkok have these classes (with the two teachers and the ALG Method).

[KonKorat]

Thai can't be that difficult to learn,if nearly 68 million Thai's can learn it,,what more can i say!

[chrissables]

Thai is much harder to learn reading/writing than as spoken. The English alphabet 26 letters, 5 vowels. 6 if you want. Thai has 44 consonants, 24 vowels, 4 special vowels, silent vowels and 5 tones.

I very much disagree with you on number of vowels. You will get different numbers of vowels from different sources, but the most common number is in the neighborhood of 32. However, I also disagree with that. After a LOT of studying and I mean a lot by reading different sources I came up with 80 different vowels when you include the combination vowels. Of those 9 of them are very rare so call it 70. I'd be happy to list them here for any disbelievers.

You're both kinda wrong. The English alphabet has around 50 letters, depending on how you count them: A, a, B, b, C/c, O/o, th (two versions), sh, ch, gh, ng (two versions), etc. and a very complicated vowel system. E.g., the a in plan or plain or plane are different vowels and we also have "vowel combinations" such as ou, oo, ow, ee or --e (not to mention the "shwa" ə that has no letter equivalent, but the majority of vowels in English are pronounced this way, e.g. "doctor" becomes "doctər").

As for Thai, there are more "official" letters than are necessary. In the Rapid Method, I completely reorganized the alphabet and managed to reduce it to around 25 consonant letters - plus what I call an "invisible" vowel and a "filler"/"spacer" vowel - and about 12 vowel "groups" (or no more than 20 distinct vowels). There are also a bunch of other symbols, but these are easy to remember.

Watch the youtube video that demonstrates how I've regrouped the Thai letters.

This is still not sufficient for being able to read and pronounce Thai, of course; but at least Thai is a logical and highly consistent language (unlike English), so it's actually very easy to learn to read and pronounce Thai accurately.

As for tones, these are very straight forward. We use tones in English also - and I've mapped the tones we use in English onto the Thai tones so that we can get the right sound naturally. And, in fact, in fast colloquial speech, not every tone is pronounced - they are usually run together as a monotonous stream, with just a few words (and usually the last ones) being actually sounded out.

I completely reorganized the alphabet and managed to reduce it to around 25 consonant letters !!!

Not the best way to promote a teaching style i would have thought.

Besides a few obsolete letters, they are there for a reason.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ No they're not. There are many that serve no purpose other than to indicate the origins of a word in Pali/Sanskrit, or royal language.

In fact, reducing to 25 (26) or so is exactly what they did in Laos. If you look at the Lao alphabet (which is perfectly capable of writing any Thai word too), you see that there are about 26 left, IIRC. So they simplified that nicely. It's a bit of a weird animal, the Lao alphabet.. it looks a bit archaic in style, but it does make sense to throw out consonants that serve no real purpose.

In Thai for example you'd lose nothing (in terms of accurately recording a sound) by keeping just Th-Tahan and throwing out all the other low class T's: Th-Thong, Th-Montho (you could go a year without ever needing that one) and Th-Phuthao.

Edited July 22, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Hummingbird]

I went to AUA for several months to learn Thai, but never did get fluent and never learned reading or writing. Learn the Thai alphabet and the sounds each letter makes, then you can sound out any written Thai word and have the visual as well as the aural senses working, ....

AUA is an excellent way to improve your Thai. The classes usually consist of two teachers conversing with each other in a very animated way, using mime and gestures and drawings. You can get the gist of what they're saying from their actions, and they limit the vocabulary and sentence structures to just the right level; plus each lesson is focused on a single topic - so you get to learn a lot just from the context.

There is no need for you to write anything down, to learn/memorize anything, or to speak. It's supposed to be similar to how children learn their own language, initially just be listening before speaking and reading/writing.

HOWEVER, the "ALG" approach in its purist form is not particularly efficient (apologies to Dr Brown). It takes around 600 hours over six months to achieve a certain level of comprehension. And then another 600 hours to get to the next level. All in all, about three years (at 3,600 hours!) to achieve a decent level of everyday fluency. Who has so much time?

IMHO, the approach used at AUA is ideal for training your ear after you've already learnt to read and understand some basic Thai. At AUA, they will recommend that you join a class at slightly above your level of proficiency - so as to "stretch" your mind as you struggle to understand the conversation.

I recommend joining the class one or two levels lower than this, the idea being to simply enjoy being able to immerse yourself in a conversation and allow your ear to attune itself to real-speed spoken Thai.

Then, at home, read through colloquial texts around the topic of the class that you plan on attending, learn the vocabulary using Anki (spaced-repetition flashcards) and practice speaking the words and phrases out loud until you can do so fast and accurately.

No need to attend every AUA class, just a few each week will do - so long as you do the mental and physical preparation beforehand.

And then just go and enjoy yourself, the sheer pleasure of being able to listen in on a fun and entertaining Thai conversation and hear and understand most of it!

PS, I think only the AUA schools in Bangkok have these classes (with the two teachers and the ALG Method).

FYI, AUA schools in Bangkok and Chiang Mai have totally different curricula. The school in BKK teaches the ALG method (observing but not participating) and Chiang Mai has textbooks and teaches in levels. One can go online and watch a huge amount of the ALG videos on YouTube for free. They are great for picking up the rhythm of the language plus vocabulary and are quite fun to watch. I thoroughly enjoy them. They are progressive so you can start from day one and spend hours and hours listening. In Chiang Mai, there is one teacher for a class and they use their own materials but are similar to any other school in Chiang Mai. Participation is required and there is homework. Classes are for five days a week and are intense. The OP is an older learner. So am I. For me, it was too much information, too fast. It is luck of the draw on which teacher you end up with. Some are good and some are not. You do not know until after you pay your money and the class begins as to who your instructor is. I think one really needs to do their homework researching schools if they are going to invest a lot of time (and money) in learning. Most of the Chiang Mai schools will let you sit in on part of a class prior to committing. If they don't, I would be sceptical. I'm assuming the OP is from Chiang Mai since that is the forum that this was posted in.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Hummingbird

[chrissables]

^ No they're not. There are many that serve no purpose other than to indicate the origins of a word in Pali/Sanskrit, or royal language.

In fact, reducing to 25 (26) or so is exactly what they did in Laos. If you look at the Lao alphabet (which is perfectly capable of writing any Thai word too), you see that there are about 26 left, IIRC. So they simplified that nicely. It's a bit of a weird animal, the Lao alphabet.. it looks a bit archaic in style, but it does make sense to throw out consonants that serve no real purpose.

In Thai for example you'd lose nothing (in terms of accurately recording a sound) by keeping just Th-Tahan and throwing out all the other low class T's: Th-Thong, Th-Montho (you could go a year without ever needing that one) and Th-Phuthao.

I am not expert in any language, it is just my view.

With regard to listening, you are correct, but for the written word, for whatever reason those letters are there for a reason. It's their language, so surely it should be learnt as it is.

Imagine learning the "new" style, being proficient and then being offered a job were the "new" style is not used, would you be able to use the language skills you have, or learn more?

It seems you have learned the "real" Thai alphabet as many have. I don't understand, why anybody would think they can change another countries way of writing to make it easier to learn.