Draft charter faces rejection if Shinawatras banned: Pheu Thai member

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Draft charter faces rejection if Shinawatras banned: Pheu Thai member
KASAMAKORN CHANWANPEN
THE NATION

CDC member says lifetime ban not too extreme; fair punishment for violators

BANGKOK: -- The latest attempt to block the Shinawatra siblings from ever returning to politics could result in the draft charter failing to pass the planned referendum, as Pheu Thai supporters would not be happy to see their favourite politicians wiped out, a Pheu Thai politician said yesterday.

The Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) last week agreed to add a provision to Article 111 that stipulates qualifications required for candidates to contest for a seat in the House of Representatives or Senate. The new provision bans politicians who were impeached for any of four infringements from politics for life, prohibiting them from holding any political positions.

The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy, and misconduct in the justice system.

Former prime ministers Thaksin and Yingluck Shinawatra could fall into this category, as the brother had been found to be unusually rich, while the sister had been impeached by the military-appointed National Legislative Assembly this year for negligence of duty over the rice-pledging scheme, a source from the CDC said.

Former Pheu Thai MP Worachai Hema voiced his frustration over this provision, saying "they" were obviously trying to get rid of politicians from the Pheu Thai camp.

"It is very clear that those who come under this category are from the Pheu Thai side. Obviously, this is a move to block former PM Yingluck and some former Pheu Thai MPs who are facing impeachment," he said.

"This charter is not legitimate. It is not the people's voice. The drafters, as everybody knows, have not been elected to do this, so I strongly object.

"We'll see if it [the draft charter] will pass the referendum. There are many Pheu Thai supporters out there and they might vote it down because it is unfairly discriminating against Yingluck and many other MPs," he said.

The former MP also said this provision could be a move by the powers-that-be to stay on, as such an unfair charter would not pass the referendum.

However, CDC member Jade Donavanik said the lifetime ban was an appropriate punishment.

"A lifetime ban is not too extreme and this is done in many other countries. If politicians are found to be corrupt, they are not allowed to join politics ever again. Many European countries do this. In the US, Australia, New Zealand, Japan etc, corrupt politicians are banned for life," he said.

Tankhun Jitissara, a former Democrat MP for Don Muang, said the Shinawatra camp and other corrupt politicians deserved being banned.

"I think a harsh punishment should be imposed on everybody who is guilty of corruption, and their assets should also be seized," he said. However, he admitted that a lifetime ban was a bit extreme and that a 10-year prohibition should suffice, adding that there should also be other mechanisms in place to help prevent graft.

"A 10-year ban is more than enough. But what's more important is that the offenders should be made to pay for what they have done. For instance, they should seize their assets, because banning alone is too little and does not make up for the damage caused," Tankhun said.

"The worst thing about corruption is the patronage system. They should try and find a way to get rid of this. It would be more sustainable when it comes to dealing with corruption."

Banned for life

Under the new provision, certain people would face a lifetime ban from politics:

l Those fired or discharged from public office, state office or state enterprises for malfeasance;

l Those whose assets have been seized under a court order because of their "unusual wealth";

l Those convicted by a court for malfeasance or being involved in election fraud;

l Those impeached or having had their political rights revoked for any of these four offences - unusual wealth, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy, and misconduct in the justice system.

A five-year ban from politics would be given to individuals who:

l Submit a false assets report;

l Were impeached for violating a law or the constitution;

l Seriously violated codes of conduct.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Draft-charter-faces-rejection-if-Shinawatras-banne-30264876.html

-- The Nation 2015-07-21

[Wilsonandson]

Those with the surname Shinawatra. Those associated or friends of those with the surname Shinawatra. Nice to see that the main priority of the new government is to rid Thailand of the Shinawatra's political influence. One sided reform is still the agenda. As the song goes'We're on a road to nowhere'.

[worgeordie]

Maybe all ex MP's should be banned for life,get rid of all

the corrupt politicians and parties and start afresh with new

blood,and at same time put in place very strict rules and

punishments for those that don't abide by the rules.

When/if a new elected Government is in place ,its just

going to be back to square one,with the same politicians

working for their benefits instead of for the people.

regards worgeordie

[ikke]

There should be few "offences" added to the four....

-Military or ex military

-Police or ex police

-Clowns in uniforms

-Leaders of mass demonstrations

-Monks

[lovetotravel]

Those with the surname Shinawatra. Those associated or friends of those with the surname Shinawatra. Nice to see that the main priority of the new government is to rid Thailand of the Shinawatra's political influence. One sided reform is still the agenda. As the song goes'We're on a road to nowhere'.

Read the new rule carefully. It applies to all corrupt politicians. Nobody is named outright. It's just one party isn't happy their chosen ones might be caught up in this.

These types of laws are drastically needed here. You should go to jail if you shoot and kill someone. As it stands now, nothing happens to the MP. Not even an investigation.

[Alwyn]

How to win a fight.. Make sure you have nobody who can fight you

[EnglishJohn]

"The new provision bans politicians who were impeached for any of four infringements from politics for life, prohibiting them from holding any political positions."

"The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy, and misconduct in the justice system."

Pheu-Thai politician: " "they" were obviously trying to get rid of politicians from the Pheu Thai camp."

I don't know how much more obvious you need it. The political choice in Thai politics basically boils down to whether you support corruption or not. The thing which still amazes me is how these people and their supporters here feel no embarrassment or shame for what they say.

[Lupatria]

The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy

If this was enforced not only to a handpicked elite, how many "officials" would be left to run the circus?

[smutcakes]

The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy

If this was enforced not only to a handpicked elite, how many "officials" would be left to run the circus?

Very few, and very few of the current NCPO, NRC, NLA or CDC would probably be their, particularly the police and military ones for unusual wealth.

At least Prayuts brother would be banned for 5 years for submitting a false assets report.

For me, the general stipulations is a good thing, but again as with everything else, they continue to tippy toe and ignore the ultimate problem which is the ineffective and questionably ethical and morally suspect court system. You can have all the laws in the world, but they are pointless unless they are applied properly and evenly across the board.

Until the NCPO tackle the police and judiciary any reform is completely pointless. Given they have already said they won't do this, any new laws are pointless.

[timewilltell]

Why would any country want a person who has shown themselves to be a traitor by stealing from their own country through corruption, to be placed in a positions of power again? I can see no argument against the principle. Of course the problem is that the Justice system is so open to rampant abuse by politicians and the rich to get what they want by twisting and lying with the support of the courts that the law may very well be used to ban innocent people from power. That said I don't think many politicians in Thailand have much in the way of principles so maybe not a bad thing.

As a well as a lifetime ban, the proceeds of their corruption should be seized too. A simple ban is not sufficient deterrent in a country where money is Gid and politicians, police and military can amass a fortune in a very short time once they get to the top. A ban does not stand ffor much when you have a few thousand million stashed away.

Edited July 21, 2015 by timewilltell

[TimmyT]

the best proof in whose interest Pheu Thai acts

[ginjag]

There should be few "offences" added to the four....

-Military or ex military

-Police or ex police

-Clowns in uniforms

-Leaders of mass demonstrations

-Monks

Expected from you, amazing you find no fault with past offenders who violated the rules and used corruption to the hilt---whoever they are---BAN FOR LIFE, as for your comments --your agenda will not allow you to post what I posted----BUT I agree with the Police addition--especially The appointed Shin police from the old school--and family and friends of.

[ginjag]

How to win a fight.. Make sure you have nobody who can fight you

Not the point, are you condoning the lousy wrong doers ?? if you have Thailand at heart you would want to be shut of all that have been mentioned AND OTHERS.

PTP are crying because they would not have chance to plunder and pillage again, THEY shot themselves in the foot now they are screaming--better they get a real job than rely on perks as politicians

[robblok]

The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy

If this was enforced not only to a handpicked elite, how many "officials" would be left to run the circus?

Very few, and very few of the current NCPO, NRC, NLA or CDC would probably be their, particularly the police and military ones for unusual wealth.

At least Prayuts brother would be banned for 5 years for submitting a false assets report.

For me, the general stipulations is a good thing, but again as with everything else, they continue to tippy toe and ignore the ultimate problem which is the ineffective and questionably ethical and morally suspect court system. You can have all the laws in the world, but they are pointless unless they are applied properly and evenly across the board.

Until the NCPO tackle the police and judiciary any reform is completely pointless. Given they have already said they won't do this, any new laws are pointless.

Good to see that you at least agree that banning corrupt politicians for life is a good thing. No surprise that there is resistance from the PTP side. They know they got the most corrupt politicians (at least by virtue of being in power the longest) and know they would suffer the most. But again it is not political. Nobody forced them to steal and be corrupt.

A lifetime ban is the minimum, assets should also be recovered. I agree that this should be wider.. including army and police.

[smutcakes]

The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy

If this was enforced not only to a handpicked elite, how many "officials" would be left to run the circus?

Very few, and very few of the current NCPO, NRC, NLA or CDC would probably be their, particularly the police and military ones for unusual wealth.

At least Prayuts brother would be banned for 5 years for submitting a false assets report.

For me, the general stipulations is a good thing, but again as with everything else, they continue to tippy toe and ignore the ultimate problem which is the ineffective and questionably ethical and morally suspect court system. You can have all the laws in the world, but they are pointless unless they are applied properly and evenly across the board.

Until the NCPO tackle the police and judiciary any reform is completely pointless. Given they have already said they won't do this, any new laws are pointless.

Good to see that you at least agree that banning corrupt politicians for life is a good thing. No surprise that there is resistance from the PTP side. They know they got the most corrupt politicians (at least by virtue of being in power the longest) and know they would suffer the most. But again it is not political. Nobody forced them to steal and be corrupt.

A lifetime ban is the minimum, assets should also be recovered. I agree that this should be wider.. including army and police.

I have never been against the strongest possible penalties for corruption or any other infraction.

Why i am skeptical is because I have absolutely zero respect and belief that the law will be applied evenly and fairly across the board by the judiciary or the 'independent' agencies.

[halloween]

"The new provision bans politicians who were impeached for any of four infringements from politics for life, prohibiting them from holding any political positions."

"The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy, and misconduct in the justice system."

Pheu-Thai politician: " "they" were obviously trying to get rid of politicians from the Pheu Thai camp."

I don't know how much more obvious you need it. The political choice in Thai politics basically boils down to whether you support corruption or not. The thing which still amazes me is how these people and their supporters here feel no embarrassment or shame for what they say.

You gotta cut the PTP guy some slack, he looks like losing a major part of his income. There's not many party bosses pay like the Shinawatras.

He might even get to the desperate stage of joining the Democrats and paying party dues, instead of monthly cheques for his vote.

[bamnutsak]

If this is truly the last, best, final charter, then give everyone a fresh-start (amnesty for all but violent crimes).

But we all know that won't happen.

Can't see this charter passing a referendum, either through a boycott or a no vote. Can't see the regime risking a referendum as is, so look for an event to postpone this charter vote.

[TEFLKrabi]

The next generation of Politicians, assuming one or two come from the same families, could make for an amusing next few years.

[halloween]

I have never been against the strongest possible penalties for corruption or any other infraction.

Why i am skeptical is because I have absolutely zero respect and belief that the law will be applied evenly and fairly across the board by the judiciary or the 'independent' agencies.

When you grow up a bit you will realise that life isn't fair, and guilt doesn't rely on who your friends are.

Worked out those water charts yet?

[halloween]

If this is truly the last, best, final charter, then give everyone a fresh-start (amnesty for all but violent crimes).

But we all know that won't happen.

Can't see this charter passing a referendum, either through a boycott or a no vote. Can't see the regime risking a referendum as is, so look for an event to postpone this charter vote.

Spoken like a true Thaksin sycophant. Reconciliation is letting our criminals off the hook.

[eggers]

The frmr Thai MP Worachai Hema stated "It is very clear that those who come under this category are from the Pheu Thai side........to block former PM Yingluck and some former Pheu Thai MPs....." .

​The draft charter lists 4 categories for lifetime ban, i.e. being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy, and misconduct in the justice system.

​Worachai Hema is upset that the proposed clause will adversely affect Pheu Thai politicians, well, guess if they've been found guilty, then they pay the price whoever they are. Does he want special dispensation, just because they happen to be Pheu Thai politicians (aka crooks)?

[smutcakes]

I have never been against the strongest possible penalties for corruption or any other infraction.

Why i am skeptical is because I have absolutely zero respect and belief that the law will be applied evenly and fairly across the board by the judiciary or the 'independent' agencies.

When you grow up a bit you will realise that life isn't fair, and guilt doesn't rely on who your friends are.

Worked out those water charts yet?

No i have not even bothered. There is someone on the thread who has apparently worked on the projects since 1982 who says you are talking complete turd as i already knew.

You have trust in the judiciary in Thailand?

[Eric Loh]

Neat act to eliminated the Shins since no one else from the yellow side have been convicted. How appropriate that Thaksin and Yingluck fall into that category. Expect the junta apologists will say that only they are corrupted.

[robblok]

The four offences in question are being unusually wealthy, performing duties dishonestly, malfeasance in the bureaucracy

If this was enforced not only to a handpicked elite, how many "officials" would be left to run the circus?

Very few, and very few of the current NCPO, NRC, NLA or CDC would probably be their, particularly the police and military ones for unusual wealth.

At least Prayuts brother would be banned for 5 years for submitting a false assets report.

For me, the general stipulations is a good thing, but again as with everything else, they continue to tippy toe and ignore the ultimate problem which is the ineffective and questionably ethical and morally suspect court system. You can have all the laws in the world, but they are pointless unless they are applied properly and evenly across the board.

Until the NCPO tackle the police and judiciary any reform is completely pointless. Given they have already said they won't do this, any new laws are pointless.

Good to see that you at least agree that banning corrupt politicians for life is a good thing. No surprise that there is resistance from the PTP side. They know they got the most corrupt politicians (at least by virtue of being in power the longest) and know they would suffer the most. But again it is not political. Nobody forced them to steal and be corrupt.

A lifetime ban is the minimum, assets should also be recovered. I agree that this should be wider.. including army and police.

I have never been against the strongest possible penalties for corruption or any other infraction.

Why i am skeptical is because I have absolutely zero respect and belief that the law will be applied evenly and fairly across the board by the judiciary or the 'independent' agencies.

You mean like how the DSI was Tarits little pet to go after the enemy (depending on what side Tarit was at the time). Both sides are vindictive and use the institutions at their own advantage. I agree that is a problem but if it gets at least some corrupt officials its a good thing.

But I want to see ALL also democrats, military, police, that are corrupt getting the same treatment, but i settle for less as its still better as nothing.

[ikke]

There should be few "offences" added to the four....

-Military or ex military

-Police or ex police

-Clowns in uniforms

-Leaders of mass demonstrations

-Monks

Expected from you, amazing you find no fault with past offenders who violated the rules and used corruption to the hilt---whoever they are---BAN FOR LIFE, as for your comments --your agenda will not allow you to post what I posted----BUT I agree with the Police addition--especially The appointed Shin police from the old school--and family and friends of.

Mr.Gin, you expected from me..... "amazing you find no fault with past offenders who violated the rules and used corruption to the hilt---whoever they are---BAN FOR LIFE"

Well if you read what i write you should notice that i say "Add" , that implicates that i do agree with the four they put in .

But as expected from you, you read only what you like to understand, and that seems to be nothing bad about your beloved junta.

You have ,same as the Junta, only one mission , that's getting rid of the Shins and friends thereof , no matter what the price is.

No governing needed, no economy needed, nothing happiness to the people bullsh*t , only hunting, that where you stand for.

[Alwyn]

How to win a fight.. Make sure you have nobody who can fight you

Not the point, are you condoning the lousy wrong doers ?? if you have Thailand at heart you would want to be shut of all that have been mentioned AND OTHERS.

PTP are crying because they would not have chance to plunder and pillage again, THEY shot themselves in the foot now they are screaming--better they get a real job than rely on perks as politicians

I'm not even going to take you to task, instead I will ask you why you say "PTP are crying because they would not have chance to plunder and pillage again," If you and your hero are so confident how come how come they are hiding and not going for an election? I have Thailand in my heart and illegal coups and self-appointed governments make me puke. If you had Thailand (and more importantly, the Thai people) in your heart, I feel you would think illegal coups are not the way forward?

-

[Linky]

Good on the reds. On paper it seems a good idea but in Thai reality it is nonsense until there is no interference in judiciary.

It is obvious that the good general will ensure that only reds face any charges and will be the only ones banned.

[smutcakes]

How to win a fight.. Make sure you have nobody who can fight you

Not the point, are you condoning the lousy wrong doers ?? if you have Thailand at heart you would want to be shut of all that have been mentioned AND OTHERS.

PTP are crying because they would not have chance to plunder and pillage again, THEY shot themselves in the foot now they are screaming--better they get a real job than rely on perks as politicians

I'm not even going to take you to task, instead I will ask you why you say "PTP are crying because they would not have chance to plunder and pillage again," If you and your hero are so confident how come how come they are hiding and not going for an election? I have Thailand in my heart and illegal coups and self-appointed governments make me puke. If you had Thailand (and more importantly, the Thai people) in your heart, I feel you would think illegal coups are not the way forward?

-

I noticed one of the Democrat MP's was crying about MP immunity being removed, but funnily enough Ginjag fails to criticise that!

[jonclark]

I think that there should also be an additional water tight caveat to this charter;

That all future coups, leaders of coups and subordinates are to be deemed illegal and illegitimate.[unless Thailand National Security is directly and explicitly threatened by a foreign power]

Clearly this caveat is required as this charter is so good, that any future coup which undoes its good work (provided the charter is supported, agreed on and passed in a referendum) must be illegal as you cannot have; a fantastic charter supported and written by the military to ensure democracy on one hand; and the military staging a coup because the charter they 'wrote' was crap and allows abuses of power on the other.

Oh hang on.....didn't that happen before in 2006?

In this context - who gives a crap if politicians are banned or not - The Charter(s) are worth less to the military than the paper they are written on. And they should know as they seem to have written a number of them, all of which they scrap at a later date because those charters are not fit for purpose!

Edited July 21, 2015 by jonclark

[Alwyn]

How to win a fight.. Make sure you have nobody who can fight you

Not the point, are you condoning the lousy wrong doers ?? if you have Thailand at heart you would want to be shut of all that have been mentioned AND OTHERS.

PTP are crying because they would not have chance to plunder and pillage again, THEY shot themselves in the foot now they are screaming--better they get a real job than rely on perks as politicians

I'm not even going to take you to task, instead I will ask you why you say "PTP are crying because they would not have chance to plunder and pillage again," If you and your hero are so confident how come how come they are hiding and not going for an election? I have Thailand in my heart and illegal coups and self-appointed governments make me puke. If you had Thailand (and more importantly, the Thai people) in your heart, I feel you would think illegal coups are not the way forward?

-

I noticed one of the Democrat MP's was crying about MP immunity being removed, but funnily enough Ginjag fails to criticise that!

of course...