Income statements from the Embassy no longer accepted as POI

[BKKstan]

The Nong Khai Immigration has given notice that beginning next year,Embassy affidavits and statements of Income will not be accepted as proof of Income for visa extensions.

800,000 baht deposited by foreign transfer 3 months before applying or 65,000 baht by foreign transfer MONTHLY into a Thai bank account in your name is 'required'!When applying for your next extension proof of income will be a letter from your bank showing evidence of your compliance matching the transfer codes in your bank book.

[Jingthing]

That's harsh!

No problem for those using the 800K method as that's no change.

But for those on income method, they are going rogue as there really is no official policy requiring full IMPORT of all of those funds.

[nowretired]

BKKstan

Is this fact, fiction or just old fashioned rumour ?

Can you post the notice

[inzman]

Nasty rumors should not be started like this. It's not official unless the government says so. Please close this post mod!

[Jingthing]

He's talking about one office.

Not a national enforcement change.

There are always offices doing weird things.

[ubonjoe]

I have read other posts about that. But others have said they will accept income letters if you can show a bank that shows the money coming into the country.

It is time for some people to make some calls to 1111 to complain since that is not correct according to the police order.

[mark5335]

I had a similar experience earlier this month when I applied for my annual extension of stay at Chaengwattana (based on marriage to a Thai national). For previous extensions I had used the 400,000 baht bank deposit, but I was unable to use that method this time. My financial proof was an Income Affidavit witnessed/stamped by a Consular Official of the Australian Embassy Bangkok.

To back up the Affidavit I also brought along with me (1) my Australian bank outward remittance receipts showing AUD amounts sent to my Bangkok Bank account in Bangkok; (2) Bangkok Bank internet banking printout showing the amounts of international bank transfers from Australia into my Bangkok Bank account (THB equivalents); (3) a summary table of items 1 and 2 with average monthly income calculation for easy reference; and (4) my Bangkok Bank passbook.

The initial immigration officer that went through my documents appeared to have never seen an Income Affidavit stamped by the Australian Embassy before, so she checked with a colleague and then accepted it. Then, when our bundle of checked documents were sent to the supervisor, she was unimpressed. She didn't care less about the Australian bank outward remittance receipts nor the Thai ibanking printouts. What she wanted was my Thai bank passbook showing the same amount every month for each of the 12 months. I was unable to show this as my international transfer amounts were not the same every month (although the average amount transferred per month as per my summary table was 55,000 baht per month!); and furthermore I had only updated my passbook on an ad hoc basis and the bank's passbook update machine had 'chucked a wobbly' and skipped about 4 months of transactions in my pass book.

So my lesson learned, was that I must transfer the same amount every month as evidenced on my Thai bank pass book.

In the end, following some polite persuasion from my wife, the supervisor accepted my application and said come back in a month to find out the result.

Edited July 22, 2015 by mark5335

[chainarong]

I had a similar experience earlier this month when I applied for my annual extension of stay at Chaengwattana (based on marriage to a Thai national). For previous extensions I had used the 400,000 baht bank deposit, but I was unable to use that method this time. My financial proof was an Income Affidavit witnessed/stamped by a Consular Official of the Australian Embassy Bangkok.

To back up the Affidavit I also brought along with me (1) my Australian bank outward remittance receipts showing AUD amounts sent to my Bangkok Bank account in Bangkok; (2) Bangkok Bank internet banking printout showing the amounts of international bank transfers from Australia into my Bangkok Bank account (THB equivalents); (3) a summary table of items 1 and 2 with average monthly income calculation for easy reference; and (4) my Bangkok Bank passbook.

The initial immigration officer that went through my documents appeared to have never seen an Income Affidavit stamped by the Australian Embassy before, so she checked with a colleague and then accepted it. Then, when our bundle of checked documents were sent to the supervisor, she was unimpressed. She didn't care less about the Australian bank outward remittance receipts nor the Thai ibanking printouts. What she wanted was my Thai bank passbook showing the same amount every month for each of the 12 months. I was unable to show this as my international transfer amounts were not the same every month (although the average amount transferred per month as per my summary table was 55,000 baht per month!); and furthermore I had only updated my passbook on an ad hoc basis and the bank's passbook update machine had 'chucked a wobbly' and skipped about 4 months of transactions in my pass book.

So my lesson learned, was that I must transfer the same amount every month as evidenced on my Thai bank pass book.

In the end, following some polite persuasion from my wife, the supervisor accepted my application and said come back in a month to find out the result.

Christ what a place Thailand is becoming, they can't even get the immigration system right , everyone has an interpretation nothing is uniformed notice that.

[Rhys]

Don't we all wait for the day to return the treatment .....

[nowretired]

mark5335

The IO was probably only interested in ensuring that there was , in fact, money being bought into Thailand.

Stat Decs are easily made but those who make them should always be prepared to provide evidence which will support what is claimed.

[chiang mai]

Understandable to me at least, the Thai government wants to be assured that a set amount of foreign currency will be received here in Thailand and really doesn't care what an expats overseas income/deposited/not brought into Thailand might be.

[mark5335]

mark5335

The IO was probably only interested in ensuring that there was , in fact, money being bought into Thailand.

Stat Decs are easily made but those who make them should always be prepared to provide evidence which will support what is claimed.

I agree and that's why I brought what I thought was cojent evidence with me that backed up the Affidavit, and was shown to both the Consular Official and the Immigration Officer.

Besides, under Australian federal law, a false statement on a stat dec is a criminal offence, and the Embassy had earlier advised me via emailed correspondence that their stamped / witnessed affidavits have been accepted by Thai Immigration without problems.

Anyway, I now know that the only evidence accepted by Thai Immigration is the bank passbook as mentioned above.

[TheAppletons]

If this policy was adopted nationwide, it would get a LOT of current expats pretty spun up.

@mark5335, your post stated that the IO wanted to see "the same amount" every month reflected in your Thai bank passbook. Do you mean an amount > 65,000 thb/month or do you mean literally the same amount every month?

Transferring the exact same amount each month would be quite the challenge unless you can guess the exact exchange rate that the bank will apply in advance, month after month.

[mark5335]

The IO said 'same amount' but I assume that a similar amount every month is what she really meant to say in English. For example, I had about 5 months where I sent 42K p/month (which is ok for marriage extension) and a few months when I sent over 150K, and several months when I sent zero. She was puzzled by what type of income that I earned overseas. I said it was a mixture of investment income (42K is my actually my net monthly overseas investment rental income so that should be the minimum I send, but because there were a few months earlier in the preceding 12 months with zero, I made up for it in subsequent months with larger amounts.

[khastan]

When was this decided at Nong Khai. I have recently succesfully done my marriage extension there using the embassy letter as proof of income and there was no mention of this.

[bigjohn72]

If this policy was adopted nationwide, it would get a LOT of current expats pretty spun up.

More moneymaking opportunities for the Visa Agents

Edited July 22, 2015 by bigjohn72

[DogNo1]

This is new to me! I have presented the US affadavit of income and it's been accepted each time. Several years ago, they asked to see my US bank statements showing that over 65,000 K in pension payments was deposited in my US bank account each month. I was not required to show that the money had been brought into Thailand. It's been that way ever since.

[IsaanAndy]

I too have never had to provide proof of money in a Thai bank account for my Non-O, marriage extension and the UK embassy letter has always been accepeted without question for 7 years.

My pension is paid into a UK bank account from where I withdraw funds via a Thai ATM on a needs basis, I only keep a small amount (around 100k) of rainy day money in a Thai bank account.

If there was any change to the rules the UK embassy would post on their website that these POI letters would be no longer issued, as of 2 minutes ago they still are.

[hgma]

BBK Stan is probably US Citizen, where Nongkhai used to look at the US Embassy statement and passed on without copy of all pages in the bankbook where the corresponding money was supposed to be send. (as scores of US citizens in NK told me!!!!!!)

In my case code xxx in my savings account has ALWAYS been highlighted on the copies i administered.

code xxx at my bank is foreign transfer to my bank.

NongKhai is harsh but fair in judgement is my honest opinion!

Nothing new .

Edited July 23, 2015 by hgma

[Brit_Doggie]

us dont have to show evidence of income at the embassy my us friend filled in the afadavit put in a figure then signed in front of staff.

So no real proof whereas as the brits have to produce documentation proving the said 800k or more or no letter from the embassy so good news proof not fiction.

[IMA_FARANG]

It has always been the case that different immigration offices have always had the right to ask for "further proof or clarification" as required for your particular case.

The interpretation of the "rules" has always been at that immigration office's discretion.

It is just that now individual offices and the directors of that office are pushing their different interpretations of the guideline "rules" as local requirements.

That may not be what we like, but after all "This is Thailand", not our home country.

Learn to adjust to "This is Thailand".

As far as I know a "statement of Income" signed by the U.S. embassy officer is still being accepted most places without further proof. How long this will be true, I have no idea.

As a Buddhist would say Impermanence is a inherent characteristic of all things. Nothing exists or endures forever.

Change is the only true certainty.

Edited July 23, 2015 by IMA_FARANG

[Solution42]

I went to Nong Khai yesterday 22/07/2015 with a stat dec from the Australian embassy. I too was told that next year not to bother going to get a stat Dec from the Embassy that I needed to show a Thai Bank statement letter from the bank and copies of my bank passbook showing monthly deposits of 65,000 baht or have 800,000 baht in as a deposit for 3ths prior to application. They said they no longer accept letters from the Embassies and that this is that last time I will be able to do a retirement extension using that method. They also advised an American citizen the same as we were discussing it while we were waiting. In addition I had to sign forms acknowledging the late penalties of reporting, overstaying and another form acknowledging I was required to have proof of deposits of 65,000 baht a month into a Thai bank account in my name only or 800,000 baht held in deposit for at least 90 days prior to my application. Since I Only just receive the amount required as a pension but cannot bring all of my funds into Thailand as I need money in Australia each year when I return for a couple of months each year to visit my mother and children from a previous marriage. I ask if next year I could apply for a married to Thai spouse extension instead. I was told I could but would need to bring my wife in with me and have photos of us in front of the house showing the house number, a photo of us in the living room and bedroom in duplicate. I would also need to show monthly bank deposits of 40,000 baht or more each month or 400,000 baht held in deposit for 90 days.

I originally was on a marriage extension 9 years age when I used to go to the Bueng Khan office but then the areas change and I was on Nong Khai's side of the border ( just by 2 kms). I was then unable to go to Bueng Khan any longer and they insisted I attend the Nong Khai's branch. At Nong Khai because my pension was just over 800,000 baht a year they insisted I used a retirement extension as that could be processed on the day and nobody was require to travel to our house for an inspection. Even though I objected as exchange rates could put me just under the amount the would only process me on a retirement extension. I am an Australian citizen 58 years old married for 9 years to a Thai national in Thailand. I reside in our house that I had built for my wife in Ban Ton just outside of Pak Khat.

[Maestro]

...I had to sign...another form acknowledging I was required to have proof of deposits of 65,000 baht a month into a Thai bank account in my name only or 800,000 baht held in deposit for at least 90 days prior to my application...

I hope somebody will post a copy or photo of this document. It is generally a good idea always to keep a copy for one's own record of anything one has to sign.

[oneday]

To "BKKstan" and "Solution42". You should clarify; were you told this verbally or were you handed a printout with the new regulations? You should ask for it in writing as this does not conform to the national law. If you were handed a printout you should upload and post that printout.

Yes, offices do their own thing in many little ways, but this goes way beyond just doing your own thing and it isn't little. Various offices or officers or commanders can throw curve balls, but this is a game changer for a lot of people in Nong Khai. I'll bet they don't have the balls to put this in writing.

I would strongly advise taking "ubonjoe's" suggestion and call 1111 to complain for those of you in Nong Khai who will have trouble with this new requirement. Nothing may come of it, but if you don't call then I can guarantee nothing will come of it.

[Traveling Sailor]

Bye Bye Thailand. This is the straw that breaks my back. I will do my retirement extension next month for the 5th and last time.

I will move to a country that actually likes expats. This one obviously does not. What a bunch of idiots. Killing the geese that lay the golden eggs.

[Solution42]

oneday. Unfortunately I was a bit thrown of guard and didn't get a copy of the form. But I've got to go in and get a re-entry permit for later this year. I am going to make a point of asking for their new regulations in writing and a copy of the forms I signed. It does appear that Nong Khai is the only office doing this but this seems to have been happening from at least November last year. I read a post on here TV about it dated last November. The American I was speaking to said that a lot of his friends in Nong Khai had told him about it as well. Won't be going to Nong Khai again for a few weeks but will post on TV what transpires.

At the time I thought it was a national thing but only till I got on TV when I returned did I realise it seems to only be a Nong Khai thing.

[nowretired]

Bye Bye Thailand. This is the straw that breaks my back. I will do my retirement extension next month for the 5th and last time.

I will move to a country that actually likes expats. This one obviously does not. What a bunch of idiots. Killing the geese that lay the golden eggs.

Bye TS .

A couple of questions f I may......

1. Why bother with the extension ?

2. Which country has more to offer and what is the cost ?

[DaDog]

And then there are those of us that don't even have a bank account here in Thailand for one reason or another, and we get our money from the ATM directly from our home country bank. What now?

[Traveling Sailor]

Bye Bye Thailand. This is the straw that breaks my back. I will do my retirement extension next month for the 5th and last time.

I will move to a country that actually likes expats. This one obviously does not. What a bunch of idiots. Killing the geese that lay the golden eggs.

Bye TS .

A couple of questions f I may......

1. Why bother with the extension ?

2. Which country has more to offer and what is the cost ?

1. Because I've been here 5 years and need time to get rid of accumulated stuff. I'm in no rush to leave. Just won't put up with the new income rules. Dealing with Thai banks is dicey enough now.

2. I need to do the research. I know that Mexico has very favorable climate for retired expats, but don't know the costs.

I may just go back to America. I really love the Bay Area.

[kg1947]

Bye Bye Thailand. This is the straw that breaks my back. I will do my retirement extension next month for the 5th and last time.

I will move to a country that actually likes expats. This one obviously does not. What a bunch of idiots. Killing the geese that lay the golden eggs.

EXACTLY - - as if they find all kinds of reason to make it difficult for us .

Maybe they should just kick out all LEGIMATE PENSIONERS on low fixed income.

A Criminal will have NO TROUBLE depositing THB 10.- MILLION into their account and

season it for 3 months , we the pensioners receive GROSS INCOME , then have to

pay through deductions taxes, etc. - SO what we receive in our account is NET AMOUNT.

How can Thai Immigration EXPECT us to TRANSFER our GROSS INCOME into a Thai

Account ?????? somebody need to study ACCOUNTING & BANKING PROCEDURES .

Looks like somebody is " doodling procedures " while having coffee , absolutely NO

PROFESSIONALISM .