Under the eyes of the law, Thai students ponder democracy, education

[webfact]

Under the eyes of the law, students ponder democracy, education
KASAMAKORN CHANWANPEN
THE NATION August

YOUNGSTERS SHOULD BE TREATED AS 'CIVIC PEOPLE', SEMINAR HEARS

BANGKOK: -- WHAT IS hindering the teaching of democracy in Thai schools? The answer, say authorities, is teachers who treat students as "children" rather than "civic people", and Thai history textbooks that undermine the democratic regime rather than promote it.

Soraj Hongladarom, a philosophy lecturer at the faculty of arts, Chulalongkorn University, said that to promote democratic values, school authorities should stop looking at students as individuals who need protection - or as "kids". They should be regarded as grown-ups who have responsibilities and rights, he said.

Soraj was speaking at a seminar on "democracy in schools" held by the Education for Liberation Group.

"The relationship between teachers and students in schools is a form of power relations. It is an adults-and-children relationship rather than one between civic people," he said, adding that these issues are the challenges facing democracy in schools.

One solution, he said, would be to include students on school or university councils. The student government should truly represent all students in the school and spearhead the call for changes beneficial to students.

Besides that, Soraj said, teachers should not act as "Mr Know-It-All", and should not hold absolute power.

"The enforcement of any rule in schools should serve the purpose of education or the mission of the school. And it should also be in accordance with democratic values and academic excellence," he said.

Pipat Krajaechan, a history lecturer at Thammasat University, reflected on Thai history as presented in Thai textbooks. He said many contained discourses undermining democracy and promoting nationalism.

"It is important that students acknowledge how some textbooks are produced by one set of beliefs and have the purpose, more often than not, to attempt to make us believe in a central idea and not to question it.

"One of the beliefs taught through Thai history textbooks is that the 1932 Revolution was premature and that King Rama VII was already preparing to give a constitution to the people," Pipat said as an example. He cited a high-school history textbook used in public schools throughout Thailand.

Pipat added that such a belief contradicted other versions of history written by scholars, Thai and international. It was necessary that students acknowledged there was more than one version of history, he said.

Two other speakers were Sombat Boonngamanong and Nattanan Warintarawet, an activist and a student known for supporting democracy and opposing the junta. The latter recently submitted a blank answer sheet of her high-school examination in a bid to express her resistance to the military government.

At the seminar, both suggested that asking questions in class rather than just passively listening was one of the most essential things students could do that would help develop democracy in school.

Nattanan also raised an idea of "civic education", which she said was a process of socialisation, taking place from birth to death. It was not limited to only inside a classroom and would help shape students to participate in society in a democratic way.

She went on to emphasise that to receive such an education, one could begin by questioning, not only in the classroom but also in general.

Plainclothes security officials were present to observe the seminar held at a coffee shop called House of Commons located in the same area as Suan Ngern Mee Ma, an alternative training centre. Owned by social critic Sulak Sivarak, it was the place where the 14 students accused of violating the National Council for Peace and Order's instructions and committing sedition were arrested last month.

During the Q&A session, a high-schooler who had hosted the event claimed to have been contacted by police officers and questioned about why he was holding the seminar. Also, he said the owner of the coffee shop had received an instant message on the Line application asking similar questions.

The Nation approached a police officer in charge of observing the event, but he refused to speak.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Under-the-eyes-of-the-law-students-ponder-democrac-30265854.html


-- The Nation 2015-08-04

[richard10365]

I think many countries structure their schools in a way to produce citizens to fit in to that country's version of society. Of course not everyone is pleased with the results. Writing textbooks to reflect values not practiced by the country's people or government seems like it would do more harm than good. For example, consider the United States. They teach democratic values in schools but the society the graduate into sometimes is undemocratic and fragmented. Special interest, lobbiest, and large cable news organizations end up poisoning the democratic process removing the individual's freedom of thought and choice. Critical thinking is no longer done by citizens. I'm not against democracy but think the country as a whole should transition into that frame of thinking and not just the youth.

[chainarong]

I think many countries structure their schools in a way to produce citizens to fit in to that country's version of society. Of course not everyone is pleased with the results. Writing textbooks to reflect values not practiced by the country's people or government seems like it would do more harm than good. For example, consider the United States. They teach democratic values in schools but the society the graduate into sometimes is undemocratic and fragmented. Special interest, lobbiest, and large cable news organizations end up poisoning the democratic process removing the individual's freedom of thought and choice. Critical thinking is no longer done by citizens. I'm not against democracy but think the country as a whole should transition into that frame of thinking and not just the youth.

Bit late trying to teach the general population isn't it.

[chainarong]

This is probably the only way to tackle this learning process , however Thai's trying to teach Democracy is like trying to teach English, they have no concept of what the subject is about and how it should be taught , one wonders if this word democracy is bandied about only for cosmetic purposes to appease the international community and within the secret walls and halls of power there is no intention of a proper Democratic Governance or process ever intended , because they have failed so far big time, Thailand has had since 1973, how long do you need.

[zaphod reborn]

The Thai educational system is only capable of teaching one subject: Thai culture, and that subject is taught using rote-learning. The schools jam that subject down student's throats every year of schooling, and it receives highest priority by the administrators. How can students learn about democracy, when they don't learn world history or even civics?

[tbthailand]

Pipat Krajaechan, a history lecturer at Thammasat University, reflected on Thai history as presented in Thai textbooks. He said many contained discourses undermining democracy and promoting nationalism.

"It is important that students acknowledge how some textbooks are produced by one set of beliefs and have the purpose, more often than not, to attempt to make us believe in a central idea and not to question it.

"One of the beliefs taught through Thai history textbooks is that the 1932 Revolution was premature and that King Rama VII was already preparing to give a constitution to the people," Pipat said as an example. He cited a high-school history textbook used in public schools throughout Thailand.

Pipat added that such a belief contradicted other versions of history written by scholars, Thai and international. It was necessary that students acknowledged there was more than one version of history, he said.

There are a couple of good points made here regarding the revision of Thai history and I have not seen them acknowledged publicly in Thailand for a very long time....

[Thailand]

I thought democracy was banned?

[Hayduke]

I thought democracy was banned?

No...it's just being redefined.

[EnglishJohn]

I thought democracy was banned?

No, you are confusing it with 'Winner takes all'.

You will get another try with a different version soon. Hopefully you won't twist this one to be unrecognisable through greed and corruption.

But I am sure you will find a way.

[djjamie]

"Students ponder democracy, education"

It is good to see that seminars be set up to funnel the students energy into constructive matters. It is more progressive and certainly achieves a lot more than failing exams and sitting around waiting to be arrested to say "I broke the law and look at the big bad Junta". At least the Junta never threatened them with violence or called them garbage. That would be undemocratic!

Maybe these students that have positive input to help the majority can discuss this will the 1000's of students that joined the PDRC protests that yearned for democracy as well. Seems they have a lot in common.

Of course some students will have already been brainwashed by negative elements of society and feel that through failure and violence they can get what they want (including the kool girls at uni!). I pity them.

Edited August 4, 2015 by djjamie

[NickJ]

Thai democracy just isnt the same as western democracy........

Read that in the Bangkok Post awhile back.

It was a quote from an MP if I remember right.

In Thailand it seems democracy is something you pay for or customise to fit your agenda.

[jayboy]

I thought democracy was banned?

No, you are confusing it with 'Winner takes all'.

You will get another try with a different version soon. Hopefully you won't twist this one to be unrecognisable through greed and corruption.

But I am sure you will find a way.

If you reflected carefully on The Nation's excellent article and gave due consideration to the more thoughtful comments in this thread, you might with the necessary diligence become less dependent on such simple minded and ignorant cliches - such as the definition of democracy meaning winner takes all.

[lap82]

"Nattanan also raised an idea of "civic education", which she said was a process of socialisation, taking place from birth to death. It was not limited to only inside a classroom and would help shape students to participate in society in a democratic way."

Too good to be true, unfortunately. And this isn't exclusively a Thai failure. It's a human issue.

[lildragon]

"Students ponder democracy, education"

It is good to see that seminars be set up to funnel the students energy into constructive matters. It is more progressive and certainly achieves a lot more than failing exams and sitting around waiting to be arrested to say "I broke the law and look at the big bad Junta". At least the Junta never threatened them with violence or called them garbage. That would be undemocratic!

Maybe these students that have positive input to help the majority can discuss this will the 1000's of students that joined the PDRC protests that yearned for democracy as well. Seems they have a lot in common.

Of course some students will have already been brainwashed by negative elements of society and feel that through failure and violence they can get what they want (including the kool girls at uni!). I pity them.

The reason they don't join in with Suthep and the PDRC Jamie is that these people aren't completely blinkered like you and know that Suthep and his cohorts have a self serving agenda and alterior motives. Notice that they aren't having this discussion at a red shirt rally either.

The junta and Suthep only want reforms that benefit them and give them more power. This group seems to realise the whole damn system is corrupt. They also realise that critical thinking and freedom of expression is not taught in schools. Just edited Thai history (with things like the military mascaraing their own people and Thaksin's reign edited out).

These people certainly give Thailand hope more than a crook like Suthep does. Slowly but surely Thai people are waking up to the actions of the elite on BOTH sides thanks to the internet and social media. More powee to them and I hope their voice grows louder and louder.

[Just1Voice]

I've had the opportunity to talk with Nattanan Warintarawet, and I can tell you, this is one Very Intelligent 17 year old. Definitely wise beyond her years. She has applied to a number of "Ivy League" schools in the U.S., plus a few "lower ranked" ones, just in case. I would say, remember her name, because I have a feeling you're going to hear it in the future.

[lildragon]

I've had the opportunity to talk with Nattanan Warintarawet, and I can tell you, this is one Very Intelligent 17 year old. Definitely wise beyond her years. She has applied to a number of "Ivy League" schools in the U.S., plus a few "lower ranked" ones, just in case. I would say, remember her name, because I have a feeling you're going to hear it in the future.

Notice that the junta boys on here stay silent as she's from an affluent BKK family and is not from (and didn't study at) the north east

I wish her the best of luck and hope she comes back to work to break this vicious cycle Thailand is stuck in.

[lildragon]

And if it is only 7% then why the delay in elections? Prayuth if he ran for office would win by an over whelming margin or Aphibsit or Even Suthep for that matter. If it's only the dastardly shins that are capable of corruption then we need to worry less about reforms and getting one of these over whelmingly popular men as PM by democratic vote.

I wonder why that hasn't happened?

[FangFerang]

"One of the beliefs taught through Thai history textbooks is that the 1932 Revolution was premature and that King Rama VII was already preparing to give a constitution to the people," Pipat said as an example. He cited a high-school history textbook used in public schools throughout Thailand.Pipat added that such a belief contradicted other versions of history written by scholars, Thai and international. It was necessary that students acknowledged there was more than one version of history, he said.

This professor is an intelligent and brave Thai, considering the political climate. He has my utmost respect.

[tbthailand]

"One of the beliefs taught through Thai history textbooks is that the 1932 Revolution was premature and that King Rama VII was already preparing to give a constitution to the people," Pipat said as an example. He cited a high-school history textbook used in public schools throughout Thailand.Pipat added that such a belief contradicted other versions of history written by scholars, Thai and international. It was necessary that students acknowledged there was more than one version of history, he said.

This professor is an intelligent and brave Thai, considering the political climate. He has my utmost respect.

that such a belief contradicted other versions of history written by scholars, Thai and international.

this is but one example of the prevailing revisionism during the last century....

[chainarong]

I thought democracy was banned?

No...it's just being redefined.

Re Corrupted in disguise

[MZurf]

The reason they don't join in with Suthep and the PDRC Jamie is that these people aren't completely blinkered like you and know that Suthep and his cohorts have a self serving agenda and alterior motives. Notice that they aren't having this discussion at a red shirt rally either.

The junta and Suthep only want reforms that benefit them and give them more power. This group seems to realise the whole damn system is corrupt. They also realise that critical thinking and freedom of expression is not taught in schools. Just edited Thai history (with things like the military mascaraing their own people and Thaksin's reign edited out).

These people certainly give Thailand hope more than a crook like Suthep does. Slowly but surely Thai people are waking up to the actions of the elite on BOTH sides thanks to the internet and social media. More powee to them and I hope their voice grows louder and louder.

Their voice grew very very loud pre May 22nd when record numbers from both sides of the political divide hit the streets reaching a crescendo of protest against the govt.

Of course the UDD who have a 7% minority backing refer to elections 4 years ago to gauge their popularity while ignoring all the signs that the majority are no longer behind them. Of course that does not stop them purporting to have the backing of the majority. Unfortunately when one continues to hold the majority in contempt they lose the backing.

Some have already started disrespecting the majority if when the next election goes against the PTP and UDD by stating it will be rigged! Any excuse to ignore the majorities wishes unless it suits them.

Throughout the last 10 years the majority have only ever been respected when it suits the regime agenda. When the majority do not suit them and as you have wonderfully highlighted (thank you for that) they purport to speak for the majority while ignoring them. Or in the case of pre May, 22 ignore them until they protest then threaten their families and intimidate them.

Thank you and have a lovely day my friend.

Here we go with the mythical 7% again. When asked for clarification of where this number comes from the silence is total. <snip>

OK, that changes everything....

[lildragon]

Did you make that in MS paint yourself Jamie?

[djjamie]

Here we go with the mythical 7% again. When asked for clarification of where this number comes from the silence is total. <snip>

OK, that changes everything....

It doesn't change anything my friend. You asked for clarification and out of respect i gave it to you.

Have a lovely evening.

[MZurf]

Here we go with the mythical 7% again. When asked for clarification of where this number comes from the silence is total. <snip>

OK, that changes everything....

It doesn't change anything my friend. You asked for clarification and out of respect i gave it to you.

Have a lovely evening.

Thank you so much - it's all clear to me now. That's really irrefutable evidence that you're right.

[lildragon]

It seems I have touched a nerve! It was just a bit of fun making Jamie. You posted a graph with absolutely no source to back it up, so I had a little fun at your expense. That does not make me this frothing at the mouth red shirt roaming around the wilderness of Khon Kaen wanting to feast on the bones of your children!

See that's hyperbole mixed with sarcasm, so many of your posts are laced with too much of the former!

[Rimmer]

A post has been removed:

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[metisdead]

A post containing an unattributed image has removed. Unless a reliable source proving this "UDD has 7% minority backing" theory can be supplied, don't bother posting this trolling nonsense. Don't bother, as this topic is not about the UDD anyway.

[heybruce]

A post containing an unattributed image has removed. Unless a reliable source proving this "UDD has 7% minority backing" theory can be supplied, don't bother posting this trolling nonsense. Don't bother, as this topic is not about the UDD anyway.

C'mon djjamie, tell this guy you have facts on your side and you don't have to provide sources!

[lildragon]

A post containing an unattributed image has removed. Unless a reliable source proving this "UDD has 7% minority backing" theory can be supplied, don't bother posting this trolling nonsense. Don't bother, as this topic is not about the UDD anyway.

C'mon djjamie, tell this guy you have facts on your side and you don't have to provide sources!

The old 7% routine just died a spectacular death on a thread that's not even about red shirts. Go figure!

[baboon]

A post containing an unattributed image has removed. Unless a reliable source proving this "UDD has 7% minority backing" theory can be supplied, don't bother posting this trolling nonsense. Don't bother, as this topic is not about the UDD anyway.

C'mon djjamie, tell this guy you have facts on your side and you don't have to provide sources!

The old 7% routine just died a spectacular death on a thread that's not even about red shirts. Go figure!

Not at all. He will just move on to another thread and ignore the fact this one ever happened.