Debate field is set: Trump, Bush in; Santorum, Fiorina out

[webfact]

Debate field is set: Trump, Bush in; Santorum, Fiorina out
By STEVE PEOPLES

CLEVELAND (AP) — Billionaire businessman Donald Trump will be front and center in the Republican Party's leadoff presidential debate, scoring the top spot in Thursday's prime-time faceoff where he'll be joined by former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and seven other White House hopefuls who made the campaign's first cut.

But it's a disappointing situation for seven other Republicans including former technology executive Carly Fiorina and former Texas Gov. Rick Perry, who will be relegated to a pre-debate forum and second-tier status in the party's crowded field.

Fox News on Tuesday announced the 10 GOP candidates who will take part in the debate at 9 p.m. EDT Thursday in the crucial swing state of Ohio.

Beyond Trump, those selected among the top 10 — based on recent national polls — include Bush, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and Ohio Gov. John Kasich.

Those who didn't qualify for the first debate include Fiorina, the GOP's only female presidential candidate, Perry, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, former New York Gov. George Pataki and former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore.

The announcement concludes an anxiety-filled process for a Republican Party that worked aggressively to improve its debates ahead of the election season. Yet with the largest field of contenders in modern memory, organizers say something had to give to ensure the debate in Cleveland didn't turn into a nationally televised circus.

"We never ever envisioned we'd have 17 major candidates," said Steve Duprey, New Hampshire's representative to the Republican National Committee who helped craft the debate plan. "There's no perfect solution."

Republican officials worked closely with TV executives, although the networks have the final say about which candidates will be allowed on stage for their televised events.

Fox News is the host of Thursday's event, the first of six party-sanctioned debates before primary voting begins in February.

Republican officials were particularly concerned about Fiorina's status, hoping she would help balance Hillary Rodham Clinton's push to rally women to her candidacy. Trump's recent surge in the polls was particularly damaging to Fiorina.

The reality television star's rapid rise has surprised many Republican officials, some of whom fear his rhetoric on immigration and other divisive issues could hurt the party. In a Tuesday interview, Trump said he's been defying expectations all his life.

"I think people are tired, they're sick and tired of incompetent politicians," he said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" when asked to explain his rise.

While Trump was far and away the front-runner in the five most recent national polls that determined the debate lineup, several candidates were grouped together in the single digits, most separated by a number smaller than the margin of error.

For example, in a Monmouth University survey released Monday, Kasich was the 10th candidate with the support of 3.2 percent of voters.

But after taking the margin of error into account, Monmouth noted that Kasich's support could be as low as 1.5 percent, while almost any of the candidates who polled lower could be that high or higher.

Monmouth found that only five candidates — Trump, Bush, Walker, Cruz and Huckabee — were definitely in the top tier of candidates, while just two —Pataki and Gilmore — would not make it into the top 10 even when margin of error was taken into account.

Some candidates looked at the polls on Tuesday, and then looked past the first debate and aimed for the second.

"This first debate is just one opportunity of many," Amy Frederick, an aide to Fiorina, wrote to supporters. "With many more debates to come, we fully expect that Carly will soon stand on the stage and show America what real leadership looks like."

Jindal spokeswoman Shannon Dirmann issued a challenge of sorts: "The governor will debate anyone anywhere at any time."

Candidates have already begun to turn their attention toward Trump, considered the ultimate wildcard on the debate stage.

Asked about Trump while courting religious conservatives on Tuesday, Bush said the businessman's rhetoric on immigrants is "wrong." ''We have a different tone and a different view," he said.

"I respect the fact that he's the front-runner for the Republican nomination," Bush continued. "This is a serious thing. But I think to win and govern the right way — we have to unite rather than divide."

Christie, in a television interview earlier in the day, called Trump his friend but suggested he'd be willing to challenge him if necessary.

"If I believe there is something that needs to be said on that stage Thursday night, I'll say it," Christie said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."
___

News Survey Specialist Emily Swanson in Washington and AP writer Eric Schelzig in Nashville, Tennessee, contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-08-05

[khwaibah]

The most anticipated reality tv show of the season.

[Somtamnication]

A given, since it was ordered by the Koch brothers.

[JDGRUEN]

Oh -- I forgot there is Jeb Bush ...

Jeb Bush is the Republican to vote for if you're really rather have a Democrat.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[JDGRUEN]

Very recent Poll Averages done prior to the last minute manipulations to squeeze John Kasich and Chris Christie in to the top ten. And with Christie that was a lot of squeezing .

Donald Trump 26%
Jeb Bush (12%)
Scott Walker (11%)
Ted Cruz (6%)
Mike Huckabee (6%)
Ben Carson (5%)
Chris Christie (4%)
Rand Paul (4%)
Marco Rubio (4%)
John Kasich (3%).
Carly Fiorina 2%
Rick Perry 2%
Bobby Jindal 1%
Rick Santorum 1%
Lindsey Graham 1%
George Pataki 1%
Jim Gilmore 1%

http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/67f674c8-fd4a-4a93-afbc-8b246a83da56.pdf

[JDGRUEN]

I can just see Jeb Bush in the Debates saying all sorts of apologetic mush mouth things...

From Politico.com ... amazing

Is JEB BUSH ANOTHER - Michael Dukakis?

Wonkish and mealy-mouthed, Jeb needs to start riling up his supporters—before Donald Trump wins them all over.


http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/jeb-bush-michael-dukakis-120945.html#ixzz3hrAOzahI

[noitom]

The republican circus kicks off. Can you imagine a pre-election debate in Thailand?

[webfact]

RELATED TOPIC:

Debate line-up illustrates power of Fox News in GOP campaign
By DAVID BAUDER

NEW YORK (AP) — Iowa and New Hampshire are still on the horizon — but first there's the Fox primary, and the buildup to this week's first Republican presidential debate shows that the influence of Fox News Channel on the GOP selection process is stronger than ever.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/845966-debate-line-up-illustrates-power-of-fox-news-in-gop-campaign/

[NeverSure]

And why not? Contrary to the would-be experts sometimes posting here, Fox News has more prime time viewers than CNN and MSNBC combined. It's viewership is growing especially among the 24 - 54 age group. Fox has led the prime time ratings for years.

Fox gets more prime time viewers in one day than the Huffington Post does in a week. Just because Fox isn't popular with the OP doesn't mean it isn't powerful already.

LINK

Cheers.

[Just1Voice]

I'm just sitting here chuckling at all those who said Trump didn't stand a chance in hell. Well, he might not in Hell, but he's doing a damn good job of leading in the U.S.

[sanuk711]

.

Trump went down really well on his last visit to Scotland..............................

Edited August 5, 2015 by sanuk711

[stevenl]

I'm surprised Carson got in over some better known rivals.

[quandow]

What we really want to see: Trump vs Sanders. They're both honest and have not been purchased by the Koch's. #feelthebern

[quandow]

I'm surprised Carson got in over some better known rivals.

I can't believe Christie got in over Perry.

People should really look at Sanders' voting record, note how consistently he's pushed for people over corporations, and understand he's a Democratic Socialist. Not the Communist of old. And PLEASE. if you CAN vote, DO vote!

[Jingthing]

Kasich.

The one to watch.

At the end of this debate, his numbers will go up 10 percent.

[Jingthing]

I'm surprised Carson got in over some better known rivals.

I can't believe Christie got in over Perry.

People should really look at Sanders' voting record, note how consistently he's pushed for people over corporations, and understand he's a Democratic Socialist. Not the Communist of old. And PLEASE. if you CAN vote, DO vote!

This topic is about the REPUBLICAN debates.

In other words, which elephant boy gets to get creamed by Hillary.

Sanders has peaked ... smell the red coffee.

Next ...

[7000gods]

Trump,Bush,Clinton....does it really make a blind bit of difference?

We all remember the famous Reagan /Merrill lynch moment - democracy is as dead in the US as it is in Europe and Asia.

[Chicog]

With the margin of error in these polls probably only the top five can say they deserve to be in the big clown show.

The ones that missed out will no doubt be very upset.

Some of them have books to sell.

Mind you, a lot of the coffin dodgers will be in bed by 9, so they might treat the 5pm matinee as the real deal.

[JDGRUEN]

I'm surprised Carson got in over some better known rivals.

I can't believe Christie got in over Perry.

People should really look at Sanders' voting record, note how consistently he's pushed for people over corporations, and understand he's a Democratic Socialist. Not the Communist of old. And PLEASE. if you CAN vote, DO vote!

This topic is about the REPUBLICAN debates.

In other words, which elephant boy gets to get creamed by Hillary.

Sanders has peaked ... smell the red coffee.

Next ...

So - what does Sanders and Hillary have to do with the Republican Debate?

[JDGRUEN]

Kasich.

The one to watch.

At the end of this debate, his numbers will go up 10 percent.

Kasich and Jeb Bush should go run in the Democrat Primary ... they need some choice over there and both these guys have a Democrat agenda... should fit well

[Jingthing]

Well, I suggest watching the debate and I'm sure that you'll hear references to their expected democratic opponent: HILLARY CLINTON.

She's not an elephant, like them, but still she will be the real big elephant in the room.

Which of them can beat her?

I think only Jeb Bush or Kasich have a chance.

[derator01]

A few off topic posts have been removed from view.

[MZurf]

Kasich.

The one to watch.

At the end of this debate, his numbers will go up 10 percent.

Kasich and Jeb Bush should go run in the Democrat Primary ... they need some choice over there and both these guys have a Democrat agenda... should fit well

Yes, yes we get it. You believe Jeb is a closet democrat. Now take a happy pill and move on before you bore us all to death.

[JDGRUEN]

The bottom end of the debate line up was political maneuvering buy the GOP/RNC RINO Group ... they needed someone with a quick retort to counter Trump. And Christie appeared even though his real polls numbers would not get him there without some last minute purchase B.S. polls.

Same with Kasich -- Governor of Ohio -- the GOP could not embarrass a Governor of the State where the debates were being held.

Kasich and Christie will be OUT of the Running by October / November if they last that long ....

Meaningless candidates.

[Jingthing]

As a democrat, I think it's wrong to characterize Kasich as a RINO. I know some are obsessed with his expanded Medicare decision in Ohio but when you look at his record and position on pretty much all the issues, he is firmly in the VERY RIGHT WING category. More so than Jeb Bush, that's for sure. No, not as extreme as Ted Cruz who you're welcome to nominate as the landslide against him would be fun to see. The appeal of Kasich is he has this safe and folksy quality that is capable of FOOLING a majority of the all important swing voters that he isn't as right wing as he really is. He can definitely beat Hillary and if republicans care about that, they should support him. Of course I hope they don't.

[JDGRUEN]

Kasich.

The one to watch.

At the end of this debate, his numbers will go up 10 percent.

Kasich and Jeb Bush should go run in the Democrat Primary ... they need some choice over there and both these guys have a Democrat agenda... should fit well

Yes, yes we get it. You believe Jeb is a closet democrat. Now take a happy pill and move on before you bore us all to death.

Go look at Jeb Bush's campaign platform --- then go look at Hillary's ... carbon copies ... Jeb Bush has a platform 180 degrees different from 55% of what the Republican electorate wants ... but it happens to be what the Democrat Lite GOP/RNC / U.S. Chamber of Commerce wants... at least what the Elitists of those entities want who are so out of touch with the voting electorate they wouldn't recognizing them if they stepped on them... OH ... that is what they do isn't it? 555

[JDGRUEN]

As a democrat, I think it's wrong to characterize Kasich as a RINO. I know some are obsessed with his expanded Medicare decision in Ohio but when you look at his record and position on pretty much all the issues, he is firmly in the VERY RIGHT WING category. More so than Jeb Bush, that's for sure. No, not as extreme as Ted Cruz who you're welcome to nominate as the landslide against him would be fun to see. The appeal of Kasich is he has this safe and folksy quality that is capable of FOOLING a majority of the all important swing voters that he isn't as right wing as he really is. He can definitely beat Hillary and if republicans care about that, they should support him. Of course I hope they don't.

5 -7 years back Kasich was very promising, but it did not take him long to succumb to the RINO practice of take on any political position to get reelected ... be everything to everyone ... His only saving grace is he is not as bad as Jeb Bush.

[MZurf]

Kasich.

The one to watch.

At the end of this debate, his numbers will go up 10 percent.

Kasich and Jeb Bush should go run in the Democrat Primary ... they need some choice over there and both these guys have a Democrat agenda... should fit well

Yes, yes we get it. You believe Jeb is a closet democrat. Now take a happy pill and move on before you bore us all to death.

Go look at Jeb Bush's campaign platform --- then go look at Hillary's ... carbon copies ... Jeb Bush has a platform 180 degrees different from 55% of what the Republican electorate wants ... but it happens to be what the Democrat Lite GOP/RNC / U.S. Chamber of Commerce wants... at least what the Elitists of those entities want who are so out of touch with the voting electorate they wouldn't recognizing them if they stepped on them... OH ... that is what they do isn't it? 555

Well, if 55% of the Republican electorate (BTW, where did you get that figure - Faux News?) want a far right wing candidate then they shouldn't complain when their candidate gets hammered come election day.

As they say in Thailand; som nam naa!

[Jingthing]

Realistically, republicans are not going to get the white house again if they insist on someone even further to the right than Kasich. I know some of them think Hillary is going to be easy pickings and they can win now with a far right extremist ... but they're tripping.

I think Kasich knows that and correctly perceives himself as a major player in this contest. But the tricky thing is that he has to convince the republicans that he is plenty right wing (which he is) while preserving his fake face of not being all that right wing for the general election. I don't know if he is skilled enough to pull that off, but maybe.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jingthing