Can My Thai Wife Inherit My UK State Pension?

[evadgib]

MILITARY PENSION

Could i also ask here, are the rules the same for my UK Military Pension

If i marry a Thai lady

Is she entitled to half my Pension when i go to heaven

Thanks

Covered in the pinned thread a few days ago. The annual newsletter sent at the beginning of the tax year explains.

HTH

[evadgib]

"From 6th April 2016, there will be no Bereavement Benefits for Thai wives/widows, unless they were resident in the UK at the time of husbands death..."

Can someone post the UK Government link which states the information above. Thanks.

In a 'worst case' scenario I cannot see why adult children etc cannot take their mothers back to UK <ie behave like a normal grieving family; Grandchildren an' all that >to fully exploit whatever would be on offer to a resident spouse who's partner died at the same time. This isn't 'something for nothing' to get SUN readers foaming; We've all paid for the full spectrum and should all be able to use it when the time comes...

Edited August 7, 2015 by evadgib

[Jip99]

If she hasn't paid N.I. why should she get anything

Totally irrelevant. The question isn't about her claiming in her own right - which is what her own NI contributions would facilitate - but a percentage of her husband's, which is based on his contributions. So, yes, she should be entitled to some ongoing pension in the event of his death, just as a British widow, who had also never paid her own NI contributions, would be. But I believe her age would then need to be upwards of 60, not 45, though I intend to check myself.

Please read the answers already provided.

There are NO inherited rights to state pensions for British, or Thai, widows. There are Bereavement benefits and these cease in April next year for widows not residing in the UK.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Jip99

[Jip99]

"From 6th April 2016, there will be no Bereavement Benefits for Thai wives/widows, unless they were resident in the UK at the time of husbands death..."

Can someone post the UK Government link which states the information above. Thanks.

In a 'worst case' scenario I cannot see why adult children etc cannot take their mothers back to UK to fully exploit whatever would be on offer to a resident spouse who's partner died at the same time. This isn't 'something for nothing' to get SUN readers foaming; we've all paid for the full spectrum and should all be able to use it when the time comes!

Do you not think that the UK government might apply some test of any residency claim ? How would said widow obtain a visa in the first place ?

"Going home to die" might be an interesting conundrum for terminally ill expats with time/energy to make the multitude of arrangements for their wives to live in the UK prior to their death.

By the way, this change was sneaked into the Pension Act.

[evadgib]

"From 6th April 2016, there will be no Bereavement Benefits for Thai wives/widows, unless they were resident in the UK at the time of husbands death..."

Can someone post the UK Government link which states the information above. Thanks.

In a 'worst case' scenario I cannot see why adult children etc cannot take their mothers back to UK to fully exploit whatever would be on offer to a resident spouse who's partner died at the same time. This isn't 'something for nothing' to get SUN readers foaming; we've all paid for the full spectrum and should all be able to use it when the time comes!

Do you not think that the UK government might apply some test of any residency claim ? How would said widow obtain a visa in the first place ?

"Going home to die" might be an interesting conundrum for terminally ill expats with time/energy to make the multitude of arrangements for their wives to live in the UK prior to their death.

By the way, this change was sneaked into the Pension Act.

Ideally residency wouldn't come into it. All they'd need is a marriage cert + the NI number of their late husbands.

(See Edit: I wasn't necessarily suggesting they stay indefinitely)

Edited August 7, 2015 by evadgib

[Boycie]

First reported over 2 years ago that it was all the Thai expats fault for marrying young brides that the benefits funds were potless!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/10040205/Rise-in-men-marrying-Thai-brides-behind-foreign-pensions-increase.html

[evadgib]

Gremlins Alert:

Something strange is happening to my posts this afternoon. If any appear unfinished, have gaps or make less sense than usual please be assured that whatever it is is beyond my control

Edited August 7, 2015 by evadgib

[Jip99]

"From 6th April 2016, there will be no Bereavement Benefits for Thai wives/widows, unless they were resident in the UK at the time of husbands death..."

Can someone post the UK Government link which states the information above. Thanks.

In a 'worst case' scenario I cannot see why adult children etc cannot take their mothers back to UK to fully exploit whatever would be on offer to a resident spouse who's partner died at the same time. This isn't 'something for nothing' to get SUN readers foaming; we've all paid for the full spectrum and should all be able to use it when the time comes!

Do you not think that the UK government might apply some test of any residency claim ? How would said widow obtain a visa in the first place ?

"Going home to die" might be an interesting conundrum for terminally ill expats with time/energy to make the multitude of arrangements for their wives to live in the UK prior to their death.

By the way, this change was sneaked into the Pension Act.

Ideally residency wouldn't come into it. All they'd need is a marriage cert + the NI number of their late husbands.

(See Edit: I wasn't necessarily suggesting they stay indefinitely)

I applaud the lateral thinking but I really can't believe it would be that simple.

In many cases the benefit will be limited to GBP 5,000 (or less) - up to GBP 10,000 if there are children. Not sure that too many Thai widows will be rushing to the UK to get their claims in.

[tajtom]

Hey

If she is Thai and from Isann I are sure she will find a way son

[MAJIC]

MILITARY PENSION

Could i also ask here, are the rules the same for my UK Military Pension

If i marry a Thai lady

Is she entitled to half my Pension when i go to heaven

Thanks

See my comments above regarding date of marriage to a Thai woman.

My experience with a widows army pension has not been good. Although she was married to her late husband for 7 years, the marriage took place after he ceased service in the army and was already in receipt of his army pension. Her widows pension was less than 15% of his. Not a happy lady, especially as her husband had assured her she would receive 50%

15% is considerably more than her own country would give her for a pension! they expect nothing much from the Thai Government, but huge payments from Foreign Governments!

[Jip99]

First reported over 2 years ago that it was all the Thai expats fault for marrying young brides that the benefits funds were potless!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/10040205/Rise-in-men-marrying-Thai-brides-behind-foreign-pensions-increase.html

I believe that article related to a wife (Brit or Thai) being eligible for a pension based on her husband's NI contributions - a ludicrous situation!

That has been stopped and EVERY individual's pension will be based solely on their own contributions.

However, that is not what the current discussion is about - that is about Bereavement Benefits (off a question about inheritance rights to a deceased's state pension).

Personally, I think it is parsimonious of the UK government to deny Thai (or elsewhere) -based widows what most regard as a 'death grant'.

It is equally parsimonious that my ex mother-in-law does not receive said benefit for my recently departed ex father-in-law because she is over pensionable age.

[Jip99]

MILITARY PENSION

Could i also ask here, are the rules the same for my UK Military Pension

If i marry a Thai lady

Is she entitled to half my Pension when i go to heaven

Thanks

See my comments above regarding date of marriage to a Thai woman.

My experience with a widows army pension has not been good. Although she was married to her late husband for 7 years, the marriage took place after he ceased service in the army and was already in receipt of his army pension. Her widows pension was less than 15% of his. Not a happy lady, especially as her husband had assured her she would receive 50%

15% is considerably more than her own country would give her for a pension! they expect nothing much from the Thai Government, but huge payments from Foreign Governments!

"They" don't expect anything and usually have no idea what might be available.

Any sums payable to a widow (irrespective of colour or creed) of a Brit are 'entitlements' bestowed by virtue of the deceased's national insurance contributions. An entitlement - not a benefit - that is now being denied to widows living outside the UK.

Occupational pensions are different and are determined by scheme rules and the decisions of the trustees. In many cases there is a basic 50% widows benefits (often reduced where there is a noticeable age difference).

[evadgib]

Jip99 said @38:

I applaud the lateral thinking but I really can't believe it would be that simple.

In many cases the benefit will be limited to GBP 5,000 (or less) - up to GBP 10,000 if there are children. Not sure that too many Thai widows will be rushing to the UK to get their claims in.

When coupled with the usual post-death formalities <less DC & funeral which presumably will happen here>required of an in-country spouse it isn't as far fetched as might appear at first glance.

[evadgib]

MILITARY PENSION

Could i also ask here, are the rules the same for my UK Military Pension

If i marry a Thai lady

Is she entitled to half my Pension when i go to heaven

Thanks

See my comments above regarding date of marriage to a Thai woman.

My experience with a widows army pension has not been good. Although she was married to her late husband for 7 years, the marriage took place after he ceased service in the army and was already in receipt of his army pension. Her widows pension was less than 15% of his. Not a happy lady, especially as her husband had assured her she would receive 50%

15% is considerably more than her own country would give her for a pension! they expect nothing much from the Thai Government, but huge payments from Foreign Governments!

You're missing the point; It's a Company Pension to which she is rightfully entitled & hasn't cost you the taxpayer a penny!

[evadgib]

First reported over 2 years ago that it was all the Thai expats fault for marrying young brides that the benefits funds were potless!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/10040205/Rise-in-men-marrying-Thai-brides-behind-foreign-pensions-increase.html

I believe that article related to a wife (Brit or Thai) being eligible for a pension based on her husband's NI contributions - a ludicrous situation!

That has been stopped and EVERY individual's pension will be based solely on their own contributions.

However, that is not what the current discussion is about - that is about Bereavement Benefits (off a question about inheritance rights to a deceased's state pension).

Personally, I think it is parsimonious of the UK government to deny Thai (or elsewhere) -based widows what most regard as a 'death grant'.

It is equally parsimonious that my ex mother-in-law does not receive said benefit for my recently departed ex father-in-law because she is over pensionable age.

I had to look that one up as I thought they were only to be found in the natural history museum

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parsimonious?s=t

Edited August 7, 2015 by evadgib

[huawei]

MILITARY PENSION

Could i also ask here, are the rules the same for my UK Military Pension

If i marry a Thai lady

Is she entitled to half my Pension when i go to heaven

Thanks

See my comments above regarding date of marriage to a Thai woman.

My experience with a widows army pension has not been good. Although she was married to her late husband for 7 years, the marriage took place after he ceased service in the army and was already in receipt of his army pension. Her widows pension was less than 15% of his. Not a happy lady, especially as her husband had assured her she would receive 50%

15% is considerably more than her own country would give her for a pension! they expect nothing much from the Thai Government, but huge payments from Foreign Governments!

"They" don't expect anything and usually have no idea what might be available.

Any sums payable to a widow (irrespective of colour or creed) of a Brit are 'entitlements' bestowed by virtue of the deceased's national insurance contributions. An entitlement - not a benefit - that is now being denied to widows living outside the UK.

Occupational pensions are different and are determined by scheme rules and the decisions of the trustees. In many cases there is a basic 50% widows benefits (often reduced where there is a noticeable age difference).

You are mistaken. I met a 40 something whose daughter worked in pattaya and she was looking for an older guy because she knew of the pension from a friend in her village. This was in 2002 in an Internet shop on second road opposite soi post office!! I was quite shocked..my thought was " how ridiculous that the benefit / pension system in the UK was known by a 40 something in a village from isaan!!

There is a thread on here about being cynical about Thailand..on such occasions it's hard not to be..but it is what it is..

[PETERTHEEATER]

I think it an absolute scandal that UK pensions do not transfer at least for a reasonable period of years to a spouse of any age. Typical of UK penny pinching and degrading of the benefit system. I mean they are pretty damn quick to strip people of their inheritance even though they are not living in the country.

And, whilst we take nothing from their welfare system, we still pay Income Tax and get no State Pension Increases when living in Thailand.

If you are paying UK income tax then you must be regarded as 'ordinarily resident' I have been expat 'not ordinarily resident' for over 45 years and am not liable for UK tax. But, my UK government pension is still frozen. There are downsides to non-residency. Cannot hold an on-shore bank account, cannot legally hold a UK Drivers Licence etc.

[PETERTHEEATER]

Coming back to the OP's pension question, I presume that your marriage to a Thai is validated with a Thai marriage certificate. If the marriage is registered formally in the UK under the Foreign Marriages Act (date?) then that may make a difference.

[huawei]

I think it an absolute scandal that UK pensions do not transfer at least for a reasonable period of years to a spouse of any age. Typical of UK penny pinching and degrading of the benefit system. I mean they are pretty damn quick to strip people of their inheritance even though they are not living in the country.

And, whilst we take nothing from their welfare system, we still pay Income Tax and get no State Pension Increases when living in Thailand.

If you are paying UK income tax then you must be regarded as 'ordinarily resident' I have been expat 'not ordinarily resident' for over 45 years and am not liable for UK tax. But, my UK government pension is still frozen. There are downsides to non-residency. Cannot hold an on-shore bank account, cannot legally hold a UK Drivers Licence etc.

No you pay income on income derived in the UK for example rental income, dividends, shares etc..anything above the yearly allowance us taxable.

The main benefit of being non resident ( for tax purposes) was the advantage of capital gains which has now been withdrawn,

I still have my bank account..

[angiolo]

I have made provision ,even though not married. \i made a will .my g/f gets a lump sum

IF I DIE BYE NATURALLY . Well I could be worth more DEAD

[Jip99]

See my comments above regarding date of marriage to a Thai woman.

My experience with a widows army pension has not been good. Although she was married to her late husband for 7 years, the marriage took place after he ceased service in the army and was already in receipt of his army pension. Her widows pension was less than 15% of his. Not a happy lady, especially as her husband had assured her she would receive 50%

15% is considerably more than her own country would give her for a pension! they expect nothing much from the Thai Government, but huge payments from Foreign Governments!

"They" don't expect anything and usually have no idea what might be available.

Any sums payable to a widow (irrespective of colour or creed) of a Brit are 'entitlements' bestowed by virtue of the deceased's national insurance contributions. An entitlement - not a benefit - that is now being denied to widows living outside the UK.

Occupational pensions are different and are determined by scheme rules and the decisions of the trustees. In many cases there is a basic 50% widows benefits (often reduced where there is a noticeable age difference).

You are mistaken. I met a 40 something whose daughter worked in pattaya and she was looking for an older guy because she knew of the pension from a friend in her village. This was in 2002 in an Internet shop on second road opposite soi post office!! I was quite shocked..my thought was " how ridiculous that the benefit / pension system in the UK was known by a 40 something in a village from isaan!!

There is a thread on here about being cynical about Thailand..on such occasions it's hard not to be..but it is what it is..

Few have been aware of what could have been their most valuable asset. As you are well aware, the sort of girls you are talking about are not renowned for their forward planning. Gold-digging based on NOW, most certainly, but evaluating the worth of of 50% of a GBP 30,000 occupational pension (possibly kicking in within a few years).

Almost 70,000 Baht a month (for life) is somewhat better than the average wage in Thailand.

The widows benefits were icing on the cake - especially if there was a young child (didn't have to be spawned by the Falang) where there was a potential 5,000 Baht+ per week until the child was 18-ish......

[lungbing]

Coming back to the OP's pension question, I presume that your marriage to a Thai is validated with a Thai marriage certificate. If the marriage is registered formally in the UK under the Foreign Marriages Act (date?) then that may make a difference.

No it doesn't. If the marriage is recognised in the country of origin then it's recognised as being valid in the UK and does not need to be registered in the UK.

A 'marriage' in the village performed by monks is more of a blessing than a marriage and is not recognised as a valid marriage. The marriage has to be registered at the amphur whereupon you get certificates.

Although I had retired from the company providing my pension before I married, I married my wife before I started drawing my pension from them. I have it in writing from them that she will get 50% of my pension when I die.

[Jip99]

Coming back to the OP's pension question, I presume that your marriage to a Thai is validated with a Thai marriage certificate. If the marriage is registered formally in the UK under the Foreign Marriages Act (date?) then that may make a difference.

That Act was repealed by Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013

Lungbing is spot on in that a legal marriage in Thailand is recognised by the UK authorities;.It is why they ask for copies of marriage certificates as part of any claims process.

[Jip99]

Coming back to the OP's pension question, I presume that your marriage to a Thai is validated with a Thai marriage certificate. If the marriage is registered formally in the UK under the Foreign Marriages Act (date?) then that may make a difference.

No it doesn't. If the marriage is recognised in the country of origin then it's recognised as being valid in the UK and does not need to be registered in the UK.

A 'marriage' in the village performed by monks is more of a blessing than a marriage and is not recognised as a valid marriage. The marriage has to be registered at the amphur whereupon you get certificates.

Although I had retired from the company providing my pension before I married, I married my wife before I started drawing my pension from them. I have it in writing from them that she will get 50% of my pension when I die.

I have the same confirmation. However, I am not married but the nomination for my long-term partner was accepted by the scheme trustees.They have confirmed she will get 45% of my pension (age difference adjusted).

Expats should check their own schemes, it could be the best legacy you leave your spouse/partner.

[PETERTHEEATER]

I think it an absolute scandal that UK pensions do not transfer at least for a reasonable period of years to a spouse of any age. Typical of UK penny pinching and degrading of the benefit system. I mean they are pretty damn quick to strip people of their inheritance even though they are not living in the country.

And, whilst we take nothing from their welfare system, we still pay Income Tax and get no State Pension Increases when living in Thailand.

If you are paying UK income tax then you must be regarded as 'ordinarily resident' I have been expat 'not ordinarily resident' for over 45 years and am not liable for UK tax. But, my UK government pension is still frozen. There are downsides to non-residency. Cannot hold an on-shore bank account, cannot legally hold a UK Drivers Licence etc.

No you pay income on income derived in the UK for example rental income, dividends, shares etc..anything above the yearly allowance us taxable.

The main benefit of being non resident ( for tax purposes) was the advantage of capital gains which has now been withdrawn,

I still have my bank account..

But I do have income from UK rental and claimed and was given relief from taxation by the 'taxman'

Having a UK bank account before becoming non-resident for tax purposes and not closing it is legal, I think, but try opening one without a legal UK residence.

A complicated subject and thread drifting so now, back to the OP

[Tony125]

If they don't live in the UK pay NI contributions then they shouldn't get anything. I eould not dream of trying to get a benefit of a state pension for my wife for when I'm gone. She has not paid in or ever lived there. They survived before they married us and will after we are gone.

Your country (UK) --------- ! In USA would make no difference if it is Social Security, private company or Government pension if married to wife (makes no difference nationality) for at least 10 years she would be entitled to spousal death benefits upon death of her husband. Wife would have not needed to work a day in her life or even lived in USA she would be receiving benefits because of her husbands contributions.

On my federal pension my wife will receive apoximately 2/3 of my pension when I pass plus any insurance I have taken out for her. If you Brits can't give spouse benefits when you pass you should try to have insurance to help her out unless your one of those calus individuals who figure " hey I'm dead I don't care what happens to my wife and kids"

[Jip99]

I think it an absolute scandal that UK pensions do not transfer at least for a reasonable period of years to a spouse of any age. Typical of UK penny pinching and degrading of the benefit system. I mean they are pretty damn quick to strip people of their inheritance even though they are not living in the country.

And, whilst we take nothing from their welfare system, we still pay Income Tax and get no State Pension Increases when living in Thailand.

If you are paying UK income tax then you must be regarded as 'ordinarily resident' I have been expat 'not ordinarily resident' for over 45 years and am not liable for UK tax. But, my UK government pension is still frozen. There are downsides to non-residency. Cannot hold an on-shore bank account, cannot legally hold a UK Drivers Licence etc.

No you pay income on income derived in the UK for example rental income, dividends, shares etc..anything above the yearly allowance us taxable.

The main benefit of being non resident ( for tax purposes) was the advantage of capital gains which has now been withdrawn,

I still have my bank account..

I think I am right in saying that there i no further liability to higher rate tax on UK dividends......

[ozyjon]

Thai wives of British subjects are no longer entitled to a state pension, unless they have earned it in their own right (ie working at some time in the UK and paying NI contributions

When a British subject dies, his Thai wife is CURRENTLY entitled to claim Bereavement Benefits. They are a £2000 lump sum, if children under 18/19 and still at school, a Widowed Parents Allowance, or if no children, a Bereavement Allowance based loosesly on the husbands NI contributions as long as the widow is over 45, and this is payable for just 1 year.

NOTE Where the husbands state pension was frozen, benefits are reduced.

From 6th April 2016, there will be no Bereavement Benefits for Thai wives/widows, unless they were resident in the UK at the time of husbands death.

The simple message to British farangs is:- If you are going to die, do it on or before 5th April 2016.

Here here, totally agree, if the Thai wife was allowed to receive the husbands

pension after his death,, i don't want to think about it but methinks many Thai

ladies would post on their internet dating site

''Looking to marry (hunsum or not) English man, if you are not English don't

write to me, if you are French, learn to speak English, and don't

write to me.''

Also the suicide rate for English guys would sky rocket,, will the Greeks read

this, ie; retirement age -50 years old, the majority of Greeks are on a pension,

Revised internet dating site heading,,,,

''Looking to marry (hunsum or not) English Greek man, if you are not English

Greek don't write to me, if you are French, learn to speak English, and don't

write to me.If you are Greek and don't speak English -learn- καταλαβαίνω.

''

[billd766]

If they don't live in the UK pay NI contributions then they shouldn't get anything. I eould not dream of trying to get a benefit of a state pension for my wife for when I'm gone. She has not paid in or ever lived there. They survived before they married us and will after we are gone.

Your country (UK) --------- ! In USA would make no difference if it is Social Security, private company or Government pension if married to wife (makes no difference nationality) for at least 10 years she would be entitled to spousal death benefits upon death of her husband. Wife would have not needed to work a day in her life or even lived in USA she would be receiving benefits because of her husbands contributions.

On my federal pension my wife will receive apoximately 2/3 of my pension when I pass plus any insurance I have taken out for her. If you Brits can't give spouse benefits when you pass you should try to have insurance to help her out unless your one of those calus individuals who figure " hey I'm dead I don't care what happens to my wife and kids"

Sadly many of us Brits trusted our government to do the right and moral thing regarding the death benefit but THEY changed the rules without any reference to spouses offshore however if you live in the UK it is given freely. It was foolish to trust ANY politician especially this lot in power in the UK at the present.

[Ghostnigel]

I think it an absolute scandal that UK pensions do not transfer at least for a reasonable period of years to a spouse of any age. Typical of UK penny pinching and degrading of the benefit system. I mean they are pretty damn quick to strip people of their inheritance even though they are not living in the country.

And, whilst we take nothing from their welfare system, we still pay Income Tax and get no State Pension Increases when living in Thailand.

True, I am not at pension age yet, but you and I paid our 'dues' into the pot all our lives, the same as expats in EU countries....but they get increases, but we do not, why is it ok for them, but not us? We all paid in the same %