Solar Power for my Home Air Condition, 1 Room only

[4jasmin]

dear community

my basic idea is to buy one of the smallest but modern units for a home aircondition

and buy the solar panels to power them

only 1 room needs to be cooled down during the day

I have yet no real idea, what components I will need and where to buy them in thailand

so I ask here for help

thanks for any answer and links

[Lite Beer]

Moved to the Electric Forum.

[AlexRRR]

I have seen here in AU an aircon and solar unit combination that powers it, no choice in make buying it that way, don't look like it was a big taker, here most people put a solar unit on the roof that power's the house.

There around but who knows if that sort of thing would be in in Thailand.

You would need solar panels cable and a converter, if only ever to run off solar and your handy you could do it yourself with some electrical knowledge but if you wanted mains back up you would need an electrician, find a solar provider and go from there.

[stoneyboy]

dear community

my basic idea is to buy one of the smallest but modern units for a home aircondition

and buy the solar panels to power them

only 1 room needs to be cooled down during the day

I have yet no real idea, what components I will need and where to buy them in thailand

so I ask here for help

thanks for any answer and links

Your idea is flawed,the majority of people in Thailand and globally run AC units from the mains electric supply.

When this cheaper,greener combination comes about do let me know.

[RKASA]

I have seen in Thai Mart a system that comes complete with the panels and the air. Turn key system they install. Takes one room off the grid - use ether a crowbar circuit that switches to the grid at night or add in batteries. At the time it didn't add up - buying the power was cheaper over the next 15 years or more. Maybe if you don't have power at all and go with batteries it would provide what you can't buy (the power).

[MRYANG]

I have recently bought a solar panel equipment from Amorn Electronics and have basic electrical knowledge. I assume you want to power an AirC somewhere you either don't have A/C or stable of the same. Nevertheless, this is what you need to run an AirC that uses 500W continous power for 5 hours and you have 8 hours of sun light:

First you need to know your total Wh. From above we have 500W x 5h = 2500Wh. This corresponds to two 1200Ah batteries that can deliver all the way down to 12V.

Then you need to charge the batteries. To charge the batteries full in 8 hours you need a total of 2500W/8 = 312.5W of effective solar power.

So materials would be:

3 x 120W solar panels (12000b)

1 x Charge regulator at 20A (buy for 30A if you want to expand in the future) 1500b

2 x Car batteries (if you buy more batteries, also buy more panels as uncharged batteries are useless 8000b

1 x 1000W continous Inverter 2500b

Total: 24k ex Aircon and cabling (but cables are cheap).

For better control I would get a charge controller with power meter and a volt meter for the batteries. This is cheap to buy on ebay - I bought several and shipping is quick and free.

Good luck.

Ps. Solar company staff knows zero unless you are very very lucky. I haven't.

[MRYANG]

Forum changed the baht-signs to emoticons automatically. But u get the drift

Edited August 14, 2015 by MRYANG

[Iamemjay]

I have tried to implement much simpler solar ideas (eg a solar powered gable fan) but have ended up giving up because the solar industry in Thailand is just so undeveloped. What exists is geared towards powering a whole remote village, not a single home and quite frankly, as regards the assistance I needed, even when I knew the components required, they were clueless. When it came to importing kits from overseas they wanted to hit me with substantial import duties because Thailand "has it's own solar industry". Ahhh!! So best of luck!

[IMHO]

I have tried to implement much simpler solar ideas (eg a solar powered gable fan) but have ended up giving up because the solar industry in Thailand is just so undeveloped. What exists is geared towards powering a whole remote village, not a single home and quite frankly, as regards the assistance I needed, even when I knew the components required, they were clueless. When it came to importing kits from overseas they wanted to hit me with substantial import duties because Thailand "has it's own solar industry". Ahhh!! So best of luck!

You're not googling right - there are many vendors for domestic solar products in Thailand.

Here's a start: https://www.google.co.th/search?q=จัดชุดระบบโซ่าเซล

Edited August 14, 2015 by IMHO

[AlexRRR]

dear community

my basic idea is to buy one of the smallest but modern units for a home aircondition

and buy the solar panels to power them

only 1 room needs to be cooled down during the day

I have yet no real idea, what components I will need and where to buy them in thailand

so I ask here for help

thanks for any answer and links

Your idea is flawed,the majority of people in Thailand and globally run AC units from the mains electric supply.

When this cheaper,greener combination comes about do let me know.

Your still living in the stone age, maybe it hasn't been taken up much in asia but in countries like Germany and the northern parts of Australia in particular but all over the country solar is very much alive and well and powering large chunks of the population, un used power is feed back into the grid, during bad weather or night time power is from the mains....the converter does all the work.

Tesla the electric sports car company are moving into the domestic market with battery packs for people who have solar, rather than feed back into the system they recharge the battery first obviously if you have the right amount of battery back up you could power all your energy needs for next to nothing after the initial purchase and insulation costs.

Is it cheap? of course not but it is getting cheaper all the time prices now for a roof top solar and battery back up would take anywhere from 10 to 15 years to recoup, roof top solar only about 5 to 7 ys to recoup energy costs in AU make it attractive, as for Thailand the market isn't there for it as yet.

The ops question makes a lot of sense but to answer you stone boy cheaper greener combination power is very much available so I'm letting you know.

[MRYANG]

I completely agree with AlexRRR, that solar power is coming very strong. Now, I have an addition to that as well.

Solar power and alternative power whether it is wind or water, is not only important but a key for the survival of our planet. Fossil fuel is an invisible mass-murderer and if people KNEW they would sacrifice their petrol powered cars in favour of electrical YESTERDAY. The problem is it is just like smoking and alcohol - killing you slowly and even though 99% of smokers KNOWS that smoking is bad for both you and your friends, colleagues and kids they still do it. The same goes with fossile fuel. What they can't see, they ignore.

Our ignorance today is our kids problem tomorrow.

[stoneyboy]

The ops question makes a lot of sense but to answer you stone boy cheaper greener combination power is very much available so I'm letting you know.

I'm fully aware of renewables I've worked on the largest wind farm in the UK.

The problem is that large oil companies and governments are not fully supportive of it,that's why the U.S. has now increased shale gas production.

Within the EU countries have to meet certain targets now hence the increase in renewables there.

With countries like China and the U.S. Continuing to belch out fumes from Coal fired power stations and unwilling to commit to this newer greener energy nothing in the short term is going to change.

A few people shoving solar panels on their roofs to power the odd AC unit isn't going to make one bit of difference.

The technology is available we all know that.

[MRYANG]

I got some questions so this is a clarification to my calculations earlier:

Electric energy is very easy to learn and I will prove it with this short explanation.

1. Electrical energy is simply electrons moving. When electrons move, they will build up "motion energy" which we call electric energy. Electrons move everywhere around us, not just in a copper cable. Thus, electrical energy is 100% around us all the time and freely available.

2. Imagine an electrical flow as the water coming out from a garden hose. Then the;

Area of the hose = Total electrons available for area = Voltage (V)

Water pressure = The force of the electrical current = Amp (A)

Flow rate as area of hose x the water pressure = V x A = Watt (W)

Flow rate per hour = Watt x Hours = Watt Hours = Wh

The total amount of water delivered through the hose is the electrical energy we want. So we always needs to calculate Voltage, Amp and Time together. (Everything in electric is based on these three units more or less.)

NOTE: Ampere is what kills you and your equipment. Ampere is what makes cables hot or burned. The reason why 220V is better than 110V is that 220V needs half the amp to deliver the same energy.

3. WATT HOURS (Wh) is the Most important thing you need to focus on when it comes to electrical energy because this is what you will get.

Solar panel => Watt delivered per hour gives you Wh. So a panel that delivers 100W out will give you 100Wh for every hour.

Battery => Amphours x Volt gives you Wh. 100A car battery at 12V gives you 1200Wh. A solar panel that gives 100W out needs 12 hours to charge this battery 100%.

MYTHBUSTER: Most of you have surely seen battery packs, such as Mobile Power Banks and such, which are specified as milli-Amp hours (mAh). From the knowledge above, we know that 1 billion Amp hours is completely useless unless we know the voltage.

4. For every thousand per unit we can write kilo instead ("k") instead, so kV, kA, kW, kWh so forth. 1kV is just a shorter way to write 1000V.

5. While electrical energy is cheap to retrieve, it is expensive to store. Even a 100Ah 12V car battery that costs 4000B can only hold energy comparable to power a fridge half day (1200Wh stored capacity, fridge 100W per hour, thus 12 hours of continuos operation).

- Lithium Ion batteries are about twice as efficient per kilo battery density as traditional Lead-Acid batteries.

- The most effective batteries in the world are RTG-batteries. However, they cost about 1 million dollars/gram and currently only used by NASA and alike.

6. The future of electric is when we can bypass batteries altogether for either wireless transmission or harnessing electrical energy from the space around us. Earth is basically a giant battery in itself because of the ionosphere around the earth holds all electrons we need to power anything. This technology exists but is hidden from us - free energy is dangerous to the world because it makes man independent forever.

I urge anyone to start experimenting with alternative energy as soon as possible. OUR future depends on it!

Edited August 16, 2015 by MRYANG

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

dear community

my basic idea is to buy one of the smallest but modern units for a home aircondition

and buy the solar panels to power them

only 1 room needs to be cooled down during the day

I have yet no real idea, what components I will need and where to buy them in thailand

so I ask here for help

thanks for any answer and links

Your idea is flawed,the majority of people in Thailand and globally run AC units from the mains electric supply.

When this cheaper,greener combination comes about do let me know.

Your still living in the stone age, maybe it hasn't been taken up much in asia but in countries like Germany and the northern parts of Australia in particular but all over the country solar is very much alive and well and powering large chunks of the population, un used power is feed back into the grid, during bad weather or night time power is from the mains....the converter does all the work.

Tesla the electric sports car company are moving into the domestic market with battery packs for people who have solar, rather than feed back into the system they recharge the battery first obviously if you have the right amount of battery back up you could power all your energy needs for next to nothing after the initial purchase and insulation costs.

Is it cheap? of course not but it is getting cheaper all the time prices now for a roof top solar and battery back up would take anywhere from 10 to 15 years to recoup, roof top solar only about 5 to 7 ys to recoup energy costs in AU make it attractive, as for Thailand the market isn't there for it as yet.

The ops question makes a lot of sense but to answer you stone boy cheaper greener combination power is very much available so I'm letting you know.

I think what he was saying was that at present solar electricity don't make financial sense in Thailand. The cost of the hardware are too expensive compared to the grid electricity cost.For example the quote we got to convert our home to solar was B 800 k. Our monthly electrcity bill is B 5000 so the straight comparison is 160 months (B 800 k / B 5 k)before we breakeven on our capital outlay. But the life span of the system is 10 years = 120 months. Which means you can never breakeven, even if you exclude the opportunity cost of B 20 k on your B 800 k capital outlay. To put it another way the cost of the system is B 800 k divided by 10 years = B 80 k per year plus the opportunity cost (lost interest on B 800 k) of B 20 k = B 100 k per year total cost, compared to B 60 k for grid electricity (B 500 x 12 months). We would have lost B 40 k per year by converting to solar. The other major problem is what they do with the depleted batteries coming from the solar system - it is dumped on a landfill which creates more enviromental hazards that what it solves.

[Crossy]

Solar is certainly viable if you go grid-tie, no batteries to replace, break-even at 7 years or so.

Of course there's no bridge over power cuts due to the inverter's island protection.

[sammygood]

it might work for a fan, but an airco is at least 1000 kwH ...

[slipperylobster]

Might just as well use the sun to heat water for hot showers/laundry..no panels/electricity used.

Also, put one of those turbine vents on your roof, which spin with the rising heat...to cool your house.

I would only use stored energy (batteries replenished by solar) for small LED lights and an exhaust fan (perhaps for the bathroom and/or kitchen)

The combination of all the above, would really cut down on your electrical use and help compensate the cost for your air conditioning (for one room).

Just a cheaper solution.

Edited August 16, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Crossy]

Some information on running aircon from inverters, note this is US (115V) data so the currents should be halved for 220V (Watts don't change).

http://www.oksolar.com/technical/running_air-conditioners_on_inverters.htm

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Solar is certainly viable if you go grid-tie, no batteries to replace, break-even at 7 years or so.

Of course there's no bridge over power cuts due to the inverter's island protection.

Can you grid tie here ? We asked PEA in our area about it and the dail came up blank. The problem is that our house only are fully used when the children come to visit once a year and for that we need a big solar system, if we can grid tie we can scale down on the solar system to a level where it would meet our daily needs for 11 months of the year.

[Crossy]

Yes, you can grid tie, there are a number of threads in this forum.

What you cannot do, unless you sign up for the (occasionally available) My Solar Roof arrangement is sell power to the grid, minimum bill is zero.

Look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/837457-solar-installation/

[laobali]

I have recently bought a solar panel equipment from Amorn Electronics and have basic electrical knowledge. I assume you want to power an AirC somewhere you either don't have A/C or stable of the same. Nevertheless, this is what you need to run an AirC that uses 500W continous power for 5 hours and you have 8 hours of sun light:

First you need to know your total Wh. From above we have 500W x 5h = 2500Wh. This corresponds to two 1200Ah batteries that can deliver all the way down to 12V.

Then you need to charge the batteries. To charge the batteries full in 8 hours you need a total of 2500W/8 = 312.5W of effective solar power.

So materials would be:

3 x 120W solar panels (12000b)

1 x Charge regulator at 20A (buy for 30A if you want to expand in the future) 1500b

2 x Car batteries (if you buy more batteries, also buy more panels as uncharged batteries are useless 8000b

1 x 1000W continous Inverter 2500b

Total: 24k ex Aircon and cabling (but cables are cheap).

For better control I would get a charge controller with power meter and a volt meter for the batteries. This is cheap to buy on ebay - I bought several and shipping is quick and free.

Good luck.

Ps. Solar company staff knows zero unless you are very very lucky. I haven't.

Unless I'm way out of date, a small aircon unit (8000btu) draws about 1200W and needs double that to start up. 500W wouldn't power much more than a fan, so more like a 3000W inverter needed and several deep cycle batteries.

[AlexRRR]

The ops question makes a lot of sense but to answer you stone boy cheaper greener combination power is very much available so I'm letting you know.

I'm fully aware of renewables I've worked on the largest wind farm in the UK.

The problem is that large oil companies and governments are not fully supportive of it,that's why the U.S. has now increased shale gas production.

Within the EU countries have to meet certain targets now hence the increase in renewables there.

With countries like China and the U.S. Continuing to belch out fumes from Coal fired power stations and unwilling to commit to this newer greener energy nothing in the short term is going to change.

A few people shoving solar panels on their roofs to power the odd AC unit isn't going to make one bit of difference.

The technology is available we all know that.

The revolution has begun, here in AU even after the current government has killed off the grants and subsides for renewable energy the cost of electricity in particular and gas is making it economic sense for individuals to power them selves, battery back up is just around the corner, if we took the lead like the state of California did in regards to implementing emissions control to the car companies by legislating for all new homes and renovations above a certain cost to install a solar system within a short time AU could halve there energy consumption, before you say its pie in the sky, here in the last 10 ys they have legislated for all new homes and additions to meet first a 5 star energy rating and now its been increased to 6, i think its just a matter of time, the winds of change once they begin start to move quickly.

Here you can drive down any street and you will see panels on roofs because power is getting expensive.

Economics comes into it, i to was thinking along the lines of the opp when i move there, once you stop earning and start living off what you got how you spend your money becomes just that little bit more inprotant.

[Travel Dude]

it might work for a fan, but an airco is at least 1000 kwH ...

1000 KWh = 1,000,000 watt. Not too sure you are right.

[denby45]

I got some questions so this is a clarification to my calculations earlier:

Electric energy is very easy to learn and I will prove it with this short explanation.

1. Electrical energy is simply electrons moving. When electrons move, they will build up "motion energy" which we call electric energy. Electrons move everywhere around us, not just in a copper cable. Thus, electrical energy is 100% around us all the time and freely available.

2. Imagine an electrical flow as the water coming out from a garden hose. Then the;

Area of the hose = Total electrons available for area = Voltage (V)

Water pressure = The force of the electrical current = Amp (A)

Flow rate as area of hose x the water pressure = V x A = Watt (W)

Flow rate per hour = Watt x Hours = Watt Hours = Wh

The total amount of water delivered through the hose is the electrical energy we want. So we always needs to calculate Voltage, Amp and Time together. (Everything in electric is based on these three units more or less.)

NOTE: Ampere is what kills you and your equipment. Ampere is what makes cables hot or burned. The reason why 220V is better than 110V is that 220V needs half the amp to deliver the same energy.

3. WATT HOURS (Wh) is the Most important thing you need to focus on when it comes to electrical energy because this is what you will get.

Solar panel => Watt delivered per hour gives you Wh. So a panel that delivers 100W out will give you 100Wh for every hour.

Battery => Amphours x Volt gives you Wh. 100A car battery at 12V gives you 1200Wh. A solar panel that gives 100W out needs 12 hours to charge this battery 100%.

MYTHBUSTER: Most of you have surely seen battery packs, such as Mobile Power Banks and such, which are specified as milli-Amp hours (mAh). From the knowledge above, we know that 1 billion Amp hours is completely useless unless we know the voltage.

4. For every thousand per unit we can write kilo instead ("k") instead, so kV, kA, kW, kWh so forth. 1kV is just a shorter way to write 1000V.

5. While electrical energy is cheap to retrieve, it is expensive to store. Even a 100Ah 12V car battery that costs 4000B can only hold energy comparable to power a fridge half day (1200Wh stored capacity, fridge 100W per hour, thus 12 hours of continuos operation).

- Lithium Ion batteries are about twice as efficient per kilo battery density as traditional Lead-Acid batteries.

- The most effective batteries in the world are RTG-batteries. However, they cost about 1 million dollars/gram and currently only used by NASA and alike.

6. The future of electric is when we can bypass batteries altogether for either wireless transmission or harnessing electrical energy from the space around us. Earth is basically a giant battery in itself because of the ionosphere around the earth holds all electrons we need to power anything. This technology exists but is hidden from us - free energy is dangerous to the world because it makes man independent forever.

I urge anyone to start experimenting with alternative energy as soon as possible. OUR future depends on it!

Area of the hose = Total electrons available for area = Voltage (V)

Water pressure = The force of the electrical current = Amp (A)

Flow rate as area of hose x the water pressure = V x A = Watt (W)

Flow rate per hour = Watt x Hours = Watt Hours = Wh

I know you are trying to simplify but sorry I find your analogy most misleading.

Voltage is similar to pressure (psi) for a start and not area.

electrical current (coulombs per sec = amperes) would then be the similar to flow rate (liters per min/sec) based on the pressure (voltage) and area (resistance) of the transmission line.

Den

[MRYANG]

I know this is going to sound controversial, and I know you have read the WIKIPEDIA explanation, but to think water pressure as Voltage is basically wrong. Why?

Because when thinking about electricity as a FORCE, comparing the cross area of the hose as ampere doesn't really logically converse - Simply because it is the PRESSURE of the water aimed towards you that represents the flow rate of the electrical charge, i.e the CURRENT, hence named CURRENT.

Now, I don't want to argue Wikipedia and 1000 scientists, and people are free to adapt to any analogy they want - but I want to stress that when working with electric, my version makes more sense when it comes to thinking about the power and the associated dangers with electrical, rather than the Wikipedia version.

Maybe I should have put it:

AREA of HOSE = VOLT = NOT DANGEROUS

FLOW OF WATER = PRESSURE = CURRENT = DANGEROUS (meaning, when the water is ON).

If you read the technical definition of Volt, then you could actually imagine Volt as the "potential" energy, i.e, what energy that CAN be transferred, so again - in the water hose analogy, it means, that 1 m2 of hose area pointed towards you CAN be a very serious threat, but you must pull the lever ON to actually be in any danger (CURRENT, Ampere).

I stand by my opinion that the general explanation of this, as described in WIKIPEDIA is FLAWED.

Edited August 16, 2015 by MRYANG

[gigman]

As far one of fellow's here mentioned this right.... Yes you can power your fan not 1000W air con.

Solar power can help reducing your bill but do not believe that 4 or even 6 panels can power your average small air con.

Small air con. take at least 1200W but it must have strong "kick" current power .

Just imagine: average solar panel can deliver around 200w in full sun ....hence you need at least 8 of them and inverter .

Do you have enough space to keep 8 panels?.....on the roof?

if sun is not strong your power drop to half dramatically .....

If you use off grid system it will cost you a different inverter plus expensive batteries. Batteries will take over when sun stop working....what about at night???? you must have a lot of batteries to keep going your aircon. for 2 to 3 hours at night. .

Solar power is also expensive and need a lot of years to repay itself.

It is good idea to have it at home when you are most of time away from home and if government is giving you back your money for delivering power to the system '' On grid'' but to just employ this as a source od power to aircon is just nonsens in both situations...costs and technical .

I am electromechanic and tried everything to be off grid using realy good quality panels but ....sorry it is very costly business to run air con even small one .

On top of it dont forget that your new solar panel will not deliver same amount of energy all the time specialy they loose power with age very quickly too..

If you could use wind power it is much better but still costs and space for it not to mention must have batteries if no wind.....

[jacko45k]

I have recently bought a solar panel equipment from Amorn Electronics and have basic electrical knowledge. I assume you want to power an AirC somewhere you either don't have A/C or stable of the same. Nevertheless, this is what you need to run an AirC that uses 500W continous power for 5 hours and you have 8 hours of sun light:

First you need to know your total Wh. From above we have 500W x 5h = 2500Wh. This corresponds to two 1200Ah batteries that can deliver all the way down to 12V.

Then you need to charge the batteries. To charge the batteries full in 8 hours you need a total of 2500W/8 = 312.5W of effective solar power.

So materials would be:

3 x 120W solar panels (12000b)

1 x Charge regulator at 20A (buy for 30A if you want to expand in the future) 1500b

2 x Car batteries (if you buy more batteries, also buy more panels as uncharged batteries are useless 8000b

1 x 1000W continous Inverter 2500b

Total: 24k ex Aircon and cabling (but cables are cheap).

For better control I would get a charge controller with power meter and a volt meter for the batteries. This is cheap to buy on ebay - I bought several and shipping is quick and free.

Good luck.

Ps. Solar company staff knows zero unless you are very very lucky. I haven't.

How is the system working out?

I wonder because car batteries are designed for high initial amps and low level discharges which is not the case in this application. Also the AH rating is often specified for a particular current, obviously a value that produces the highest number, and when drained at a different level can be somewhat less. I was thinking deep cycle batteries would be more suitable.

[etsllc]

Hi,
Here are some links for a few Solar companies in Thailand.


WWW.abotrading.co.th

Www.north11smartpower.com

Good Luck !

Edited August 17, 2015 by etsllc

[pkspeaker]

if sun is not strong your power drop to half dramatically...

bad news solar panel fans, the dalton/maunder minimums are here, that means more clouds to screw up your solar panel energy production, i would go with wind, at least for the next 50 years until the sun comes back.

[IMHO]

if sun is not strong your power drop to half dramatically...

bad news solar panel fans, the dalton/maunder minimums are here, that means more clouds to screw up your solar panel energy production, i would go with wind, at least for the next 50 years until the sun comes back.

I don't have solar PV, but I can say that my pool water temps are at an equal all-time-high (34c - too hot for swimming, time to erect some shade) and my solar hot water systems are still putting out so much hot water you have to mix them with about 90% cold water.

I think Thai solar PV installs are pretty safe, now and for the next 50 years