Knee joint pain

[Tywais]

5-6 weeks ago I got out of bed and had some pain in my knee joint, probably 2-3 out of 10 so just uncomfortable but not limiting. A couple of days later I felt pressure build up like it was swollen or fluid in the joint. A few days later it went away as did the pain. However, my knee clicked/popped when I walked and worse climbing stairs.

Now Friday, the pain was suddenly back when I got up and got worse during the day to around 5 out of 10 pain level to the point of nearly limping. Later that evening the swelling or pressure was back, not visible externally though, and the area was warm to the touch like a fever. I've been taking Tylenol for the pain but doesn't seem to help or else it is and without it the pain would be greater. I plan to schedule to see an orthopedist, I assume that is the correct doctor to see, but it won't be until next week. Anything I can do in the meantime to reduce the pain and pressure?

BTW, nothing physically I did such as over extend it, hit it or exercise, it just came up suddenly.

[NickJ]

Lots of varibles with knee problems. Age , weight and history to start. It takes almost time to figure out the general problem with an exam. Osteoarthritis, Bursitis; Then ligaments to rule out.

Doest take much to injure a knee either.

With osteo it starts and the episodes become more frequent . An MRI is the best to see tears in soft tissue. For osteo plain xray will show it as well with diminished joint space. Diclofenac helps at first. as does added support and proper footware.

[h90]

Scary......knee problems without apparent reason...

you can apply something like Tiger Balm (several different similar products, or also western products with medication inside), it may help a bit with the pain. But in my opinion it is just placebo effect.

Good luck....maybe it disappears without reason the same as it appeared.

[h90]

Btw: If the orthopedist recommends something dramatic like surgery, don't agree before you took a second, third opinion.

[Lantern]

Tiger Balm. Can't do any harm to try.

It's what I use.

[sabaijai]

From the description of your symptoms -- and obviously only a specialist and imaging can tell you for sure -- it does sound like osteoarthritis, where the cartilage in your knee simply wears away until bone meets bone in the knee joint. That would be the source of the clicking.

I started having the same symptoms myself about a year ago. First only in the left knee, and in the last month or two, also the right knee. I went to St Louis Hopsital and with xrays and questioning they diagnosed osteoarthritis. One of the best suggestions I received from the specialist is not to avoid walking, because long periods of sitting or lying down tend to increase stiffness and pain. Experience seems to bear that out, ie, the more I walk, the less it hurts. Your mileage may vary of course and your doctor may have a different opinion. He also recommended swimming and other low-impact exercise to strengthen the knee, but I have already been a daily swimmer for 20+ years. I notice if I'm unable to swim for several days, due to travel or illness, my knees hurt more, so it does seem to make a real difference, at least in my case.

Dancing is the one activity I've had to give up almost entirely. I've always loved to dance but I notice now that after a night on a club floor, both knees hurt a lot the next day. Sometimes I get carried away and dance anyway, but I pay for it the next day or two.

I went to see the specialist again this week because I'm planning to trek for three days around Mount Kailash in Tibet next month. I asked for his opinion on how my knees will hold up. He said I should be ok as long as I don't over-exert myself, so I'm sticking with the plan. I'll carry a supply of ibuprofen, which I find is very helpful in controlling the pain and reducing inflammation in the knee.

There are certain invasive therapies for osteo if the pain advances too much. You can google them, but basically the choice seems to be cortisone injections - which carry with them their own risk, as I understand -- and artificial knee replacement, for which there's a six-month recovery. I hope I never have to do either.

[Tywais]

Thanks for the info. Osteoarthritis is what my web search suggests also. Just odd how it just came on suddenly rather than develop over time. It's my right knee and noticed that there is tenderness to finger pressure to the right of my leg around the tendon but that could simply be due to inflammation. My weight is fine, exactly in the middle of the healthy range for my height/age/sex. But yes, getting older and guess it's time to expect these aches and pains.

I had also planned on going on a trip to Siem Reap and area after my WP renewal next month and hope it will improve. Will pick up some ibuprofen as Tylenol doesn't seem to be helping much.

[MaeJoMTB]

At your age almost certainly arthritis.

[h90]

Thanks for the info. Osteoarthritis is what my web search suggests also. Just odd how it just came on suddenly rather than develop over time. It's my right knee and noticed that there is tenderness to finger pressure to the right of my leg around the tendon but that could simply be due to inflammation. My weight is fine, exactly in the middle of the healthy range for my height/age/sex. But yes, getting older and guess it's time to expect these aches and pains.

I had also planned on going on a trip to Siem Reap and area after my WP renewal next month and hope it will improve. Will pick up some ibuprofen as Tylenol doesn't seem to be helping much.

I had once, at 25 knee pain without obvious reason for 6 month.....only a cortisone injection (not in the knee itself) fixed it and it never came again the next 20 years.

Some tendon got inflammation for no reason (beside having cold.....but which knee doesn't in the alps).

So I wouldn't expect the worst.....it might be just some minor problem.....Searching on the internet brings a lot results that are worse than the real situation....so don't get desperate by reading horrible stories

I almost died according to the internet.....but in fact it was nothing

[Sheryl]

A rather abrupt onset for arthritis (though at your age you no doubt will have some wearing of the cartilege as well as whatever else may be going on). But it will take an ortho to tell. The best IMO for knee issues is Dr. Panya at Bumrungrad.

In the meantime until you can see an otrtho, follow RICE:

R = Rest the joint to the extent practical, and especially avoid anything that worsens the pain or the swelling

I = apply Ice/cold packs

C = Compression: wrap with ace bandage or one of those knee support wraps you can get at a pharmacy

E = Elevation. When possible, elevate the knee above the level of the heart, for example if watching TV, put your leg up on cushions.

If you have no contraindications to it (such as gastritis or being on an anticoagulant) could also take an NSAID like diclfenac, ibuprofen etc

[h90]

Going back near 20 years I had the same thing. My friend at the time was a consultant in the field. Anyhooo, we do this first, he stuck a big needle in my knee, fished around and pulled out a lot of water...Hmmm, nice and clear, he said, see how you go....It was better but not good...So, had a scan to reveal a cart ledge had a problem..They operated on it (key hole) and it has been fine ever since...Yeh I do have Psoriatic Arthritis but they thought there was no link..

I know 2 cases with minor problems, they stuck a needle in it and infected the knee=big problems....

[nowretired]

Sorry about the knee ............

In the absence of trauma there are two possible causes

1. A degenerative disease process (arthritis including gout !)

2. An infective process . If the knee is swollen and hot then urgent medical advice should be sought.

If 2. is not applicable the advice given by Sheryl is good and will see you ok until you see a Dr.

[thrilled]

9 out of 10 it's bone against bone.Go to A knee specialist.More than likely you'll need A new knee.

[Bosse137]

3 days ago,I experiensed exactly the same.Woke up in the morning and could almost not walk! I am 72,exercise every day and am in a good trim. I put on a warm pack and took some diclofenac.Almost ok.next morning, Then got worse againToday,I went to a clinic and asked for a cortisoninjection.Now,almost ok.Inflammation said the doctor.BTW,I too have these sounds from the knees in the morning.I walk,the sound get bigger and bigger and then snaps and everything alright...About cortison;I`ve have had LOTS of them everywhere in the body;no problem!

[h90]

Going back near 20 years I had the same thing. My friend at the time was a consultant in the field. Anyhooo, we do this first, he stuck a big needle in my knee, fished around and pulled out a lot of water...Hmmm, nice and clear, he said, see how you go....It was better but not good...So, had a scan to reveal a cart ledge had a problem..They operated on it (key hole) and it has been fine ever since...Yeh I do have Psoriatic Arthritis but they thought there was no link..

I know 2 cases with minor problems, they stuck a needle in it and infected the knee=big problems....

Sure, but my chum was professor of Rheumatology at Kings College, London...

The stories I know is one general doc on the countryside and military hospital (these are in my country the doctors no one want to have)

[Pinot]

One thing you can do is stop taking Tylenol, switch to ibuprofen. A heavy dose is 2400 mg a day. That would be the equivalent of 3 Motrins a day. That will help with the pain and reduce inflammation. No one should be taking Tylenol. Aspirin is better but may irritate the stomach. Doesn't seem to bother me.

Use the RICE method as indicated above. Start with an xray and possibly an ultrasound (expense).

Could be gout. I don't hear of it in the knee often but who knows?

Thai doctors are usually terrible. Try to get a specialist. Two opinions if they recommend something invasive.

[DogNo1]

Concur. Tylenol in large sustained doses can damage the liver. Diclofenac works for me but I try to not take it regularly because it taxes the kidneys. Good luck with your knee. Let us know what happens.

[xylophone]

Could be a number of causes, some of which are listed above, however if you have played sport at sometime in your life, there is potentially another answer, or two for that matter!

Have had a similar occurrence on my knees over the years due to bits of floating cartilage in the knee joint, caused by wear and tear after many years of playing football and tennis. In addition to this bone spurs can occur, again, if pressure is put on the knee joint from the likes of any sport played over the years.

Certainly Ibuprofen will help because of its anti-inflammatory effects, and seeing an orthopaedic surgeon/specialist would also help.

I have a friend who has a similar problem after years of playing football, and although his knee only occasionally aches, he is convinced he needs a knee replacement!!!! I for one would consider this the absolute last thing I would do if I had pain in the knees unless I got to the point whereby I couldn't walk.

I did have a couple of injections of "Synvisc" in a problem joint, from the specialist a few years back and that did the trick.

Good luck with whatever you do and keep us updated please!

[Tywais]

Could be a number of causes, some of which are listed above, however if you have played sport at sometime in your life, there is potentially another answer, or two for that matter!

Have had a similar occurrence on my knees over the years due to bits of floating cartilage in the knee joint, caused by wear and tear after many years of playing football and tennis. In addition to this bone spurs can occur, again, if pressure is put on the knee joint from the likes of any sport played over the years.

Certainly Ibuprofen will help because of its anti-inflammatory effects, and seeing an orthopaedic surgeon/specialist would also help.

I have a friend who has a similar problem after years of playing football, and although his knee only occasionally aches, he is convinced he needs a knee replacement!!!! I for one would consider this the absolute last thing I would do if I had pain in the knees unless I got to the point whereby I couldn't walk.

I did have a couple of injections of "Synvisc" in a problem joint, from the specialist a few years back and that did the trick.

Good luck with whatever you do and keep us updated please!

Thanks. As for sports yes, I played racquetball daily for many years in my mid 30's to 40's. I was very good at it and as such played with top players which meant very aggressive playing, fast starts/stops etc. Lot of pounding and twisting of the joints.

Still waiting for acknowledgment of my Dr. appointment request, they're usually much more responsive so will send it off again in case it got lost.

@Sheryl FYI, I'm trying to see Dr. Piboon at Chiang Mai Ram as he has been highly recommended by several CM members.

[Valentine]

Could be a number of causes, some of which are listed above, however if you have played sport at sometime in your life, there is potentially another answer, or two for that matter!

Have had a similar occurrence on my knees over the years due to bits of floating cartilage in the knee joint, caused by wear and tear after many years of playing football and tennis. In addition to this bone spurs can occur, again, if pressure is put on the knee joint from the likes of any sport played over the years.

Certainly Ibuprofen will help because of its anti-inflammatory effects, and seeing an orthopaedic surgeon/specialist would also help.

I have a friend who has a similar problem after years of playing football, and although his knee only occasionally aches, he is convinced he needs a knee replacement!!!! I for one would consider this the absolute last thing I would do if I had pain in the knees unless I got to the point whereby I couldn't walk.

I did have a couple of injections of "Synvisc" in a problem joint, from the specialist a few years back and that did the trick.

Good luck with whatever you do and keep us updated please!

Thanks. As for sports yes, I played racquetball daily for many years in my mid 30's to 40's. I was very good at it and as such played with top players which meant very aggressive playing, fast starts/stops etc. Lot of pounding and twisting of the joints.

Still waiting for acknowledgment of my Dr. appointment request, they're usually much more responsive so will send it off again in case it got lost.

@Sheryl FYI, I'm trying to see Dr. Piboon at Chiang Mai Ram as he has been highly recommended by several CM members.

I injured my knee playing rugby when 21. Doctor warned me I would have problems when older. I have osteoarthritis, no cartilage left & been told I need a knee replacement. This was3 years ago. Last year I was walking with a peg leg, I could bend my knee when resting but walking I could not & it was generally quite painful. In fact one time it was so bad I had to take Tramadol to dull the pain but generally I was not taking any anti inflammatory medications. These days I am pain free, walking pretty normally & have not had a knee replacement. Feel free to PM if you want any further info.

[losworld]

MSM natural supplement and best anti inflammatory for this injury.

[chubby]

might have mentioned the racketball in your 1st post, duh, you don't have arthritis..... you may have sprained or torn a ligament, that just didn't manifest during the racketball, wanna bet?

in that case depends on which ligament and what grade it is, re: prognosis .......and therapy

Could be a number of causes, some of which are listed above, however if you have played sport at sometime in your life, there is potentially another answer, or two for that matter!

Have had a similar occurrence on my knees over the years due to bits of floating cartilage in the knee joint, caused by wear and tear after many years of playing football and tennis. In addition to this bone spurs can occur, again, if pressure is put on the knee joint from the likes of any sport played over the years.

Certainly Ibuprofen will help because of its anti-inflammatory effects, and seeing an orthopaedic surgeon/specialist would also help.

I have a friend who has a similar problem after years of playing football, and although his knee only occasionally aches, he is convinced he needs a knee replacement!!!! I for one would consider this the absolute last thing I would do if I had pain in the knees unless I got to the point whereby I couldn't walk.

I did have a couple of injections of "Synvisc" in a problem joint, from the specialist a few years back and that did the trick.

Good luck with whatever you do and keep us updated please!

Thanks. As for sports yes, I played racquetball daily for many years in my mid 30's to 40's. I was very good at it and as such played with top players which meant very aggressive playing, fast starts/stops etc. Lot of pounding and twisting of the joints.

Still waiting for acknowledgment of my Dr. appointment request, they're usually much more responsive so will send it off again in case it got lost.

@Sheryl FYI, I'm trying to see Dr. Piboon at Chiang Mai Ram as he has been highly recommended by several CM members.

[PattayaPhom]

Herpes can cause knee pain

[Tywais]

might have mentioned the racketball in your 1st post, duh, you don't have arthritis..... you may have sprained or torn a ligament, that just didn't manifest during the racketball, wanna bet?

Except I haven't played in over twenty years since moving to Thailand so didn't occur to me there would be a relationship except for early wearing of the joint when a member mentioned it.

[xylophone]

Could be a number of causes, some of which are listed above, however if you have played sport at sometime in your life, there is potentially another answer, or two for that matter!

Have had a similar occurrence on my knees over the years due to bits of floating cartilage in the knee joint, caused by wear and tear after many years of playing football and tennis. In addition to this bone spurs can occur, again, if pressure is put on the knee joint from the likes of any sport played over the years.

Certainly Ibuprofen will help because of its anti-inflammatory effects, and seeing an orthopaedic surgeon/specialist would also help.

I have a friend who has a similar problem after years of playing football, and although his knee only occasionally aches, he is convinced he needs a knee replacement!!!! I for one would consider this the absolute last thing I would do if I had pain in the knees unless I got to the point whereby I couldn't walk.

I did have a couple of injections of "Synvisc" in a problem joint, from the specialist a few years back and that did the trick.

Good luck with whatever you do and keep us updated please!

Thanks. As for sports yes, I played racquetball daily for many years in my mid 30's to 40's. I was very good at it and as such played with top players which meant very aggressive playing, fast starts/stops etc. Lot of pounding and twisting of the joints.

Still waiting for acknowledgment of my Dr. appointment request, they're usually much more responsive so will send it off again in case it got lost.

@Sheryl FYI, I'm trying to see Dr. Piboon at Chiang Mai Ram as he has been highly recommended by several CM members.

Forgot to mention this and it might be of some interest to you......... I have found that wearing different types of footwear over here can also lead to some knee pain for me.

Seems mostly to do with the thickness of the sole/heel of whatever I'm wearing, so I have thrown out a couple of the worst offending shoes (sandal type shoes as well as others) and now just occasionally get a twinge, but probably more to do with "worn" joints and old age!!!

[h90]

Could be a number of causes, some of which are listed above, however if you have played sport at sometime in your life, there is potentially another answer, or two for that matter!

Have had a similar occurrence on my knees over the years due to bits of floating cartilage in the knee joint, caused by wear and tear after many years of playing football and tennis. In addition to this bone spurs can occur, again, if pressure is put on the knee joint from the likes of any sport played over the years.

Certainly Ibuprofen will help because of its anti-inflammatory effects, and seeing an orthopaedic surgeon/specialist would also help.

I have a friend who has a similar problem after years of playing football, and although his knee only occasionally aches, he is convinced he needs a knee replacement!!!! I for one would consider this the absolute last thing I would do if I had pain in the knees unless I got to the point whereby I couldn't walk.

I did have a couple of injections of "Synvisc" in a problem joint, from the specialist a few years back and that did the trick.

Good luck with whatever you do and keep us updated please!

Thanks. As for sports yes, I played racquetball daily for many years in my mid 30's to 40's. I was very good at it and as such played with top players which meant very aggressive playing, fast starts/stops etc. Lot of pounding and twisting of the joints.

Still waiting for acknowledgment of my Dr. appointment request, they're usually much more responsive so will send it off again in case it got lost.

@Sheryl FYI, I'm trying to see Dr. Piboon at Chiang Mai Ram as he has been highly recommended by several CM members.

Forgot to mention this and it might be of some interest to you......... I have found that wearing different types of footwear over here can also lead to some knee pain for me.

Seems mostly to do with the thickness of the sole/heel of whatever I'm wearing, so I have thrown out a couple of the worst offending shoes (sandal type shoes as well as others) and now just occasionally get a twinge, but probably more to do with "worn" joints and old age!!!

I get knee problems when I don't move them.....I had many accidents on my knees, sometimes I make a wrong move and get rewarded with pain for a while.

But if heavy training makes it better.

The BUT: When I have pain in my knees they aren't swollen so it is something different.

[opalred]

i was told 12yrs ago had osteo in ankles and knees

then been living in los since and tried many things

some times over the years could not walk

but i know now drink lime juice as much as you can handle during the day

now am walking no pain and ride a bike every day cheers

[Gonsalviz]

Concur. Tylenol in large sustained doses can damage the liver. Diclofenac works for me but I try to not take it regularly because it taxes the kidneys. Good luck with your knee. Let us know what happens.

Ultracet works pretty good but it also has Paracetamol in it.

[gerry1011]

Try Flexa 1500.

Available at Boots or Watson, no prescription.

Take one dose (mix with water) per day.

After about 20 days it will start to help a lot.

But you have to continue to take Flexa, otherwise the symptoms come back, of course.

[nowretired]

Try Flexa 1500.

Available at Boots or Watson, no prescription.

Take one dose (mix with water) per day.

After about 20 days it will start to help a lot.

But you have to continue to take Flexa, otherwise the symptoms come back, of course.

Flexa 1500 might sound impressive but it is just an expensive brand of glucosamine sulfate.

There is very little or no scientific evidence that glucosamine sulfate is beneficial beyond the placebo effect ....................