Lesbian couple, like Kentucky clerk, standing up for beliefs

[webfact]

Lesbian couple, like Kentucky clerk, standing up for beliefs
By CLAIRE GALOFARO

MOREHEAD, Ky. (AP) — As April Miller drove to work, still too stunned to grasp the magnitude of the fight erupting around her, an old song crackled over the car radio.

"Will you still love me for the rest of my life?" the band Chicago sang. "I can't go on if I'm on my own."

Miller pulled over. And for the first time since she and her partner stepped into the vortex of history, she wept.

"I had been trying to keep it together, keep it even, trying not to let my blood pressure go up," she said.

The day before, Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis refused her a license to marry Karen Roberts, her partner for more than a decade. Rather than comply with the U.S. Supreme Court's legalization of gay marriage nationwide, the Apostolic Christian has invoked "God's authority" in refusing to license any marriages at all.

"All the excitement built up, then there was this crash of disappointment and anger," Miller said. "I felt really marginalized, dehumanized, ostracized. I just emotionally crashed."

For two months, Miller and Roberts have felt stuck on what seems like an endless carnival ride: U.S. District Judge David Bunning ordered Davis to issue the licenses. The couple celebrated and dashed to the courthouse, holding hands, but Davis denied them. An appeals court upheld Bunning's order. Another dash to the courthouse, another denial. Then the Supreme Court denied the clerk's request for a reprieve. A fourth run to the courthouse, a fourth denial.

The couple has lived quietly together for years, never intending to lead a battle that has consumed their town of Morehead, where Miller is a tenured university professor and Roberts, a retired teacher, looks after their 21-year-old disabled daughter.

They never went to a gay pride parade or joined an LGBT group. Now they see their faces on the front pages of newspapers, just like Davis. Miller said she feels like they're walking parallel paths, under the unexpected glare of television cameras.

"We understand how hard it is to stand up for what you believe in," she said. "This is really the first time that we've done that. We know from this experience how hard it is. There are some days when all you want to do is give up. She's standing up for what she believes in too. And we respect her for it."

The couple met 20 years ago and became best friends. A decade later, they realized they were in love. They divorced their husbands, exchanged promise rings and started a family. They've chosen to live openly as a couple, but quietly, only confirming their relationship if someone asked. They moved to Kentucky nearly 10 years ago when Miller was hired as an assistant dean at Morehead State University.

They have struggled with discrimination, they said, but never because of their sexual orientation. Roberts' daughter Jessica has Down syndrome, along with visual and hearing impairments, so they focused on advocating for children with disabilities.

They are the sort of couple that eats leftover meatloaf on Friday nights, bickers about grocery lists and laundry, and sometimes finishes each other's thoughts, "just like every other old married couple," Roberts said.

They celebrated the Supreme Court's landmark decision by exchanging wedding rings — simple white gold bands, ringed in diamonds. Then, Miller saw on the local evening news that their county clerk was refusing to issue marriage licenses.

Miller stormed into their bedroom and woke up Roberts.

"I can't believe this is happening," Miller remembers saying. "We are going to make something happen about this. We are not going to sit by and let her say that we can't get married."

The next morning, they became the first couple to march into Davis' office, demand a license, and be denied. Then they called anyone they could think of — two local prosecutors, the attorney general, the governor. When no one could help them, they called the American Civil Liberties Union.

The ACLU sued Davis on behalf of Miller and Roberts, a gay couple and two straight couples.

Some in their town have come to see them as heroes since then. Others consider them rabble-rousers, needlessly forcing a kind, Christian woman to forsake her conviction. They argue that the couples could simply go to another county, less than an hour's drive away, where clerks are issuing licenses.

But the couples counter, and the courts have agreed, that they shouldn't have to.

"This was about us that first day — when we couldn't get a license, it was about us," Roberts said.

"But we have a home and cars and professions and a really committed relationship and a family that's not going to bust up over this. A lot of these kids don't," Miller continued. "And they need somebody that will stand up and say that. It's really not about us anymore. This has gotten a lot bigger than us."

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-09-03

[Crossy]

An off topic post has been removed.

[luckizuchinni]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

[Wolfe]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

No what is DISGUSTING is the fact that people are NOW FORCED to accept beliefs that are deemed offensive too others but they NOW FORCED to accept it.

For example while I dont care if gay people do their stuff behind closed doors, I do find it EXTREMELY offensive to watch 2 guys kissing an cannoodling in public be it religious belief or not it makes me wanna puke that is just the way it is but of course I am homophobic a bigot and any other names they want to call me but the truth TO ME AND MILLION OF OTHERS the thought of having sex with another man is disgusting but you expect me to be forced to accept that SORRY aint gonna happen.,

Now this lady is being forced against her beliefs to do something she does not believe in, I agree with her she has that right to refuse

[Steely Dan]

Said clerk has been divorced more than once I believe, in which case her position is based on selective and hypocritical citing of a book of fiction.

[stevenl]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

No what is DISGUSTING is the fact that people are NOW FORCED to accept beliefs that are deemed offensive too others but they NOW FORCED to accept it.

For example while I dont care if gay people do their stuff behind closed doors, I do find it EXTREMELY offensive to watch 2 guys kissing an cannoodling in public be it religious belief or not it makes me wanna puke that is just the way it is but of course I am homophobic a bigot and any other names they want to call me but the truth TO ME AND MILLION OF OTHERS the thought of having sex with another man is disgusting but you expect me to be forced to accept that SORRY aint gonna happen.,

Now this lady is being forced against her beliefs to do something she does not believe in, I agree with her she has that right to refuse

So don't do it.

And it really does not matter whether you think she has the right to refuse, the court has ruled she does not have that right.

[Wolfe]

Said clerk has been divorced more than once I believe, in which case her position is based on selective and hypocritical citing of a book of fiction.

Ahh yes the Liberal left attacking her for her past actions PRIOR to be becoming a Christian and at the same time the peaceful left sending her death threats, threats to set her home on fire and all the time she is a registered Democrat you could not make it up

I cant stand Democrats but have to stand up for her and her right to refuse to do something that is against her beliefs.

[Wolfe]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

No what is DISGUSTING is the fact that people are NOW FORCED to accept beliefs that are deemed offensive too others but they NOW FORCED to accept it.

For example while I dont care if gay people do their stuff behind closed doors, I do find it EXTREMELY offensive to watch 2 guys kissing an cannoodling in public be it religious belief or not it makes me wanna puke that is just the way it is but of course I am homophobic a bigot and any other names they want to call me but the truth TO ME AND MILLION OF OTHERS the thought of having sex with another man is disgusting but you expect me to be forced to accept that SORRY aint gonna happen.,

Now this lady is being forced against her beliefs to do something she does not believe in, I agree with her she has that right to refuse

So don't do it.

And it really does not matter whether you think she has the right to refuse, the court has ruled she does not have that right.

Its a B.u.l.l.s.h.i.t law forced on majority of people who did not vote it in

Edited September 3, 2015 by Wolfe

[luckizuchinni]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

No what is DISGUSTING is the fact that people are NOW FORCED to accept beliefs that are deemed offensive too others but they NOW FORCED to accept it.

For example while I dont care if gay people do their stuff behind closed doors, I do find it EXTREMELY offensive to watch 2 guys kissing an cannoodling in public be it religious belief or not it makes me wanna puke that is just the way it is but of course I am homophobic a bigot and any other names they want to call me but the truth TO ME AND MILLION OF OTHERS the thought of having sex with another man is disgusting but you expect me to be forced to accept that SORRY aint gonna happen.,

Now this lady is being forced against her beliefs to do something she does not believe in, I agree with her she has that right to refuse

As a private citizen, she can do or say as she pleases. But she is not a private citizen. She is a public official and is required to do her duties as per the law, not her religious beliefs. She can either uphold those duties or leave her position. It is really pretty simple.

There are men in prison right now for refusing to go to Iraq when their units were called up. They volunteered for the Army, even got their college paid for, but then said they could not deploy for religious reasons. Their duty was to serve. They chose not to and are now in prison. No one is suggesting that Davis goes to jail, just leave the job she finds personally immoral.

This has nothing to do with gays and marriage--as an elected official, this has to do with her doing her legal duty, nothing else.

As far as your point about you accepting it, you don't have to. You are irrelevant to the issue. You have no legal duty to participate in any way with a gay marriage, so go on your happy way with your beliefs. No problem. But you are not a county clerk, so your situation in no way reflects the issue at hand.

[Doc46]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

Marriage is only for Male & Female That is the BASE to start a family,,,,,If Male and Female want to have same sex Relationships that is fine,,,BUT DON'T let them get Married and have Children ,, Because it will not be a Family,,

[luckizuchinni]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

No what is DISGUSTING is the fact that people are NOW FORCED to accept beliefs that are deemed offensive too others but they NOW FORCED to accept it.

For example while I dont care if gay people do their stuff behind closed doors, I do find it EXTREMELY offensive to watch 2 guys kissing an cannoodling in public be it religious belief or not it makes me wanna puke that is just the way it is but of course I am homophobic a bigot and any other names they want to call me but the truth TO ME AND MILLION OF OTHERS the thought of having sex with another man is disgusting but you expect me to be forced to accept that SORRY aint gonna happen.,

Now this lady is being forced against her beliefs to do something she does not believe in, I agree with her she has that right to refuse

So don't do it.

And it really does not matter whether you think she has the right to refuse, the court has ruled she does not have that right.

Its a B.u.l.l.s.h.i.t law forced on majority of people who did not vote it in

Actually, a majority of Americans do support same-sex marriages, so you are mistaken in that. But whether a majority does or does or does not support it is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that it is the law. And as a public official, she is required to perform her legal duties with regards to it. The courts have upheld this in the specific case.

[Anthony5]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

No what is DISGUSTING is the fact that people are NOW FORCED to accept beliefs that are deemed offensive too others but they NOW FORCED to accept it.

For example while I dont care if gay people do their stuff behind closed doors, I do find it EXTREMELY offensive to watch 2 guys kissing an cannoodling in public be it religious belief or not it makes me wanna puke that is just the way it is but of course I am homophobic a bigot and any other names they want to call me but the truth TO ME AND MILLION OF OTHERS the thought of having sex with another man is disgusting but you expect me to be forced to accept that SORRY aint gonna happen.,

Now this lady is being forced against her beliefs to do something she does not believe in, I agree with her she has that right to refuse

She isn't forced to accept any beliefs she find offensive, she's only asked to do her job as a bureaucrat.

[Steely Dan]

Said clerk has been divorced more than once I believe, in which case her position is based on selective and hypocritical citing of a book of fiction.

Ahh yes the Liberal left attacking her for her past actions PRIOR to be becoming a Christian and at the same time the peaceful left sending her death threats, threats to set her home on fire and all the time she is a registered Democrat you could not make it up

I cant stand Democrats but have to stand up for her and her right to refuse to do something that is against her beliefs.

Hmmm, the first time I've ever been accused of being liberal-left, I guess there is a first time for anything. Of course her previous divorces were perfectly legal according to current U.S law, though the bible would have had a thing or two to say about the matter if it were the basis of current law. Likewise whatever the bible may or may not say about same sex marriage is equally irrelevant, what matters is current U.S law.

Even if the bible was a valid reason to base her appeal on it would look better if she had no dirty washing according to said bible. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone springs to mind.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Steely Dan

[luckizuchinni]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

Marriage is only for Male & Female That is the BASE to start a family,,,,,If Male and Female want to have same sex Relationships that is fine,,,BUT DON'T let them get Married and have Children ,, Because it will not be a Family,,

One more time (sigh).

This case, from a legal standpoint, had NOTHING to do with whether same-sex marriage is right or wrong. This has to do with a public official refusing to perform her legally required duties. Nothing more, nothing less. Her motivation for refusing is irrelevant.

We've had people refusing to follow the law for personal beliefs before. As I posted above, soldiers are regularly imprisoned for refusing to deploy. We had officials refusing to register African-Americans to vote. We had officials refusing to register women to vote. This has happened over and over in our history. And each time, the courts have eventually come down in upholding the law of the land.

Nothing is different here. Davis can do her duty, or if she can't, for whatever reason, she has to resign her position. If she resigned, then she would not be forced to take any action she considers immoral. But by remaining in office, she is holding US law hostage.

[hakuho]

people discuss the various problems that result from gay marriage; but what about the problems concerning gay divorce?

what about community property? In the event of a legal dissolution of a gay marriage, who gets the drapes and the color-coded finger stalls?

Within the purview of the American (USA) system of jurisprudence, the highest court-SCOTUS-has shown itself to be an uber-progressive body, that exacerbates the century-long socio-political thrust into Communist control mechanisms..which is the overbearing tyranny coming out of a central government that seeks to control even your bodily functions.. .IMO, those three lesbian members of the court should have recused themselves from the process of determining social policy in this respect...but, my recommendation would be to go ahead and let gays marry; let them suffer for awhile just as the rest of us have done...in any event, best to go for the politically correct premise and say, the less bein' said about that the better..55555.

[dcpo]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

No what is DISGUSTING is the fact that people are NOW FORCED to accept beliefs that are deemed offensive too others but they NOW FORCED to accept it.

For example while I dont care if gay people do their stuff behind closed doors, I do find it EXTREMELY offensive to watch 2 guys kissing an cannoodling in public be it religious belief or not it makes me wanna puke that is just the way it is but of course I am homophobic a bigot and any other names they want to call me but the truth TO ME AND MILLION OF OTHERS the thought of having sex with another man is disgusting but you expect me to be forced to accept that SORRY aint gonna happen.,

Now this lady is being forced against her beliefs to do something she does not believe in, I agree with her she has that right to refuse

I find terrible arguments like this disgusting and offensive.

[Tep]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

No what is DISGUSTING is the fact that people are NOW FORCED to accept beliefs that are deemed offensive too others but they NOW FORCED to accept it.

For example while I dont care if gay people do their stuff behind closed doors, I do find it EXTREMELY offensive to watch 2 guys kissing an cannoodling in public be it religious belief or not it makes me wanna puke that is just the way it is but of course I am homophobic a bigot and any other names they want to call me but the truth TO ME AND MILLION OF OTHERS the thought of having sex with another man is disgusting but you expect me to be forced to accept that SORRY aint gonna happen.,

Now this lady is being forced against her beliefs to do something she does not believe in, I agree with her she has that right to refuse

These are the consequences of your kind of hate speech http://myinforms.com/en/a/16015579-students-react-to-claims-that-und-frat-assaults-a-man-because-hes-gay/ You hold a minority, marginal view which is offensive and in some parts of the world is now criminalised. I look forward to the day when that is the standard response to your particular brand of bile.

People refusing to accept the universality of human equality and rights because of their religious beliefs are and have been forcing others to accept their world view with an arrogance and narrow-mindedness that is truly disgusting.

Why do you make this issue about gay sex? It is about human equality under the law at least according to the majority opinion of SCOTUS. You ranting about your response to same sex PDA is both off topic and revealing.

[Tep]

Said clerk has been divorced more than once I believe, in which case her position is based on selective and hypocritical citing of a book of fiction.

Ahh yes the Liberal left attacking her for her past actions PRIOR to be becoming a Christian and at the same time the peaceful left sending her death threats, threats to set her home on fire and all the time she is a registered Democrat you could not make it up

I cant stand Democrats but have to stand up for her and her right to refuse to do something that is against her beliefs.

Hmmm, the first time I've ever been accused of being liberal-left, I guess there is a first time for anything. Of course her previous divorces were perfectly legal according to current U.S law, though the bible would have had a thing or two to say about the matter if it were the basis of current law. Likewise whatever the bible may or may not say about same sex marriage is equally irrelevant, what matters is current U.S law.

Even if the bible was a valid reason to base her appeal on it would look better if she had no dirty washing according to said bible. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone springs to mind.

This is fantastic news. Welcome to the Dark Side Steely Dan. Will you now be bookmarking Huffington Post instead of Gates of Vienna?

[Tep]

people discuss the various problems that result from gay marriage; but what about the problems concerning gay divorce?

what about community property? In the event of a legal dissolution of a gay marriage, who gets the drapes and the color-coded finger stalls?

Within the purview of the American (USA) system of jurisprudence, the highest court-SCOTUS-has shown itself to be an uber-progressive body, that exacerbates the century-long socio-political thrust into Communist control mechanisms..which is the overbearing tyranny coming out of a central government that seeks to control even your bodily functions.. .IMO, those three lesbian members of the court should have recused themselves from the process of determining social policy in this respect...but, my recommendation would be to go ahead and let gays marry; let them suffer for awhile just as the rest of us have done...in any event, best to go for the politically correct premise and say, the less bein' said about that the better..55555.

Why is gay divorce more problematic than straight divorce? Or is this just a vehicle for your stereotyping bon mot? Très amusing.

More seriously though, I am intrigued by your association of Communism with sexual liberalisation. As far as I am aware, Communist societies were traditionally some of the most oppressive and vindictive towards same sex relationships and activities. Perhaps you could provide some evidence of this not being the case?

[wwest5829]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

No what is DISGUSTING is the fact that people are NOW FORCED to accept beliefs that are deemed offensive too others but they NOW FORCED to accept it.

For example while I dont care if gay people do their stuff behind closed doors, I do find it EXTREMELY offensive to watch 2 guys kissing an cannoodling in public be it religious belief or not it makes me wanna puke that is just the way it is but of course I am homophobic a bigot and any other names they want to call me but the truth TO ME AND MILLION OF OTHERS the thought of having sex with another man is disgusting but you expect me to be forced to accept that SORRY aint gonna happen.,

Now this lady is being forced against her beliefs to do something she does not believe in, I agree with her she has that right to refuse

Does not matter. American law says you cannot discriminate. I stand shoulder to shoulder with you so that no one forces you to kiss another man, nor marry one. You or I have no right on the basis of our personal religious belief to deny others.

[stevenl]

Said clerk has been divorced more than once I believe, in which case her position is based on selective and hypocritical citing of a book of fiction.

Ahh yes the Liberal left attacking her for her past actions PRIOR to be becoming a Christian and at the same time the peaceful left sending her death threats, threats to set her home on fire and all the time she is a registered Democrat you could not make it up

I cant stand Democrats but have to stand up for her and her right to refuse to do something that is against her beliefs.

Hmmm, the first time I've ever been accused of being liberal-left, I guess there is a first time for anything. Of course her previous divorces were perfectly legal according to current U.S law, though the bible would have had a thing or two to say about the matter if it were the basis of current law. Likewise whatever the bible may or may not say about same sex marriage is equally irrelevant, what matters is current U.S law.

Even if the bible was a valid reason to base her appeal on it would look better if she had no dirty washing according to said bible. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone springs to mind.

This is fantastic news. Welcome to the Dark Side Steely Dan. Will you now be bookmarking Huffington Post instead of Gates of Vienna?

In many cases I don't agree with Steely Dan, but he does seem to be of principle. And letting others chose to live their lives as they seem fit fits that principle as opposed to the many hypocrits we find on social issues in the conservative corner.

Edited September 3, 2015 by stevenl

[Steely Dan]

Said clerk has been divorced more than once I believe, in which case her position is based on selective and hypocritical citing of a book of fiction.

Ahh yes the Liberal left attacking her for her past actions PRIOR to be becoming a Christian and at the same time the peaceful left sending her death threats, threats to set her home on fire and all the time she is a registered Democrat you could not make it up

I cant stand Democrats but have to stand up for her and her right to refuse to do something that is against her beliefs.

Hmmm, the first time I've ever been accused of being liberal-left, I guess there is a first time for anything. Of course her previous divorces were perfectly legal according to current U.S law, though the bible would have had a thing or two to say about the matter if it were the basis of current law. Likewise whatever the bible may or may not say about same sex marriage is equally irrelevant, what matters is current U.S law.

Even if the bible was a valid reason to base her appeal on it would look better if she had no dirty washing according to said bible. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone springs to mind.

This is fantastic news. Welcome to the Dark Side Steely Dan. Will you now be bookmarking Huffington Post instead of Gates of Vienna?

Contrary to what you may expect I have always been a libertarian, just not a suicidal one.

[wwest5829]

people discuss the various problems that result from gay marriage; but what about the problems concerning gay divorce?

what about community property? In the event of a legal dissolution of a gay marriage, who gets the drapes and the color-coded finger stalls?

Within the purview of the American (USA) system of jurisprudence, the highest court-SCOTUS-has shown itself to be an uber-progressive body, that exacerbates the century-long socio-political thrust into Communist control mechanisms..which is the overbearing tyranny coming out of a central government that seeks to control even your bodily functions.. .IMO, those three lesbian members of the court should have recused themselves from the process of determining social policy in this respect...but, my recommendation would be to go ahead and let gays marry; let them suffer for awhile just as the rest of us have done...in any event, best to go for the politically correct premise and say, the less bein' said about that the better..55555.

Why is gay divorce more problematic than straight divorce? Or is this just a vehicle for your stereotyping bon mot? Très amusing.

More seriously though, I am intrigued by your association of Communism with sexual liberalisation. As far as I am aware, Communist societies were traditionally some of the most oppressive and vindictive towards same sex relationships and activities. Perhaps you could provide some evidence of this not being the case?

Agreed, look at Putin's Russia today. Look at the Sochi games debates over this issue.

[hakuho]

in response, we should factor 'family values' into the discussion...when a gay couple divorces and they have ADOPTED a child, do you not think that there would be issues re support, etc. who gets to raise the child, Bruce or Randy?

also, the Communist Manifesto, if you ever decide to actually read it, is founded upon the breakdown of local control of social memes and attributes of accountability-turning over the governance of even, in this case, your genital plumbing, to a huge centralized bureaucracy...if you don't get it, then you are already compromised in your opaque faux-certitude.

Gays are notoriously randy in their sexual proclivities...having worked in Hollywood and in other show biz venues, I submit that gays are 'damaged goods', and their ability to maintain a cohesive platform for what marriage is supposed to be; that is, a stable environment for the next generation, is very problematic...but, again, let them marry...marriage is in itself a dying institution, as the US birth rate falls way below the replacement figure of 2.2 children...BTW, this is also a phenom that impacts most of Western Europe, where birth rates for 'natives' fall to 1.4 or 1.6 in France, for ex. but the population remains stable because of the massive influx of Muslims (read, Orianna Fallaci-'Policy of the Womb')

Connect the dots-don't trip over them.

[Chicog]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

No what is DISGUSTING is the fact that people are NOW FORCED to accept beliefs that are deemed offensive too others but they NOW FORCED to accept it.

For example while I dont care if gay people do their stuff behind closed doors, I do find it EXTREMELY offensive to watch 2 guys kissing an cannoodling in public be it religious belief or not it makes me wanna puke that is just the way it is but of course I am homophobic a bigot and any other names they want to call me but the truth TO ME AND MILLION OF OTHERS the thought of having sex with another man is disgusting but you expect me to be forced to accept that SORRY aint gonna happen.,

Now this lady is being forced against her beliefs to do something she does not believe in, I agree with her she has that right to refuse

A couple of things.

(1) If you don't think about bad things that make you puke, then you won't puke.

(2) She has every right to not do that job. Just quit and let someone who wishes to comply with the LAW do it.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Chicog

[FritsSikkink]

This is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the USA. If this county clerk feels she can't issue licenses as per the law of the land, fine. That is her choice--as a private citizen, not as a government official. She needs to be impeached immediately so someone who follows the law can fill the position.

I saw her on tv, and she told a couple that they were forcing their beliefs on her. It is more that she is forcing her beliefs on them.

No what is DISGUSTING is the fact that people are NOW FORCED to accept beliefs that are deemed offensive too others but they NOW FORCED to accept it.

For example while I dont care if gay people do their stuff behind closed doors, I do find it EXTREMELY offensive to watch 2 guys kissing an cannoodling in public be it religious belief or not it makes me wanna puke that is just the way it is but of course I am homophobic a bigot and any other names they want to call me but the truth TO ME AND MILLION OF OTHERS the thought of having sex with another man is disgusting but you expect me to be forced to accept that SORRY aint gonna happen.,

Now this lady is being forced against her beliefs to do something she does not believe in, I agree with her she has that right to refuse

you can believe whatever you want but a government official has to follow the law, you don't like the law, you quit. keep your believe at home so i don't get sick off it

[chuckd]

It is interesting to note how many people on this thread don't seem to think elected officials also have Constitutional rights.

Rather strange, indeed.

[stevenl]

It is interesting to note how many people on this thread don't seem to think elected officials also have Constitutional rights.

Rather strange, indeed.

Which rights do you mean?

[Credo]

It is interesting to note how many people on this thread don't seem to think elected officials also have Constitutional rights.

Rather strange, indeed.

They do not have the constitutional right to deny other people their constitutional rights.

[Chicog]

It is interesting to note how many people on this thread don't seem to think elected officials also have Constitutional rights.

Rather strange, indeed.

Rather strange that you think her breaking the law is a "constitutional right".

The Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that the Constitution requires that same-sex couples be allowed to marry no matter where they live and that states may no longer reserve the right only for heterosexual couples.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/supreme-court-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/1605/

She does, of course, have the right to *say* that she doesn't like doing it.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Chicog