Do they want farang retirees here?

[lostoday]

I feel we're getting a little distracted here. The question is whether they want the retirees here, not whether they want their money. These are not the same thing. Money is generally welcomed, but that doesn't mean they like the people that spend it.

In my experience that distinction is not drawn in Thailand. If the question was do they want poor retirees here the answer would be no. If the question was do they want retirees with 800,000 baht in the bank or a pension to equal that yearly the answer is yes.

Your experience being that of one who's tolerated here because of your money?

The immigration department. They don't let old guys stay who can't meet the financial qualifications. If you got a beef with them why not write to the government.

[JLCrab]

You don't know why anyone should tolerate you. How boring.

I'm not a retiree, so this isn't really about me, is it? Much as I seem to fascinate you, let's stay on topic.

Yes -- you are off topic but you're here anyway. I liked your comment that some here may be only tolerated for their money so I just asked why they should tolerate you. If that bothers you go ride your bicycle.

As I've said before I go where there is material and you're a good source of material.

Edited September 10, 2015 by JLCrab

[lostoday]

You don't know why anyone should tolerate you. How boring.

I'm not a retiree, so this isn't really about me, is it? Much as I seem to fascinate you, let's stay on topic.

You brought up you when you wrote, "Unlike many here, I don't tie myself in knots over whether the locals love me". So it's really the pot calling the kettle black.

[elviajero]

I feel we're getting a little distracted here. The question is whether they want the retirees here, not whether they want their money. These are not the same thing. Money is generally welcomed, but that doesn't mean they like the people that spend it.

In my experience that distinction is not drawn in Thailand. If the question was do they want poor retirees here the answer would be no. If the question was do they want retirees with 800,000 baht in the bank or a pension to equal that yearly the answer is yes.

Is there a requirement that someone with a retirement extension brings one penny in to Thailand?

[JLCrab]

I feel we're getting a little distracted here. The question is whether they want the retirees here, not whether they want their money. These are not the same thing. Money is generally welcomed, but that doesn't mean they like the people that spend it.

In my experience that distinction is not drawn in Thailand. If the question was do they want poor retirees here the answer would be no. If the question was do they want retirees with 800,000 baht in the bank or a pension to equal that yearly the answer is yes.

Is there a requirement that someone with a retirement extension brings one penny in to Thailand?

If you are using the 800K baht in a Thai bank method, then it is in a Thai bank. If you are using the 65K per month income method then technically No but it is within the discretion of the Immigration officer to ask to see that funds have indeed been brought into Thailand either via bank deposits in a Thai bank or ATM withdrawal slips or I guess other means as well.

[elviajero]

I feel we're getting a little distracted here. The question is whether they want the retirees here, not whether they want their money. These are not the same thing. Money is generally welcomed, but that doesn't mean they like the people that spend it.

In my experience that distinction is not drawn in Thailand. If the question was do they want poor retirees here the answer would be no. If the question was do they want retirees with 800,000 baht in the bank or a pension to equal that yearly the answer is yes.

Is there a requirement that someone with a retirement extension brings one penny in to Thailand?

If you are using the 800K baht in a Thai bank method, then it is in a Thai bank. If you are using the 65K per month income method then technically No but it is within the discretion of the Immigration officer to ask to see that funds have indeed been brought into Thailand either via bank deposits in a Thai bank or ATM withdrawal slips or I guess other means as well.

I have no experience of retirement extensions so I don't know the answer, but there is nothing anywhere (that I can find) that states the 800k has to originate from abroad. What is stopping my wife giving me 800k?

If using 65k are you demonstrating that you have future income at that amount or had that level of income for the past 12 months. I believe its the former in which case I can't see how the IO can ask for proof of past transactions. If I am right then the answer would have to be a definitive no.

I only brought up the point because lostoday wants to quantify something that in my opinion is impossible to calculate. Even if his method of calculation is correct he doesn't know how many retirees there are, how much they have deposited in Thai banks or how much they bring in to the country. His assumptions create a huge margin of error.

[duanebigsby]

When the Thai Immigration folks eliminate the Extension of Stay for Purpose of Retirement option, you will know conclusively that 'they do not want retirees here' as per the topic heading.

This is the clearest, most logical, and most sensible post on this thread.

We'll know we are not tolerated when the option of being tolerated is removed.

[duanebigsby]

To me an interesting discussion in which it is not so easy to prove or disprove various claims of monetary contributions from farangs .

However , the point that intrigues me are the comments regarding significant contributions from retirees that I casually wrote in my first post.In the back of my mind was the correlation between Thai incomes and that of all farangs , ( not just westerners ) retirees included .

Btw , what percentage of the Thai population do you think actually work , i.e. bring home a regular income . Population is 67,000,000, approx; and ethnic Thais are 75% which is 50,000,000 , Answer = of those there are 38,000,000 working and how many are on the minimum wage ?

Food for thought

Yes it's the term significant which is confusing and I highly dispute 7% of GDP thrown out, or that overseas money has a multiplier of 10x..

But using your figures, 38 million Thais work. Let's assume for argument they ALL make minimum wage which is roughly 6200 baht per month. I would also say minimum wage earners spend every baht they earn.

The best guesstimates of farang here is 200 thousand of us. Assuming, wrongly, every single one is a retiree, we have to spend 190 times what every Thai worker spends.

That is 1,178,000 baht per month.

Most retirees spend that in a year.

Edited September 10, 2015 by duanebigsby

[JLCrab]

Your wife could indeed have given you the 800K -- there is no requirement that it originated ex-Thailand but it is indeed in Thailand. If you deposit 800K in a Thai bank and leave it there it can be the same 800K in perpetuum.

With the 65K monthly income method it is your respective Embassy that decides on what basis to issue an Affidavit of Income. The US variety states that you receive such income every month -- nothing about past or future.

The IMM officer has the right to ask for whatever they feel is necessary to make a decision as to granting your extension.

[lostoday]

I feel we're getting a little distracted here. The question is whether they want the retirees here, not whether they want their money. These are not the same thing. Money is generally welcomed, but that doesn't mean they like the people that spend it.

In my experience that distinction is not drawn in Thailand. If the question was do they want poor retirees here the answer would be no. If the question was do they want retirees with 800,000 baht in the bank or a pension to equal that yearly the answer is yes.

Is there a requirement that someone with a retirement extension brings one penny in to Thailand?

The monthly income method has to come from outside of Thailand because one can't work on a retirement visa.

I also remember reading in the immigration thread that the 800,000 baht method must come from outside of Thailand but would need confirmation of that. In any event the incidence of a Thai wife providing a retiree with the 800,000 baht seems to me fantasy and for all real purposes the it can be assumed the 800,000 will come from outside of Thailand.

So, to sum up, yes the money must come from outside of Thailand.

[lostoday]

To me an interesting discussion in which it is not so easy to prove or disprove various claims of monetary contributions from farangs .

However , the point that intrigues me are the comments regarding significant contributions from retirees that I casually wrote in my first post.In the back of my mind was the correlation between Thai incomes and that of all farangs , ( not just westerners ) retirees included .

Btw , what percentage of the Thai population do you think actually work , i.e. bring home a regular income . Population is 67,000,000, approx; and ethnic Thais are 75% which is 50,000,000 , Answer = of those there are 38,000,000 working and how many are on the minimum wage ?

Food for thought

Yes it's the term significant which is confusing and I highly dispute 7% of GDP thrown out, or that overseas money has a multiplier of 10x..

But using your figures, 38 million Thais work. Let's assume for argument they ALL make minimum wage which is roughly 6200 baht per month. I would also say minimum wage earners spend every baht they earn.

The best guesstimates of farang here is 200 thousand of us. Assuming, wrongly, every single one is a retiree, we have to spend 190 times what every Thai worker spends.

That is 1,178,000 baht per month.

Most retirees spend that in a year.

If you really want to know it has been explained three times in the thread above. Sorry I don't want to get repetitive and be accused of trying to teach economics again.

[elviajero]

Your wife could indeed have given you the 800K -- there is no requirement that it originated ex-Thailand but it is indeed in Thailand. If you deposit 800K in a Thai bank and leave it there it can be the same 800K in perpetuum.

With the 65K monthly income method it is your respective Embassy that decides on what basis to issue an Affidavit of Income. The US variety states that you receive such income every month -- nothing about past or future.

The IMM officer has the right to ask for whatever they feel is necessary to make a decision as to granting your extension.

Ok. So my wife gave me 800k. None of it came from the UK. It's in a Thai bank but my point is that it cannot be used in lostoday's calculations.

So proving the money actual comes in to Thailand isn't required.

I appreciate they can ask for anything but I'm interested in the official rule/criteria.

[lostoday]

So far in this thread I believe the money spent yearly by the retirees that have responded averages about 2 million baht per year. And I think Naam spends that on AC alone so one can assume he spends more in total.

However I'd be willing to participate in a survey on how much retirees spend in Thailand if anyone wants to start a poll.

As to how many live in Thailand for any definitive answer one would have to ask immigration. Although I imagine Ubon Joe in the immigration forum here might have a good estimate if he would care to comment. I would welcome his input as I'm sure we all would.

How many retired foreign men live in Thailand?

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader/reader2146.htm Suggests 100,000 to 80,000 Farang total.

Wikipedia goes on to say that there are 250,000 long-term mainland Chinese; 105,000 Indians, most of them Sikhs and of which 80% hold dual Thai citizenship; 44,000 Japanese, 25,000 Americans; 75,000 Europeans not broken down by nationality; 15,000 Taiwanese; 20,000 South Koreans; 7,500 Australians; 12,000 Arabs; 20,000 Malaysians; 4,000 Singaporeans; 5,000 Filipinos; and 800 New Zealanders. Very few of those numbers are substantiated. Some contradict the other numbers offered.

http://www.dougsrepublic.com/thailand/foreigners.php

Edited September 10, 2015 by lostoday

[JLCrab]

I feel we're getting a little distracted here. The question is whether they want the retirees here, not whether they want their money. These are not the same thing. Money is generally welcomed, but that doesn't mean they like the people that spend it.

In my experience that distinction is not drawn in Thailand. If the question was do they want poor retirees here the answer would be no. If the question was do they want retirees with 800,000 baht in the bank or a pension to equal that yearly the answer is yes.

Is there a requirement that someone with a retirement extension brings one penny in to Thailand?

The monthly income method has to come from outside of Thailand because one can't work on a retirement visa.

I also remember reading in the immigration thread that the 800,000 baht method must come from outside of Thailand but would need confirmation of that. In any event the incidence of a Thai wife providing a retiree with the 800,000 baht seems to me fantasy and for all real purposes the it can be assumed the 800,000 will come from outside of Thailand.

So, to sum up, yes the money must come from outside of Thailand.

For the monthly income method, one could own a business in Thailand or have other investments in Thailand such that the money need not come from outside Thailand and no work would be involved. For the 800K in the bank method, the bank provides a letter that the funds have been on deposit for at least 3 months and there is no mention of the source of those funds.

Edited September 10, 2015 by JLCrab

[elviajero]

I feel we're getting a little distracted here. The question is whether they want the retirees here, not whether they want their money. These are not the same thing. Money is generally welcomed, but that doesn't mean they like the people that spend it.

In my experience that distinction is not drawn in Thailand. If the question was do they want poor retirees here the answer would be no. If the question was do they want retirees with 800,000 baht in the bank or a pension to equal that yearly the answer is yes.

Is there a requirement that someone with a retirement extension brings one penny in to Thailand?

The monthly income method has to come from outside of Thailand because one can't work on a retirement visa.

I also remember reading in the immigration thread that the 800,000 baht method must come from outside of Thailand but would need confirmation of that. In any event the incidence of a Thai wife providing a retiree with the 800,000 baht seems to me fantasy and for all real purposes the it can be assumed the 800,000 will come from outside of Thailand.

So, to sum up, yes the money must come from outside of Thailand.

I understand that you have to prove you have income generated abroad that can meet the requirement. My point is that it seems someone can bring between 0 to 65k in to the country which messes with your figures as it's an unknown quantity.

I appreciate very few wives can stump up 800k. But the point was they can which again messes with your figures. Many retirees / over 50's have businesses here that they earn from. As far as I can see cash from those businesses could equally be used.

I know little about economics or GDP calculations but you've made some bold estimates of the monetary value retirees bring to Thailand. I believe it's an impossible calculation and even if possible would be far less than you claim.

[i claudius]

Do they want retirees here?really I don't think they care one way or the other

[lostoday]

In my experience that distinction is not drawn in Thailand. If the question was do they want poor retirees here the answer would be no. If the question was do they want retirees with 800,000 baht in the bank or a pension to equal that yearly the answer is yes.

Is there a requirement that someone with a retirement extension brings one penny in to Thailand?

The monthly income method has to come from outside of Thailand because one can't work on a retirement visa.

I also remember reading in the immigration thread that the 800,000 baht method must come from outside of Thailand but would need confirmation of that. In any event the incidence of a Thai wife providing a retiree with the 800,000 baht seems to me fantasy and for all real purposes the it can be assumed the 800,000 will come from outside of Thailand.

So, to sum up, yes the money must come from outside of Thailand.

For the monthly income method, one could own a business in Thailand or have other investments in Thailand such that the money need not come from outside Thailand and no work would be involved. For the 800K in the bank method, the bank provides a letter that the funds have been on deposit for at east 3 months and there is no mention of the source of those funds.

The monthly income method is verified by embassy letter and that assumes that the funds come from that country. The bank book indicates where the funds are deposited from and that is required with the bank letter.

Anyway speaking realistically and not pedantically 99% of retirees get 100% of their income from outside of Thailand. If you really want to argue about 1% possibility go ahead.

[JLCrab]

Per quote above: The monthly income method has to come from outside of Thailand because one can't work on a retirement visa.

​Negative although in practice I would agree that most certainly does.

BTW at the US and several other embassies they do not verify anything as to monthly income but rather accept a sworn statement or statutory declaration as to the monthly income being claimed..

Edited September 10, 2015 by JLCrab

[lostoday]

In my experience that distinction is not drawn in Thailand. If the question was do they want poor retirees here the answer would be no. If the question was do they want retirees with 800,000 baht in the bank or a pension to equal that yearly the answer is yes.

Is there a requirement that someone with a retirement extension brings one penny in to Thailand?

The monthly income method has to come from outside of Thailand because one can't work on a retirement visa.

I also remember reading in the immigration thread that the 800,000 baht method must come from outside of Thailand but would need confirmation of that. In any event the incidence of a Thai wife providing a retiree with the 800,000 baht seems to me fantasy and for all real purposes the it can be assumed the 800,000 will come from outside of Thailand.

So, to sum up, yes the money must come from outside of Thailand.

I understand that you have to prove you have income generated abroad that can meet the requirement. My point is that it seems someone can bring between 0 to 65k in to the country which messes with your figures as it's an unknown quantity.

I appreciate very few wives can stump up 800k. But the point was they can which again messes with your figures. Many retirees / over 50's have businesses here that they earn from. As far as I can see cash from those businesses could equally be used.

I know little about economics or GDP calculations but you've made some bold estimates of the monetary value retirees bring to Thailand. I believe it's an impossible calculation and even if possible would be far less than you claim.

No. You have to get the money from outside of Thailand. Anyway it does not mess up the numbers because the cases you mention are a rarity and would not significantly effect the numbers.

I didn't make any bold claims. I suggested people do the math and figure it out and suggested a method to compute the real total.

I know how much it is but don't expect you to believe my numbers. But I do expect if you don't believe me provide the appropriate data to establish a real number.

The real Thai GDP according to Bloomberg is 57% higher because of the grey market (or close to that) do you believe that? The immigration department at the airport steals 1.6 million baht per day do you believe that?

Thailand is full of unbelievable numbers. If the real GDP is twice what is listed then my 7% becomes actually 3.5% doesn't it? Sound more believable at 3.5%?

[lostoday]

One thing is for sure. The government has access to the numbers to figure out how many foreigners are retired in Thailand and how much money they spend (bank reporting). If someone here happens to mention that retirees account for 7% of the GDP and a Thai economist sees that and is amazed enough to check the figures he can get accurate information in a couple of hours.

It's a big number. Houses bought and families supported and so on. Then the guy would feel obligated to tell the general just how big a number it is. And maybe the powers that be will start being a little nicer to us old guys when they realize just how much we contribute to their new BMW's.

[Soutpeel]

I feel we're getting a little distracted here. The question is whether they want the retirees here, not whether they want their money. These are not the same thing. Money is generally welcomed, but that doesn't mean they like the people that spend it.

In my experience that distinction is not drawn in Thailand. If the question was do they want poor retirees here the answer would be no. If the question was do they want retirees with 800,000 baht in the bank or a pension to equal that yearly the answer is yes.

Is there a requirement that someone with a retirement extension brings one penny in to Thailand?

The monthly income method has to come from outside of Thailand because one can't work on a retirement visa.

I also remember reading in the immigration thread that the 800,000 baht method must come from outside of Thailand but would need confirmation of that. In any event the incidence of a Thai wife providing a retiree with the 800,000 baht seems to me fantasy and for all real purposes the it can be assumed the 800,000 will come from outside of Thailand.

So, to sum up, yes the money must come from outside of Thailand.

To sum up your incorrect ...the 800k doesnt have to come from outside Thailand this is factually incorrect

[Soutpeel]

In my experience that distinction is not drawn in Thailand. If the question was do they want poor retirees here the answer would be no. If the question was do they want retirees with 800,000 baht in the bank or a pension to equal that yearly the answer is yes.

Is there a requirement that someone with a retirement extension brings one penny in to Thailand?

The monthly income method has to come from outside of Thailand because one can't work on a retirement visa.

I also remember reading in the immigration thread that the 800,000 baht method must come from outside of Thailand but would need confirmation of that. In any event the incidence of a Thai wife providing a retiree with the 800,000 baht seems to me fantasy and for all real purposes the it can be assumed the 800,000 will come from outside of Thailand.

So, to sum up, yes the money must come from outside of Thailand.

I understand that you have to prove you have income generated abroad that can meet the requirement. My point is that it seems someone can bring between 0 to 65k in to the country which messes with your figures as it's an unknown quantity.

I appreciate very few wives can stump up 800k. But the point was they can which again messes with your figures. Many retirees / over 50's have businesses here that they earn from. As far as I can see cash from those businesses could equally be used.

I know little about economics or GDP calculations but you've made some bold estimates of the monetary value retirees bring to Thailand. I believe it's an impossible calculation and even if possible would be far less than you claim.

No. You have to get the money from outside of Thailand. Anyway it does not mess up the numbers because the cases you mention are a rarity and would not significantly effect the numbers.

I didn't make any bold claims. I suggested people do the math and figure it out and suggested a method to compute the real total.

I know how much it is but don't expect you to believe my numbers. But I do expect if you don't believe me provide the appropriate data to establish a real number.

The real Thai GDP according to Bloomberg is 57% higher because of the grey market (or close to that) do you believe that? The immigration department at the airport steals 1.6 million baht per day do you believe that?

Thailand is full of unbelievable numbers. If the real GDP is twice what is listed then my 7% becomes actually 3.5% doesn't it? Sound more believable at 3.5%?

No you dont your factually incorrect

Further taken so much flack over over the 7% so lets just halve it to 3.5 % LOL your really that clueless aint you...?

keep halving dear boy and you will eventually get close

[lostoday]

No you dont your factually incorrect

Further taken so much flack over over the 7% so lets just halve it to 3.5 % LOL your really that clueless aint you...?

keep halving dear boy and you will eventually get close

Trolls mock. Posters present data and ideas. How many retirees live in Thailand and how much do they spend?

[lostoday]

To sum up your incorrect ...the 800k doesnt have to come from outside Thailand this is factually incorrect

No it's not. 800k has to come from outside Thailand. In any event it is a moot point because in point of fact 99.9% of the time it does come from outside of Thailand anyway. If you ever want to take it out of Thailand you may be required to prove that it came from outside of Thailand.

Of course this is all disingenuous distractions from admitting that Thailand does want retirees because of the large financial contribution they make to the Thai economy.

Edited September 10, 2015 by lostoday

[Soutpeel]

To sum up your incorrect ...the 800k doesnt have to come from outside Thailand this is factually incorrect

No it's not. 800k has to come from outside Thailand. In any event it is a moot point because in point of fact 99.9% of the time it does come from outside of Thailand anyway. If you ever want to take it out of Thailand you may be required to prove that it came from outside of Thailand.

Of course this is all disingenuous distractions from admitting that Thailand does want retirees because of the large financial contribution they make to the Thai economy.

No it doesnt you are factually incorrect,

all you have done on this thread is peddle incorrect facts, fiddled numbers and present misinformation

[Soutpeel]

No you dont your factually incorrect

Further taken so much flack over over the 7% so lets just halve it to 3.5 % LOL your really that clueless aint you...?

keep halving dear boy and you will eventually get close

Trolls mock. Posters present data and ideas. How many retirees live in Thailand and how much do they spend?

Easy work with 200k and USD 30k pa...

[lostoday]

To sum up your incorrect ...the 800k doesnt have to come from outside Thailand this is factually incorrect

No it's not. 800k has to come from outside Thailand. In any event it is a moot point because in point of fact 99.9% of the time it does come from outside of Thailand anyway. If you ever want to take it out of Thailand you may be required to prove that it came from outside of Thailand.

Of course this is all disingenuous distractions from admitting that Thailand does want retirees because of the large financial contribution they make to the Thai economy.

No it doesnt you are factually incorrect,

all you have done on this thread is peddle incorrect facts, fiddled numbers and present misinformation

Yes it does you are factually incorrect.

All you have done on this thread is peddle incorrect facts and presented no information to support your opinions.

How does it feel?

We could go back and forth like this for hours. Your opinion holds no weight. Frankly who cares?

If you want to debate present some viable data.

I know a lot of retired people because I work with a number of retired groups in Thailand.

The moderator told me not to explain how the economy works and the movement of money so about all I can tell you is look it up.

I associate with people like myself. Well to do retired folks who have a decent income and a mostly Western lifestyle in Thailand and that takes a minimum of 1 million baht per year.

I bring into Thailand and spend about 1 million baht per year. Look up money multiplier in basic economics to find out what my million baht will do for the money supply of Thailand.

I fail to see how much clearer I can get.

[Jingthing]

Fact. Money for bank qualifying retirement extensions does not need to come from outside Thailand. No amount of money needs to be imported on annual basis. Showing import one time is required for people who choose to start using the conversion to O visa option in Thailand.

But I agree that most retired expats do import money every year. The amounts vary widely.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Jingthing

[lostoday]

Fact. Money for bank qualifying retirement extensions does not need to come from Thailand. No money needs to be imported on annual basis. Showing import one time is required for people who choose to start using the conversion to O visa option in Thailand.

But I agree that most retired expats do import money every year. The amounts vary widely.

Now that you are here this may be your time to be famous with a retiree survey about spending habits. With the new owners and all that money floating around it couldn't hurt to have a successful poll going.

http://help.surveymonkey.com/articles/en_US/kb/How-many-respondents-do-I-need

[duanebigsby]

To me an interesting discussion in which it is not so easy to prove or disprove various claims of monetary contributions from farangs .

However , the point that intrigues me are the comments regarding significant contributions from retirees that I casually wrote in my first post.In the back of my mind was the correlation between Thai incomes and that of all farangs , ( not just westerners ) retirees included .

Btw , what percentage of the Thai population do you think actually work , i.e. bring home a regular income . Population is 67,000,000, approx; and ethnic Thais are 75% which is 50,000,000 , Answer = of those there are 38,000,000 working and how many are on the minimum wage ?

Food for thought

Yes it's the term significant which is confusing and I highly dispute 7% of GDP thrown out, or that overseas money has a multiplier of 10x..

But using your figures, 38 million Thais work. Let's assume for argument they ALL make minimum wage which is roughly 6200 baht per month. I would also say minimum wage earners spend every baht they earn.

The best guesstimates of farang here is 200 thousand of us. Assuming, wrongly, every single one is a retiree, we have to spend 190 times what every Thai worker spends.

That is 1,178,000 baht per month.

Most retirees spend that in a year.

If you really want to know it has been explained three times in the thread above. Sorry I don't want to get repetitive and be accused of trying to teach economics again.

No, you don't need to repeat how your bullshit economics and stats are teaching me anything.

We are a small drop in the bucket to Thailand's GDP compared to the millions of Thais here.

Not many retirees are spending a million baht a month here.