NRC votes No against draft charter

[rubl]

[

Your starting point should be at least somewhat believable, so let us not hypothise too much. Of course, if you think a military coup in the UK is not entirely unbelievable, who am I to say different.

As for lipstick on a pig, go ahead. Myself I'd like to talk a bit more about the NRC having rejected the draft charter crafted by the CDC. As I mentioned a few times already having started with the 2007 charter made much more sense. It was more-or-less known what deficiencies, what possible improvements could be applied. Pity really, a year lost.

Also, and again sorry to repeat, I still think an overwhelming participation by grassroots could have helped to get an improved charter. The NCPO would have looked silly if they had tried to prevent such overwhelming input.

You have missed the point or perhaps preferred not to acknowledge it.A constitution sponsored by a military government which illegally grabbed power can reasonably be seen as lacking any legitimacy.

I don't say it's wrong to work with the Junta, simply that there's a very good case not to work with it.In Western Europe ( the hypothetical case is very relevant) decent democrats wouldn't have any truck with it.I accept that in Thailand given the context it's more iffy hence my non dogmatic position.

I have no idea why you opt for the 2007 charter another military sponsored effort.Remarkably and to the chagrin of the generals it was only endorsed by the Thai public by a modest margin despite the government propaganda campaign,interference with the no campaign and the threat it would be implemented anyway.A weary public by a small margin said yes just to get the creeps out of the picture.Privately the Generals felt bitch slapped and they were right to sense that.

All reasonable people would of course use Khun Anand's excellent 1997 constitution as the starting point.

All reasonable people would start with the 2007 constitution as being 1997 with improvements. The last seven years have shown what other contentions parts there are are what other improvements are possible to come to a democracy and strengthen it.

"Thailand Law Journal 2009 Spring Issue 1 Volume 12

Deconstructing Thailand's (New) Eighteenth Constitution

Vitit Muntarbhorn"

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Thailand-Eighteeth-Consititution.html

[rubl]

There is an interesting article related to this subject in the August 22 Economist http://www.economist.com/printedition/2015-08-22, but if I gave more information this post would be deleted.

Interesting part is the fact (indeed fact) both sides have their own elite, even that 'fighter for the people' Thaksin.

Good point. If only there were some way to let the people choose which group of elites they wanted in charge, and maybe allow them to choose again every few years in case the majority of people change their minds. I wonder how that could be done.

If only we could find a peaceful way to have no elite in charge, neither the goods ones nor the bad ones.

[jayboy]

Prayut also has other options. Like start allover again, ask for cooperation and actually get it, start with the 2007 charter.

Of course in the mean time the Interim charter is still in place. We can't do without a charter, now can we ?

As for time on one's side. What is more important than a charter? People here have been demanding one.

I know this is going to divert attention, but why should groups of people who don't agree or see the coup as illegitimate 'cooperate' with them?

Indeed, indeed, especially since it's so much easier to complain afterwards about the result, say 'if only we could have participated'', 'if only someone asked', 'if only someone hadn't advocated non-obstruction by non-cooperation.

It works both ways.I understand the point you are trying to make but you can't put lipstick on a pig.

Let us hypothesise there was a military coup in the UK or Holland, and the generals involved (or their henchmen) tried to force through a constitution.Do you think it possible that principled Dutch or British democrats might refuse to have anything to do with the process - on the grounds that its origin was suffused in illegitimacy and illegality?

Your starting point should be at least somewhat believable, so let us not hypothise too much. Of course, if you think a military coup in the UK is not entirely unbelievable, who am I to say different.

As for lipstick on a pig, go ahead. Myself I'd like to talk a bit more about the NRC having rejected the draft charter crafted by the CDC. As I mentioned a few times already having started with the 2007 charter made much more sense. It was more-or-less known what deficiencies, what possible improvements could be applied. Pity really, a year lost.

Also, and again sorry to repeat, I still think an overwhelming participation by grassroots could have helped to get an improved charter. The NCPO would have looked silly if they had tried to prevent such overwhelming input.

All reasonable people would of course use Khun Anand's excellent 1997 constitution as the starting point.

How can any Constitution, whether the 1997 version or the 2007 version, which allowed elected governments to be taken down by mobs in the streets 3 times in the last 8 years be considered "excellent"?

I know the answer, because this is Ted and Bill's excellent adventure, right? What a farce!

Don't be silly.The marvellous American Constitution was promulgated in the late 18th Century and has with well considered amendments served the U.S. well to this day.

Nobody after the dreadful civil war in which millions of lives were lost felt it necessary to blame the constitution.

If you study how the Thai 1997 Constitution was originated and processed you will understand why it is infinitely superior to some regressive coupsters charter.Of course it can be amended to fit new circumstances but it is a better starting point.

[rubl]

[

So, in relation to the topic which generals in the NRC are 'suspiciously' wealthy and which of them got angry when asked where their money came from?

Prayuth did or have you forgotten that.

Rubl we all know you have a serious hard on for the PTP but do you seriously think that the Thai armies swollen upper ranks are all cleaner than clean and whiter than white then you truly are deluded.

Pray tell me what was suspicious, what was provided in information and how silent even distractors have become as nothing untoward has been found?

Apart from a math error in younger brother's asset declaration which showed 10 million too much (and probably earned his accountant team an attitude adjustment session).

Now as to wealth, didn't all NLA members and all Cabinet members submit asset declarations, just as if they were elected MP, Senators and such? Did you hear the opposition? They're not completely muzzled, enough true and dirty details could filter through.

As for the hard-on for PTP, you are mistaken, not even for their Thai pretty figurehead.

"Now as to wealth, didn't all NLA members and all Cabinet members submit asset declarations," - No, they did not! General P himself publicly stated that his finances, and those of the NRC were NOT to be examined. Why not? If he's so clean and pure, then he has nothing to hide. He even got pissed off at a reporter who dared to ask him about a 600 million baht land deal that had recently transpired. If you want to be a Junta supporter/puppet, that's your choice. Try try getting your facts straight first. And I've also noticed that you deliberately, and pointedly, avoid the subject when facts regarding the legitimacy of the government are put squarely in front of you.

Read again, I wrote "all NLA members and all Cabinet members".

AS for NRC members, the NACC ruled on the 21st of October 2014 that NRC members did not need to declare their assets as they just did their academic job and had no conflict of interest.

Now of course if you want to tell me that NRC voting 'no' would be must better explained if they had needed to declare assets I'm really interested in your reasoning.

AS for fact, the current government is legitimate by law, in te eyes of the law. I'm sure especially lawyers would like that not to be as that would require lots of paperwork to 'redo'.

[rubl]

Thais are getting real tired of the circus ruining the economy and the junta has nothing tangible to show for seizing power. I think the pm is realizing it's not easy to run the country with all its diverse problems. If he keeps power and this country continues at virtually no gdp growth, people having higher debt loads and investors avoiding this mess I think the actual Thais with real power will pull the plug on him. Also he puts off elections it's conceivable sanctions by the west are on the horizon like the USA has done specifically targeting Russian kleptocrats.

From what I hear Thai are getting annoyed with the West telling them what to do and how to behave and not just those Thai in power.

[baboon]

Thais are getting real tired of the circus ruining the economy and the junta has nothing tangible to show for seizing power. I think the pm is realizing it's not easy to run the country with all its diverse problems. If he keeps power and this country continues at virtually no gdp growth, people having higher debt loads and investors avoiding this mess I think the actual Thais with real power will pull the plug on him. Also he puts off elections it's conceivable sanctions by the west are on the horizon like the USA has done specifically targeting Russian kleptocrats.

From what I hear Thai are getting annoyed with the West telling them what to do and how to behave and not just those Thai in power.

So tell us what you heard and from whom.

[rubl]

[

With selective judgements from courts and useless policing, it doesn't matter what constitution they have.

Ah, the usual 'I don't like that decision' argument.

Anyway, the 'no' vote probably means I no longer need to search for an English translation.

[rubl]

Thais are getting real tired of the circus ruining the economy and the junta has nothing tangible to show for seizing power. I think the pm is realizing it's not easy to run the country with all its diverse problems. If he keeps power and this country continues at virtually no gdp growth, people having higher debt loads and investors avoiding this mess I think the actual Thais with real power will pull the plug on him. Also he puts off elections it's conceivable sanctions by the west are on the horizon like the USA has done specifically targeting Russian kleptocrats.

From what I hear Thai are getting annoyed with the West telling them what to do and how to behave and not just those Thai in power.

So tell us what you heard and from whom.

What I heard I wrote down.

Who told me? Obviously those who didn't tell Praematura.

[baboon]

Thais are getting real tired of the circus ruining the economy and the junta has nothing tangible to show for seizing power. I think the pm is realizing it's not easy to run the country with all its diverse problems. If he keeps power and this country continues at virtually no gdp growth, people having higher debt loads and investors avoiding this mess I think the actual Thais with real power will pull the plug on him. Also he puts off elections it's conceivable sanctions by the west are on the horizon like the USA has done specifically targeting Russian kleptocrats.

From what I hear Thai are getting annoyed with the West telling them what to do and how to behave and not just those Thai in power.

So tell us what you heard and from whom.

What I heard I wrote down.

Who told me? Obviously those who didn't tell Praematura.

Just making things up again. Cheers for the confirmation, however.

[rubl]

How can any Constitution, whether the 1997 version or the 2007 version, which allowed elected governments to be taken down by mobs in the streets 3 times in the last 8 years be considered "excellent"?

I know the answer, because this is Ted and Bill's excellent adventure, right? What a farce!

Don't be silly.The marvellous American Constitution was promulgated in the late 18th Century and has with well considered amendments served the U.S. well to this day.

Nobody after the dreadful civil war in which millions of lives were lost felt it necessary to blame the constitution.

If you study how the Thai 1997 Constitution was originated and processed you will understand why it is infinitely superior to some regressive coupsters charter.Of course it can be amended to fit new circumstances but it is a better starting point.

Oh come on jayboy, even eminent studied people at Thai universities stated the 2007 version being 90% or so the 1997 with a few loopholes closed, some strengthening of independent watchdog organisations. The last article a bit of a black blob, but not unexpected.

[rubl]

From what I hear Thai are getting annoyed with the West telling them what to do and how to behave and not just those Thai in power.

So tell us what you heard and from whom.

What I heard I wrote down.

Who told me? Obviously those who didn't tell Praematura.

Just making things up again. Cheers for the confirmation, however.

I've got my information from normal people I deal with on a daily base. None of them HiSo and only a few middle class.

Praemature just has 'Thai are ...".

You have stated before not to have a real interest and seem just your annoyingly self, baboon style as it were. Did I ever see valuable input from you in topic ?

Anyway, the NRC voted 'no' and lots of TVF posters happy.

[jesimps]

So now what? Despite publicly stating he was for the Charter I wouldn't be surprised if this is what the PM really wanted, a furtherance of the status quo with him at the helm.

Choices of the Thai people - Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Mr P certainly likes jam on both sides.

[lvr181]

The same old talk, talk, talk. Hardly anything ever done.

[trainman34014]

Those who think an election will be held within the next three years are dreaming; it could be five or more.

[jayboy]

How can any Constitution, whether the 1997 version or the 2007 version, which allowed elected governments to be taken down by mobs in the streets 3 times in the last 8 years be considered "excellent"?

I know the answer, because this is Ted and Bill's excellent adventure, right? What a farce!

Don't be silly.The marvellous American Constitution was promulgated in the late 18th Century and has with well considered amendments served the U.S. well to this day.

Nobody after the dreadful civil war in which millions of lives were lost felt it necessary to blame the constitution.

If you study how the Thai 1997 Constitution was originated and processed you will understand why it is infinitely superior to some regressive coupsters charter.Of course it can be amended to fit new circumstances but it is a better starting point.

Oh come on jayboy, even eminent studied people at Thai universities stated the 2007 version being 90% or so the 1997 with a few loopholes closed, some strengthening of independent watchdog organisations. The last article a bit of a black blob, but not unexpected.

Sorry that is not the view of most commentators.A little light research would acquaint you with the many drawbacks in about thirty minutes.In any event its (military) origin and lack of proper public consultation make it unacceptable or at least profoundly satisfactory.

Still I am grateful for the comic relief of your comment about eminent people who had studied at Thai universities.As though this description does not cover many of the clowns that have dragged Thailand almost to hell in a handcart.

[rubl]

How can any Constitution, whether the 1997 version or the 2007 version, which allowed elected governments to be taken down by mobs in the streets 3 times in the last 8 years be considered "excellent"?

I know the answer, because this is Ted and Bill's excellent adventure, right? What a farce!

Don't be silly.The marvellous American Constitution was promulgated in the late 18th Century and has with well considered amendments served the U.S. well to this day.

Nobody after the dreadful civil war in which millions of lives were lost felt it necessary to blame the constitution.

If you study how the Thai 1997 Constitution was originated and processed you will understand why it is infinitely superior to some regressive coupsters charter.Of course it can be amended to fit new circumstances but it is a better starting point.

Oh come on jayboy, even eminent studied people at Thai universities stated the 2007 version being 90% or so the 1997 with a few loopholes closed, some strengthening of independent watchdog organisations. The last article a bit of a black blob, but not unexpected.

Sorry that is not the view of most commentators.A little light research would acquaint you with the many drawbacks in about thirty minutes.In any event its (military) origin and lack of proper public consultation make it unacceptable or at least profoundly satisfactory.

Still I am grateful for the comic relief of your comment about eminent people who had studied at Thai universities.As though this description does not cover many of the clowns that have dragged Thailand almost to hell in a handcart.

Did you already check the link I provided, or are you more selective in your acceptance of commentators?

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Thailand-Eighteeth-Consititution.html

[heybruce]

Prayut also has other options. Like start allover again, ask for cooperation and actually get it, start with the 2007 charter.

Of course in the mean time the Interim charter is still in place. We can't do without a charter, now can we ?

As for time on one's side. What is more important than a charter? People here have been demanding one.

I know this is going to divert attention, but why should groups of people who don't agree or see the coup as illegitimate 'cooperate' with them?

Indeed, indeed, especially since it's so much easier to complain afterwards about the result, say 'if only we could have participated'', 'if only someone asked', 'if only someone hadn't advocated non-obstruction by non-cooperation.

It works both ways.I understand the point you are trying to make but you can't put lipstick on a pig.

Let us hypothesise there was a military coup in the UK or Holland, and the generals involved (or their henchmen) tried to force through a constitution.Do you think it possible that principled Dutch or British democrats might refuse to have anything to do with the process - on the grounds that its origin was suffused in illegitimacy and illegality?

Your starting point should be at least somewhat believable, so let us not hypothise too much. Of course, if you think a military coup in the UK is not entirely unbelievable, who am I to say different.

As for lipstick on a pig, go ahead. Myself I'd like to talk a bit more about the NRC having rejected the draft charter crafted by the CDC. As I mentioned a few times already having started with the 2007 charter made much more sense. It was more-or-less known what deficiencies, what possible improvements could be applied. Pity really, a year lost.

Also, and again sorry to repeat, I still think an overwhelming participation by grassroots could have helped to get an improved charter. The NCPO would have looked silly if they had tried to prevent such overwhelming input.

All reasonable people would of course use Khun Anand's excellent 1997 constitution as the starting point.

How can any Constitution, whether the 1997 version or the 2007 version, which allowed elected governments to be taken down by mobs in the streets 3 times in the last 8 years be considered "excellent"?

I know the answer, because this is Ted and Bill's excellent adventure, right? What a farce!

Actually it was the military that took down those governments, and only when prompted by mobs backed by a political party that can't win elections. When mobs opposing an unelected government took to the streets the military was quite bloody in it's crackdown.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Thais are getting real tired of the circus ruining the economy and the junta has nothing tangible to show for seizing power. I think the pm is realizing it's not easy to run the country with all its diverse problems. If he keeps power and this country continues at virtually no gdp growth, people having higher debt loads and investors avoiding this mess I think the actual Thais with real power will pull the plug on him. Also he puts off elections it's conceivable sanctions by the west are on the horizon like the USA has done specifically targeting Russian kleptocrats.

From what I hear Thai are getting annoyed with the West telling them what to do and how to behave and not just those Thai in power.

Last time there was even a minor challenge by the US on a topic not really all that important they fell over each other to show improvement. And no actual sanctions were even on the cards then, just a mild loss of face internationally.

Ultimately though it probably doesn't matter, and Western countries have bigger fish to fry at the moment than worrying about a country that mostly behaves reasonably well even under direct military rule.

The main challenge is internal; Reds have been on their best behavior since the coup and can keep on doing so. But everyone else roughly in the Democrat / Academic / Student camp will sooner or later begin to wonder if this is really what they wanted. And when they figure that out, it'll be 1973 / 76 / 92 again.

[Jon Wetherall]

Thais are getting real tired of the circus ruining the economy and the junta has nothing tangible to show for seizing power. I think the pm is realizing it's not easy to run the country with all its diverse problems. If he keeps power and this country continues at virtually no gdp growth, people having higher debt loads and investors avoiding this mess I think the actual Thais with real power will pull the plug on him. Also he puts off elections it's conceivable sanctions by the west are on the horizon like the USA has done specifically targeting Russian kleptocrats.

From what I hear Thai are getting annoyed with the West telling them what to do and how to behave and not just those Thai in power.

Some Thais are pretty insular and don't really have a concept of the global village. They haven't yet figured out that foreign countries can choose who to buy from or not.

Some Thais still have a bit of a "Thais are best" belief system, it comes from decades of being told just that. They can safely be ignored, though some will choose to listen to them no doubt.

[Eric Loh]

"As for the external factor, he pointed out at the widespread opposition to the draft which, he said, would lead to more conflict if the draft is allowed to go through."

Sounds almost democratic, what's wrong with him. Doesn't he know the NRC has been declared a mouthpiece for a fascist junta, and a few more lovely, endearing terms.

It's a government under military rule; democray doesn't exist. I would expect the NRC to exercise some discretion in making an important decision because of the composition of its members. With 77 from each provinces and 173 from 11 professional fields, they have less direct control by the military. Contrast with the NLA which is a mouthpiece as more than half are from the military.

Oh come on Eric, don't you know the NRC has been condemned by TVF's finest as being a junta mouthpiece ?

Anyway, the NRC voted against with PM Prayut being in favour. How's that for democracy?

Rubi, the junta is not too pleased with the NRC. The junta dictictorial demeanor will see the NRC removed and replaced with a reform steering assemble. NRC is deemed not loyal to the junta. How's that for democracy.

[AG1]

No Surprise about this Decision. This is still Thailand, and managed by Thais, and the Way they solve Problems is sometimes a bid more complicated then usual ?.

Two Steps forward and one Step back....., three Steps backwards and a half Step forward...., five Rounds in the Circle....., a Handstand with one Arm....., four Salto Mortale......., three Fortune Teller Consultations.....and the new and perfect Constitution is almost done!

[metisdead]

Off topic deflection posts and replies have been removed.

[jayboy]

How can any Constitution, whether the 1997 version or the 2007 version, which allowed elected governments to be taken down by mobs in the streets 3 times in the last 8 years be considered "excellent"?

I know the answer, because this is Ted and Bill's excellent adventure, right? What a farce!

Don't be silly.The marvellous American Constitution was promulgated in the late 18th Century and has with well considered amendments served the U.S. well to this day.

Nobody after the dreadful civil war in which millions of lives were lost felt it necessary to blame the constitution.

If you study how the Thai 1997 Constitution was originated and processed you will understand why it is infinitely superior to some regressive coupsters charter.Of course it can be amended to fit new circumstances but it is a better starting point.

Oh come on jayboy, even eminent studied people at Thai universities stated the 2007 version being 90% or so the 1997 with a few loopholes closed, some strengthening of independent watchdog organisations. The last article a bit of a black blob, but not unexpected.

Sorry that is not the view of most commentators.A little light research would acquaint you with the many drawbacks in about thirty minutes.In any event its (military) origin and lack of proper public consultation make it unacceptable or at least profoundly satisfactory.

Still I am grateful for the comic relief of your comment about eminent people who had studied at Thai universities.As though this description does not cover many of the clowns that have dragged Thailand almost to hell in a handcart.

Did you already check the link I provided, or are you more selective in your acceptance of commentators?

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Thailand-Eighteeth-Consititution.html

It's a perfectly fair article which actually supports and expands on my position on the Constitution's defects.

[MZurf]

Thais are getting real tired of the circus ruining the economy and the junta has nothing tangible to show for seizing power. I think the pm is realizing it's not easy to run the country with all its diverse problems. If he keeps power and this country continues at virtually no gdp growth, people having higher debt loads and investors avoiding this mess I think the actual Thais with real power will pull the plug on him. Also he puts off elections it's conceivable sanctions by the west are on the horizon like the USA has done specifically targeting Russian kleptocrats.

From what I hear Thai are getting annoyed with the West telling them what to do and how to behave and not just those Thai in power.

Here's a newsflash for you. The Thais have never been fond of being told what to do by the West (or anyone else). Not before the rule of the bogeyman, not during, and not now.

Dealing with criticism is not a well developed trait in Thailand and has nothing to do with the current political situation. Of course, lately they have received a lot more criticism (and rightly so) resulting in a lot more titties being twisted.

[Melyn]

Another turn in Thailand's ultimate waiting game

[Jon Wetherall]

"As for the external factor, he pointed out at the widespread opposition to the draft which, he said, would lead to more conflict if the draft is allowed to go through."

Sounds almost democratic, what's wrong with him. Doesn't he know the NRC has been declared a mouthpiece for a fascist junta, and a few more lovely, endearing terms.

It's a government under military rule; democray doesn't exist. I would expect the NRC to exercise some discretion in making an important decision because of the composition of its members. With 77 from each provinces and 173 from 11 professional fields, they have less direct control by the military. Contrast with the NLA which is a mouthpiece as more than half are from the military.

Oh come on Eric, don't you know the NRC has been condemned by TVF's finest as being a junta mouthpiece ?

Anyway, the NRC voted against with PM Prayut being in favour. How's that for democracy?

Rubi, the junta is not too pleased with the NRC. The junta dictictorial demeanor will see the NRC removed and replaced with a reform steering assemble. NRC is deemed not loyal to the junta. How's that for democracy.

I'm inclined to agree Eric, I don't buy the whole 'Prayuth wanted the draft charter to be voted down" and "the army wallahs voted against so they must have been following orders" things, If he did, he would not have made some of the comments he made prior to the vote, most of which have been discussed here.

I think he's angry as hell at what he probably sees as a betrayal. The Thai people however, at least those whom I know, are pretty happy to see him lose some more face.

I wouldn't be surprised if Prayuth ended up getting tipped out because of this and other farces he's presided over, though how that might happen I don't know. Maybe this is a pretext to hoist Prawit into the big chair, though I think he would be even more of a disaster. Or Paochinda, God help us for even thinking it.

I give no credence at all to the weasel words that say Prem and Prayuth have patched up their differences, Neither one is the forgiving kind, Prayuth might be at risk.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Jon Wetherall

[h90]

This could be the result the PM wanted.

No doubt... another 2 years to "sort the country out", is what this means...

two more years without Thaksin or Yaowapa.

While I am not pleased with Prayuts performance so far, he is still the best PM of the last 15 years....(not so much competition...)

[h90]

It's a government under military rule; democray doesn't exist. I would expect the NRC to exercise some discretion in making an important decision because of the composition of its members. With 77 from each provinces and 173 from 11 professional fields, they have less direct control by the military. Contrast with the NLA which is a mouthpiece as more than half are from the military.

Oh come on Eric, don't you know the NRC has been condemned by TVF's finest as being a junta mouthpiece ?

Anyway, the NRC voted against with PM Prayut being in favour. How's that for democracy?

Rubi, the junta is not too pleased with the NRC. The junta dictictorial demeanor will see the NRC removed and replaced with a reform steering assemble. NRC is deemed not loyal to the junta. How's that for democracy.

I'm inclined to agree Eric, I don't buy the whole 'Prayuth wanted the draft charter to be voted down" and "the army wallahs voted against so they must have been following orders" things, If he did, he would not have made some of the comments he made prior to the vote, most of which have been discussed here.

I think he's angry as hell at what he probably sees as a betrayal. The Thai people however, at least those whom I know, are pretty happy to see him lose some more face.

I wouldn't be surprised if Prayuth ended up getting tipped out because of this and other farces he's presided over, though how that might happen I don't know. Maybe this is a pretext to hoist Prawit into the big chair, though I think he would be even more of a disaster. Or Paochinda, God help us for even thinking it.

I give no credence at all to the weasel words that say Prem and Prayuth have patched up their differences, Neither one is the forgiving kind, Prayuth might be at risk.

I would easily believe that Prayuth get some internal problems. While I think he is honest and trying his best, he is intellectually not up to the task. And he can't find people who follow up things.....not even small things like the taxi mafia or the chairs on the beach in Phuket. If you are a military dictator and you can't even scare a taxi driver than you make something wrong.

[scotinsiam]

lol

[Jon Wetherall]

Oh come on Eric, don't you know the NRC has been condemned by TVF's finest as being a junta mouthpiece ?

Anyway, the NRC voted against with PM Prayut being in favour. How's that for democracy?

Rubi, the junta is not too pleased with the NRC. The junta dictictorial demeanor will see the NRC removed and replaced with a reform steering assemble. NRC is deemed not loyal to the junta. How's that for democracy.

I'm inclined to agree Eric, I don't buy the whole 'Prayuth wanted the draft charter to be voted down" and "the army wallahs voted against so they must have been following orders" things, If he did, he would not have made some of the comments he made prior to the vote, most of which have been discussed here.

I think he's angry as hell at what he probably sees as a betrayal. The Thai people however, at least those whom I know, are pretty happy to see him lose some more face.

I wouldn't be surprised if Prayuth ended up getting tipped out because of this and other farces he's presided over, though how that might happen I don't know. Maybe this is a pretext to hoist Prawit into the big chair, though I think he would be even more of a disaster. Or Paochinda, God help us for even thinking it.

I give no credence at all to the weasel words that say Prem and Prayuth have patched up their differences, Neither one is the forgiving kind, Prayuth might be at risk.

I would easily believe that Prayuth get some internal problems. While I think he is honest and trying his best, he is intellectually not up to the task. And he can't find people who follow up things.....not even small things like the taxi mafia or the chairs on the beach in Phuket. If you are a military dictator and you can't even scare a taxi driver than you make something wrong.

Well I agree he is not intellectually up to the job, which is doubtless why he took the job in the first place, I don't agree he is honest or doing his best for the country either. Remember he is army and I doubt there is a single Army chief who has not been both on the take and distributed the take to buy loyalty. He can be relied upon only to do his best for what he thinks is the country's interests but which in reality is the same rich and powerful who have been raping Thailand for decades and who would quite like to continue doing so. Thus is his stupidity, but he is far from being alone in Thailand, the whole place is corrupt and rotting from the inside out. But anyway, Prayuth got his orders and has been dumb enough to follow them.

This will not end well for any of the 4 Mr P's, and they will be remembered very poorly, along with notable others.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Jon Wetherall