Former DPM Kittirat defends rice pledging and first car programmes

[Thai at Heart]

"Regarding the 500 billion baht in damages caused by the scheme, Mr Kittirat defended that the amount was well within the five percent ceiling of the annual budget"

Absolutely amazing. His defence against the massive corruption is that it was taken from an approved budget. I think that corruption is so normal for him and the other dirty cronies, it doesn't even occur to him it should have been given to the farmers.

I have nothing but contempt for these thieves and liars. They should be in jail for abuse of power after the amnesty disgrace. The problem is, I expect the next lot will only be marginally better.

What massive corruption?

Are you serious ?.

The 500 billion which disappeared from the expenditure of 600 billion.

But I think you knew that already. Shame on you.

It didn't disappear, it was lost through spending more than was recouped. You do understand a loss right?

And the total spend was far in excess of 600bn. Virtually no one on here even understands that 15k per tonne to the farmer makes 25k per tonne ex factory due to yield losses...... Then add storage for years, add add and that's how u lose 500bn

Edited September 10, 2015 by Thai at Heart

[scorecard]

Hmmm...those rice farmers benefited so much that a number of them committed suicide over it...due to the self-financing mechanism...

And there have been recent media articles saying that poor farmers are now in even more debt.

Not forgetting that a large % of poor farmers couldn't even join the scam get rich quick club.

[EnglishJohn]

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha has misunderstood the rice pledging scheme and the first-car programme probably because he was misinformed by the previous economic team, said former deputy prime minister Kittirat NaRanong on Thursday.

LOL, all know that the main purpose of all Shins sponsored government are corruption,misappropriation of public goods, despotism and terrorism.....

Everyone knows that, Homer Simpson told me so it must be true.

Everybody knows it and the hypocrites deny it. Maybe because they got a bit of it too - or are hopeful for a bit sometime in the future if they can get back in.

I was talking to the guy at the embassy when I was getting my last visa and I mentioned how much better Thailand was under the Junta than Pheu-Thai. He told me that everyone else was saying the same thing. The consensus was that corruption was a free-for-all under the last government and now someone was doing something about it. It seems all those educated farang + Homer Simpson are wrong and you are right.

My, you are racking up the posts as fast as you can - and all containing attempted sarcastic dribble in support of Pheu-Thai. Do you also work for Bangkok Post by any chance ?. Their forums filled up with comments like yours virtually overnight just after the protests started. It was quite funny - they were so stupid, they didn't even vary the writing style between users.

[ianf]

How do you know, when politicions are lying? There lips are moving!

How do you know when politicians are lying? Their lips are moving. Oh! I see!!!!!

[chainarong]

If Khun Kittirat takes the time to notice the majority on TV Forum say Vote buying , so if it is here, it's everywhere.

[Eric Loh]

Not only did the farmers deserve better, the electorate deserved better. There was no transparency to the scheme. There was never a parliamentary vote to appropriate more money for the scheme because of the tremendous losses it was incurring. If there had been such a vote, a proper audit and accounting would have needed to be submitted. You fleeced the electorate without their knowledge and consent.

I'm sure the rice buying scheme was poorly thought out, badly managed and riddled with corruption, so obviously it's much better to have an unelected government that doesn't need a parliamentary vote (or any other vote for that matter) because then no one can accuse them of abuse of power or mismanagement, right?

Because if you answer to no one and even grant yourself an amnesty then you're golden, right??

At least the current government put the farmer subsidy scheme as reservation in the National Budget, rather than proclaiming it "self-financing'

Interesting how former MoF 'little while lies' Kittirat uses his selective memory to defend the scam.

Rubi, the international credit rating seem unperturbed and maintained their BBB+ rating with a stable outlook. The debt to GDP ratio was a decent 45.7% in 2013. Are you purposefully ignoring the bigger picture?

Does that justify losing 500 to 700++ billion Baht on a scheme positioned as 'self-financing' ? Are you implying that because of the financial situation the Yingluck government could throw away such money even if they had to lie about it?

You keep saying losing and 500B is a very big amount to be ignored by the credit agencies. Sovereign debt has a heavy weightage on a country rating assesment. A loss by Malaysia MDB1 debt of similar amount was picked up by the rating agencies and was threatened with a downgrade. We still have not known the exact nett loss and you know that. Some of that has went into the wider domestic economy. The rating agencies acknowledge the latter and maintained the ratings of BBB+ and a stable outlook. The debt has been amplified by the junta to justify their coup.

[jerojero]

Idiot. B. S. 'nuff said.

[MZurf]

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha has misunderstood the rice pledging scheme and the first-car programme probably because he was misinformed by the previous economic team, said former deputy prime minister Kittirat NaRanong on Thursday.

LOL, all know that the main purpose of all Shins sponsored government are corruption,misappropriation of public goods, despotism and terrorism.....

Everyone knows that, Homer Simpson told me so it must be true.

Everybody knows it and the hypocrites deny it. Maybe because they got a bit of it too - or are hopeful for a bit sometime in the future if they can get back in.

I was talking to the guy at the embassy when I was getting my last visa and I mentioned how much better Thailand was under the Junta than Pheu-Thai. He told me that everyone else was saying the same thing. The consensus was that corruption was a free-for-all under the last government and now someone was doing something about it. It seems all those educated farang + Homer Simpson are wrong and you are right.

My, you are racking up the posts as fast as you can - and all containing attempted sarcastic dribble in support of Pheu-Thai. Do you also work for Bangkok Post by any chance ?. Their forums filled up with comments like yours virtually overnight just after the protests started. It was quite funny - they were so stupid, they didn't even vary the writing style between users.

"Everybody knows it..."

"I was talking to the guy at the embassy..."

Well, that's conclusive proof then

[Jon Wetherall]

Idiot. B. S. 'nuff said.

Well argued. Impressive.

[SOTIRIOS]

...how does one 'explain' a scam....without incriminating oneself.....

[Jon Wetherall]

LOL, all know that the main purpose of all Shins sponsored government are corruption,misappropriation of public goods, despotism and terrorism.....

Everyone knows that, Homer Simpson told me so it must be true.

Everybody knows it and the hypocrites deny it. Maybe because they got a bit of it too - or are hopeful for a bit sometime in the future if they can get back in.

I was talking to the guy at the embassy when I was getting my last visa and I mentioned how much better Thailand was under the Junta than Pheu-Thai. He told me that everyone else was saying the same thing. The consensus was that corruption was a free-for-all under the last government and now someone was doing something about it. It seems all those educated farang + Homer Simpson are wrong and you are right.

My, you are racking up the posts as fast as you can - and all containing attempted sarcastic dribble in support of Pheu-Thai. Do you also work for Bangkok Post by any chance ?. Their forums filled up with comments like yours virtually overnight just after the protests started. It was quite funny - they were so stupid, they didn't even vary the writing style between users.

"Everybody knows it..."

"I was talking to the guy at the embassy..."

Well, that's conclusive proof then

"Everybody knows it"

Right. Maybe Homer told them all?

Oh. He told you in confidence? Sorry. Homer's a bit garrulous. And not very bright.

[wvavin]

This Kittirat is nothing but a boot licker!

[jerojero]

Idiot. B. S. 'nuff said.

Well argued. Impressive.

Superb retort.

[LNKDES1]

Exactly what planet are you from Mr. Kittirat?

[tomacht8]

M.R. Pridiyathorn recalled Mr Kittirat’s “white lies” to now “black lies” when he kept on lying about the failed rice-pledging scheme, saying he seemed to be a habitual liar who lies all the time as if he were not yet grown up enough to be an adult.

He said Mr Kittirat is a failed person with no capability since he started to take on the rice-pledging scheme in October last year.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/702759-pridiyathorn-tells-kittirat-to-stop-lying/

[ikke]

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha has misunderstood the rice pledging scheme and the first-car programme probably because he was misinformed by the previous economic team, said former deputy prime minister Kittirat NaRanong on Thursday.

LOL, all know that the main purpose of all Shins sponsored government are corruption,misappropriation of public goods, despotism and terrorism.....

Everyone knows that, Homer Simpson told me so it must be true.

Everybody knows it and the hypocrites deny it. Maybe because they got a bit of it too - or are hopeful for a bit sometime in the future if they can get back in.

I was talking to the guy at the embassy when I was getting my last visa and I mentioned how much better Thailand was under the Junta than Pheu-Thai. He told me that everyone else was saying the same thing. The consensus was that corruption was a free-for-all under the last government and now someone was doing something about it. It seems all those educated farang + Homer Simpson are wrong and you are right.

My, you are racking up the posts as fast as you can - and all containing attempted sarcastic dribble in support of Pheu-Thai. Do you also work for Bangkok Post by any chance ?. Their forums filled up with comments like yours virtually overnight just after the protests started. It was quite funny - they were so stupid, they didn't even vary the writing style between users.

You count yourself with the educated ?

You still have to go an embassy to get your visa ?

Just asking....

[rubl]

Does that justify losing 500 to 700++ billion Baht on a scheme positioned as 'self-financing' ? Are you implying that because of the financial situation the Yingluck government could throw away such money even if they had to lie about it?

You keep saying losing and 500B is a very big amount to be ignored by the credit agencies. Sovereign debt has a heavy weightage on a country rating assesment. A loss by Malaysia MDB1 debt of similar amount was picked up by the rating agencies and was threatened with a downgrade. We still have not known the exact nett loss and you know that. Some of that has went into the wider domestic economy. The rating agencies acknowledge the latter and maintained the ratings of BBB+ and a stable outlook. The debt has been amplified by the junta to justify their coup.

Eric, the topic here is not whether or not a loss of 500 billion Baht or more has effect on Thailand sovereign status. The topic is a former Minister of Finance trying to justice the RPPS and other schemes while ignoring he himself had defended the scheme as 'self-financing' with money spent being regained through sales. The 'self-financing' status was used to keep the funds needed initially out of the National Budget to 'avoid' distortion.

The debt has been scheduled to be repaid, as seven yearly reservations of 107 billion Baht in the National Budget. That money could have been available for measures to stimulate the economy. That money was lost on a 'self-financing' scam instead. That's criminal.

[Naroge]

"The scheme helped more people to own their first cars at affordable prices and the tax rebate, up to a maximum of 100,000 baht, which were returned to the car buyers was, in fact, paid by the buyers when they bought the cars and did not come from the treasury."

WHAT? Which university teaches this kind of economics?

Why not go full out and return the whole amount as it anyway was paid by the buyer in the first place?

[billd766]

Everyone knows that, Homer Simpson told me so it must be true.

Everybody knows it and the hypocrites deny it. Maybe because they got a bit of it too - or are hopeful for a bit sometime in the future if they can get back in.

I was talking to the guy at the embassy when I was getting my last visa and I mentioned how much better Thailand was under the Junta than Pheu-Thai. He told me that everyone else was saying the same thing. The consensus was that corruption was a free-for-all under the last government and now someone was doing something about it. It seems all those educated farang + Homer Simpson are wrong and you are right.

My, you are racking up the posts as fast as you can - and all containing attempted sarcastic dribble in support of Pheu-Thai. Do you also work for Bangkok Post by any chance ?. Their forums filled up with comments like yours virtually overnight just after the protests started. It was quite funny - they were so stupid, they didn't even vary the writing style between users.

You count yourself with the educated ?

You still have to go an embassy to get your visa ?

Just asking....

plus a very poor attempt at deflection and a cheap insult. Not even down to your poor standards level.

Could do better and MUST try harder.

[tomacht8]

"The scheme helped more people to own their first cars at affordable prices and the tax rebate, up to a maximum of 100,000 baht, which were returned to the car buyers was, in fact, paid by the buyers when they bought the cars and did not come from the treasury."

WHAT? Which university teaches this kind of economics?

Why not go full out and return the whole amount as it anyway was paid by the buyer in the first place?

...100,000 baht, which were returned to the car buyers was, in fact, paid by the buyers when they bought the cars.

In other words, the car buyers were cheated.

That's just a confession!

He digs its own grave.

[ableguy]

He claimed that 3.7 million farming households or 23 percent of the population have benefited from the rice pledging scheme directly and indirectly and the rice pledging price, 15,000 baht per tonne of paddy, was not excessive when the production costs were taken into consideration and the farmers deserved it.

"the farmers deserved it" Actually they deserved better than that, and one of the things they deserved was to be paid. They also deserved the truth, but we all know that is too much to expect from this guy.

What that nice Mr Kittirat forgot to mention was that buying the rice was the cheapest part of the deal.

He skipped over

1 the storage costs,

2 the transportation costs

3 the fact that a lot of the rice wasn't actually there when a full audit was carried out,

4 the phantom G2G deals

5 the fact that the rice was actually too expensive to sell

6 the fact that a lot of the rice (even in storage) has rotted

7 the fact that there is still a few million tonnes of rice left over and not sold yet

8 the fact that many of the poorest farmers (the ones that the scheme was allegedly all about) weren't involved in the scheme at all

I am sure I could find a few more if I put my mind to it.

You missed out all the rice bought in Vietnam and trucked over the border sold to the government as Thai grown, millions made in the process.

[Baerboxer]

Just a simple case of misunderstanding. Every PTP "policy" and scheme delivered massive social benefits and all were financially better off.

Let's take an average Thai family - say the Shiniwattras. During the PTP government years their wealth increased 450% - as confirmed by their patriarch to Forbes

Wow! During a time of economic turmoil in the world, a 450% increase in family wealth.

See, PTP policies delivered results.

Mr. K is a proven and self confessed liar. Why anyone even gives his the time of day is hard to understand. Maybe he will be a witness for Yingluck and if so, hopefully, actually present the real accounts...................... fat chance!

[Halion]

The man is a dip shit and and a liar at best at best

[ourmanflint]

If there was one guy I would like to see behind bars it's this guy! Don't ask me why..

[Jonmarleesco]

Presumably, then, several million reasonably intelligent people also 'misunderstood' the two schemes. Or perhaps Kittirat grossly overestimates his own abilities, while underestimating his own incompetence.

[MaxLee]

If there was one guy I would like to see behind bars it's this guy! Don't ask me why..

Never gonna happen......

[craigt3365]

The first car buyer scheme was done to help the car companies that lost money during the floods. Floods which were partially caused by a politician not allowing water to be released from the dams so his area could do 2 plantings.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/837187-tdris-niphon-blames-political-interference-in-2011-for-todays-water-crisis/

I can't find the link, but I think the Post did an article showing something crazy like 200,000 cars could have been given out for free to all those farmers and it would have been cheaper! LOL

[Srikcir]

If one condemns Kittirat and the PTP regime for the "waste" of funds created by the rice pledge program, then one must also condemn the Prayut regime for the same waste of funds created by all his populist programs aimed largely at the farmers and low income peoples.

When you add the economic losses resulting from the government shutdown by the PDRC, the military coup, the failures of Prayut's economic policies, and Prayut's domestic & foreign political misadventures over only a 14-month period you about double the loss to the Thai people compared to Yingluck's rice pledge and First Car Buyer programs. Unfortunately, the Prayut regime is not finished.

Both regimes have sought to benefit the Thai people. Both regimes conducted programs with little or no accountability or transparency. Both regimes were motivated to seek the support of the Thai constituency for their efforts to stay in power (albeit not with the same constituency!). While Yingluck's regime brought tyranny through mismanagement, the Prayut regime brought it through absolute power.

The Thai people paid a heavy price for both regimes. It is time that the Thai electorate repair, change and innovate how it is governed. History is a good teacher but only the present will create a better future. A regurgitation of failures will never satisfy the hunger for social and economic equality.

[hugh2121]

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha has misunderstood the rice pledging scheme and the first-car programme probably because he was misinformed by the previous economic team, said former deputy prime minister Kittirat NaRanong on Thursday.

LOL, all know that the main purpose of all Shins sponsored government are corruption,misappropriation of public goods, despotism and terrorism.....

Yeah, Abhisit and Sutthep were so much better.

[rubl]

If one condemns Kittirat and the PTP regime for the "waste" of funds created by the rice pledge program, then one must also condemn the Prayut regime for the same waste of funds created by all his populist programs aimed largely at the farmers and low income peoples.

When you add the economic losses resulting from the government shutdown by the PDRC, the military coup, the failures of Prayut's economic policies, and Prayut's domestic & foreign political misadventures over only a 14-month period you about double the loss to the Thai people compared to Yingluck's rice pledge and First Car Buyer programs. Unfortunately, the Prayut regime is not finished.

Both regimes have sought to benefit the Thai people. Both regimes conducted programs with little or no accountability or transparency. Both regimes were motivated to seek the support of the Thai constituency for their efforts to stay in power (albeit not with the same constituency!). While Yingluck's regime brought tyranny through mismanagement, the Prayut regime brought it through absolute power.

The Thai people paid a heavy price for both regimes. It is time that the Thai electorate repair, change and innovate how it is governed. History is a good teacher but only the present will create a better future. A regurgitation of failures will never satisfy the hunger for social and economic equality.

Actually one condemns Kittirat and the PTP regime for lying, cheating and criminally defrauding the State of 500 billion Baht or more.

The rest is just a poor attempt at deflection from the topic.