Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[Rykbanlor]

As I recall , the sperm in the vagina of Miss Witheridge did match the defendants .

The bone of contention here is that this has not been categorically proven using proper chain of custody. It has only been verbally stated in court by an investigating officer.

The word of a cop won't go far in this forum.

Also, the collection of samples has been criticised and no forensic pathologist was present to do it.

[mikiea]

We were expecting some breaking news from Dr Pornthip but this is more explosive than I thought, and we have still got to hear the other evidence from the UK! There's enough now to call a complete halt to these unjust and farcical proceedings

do not count on any UK findings........if they were being right about it , something would of already been said . and that is the plain fact of the matter .

[razer]

Just strengthens the conspiracy theory that the police covered up the crime to save some powerful local yokel.

[boomerangutang]

Will Ms Pontip talk about DNA typings taken from Hannah's body? Supposedly, there were 3 typings, and that's the main evidence the RTP and Prosecution are basing their case upon: the match-ups between the B2's and the DNA found in/on Hannah. Even if RTP claim it's 'used-up' or missing, surely/hopefully Brit forensics has those typings. That's one of the few things Brit forensics are required to do.

Interesting that RTP chief investigator said he there's no record of Nomsod's DNA typing (or he doesn't know where it is). I believe he also said RTP doesn't know if there was ever a match, as RTP didn't follow the trail. In other words, that press conference with NS and the lab techie - was probably just a big ruse, like nearly everything else RTP has orchestrated. Well, the Thai public is easily duped (they voted for Shinawatrees several times, any more proof needed?), but us farang don't forget as easily.

I'd like to see/hear Ms Pontip speak about the 900 lb gorilla taking a poop in the middle of the courtroom. Namely: get verified typing of the DNA found in/on Hannah, and compare it to DNA from those who should be prime suspects: Mon, Nomsod, and their tough-guy buddies who wear shark tooth rings and show-off their guns on FB, and who posed with little hoes after the crime, and who've been known to rape farang girls on the beach. Round 'em up. Test 'em. Compare their DNA with that found in Hannah. As the PM said, "If they match, they are probably the rapists and killers." (though the PM didn't use the word 'probably').

[smedly]

As I recall , the sperm in the vagina of Miss Witheridge did match the defendants .

show me the samples and I will believe once they are retested, if they cannot show the evidence then is is simply meaningless nonesense and is exactly why this whole case is .....nonesense

[Ajahnski]

Again poor inept police work. From the beginning I was not convinced these 2 where guilty. Its clear now that they are not. They need to be compensated and the police need to

publicly apologize to them . They need to be granted Thai citizenship and be made whole again

And now the real murder is walking free

This is soooooo sad

Granted Thai citizenship? Do you want to make them whole or punish them for the rest of their lives?

[churchill]

Just strengthens the conspiracy theory that the police covered up the crime to save some powerful local yokel.

Yes …What a Joke

Too much money being passed around …..

[quandow]

Let them go now, it is plain as day that these two Burmese lads are just scapegoats, the sad thing is the real killers are still out there.

Agreed - with compensation !

I suspect those lads would be most happy to just quietly ride off into the sunset.

[happy Joe]

Perfect example of non-event.

The police never said that DNA of the hoe to substantiate charge. Instead they declared that this hoe was washed and then manipulated by several people making impossible the exploitation.

Only DNA cigarette, the condom and especially sperm collected to inside the body of H. Witheridge correspond to those of two accused .

So needless to shake you like old flies on a fresh crap. This announcement is a blaring false news propageted by the defense that has so far no really convincing element to support 2B.

[thailandchilli]

First of all this damning DNA Evidence is not mine. It belongs to the Prosecutor. I hold no DNA Evidence on anyone whatsoever.

If you chose to believe that this DNA Evidence is only a verbal statement in court, then go ahead, as this would be wrong. But you are entitled to believe whatever you want to.

The hoe in itself is a moot point even with someones else's DNA on it. If you could prove through Ballistics that the murder weapon was a gun, but yet several people afterwards handled this gun and their finger prints were on it even if the accused wasn't, does it prove one of them others killed this person? Or does it open the possibility that someone wiped his finger prints off, who actually did the crime?

If you read this full article you would have seen that the Prosecution does not agree with you.That they do in fact believe they have evidence that links the accused to Hannah and it was presented. If you have a beef about that then I suggest you contact them for a correction.

Yes, I am quite sure the prosecution does not agree with me, nor I them and I do not believe that without the proper chain of custody (as the defence complained was not provided ) that the DNA samples form the victim can be trusted.

Also, try to catch up to speed with figures of speech.

Fair enough!

So now the Defense has an opportunity to prove that this Chain of Custody was not followed, instead of just complain about it to the media.

Difficult to do that if the RTP refuse to hand over the document:

The defense lawyers have expressed concern about their inability to access ‘chains of custody’ from the investigation, which are documents tracking the collection, movement, processing, and current location of all physical evidence. The lawyers, who have requested the documents but not recieved them, said they want to confirm that no evidence was tampered with in the process. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064

[Thongkorn]

Let them go now, it is plain as day that these two Burmese lads are just scapegoats, the sad thing is the real killers are still out there.

Agreed - with compensation !

I suspect those lads would be most happy to just quietly ride off into the sunset.

Now that they have the attention of the world's media< i would sue the arse off the Thai Government then go home and live like a KING.

[Equalizer]

I stand corrected! My Apologies Dr Porntip Rojanasunand. Your a brave woman!!

[webfact]

Witness casts doubt on evidence at Thai tourist murder trial

BANGKOK (AP) — An expert witness at the trial of two Burmese workers accused of killing two British tourists in Thailand testified Friday that DNA found on what police say was the murder weapon does not belong to the defendants.

Autopsies showed that 24-year-old David Miller and 23-year-old Hannah Witheridge suffered severe head wounds and that Witheridge was raped in September last year. The prosecution says DNA found in semen links the two accused migrant workers to the crime.

The testimony by head of Thailand's Central Institute for Forensic Science Porntip Rojanasunand seconded criticism that police mishandled evidence, including the hoe the authorities say was the murder weapon.

The defendants say they were tortured into making false confessions.

Porntip testified that the hoe contained DNA from two males, but not the suspects.

The point of her testimony seemed to be to discredit the police investigation and cast doubt on the rest of the prosecution case. She is a celebrity in Thailand who has written books about her work. However, she is also controversial because her findings in in several high-profile cases contradicted those of the police, leading to a long-running feud.

The two defendants, Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, both 22, were arrested in early October, after police carried out DNA tests on more than 200 people on Koh Tao, a scenic island in the Gulf of Thailand known for its scuba diving. The trial is taking place on the bigger nearby island of Koh Samui.

Human rights groups repeatedly called for an independent investigation and raised concerns that the men might be scapegoats, partly because as migrant workers they are discriminated against.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-09-14

[Rykbanlor]

Perfect example of non-event.

The police never said that DNA of the hoe to substantiate charge. Instead they declared that this hoe was washed and then manipulated by several people making impossible the exploitation.

Only DNA cigarette, the condom and especially sperm collected to inside the body of H. Witheridge correspond to those of two accused .

So needless to shake you like old flies on a fresh crap. This announcement is a blaring false news propageted by the defense that has so far no really convincing element to support 2B.

The Police claimed the Hoe had been washed and manipulated by several people???

And yet they don't question the motive of whoever did this? It obviously wasn't the B2 who did this.

[KunMatt]

Perfect example of non-event.

The police never said that DNA of the hoe to substantiate charge. Instead they declared that this hoe was washed and then manipulated by several people making impossible the exploitation.

Only DNA cigarette, the condom and especially sperm collected to inside the body of H. Witheridge correspond to those of two accused .

So needless to shake you like old flies on a fresh crap. This announcement is a blaring false news propageted by the defense that has so far no really convincing element to support 2B.

Except that the RTP have always said that this hoe was the murder weapon for the 2 victims and now the defense have proved that there are 2 DNA samples on it which are no the accused. So the murder weapon is not totally clean of any DNA, it just doesn't have either of the B2 on it which is a pretty big deal when it is stated that it was used to kill 2 people by them.

[Basil B]

Let them go now, it is plain as day that these two Burmese lads are just scapegoats, the sad thing is the real killers are still out there.

Agreed - with compensation !

I suspect those lads would be most happy to just quietly ride off into the sunset.

Now that they have the attention of the world's media< i would sue the arse off the Thai Government then go home and live like a KING.

I doubt that will happen, if they are found not guilty I suspect they will be pushed over the boarder as illegal immigrants within hours of the verdict and will not get a songtang compensation.

[edwinchester]

Perfect example of non-event.

The police never said that DNA of the hoe to substantiate charge. Instead they declared that this hoe was washed and then manipulated by several people making impossible the exploitation.

Only DNA cigarette, the condom and especially sperm collected to inside the body of H. Witheridge correspond to those of two accused .

So needless to shake you like old flies on a fresh crap. This announcement is a blaring false news propageted by the defense that has so far no really convincing element to support 2B.

As for the police DNA evidence consider what Lt Gen Kamrob Panyakeaw, head of the Police Forensic Institute in Bangkok said.... ...."all the testing was blind. We are not in charge of the case investigation part, therefore we don’t get the reports of who the DNA we are testing belongs to.

This however leaves control of the tests in the hands of one unit and takes away normal safeguards."

[smedly]

We were expecting some breaking news from Dr Pornthip but this is more explosive than I thought, and we have still got to hear the other evidence from the UK! There's enough now to call a complete halt to these unjust and farcical proceedings

I am actually disappointed with this, why was the dna from the victims body not retested or if it was why has it not been disclosed

It was either not available or doctored sample made up with the defendants' saliva could have bee provided, as there was no credible chain of custody.

if the police substituted the dna samples with saliva from the accused then that is going to be very obvious to the person doing the tests, there is a huge difference between samples from the mouth and those taken from inside of Hannah, it would be very obvious the source of the samples, and lets not forget that the victim was raped twice and violated in two places on her body (trying to be sensitive)

I wonder is Pontip going to testify these findings also if true, that would seal it for me beyond any doubt

[sawadee1947]

I hoped this would not happen. Embarrassing, sad, disgusting.

[AGareth2]

he could always use S44

[ozyjon]

I don't believe it !

[mcm991]

We were expecting some breaking news from Dr Pornthip but this is more explosive than I thought, and we have still got to hear the other evidence from the UK! There's enough now to call a complete halt to these unjust and farcical proceedings

I am actually disappointed with this, why was the dna from the victims body not retested or if it was why has it not been disclosed

It was not retested because the defense refused the offer to do so.

You like this one a lot, don't you?

You must because you have trotted it out about a zillion times already.

Why don't you post the quote again .. but this time in full ... where the police say that the samples have not really been lost as previously stated but they have significantly degraded ... or whatever rubbish they came up with. It will save me the bother of having to do it.

Then we can all see AGAIN that the samples are not really available for re-testing as stated ... just sort of available but not the original samples ... just the tested profiles are available for looking at.

[Dogmatix]

I really didn't think the RTP and the prosecutor's office were so incompetent as to risk going to trial with so much non-evidence.

Why do think the prosecutors knocked the case back to the police 2-3 times as incomplete before agreeing to prosecute it? Others have also pointed out that police and prosecutors frequently prosecute cases with insufficient evidence and can usually expect to win them in Thailand's ramshackle justice system.

[Equalizer]

Perfect example of non-event.

The police never said that DNA of the hoe to substantiate charge. Instead they declared that this hoe was washed and then manipulated by several people making impossible the exploitation.

Only DNA cigarette, the condom and especially sperm collected to inside the body of H. Witheridge correspond to those of two accused .

So needless to shake you like old flies on a fresh crap. This announcement is a blaring false news propageted by the defense that has so far no really convincing element to support 2B.

Dr Porntip Rojanasunand, that's all you need to know. If she is saying in no uncertain terms these 2 are innocent, then I'm afraid she will be right. I actually thought she would bend in the name of the military. She has many elite, privy friends. However true to form she did not do it. This woman is the real deal. She is also extremely highly thought of in the developed world of forensic medicine.

[Doc46]

So the Question is <D<>E<>L<>E<>T<>E<>D> did they not check that in the first place before they locked up those two innocent people .They could have been looking for the real Killers from Day one,,,,,incompetent fools,,,,,

[KunMatt]

We were expecting some breaking news from Dr Pornthip but this is more explosive than I thought, and we have still got to hear the other evidence from the UK! There's enough now to call a complete halt to these unjust and farcical proceedings

I am actually disappointed with this, why was the dna from the victims body not retested or if it was why has it not been disclosed

It was not retested because the defense refused the offer to do so.

You like this one a lot, don't you?

You must because you have trotted it out about a zillion times already.

Why don't you post the quote again .. but this time in full ... where the police say that the samples have not really been lost as previously stated but they have significantly degraded ... or whatever rubbish they came up with. It will save me the bother of having to do it.

Then we can all see AGAIN that the samples are not really available for re-testing as stated ... just sort of available but not the original samples ... just the tested profiles are available for looking at.

Wasn't the whole purpose of this for the defense to openly take DNA swabs from the B2 in court in front of everyone to show that their DNA samples they use for the defense cannot be contested as not coming from the B2?

[cookee68]

So they should walk I would guess

It is only on the supposed murder weapon, i want to see what they say about the DNA on the body first, that is the killer blow in this case, because they always said the hoe was washed and cleaned, lets see how they get over the other DNA found, which is more concerning

[cookee68]

Perfect example of non-event.

The police never said that DNA of the hoe to substantiate charge. Instead they declared that this hoe was washed and then manipulated by several people making impossible the exploitation.

Only DNA cigarette, the condom and especially sperm collected to inside the body of H. Witheridge correspond to those of two accused .

So needless to shake you like old flies on a fresh crap. This announcement is a blaring false news propageted by the defense that has so far no really convincing element to support 2B.

Except that the RTP have always said that this hoe was the murder weapon for the 2 victims and now the defense have proved that there are 2 DNA samples on it which are no the accused. So the murder weapon is not totally clean of any DNA, it just doesn't have either of the B2 on it which is a pretty big deal when it is stated that it was used to kill 2 people by them.

not if they were wearing gloves, it would have the people before them

[KunMatt]

So they should walk I would guess

It is only on the supposed murder weapon, i want to see what they say about the DNA on the body first, that is the killer blow in this case, because they always said the hoe was washed and cleaned, lets see how they get over the other DNA found, which is more concerning

Give them a chance. This is only their 2nd day in court. The defense team are pros and experts at this so it is guaranteed that they will leave no holes in the defense like the prosecution have done to the RTP's case.

Just wait...

[mcm991]

Perfect example of non-event.

The police never said that DNA of the hoe to substantiate charge. Instead they declared that this hoe was washed and then manipulated by several people making impossible the exploitation.

Only DNA cigarette, the condom and especially sperm collected to inside the body of H. Witheridge correspond to those of two accused .

So needless to shake you like old flies on a fresh crap. This announcement is a blaring false news propageted by the defense that has so far no really convincing element to support 2B.

Except that the RTP have always said that this hoe was the murder weapon for the 2 victims and now the defense have proved that there are 2 DNA samples on it which are no the accused. So the murder weapon is not totally clean of any DNA, it just doesn't have either of the B2 on it which is a pretty big deal when it is stated that it was used to kill 2 people by them.

There are a lot of photos of the hoe in the public domain.

It was moved about the crime scene a bit because of the perfect investigation ... but easy to see it is a mess of blood. When exaclty was it meant to have been washed?

You'd have to be blind or stupid to believe that story.