If You Could Buy Any Pickup Right Now What Would It Be?

[JaseTheBass]

Has anyone seen any stats how sales numbers compare? Even though people on here seem not to like the new Revo, from traveling around the country, my sense is the Revo sells very well. Same for the new Fortuner.

Numbers from august :

Mediocrity seems popular here.

[IMHO]

Also found this interesting table on the same site.

The ranger may be top of the class, but only in its 3.2 version. The 2.2l AT seems quite bad value considering its either the overpriced wild track at 965k or the XLT at 869k with a lot of options and equipment missing.

Yep, the 2.2L makes much more sense on lower spec / lighter models, where things like improved FE and it's cost savings make a lot more sense..

The reason it exists though is because a lot of people buying pickups don't actually rate 1 second better acceleration here and there as a factor - especially when you're talking such pedestrian numbers across the board. For example, jump out of the Chev and into a Ranger, and the first things you'll notice are how much quieter it is, how much smoother it rides, how much more confident it feels in the corners and under brakes, how much nicer the cockpit around you is, how much more responsive the engine feels in normal driving, etc... i.e. all the attributes that are actually important in a non-sports-car

If you want to use this chart to point out the worst showing, you picked on the wrong car - the 2.8L Revo has to take the award for failing to meet expectations.

Edited October 17, 2015 by IMHO

[IMHO]

If Toyota dropped the rear gear ratio a tad the story may be different. 184 v 195 at 2900 rpm...

I think you'll find that 6th gear ratios were selected based on engine RPM/FE at normal highway speeds (i.e. 90-120) - not aiming for a top speed number that you'd have a death wish to even attempt in a pickup, or aiming for improved acceleration above 120

You've been around drag cars enough to know that the gearing used for max. acceleration generally translates into a terrible daily driver... And pickups are even harder, given that their weight can vary by over a ton, day to day. The reality is, max. acceleration speeds are the last thing on a good engineer's mind when designing a pickup - real world drivability and fuel efficiency in all situations, is what actually matters most.

That said, its pretty clear some manufacturers are willing to sacrifice drivability for headline acceleration numbers

Edited October 18, 2015 by IMHO

[Robert24]

Has anyone seen any stats how sales numbers compare? Even though people on here seem not to like the new Revo, from traveling around the country, my sense is the Revo sells very well. Same for the new Fortuner.

Numbers from august :

Mediocrity seems popular here.

ok thanks. this reflects my observations on the road. The new Revo is very popular. Surprised Ford doesn't sell more and is even behind the Mitsu Triton!

I think you will see similar stats for SUVs as well.

And Mazda must loose money with such low sales volume. They probably better focus on their sedans which seem to sell quite well.

[IMHO]

For those in the market now, Isuzu will be launching a minor change early next month that's rumored to debut a new 2.0L diesel engine, that in top-spec makes around 180HP.

For those buying in a couple of years time, the Ranger will by then have a new 2.0L Panther family engine, which is rumoured to make up to 230 HP in top-spec trim.

[IMHO]

ok thanks. this reflects my observations on the road. The new Revo is very popular. Surprised Ford doesn't sell more and is even behind the Mitsu Triton!

I think you will see similar stats for SUVs as well.

And Mazda must loose money with such low sales volume. They probably better focus on their sedans which seem to sell quite well.

No need for surprise - for a start, these numbers are based on actual deliveries, not bookings - and on that Toyota were the only new launch this year that had immediate delivery capability, and the Triton has been delivering for a year now. Ford have never had much delivery capability for a new model launch... The Everest is now down to only 10 units/month/dealer for the remainder of the year for example (that's a very small % of bookings).

Secondly, Toyota and Isuzu's dominance of the pickup sector isn't going to end overnight, or anytime soon. Brand familiarity and reputation are key drivers for sales in this market. If you want to use sales figures as a guide to brand sentiment, the PPV segment is a better sales chart to look at - or will be next year once supply matches demand more evenly.

If you're looking for surprise here, its' the fact that the Isuzu D-Max is still doing so well - which proves the power of AM radio presenters in the provinces I guess

The other big factor here is marketing - Toyota are spending over 170M Baht/mth just on advertising - making them the number 1 advertiser in the country. For some perspective, that's an average of around 7,700 Baht per car sold - and if you remove all the taxes, commissions and dealer profits from the price of a car, that's a big chunk of Toyota's side of the money.. Or if you add in taxes, commissions and dealer profits, it's a very sizeable chunk of your money.. Indeed many times when you've thought "I wish this car had this or that" it probably could have - had the bean counters not saved that extra 7,700 Baht

For even more perspective on that, the number 2 advertiser is DTAC at 82M Baht, followed by Samsung at 73M.

Edited October 18, 2015 by IMHO

[ignis]

ok thanks. this reflects my observations on the road. The new Revo is very popular. Surprised Ford doesn't sell more and is even behind the Mitsu Triton!

I think you will see similar stats for SUVs as well.

And Mazda must loose money with such low sales volume. They probably better focus on their sedans which seem to sell quite well.

If the pictures are anything to go by the Mazda is the newest, followed by the Ford.. so would expect the figures to be lower..

Edited October 18, 2015 by ignis

[IMHO]

ok thanks. this reflects my observations on the road. The new Revo is very popular. Surprised Ford doesn't sell more and is even behind the Mitsu Triton!

I think you will see similar stats for SUVs as well.

And Mazda must loose money with such low sales volume. They probably better focus on their sedans which seem to sell quite well.

If the pictures are anything to go by the Mazda is the newest, followed by the Ford.. so would expect the figures to be lower..

The BT-50 normally sees sales around the 700-750 units/month mark, but that started tailing off in April when everyone knew the new model was coming (launched in Aug). The updated Ranger was released in July, so again yes, way too early for delivery numbers to tell any real story.

The Revo was launched in May, and Toyota did a very good job of both keeping the launch data a secret (the word only got out in April), and having big stock holdings for immediate deliveries. That model hasn't been impacted by the big demand:supply imbalances of the other newcomers.

Edited October 18, 2015 by IMHO

[ignis]

What new truck is the best now. No idea that is the problem..

As said in other posts over the years, the work truck is changed every 4 years or 400,000 KM...

to date 3x D-Max the last one was the 'Gold' series and not at all good, nowhere near as good as the older D-Max's and changed that one early to a Mazda BT50, is and has always been great with not a single problem.........

Now is time to change again, so what to buy ? so far the leader is Mazda again, but tomorrow will test the Ranger so will be one or the other of these 2........ must have Airbag and ABS = Hi-Racer or Hi-Rider the 2.2 opencab manual.

[IMHO]

What new truck is the best now. No idea that is the problem..

As said in other posts over the years, the work truck is changed every 4 years or 400,000 KM...

to date 3x D-Max the last one was the 'Gold' series and not at all good, nowhere near as good as the older D-Max's and changed that one early to a Mazda BT50, is and has always been great with not a single problem.........

Now is time to change again, so what to buy ? so far the leader is Mazda again, but tomorrow will test the Ranger so will be one or the other of these 2........ must have Airbag and ABS = Hi-Racer or Hi-Rider the 2.2 opencab manual.

Really, there's just so many different criteria... seeing as it's obviously a "work truck" (as opposed to a lifestyle truck), you might consider payload capacity a key driver. Doing 100,000KM/yr FE is probably a key driver too. Doing 400K KM in 4 years, reliability and access to service centres also matters.

For your case, I'd say maybe wait until Nov 2nd when the updated D-Max launches, and take stock then.

[Gary A]

nice lookin chev truck,why are you selling it ?

If I owned it, it would not be for sale..

There is a guy up here in the boonies with a similar truck, Chevy small block, for sale....

I once bought a Chevy El Camino with the 454 engine. It was a beast with an automatic transmission. At 40 MPH, you could kick it down and smoke the tires. The body didn't look that great so I took it to the best body man in town and asked him to put a premium paint job on it. He was NOT a GM fan. He lifted the hood and left it back down. He said that he refused to paint a vehicle that had a boat anchor for an engine. YES, I was offended and never did get it painted. This body shop owner was good enough that he routinely turned down work.

[lostinisaan]

Here's an very well written comparison of top-spec 4-door pickups - and the first of it's kind featuring the latest 2015 models from each brand:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/388419/ute-comparison-ford-ranger-v-holden-colorado-v-isuzu-d-max-v-mazda-bt-50-v-mitsubishi-triton-v-nissan-navara-v-toyota-hilux-v-volkswagen-amarok-2/

For those too lazy to even skip to the end, the finishing order looks like this:

1. Ford Ranger (169 points)

2. Volkswagen Amarok (156 points)

3. Mazda BT-50 (130 points)

4. Nissan Navara NP300 (111 points)

5. Toyota Hilux Revo (100 points)

6. Isuzu D-Max (80 points)

7. Mitsubishi Triton (77 points)

8. Chev Colorado (41 points)

I stand by my original reply

Ford F150, but because it's not available in TH, it would have to be the Ranger Wildtrak.

Who wrote the comparisons...........?.........

C" Mon Trans. Of course a professor working for Ford. It doesn't make Ford to better cars, trucks when you make the Ford emblem bigger and bigger.

Fords pretty much suck. We have an old saying in good old Germany.

" Go on a vacation in a Ford and come back by train." How can a Volkswagen be behind an American car? You gotta be kidding..

[lostinisaan]

nice lookin chev truck,why are you selling it ?

If I owned it, it would not be for sale..

There is a guy up here in the boonies with a similar truck, Chevy small block, for sale....

I once bought a Chevy El Camino with the 454 engine. It was a beast with an automatic transmission. At 40 MPH, you could kick it down and smoke the tires. The body didn't look that great so I took it to the best body man in town and asked him to put a premium paint job on it. He was NOT a GM fan. He lifted the hood and left it back down. He said that he refused to paint a vehicle that had a boat anchor for an engine. YES, I was offended and never did get it painted. This body shop owner was good enough that he routinely turned down work.

At 40 MPH, you could kick it down and smoke the tires. Just wondering what you're smoking when you're not driving.......lol.-

[DavisH]

For those in the market now, Isuzu will be launching a minor change early next month that's rumored to debut a new 2.0L diesel engine, that in top-spec makes around 180HP.

For those buying in a couple of years time, the Ranger will by then have a new 2.0L Panther family engine, which is rumoured to make up to 230 HP in top-spec trim.

They sound promising....any idea on how the new taxes will affect the pickups relative to their counterpart SUV's? An everest/fortuner at 1.7M plus is really pushing it. But if the pickups stay around the same price, or a small increase, their sales may increase with some sacrifice of sales of SUV's.

[fang37]

THB1.7m for a Fortuner=INSANITY.

[DavisH]

THB1.7m for a Fortuner=INSANITY.

yeah a 2014 second hand old model at 1.2M starts to look like good value...there are a number for sale on one2car.com

[fang37]

I need a strong drink - 1st in 32 years.

Off topic but I am sure our new Pajero Sports 4WD Diesel with all the accessories + insurance is less than B1.5m

[Gary A]

nice lookin chev truck,why are you selling it ?

If I owned it, it would not be for sale..

There is a guy up here in the boonies with a similar truck, Chevy small block, for sale....

I once bought a Chevy El Camino with the 454 engine. It was a beast with an automatic transmission. At 40 MPH, you could kick it down and smoke the tires. The body didn't look that great so I took it to the best body man in town and asked him to put a premium paint job on it. He was NOT a GM fan. He lifted the hood and left it back down. He said that he refused to paint a vehicle that had a boat anchor for an engine. YES, I was offended and never did get it painted. This body shop owner was good enough that he routinely turned down work.

At 40 MPH, you could kick it down and smoke the tires. Just wondering what you're smoking when you're not driving.......lol.-

It was an automatic and when it downshifted, it revved up quite high before dropping into low gear. If you weren't careful it could have gotten away from you. That was just massive raw power and a light rear end.

[ignis]

Must say the Ranger is nice........ but find it a bit odd

So say the Hi-Rider XLS with ABS and Airbags has the OLD engine ??

yet the Hi-Rider XLT with ABS and Airbags has the NEW type engine.. 40,000 baht difference in price... No waiting time they have every colour in stock.

may come down to what deal can be had.. at moment Mazda will give 40,000 baht discount, Ford only 20,000 baht...

Mazda also offered 40,000 baht more on part exchange... so a difference of 80,000 baht at the moment + more free items..... [see if any better deals for November]

going back to the Isuzu D-Max, after 4 years in a Mazda, is like going back in time to some old bone shaker, the new Toyota is not a lot better, or is that worse than the D-Max ? sure is a bad ride..

[Don Mega]

Ranger XLS and XLt have the same engine.

XLT gets new turbo, ecu and drivetrain calibration.

[ignis]

Ranger XLS and XLt have the same engine.

XLT gets new turbo, ecu and drivetrain calibration.

Many thanks

[JAS21]

Must say the Ranger is nice........ but find it a bit odd

So say the Hi-Rider XLS with ABS and Airbags has the OLD engine ??

yet the Hi-Rider XLT with ABS and Airbags has the NEW type engine.. 40,000 baht difference in price... No waiting time they have every colour in stock.

may come down to what deal can be had.. at moment Mazda will give 40,000 baht discount, Ford only 20,000 baht...

Mazda also offered 40,000 baht more on part exchange... so a difference of 80,000 baht at the moment + more free items..... [see if any better deals for November]

going back to the Isuzu D-Max, after 4 years in a Mazda, is like going back in time to some old bone shaker, the new Toyota is not a lot better, or is that worse than the D-Max ? sure is a bad ride..

I find your experience re D-Max different to mine. I have test driven both the 2.2L and 3.2L Wildtraks. My 3+ year old V-Cross has a much smoother ride/softer ride ... okay it doesn't handle as well. The V-Cross is renown for the soft ride. Maybe you test drove the cheaper D-Max variants and they ride differently.

[Water Buffalo]

Just got a Ford Ranger XLT Hi-Rider. Really happy with it.

[Water Buffalo]

Just got a Ford Ranger XLT Hi-Rider. Really happy with it.

I love new rides...That smell is a wow.......But, when the smell has gone and perhaps stuff happens, that smell has long been forgotten...

It was 2nd hand, actually. But still smells OK. haha

Ah come one. Toyota isn't the only reliable brand on the market.

[IMHO]

To me the most important thing in LOS, I say again, IN LOS, is dealership backup if you get a problem...Toyota and Isuzu has that sewn up. I have been reading here for years and important stuff sticks.

I find it kinda sad that some people will totally compromise and buy something inferior on a fear that in the incredibly rare case something did go wrong with the car (that's a fact BTW - most cars serviced by the book do not break down), the distance to a service center becomes their primary buying criteria.

Think about all the cars this excludes from your potential buying list (costs aside).... for a start, you can forget anything European. You can also forget Lexus, Suzuki, Kia and Hyundai. I won't mention Proton, Naza or DFM though - they can be eliminated under other criteria

[2fishin2]

To me the most important thing in LOS, I say again, IN LOS, is dealership backup if you get a problem...Toyota and Isuzu has that sewn up. I have been reading here for years and important stuff sticks.

I find it kinda sad that some people will totally compromise and buy something inferior on a fear that in the incredibly rare case something did go wrong with the car (that's a fact BTW - most cars serviced by the book do not break down), the distance to a service center becomes their primary buying criteria.

Think about all the cars this excludes from your potential buying list (costs aside).... for a start, you can forget anything European. You can also forget Lexus, Suzuki, Kia and Hyundai. I won't mention Proton, Naza or DFM though - they can be eliminated under other criteria

Why is this sad? Dealer work and satisfaction is very important. Why do you consider all Euro cars superior? Your post I dont understand. Remember inferior and superior is in the opinion of the person purchasing an item, its not our opinion.

[IMHO]

To me the most important thing in LOS, I say again, IN LOS, is dealership backup if you get a problem...Toyota and Isuzu has that sewn up. I have been reading here for years and important stuff sticks.

I find it kinda sad that some people will totally compromise and buy something inferior on a fear that in the incredibly rare case something did go wrong with the car (that's a fact BTW - most cars serviced by the book do not break down), the distance to a service center becomes their primary buying criteria.

Think about all the cars this excludes from your potential buying list (costs aside).... for a start, you can forget anything European. You can also forget Lexus, Suzuki, Kia and Hyundai. I won't mention Proton, Naza or DFM though - they can be eliminated under other criteria

Why is this sad? Dealer work and satisfaction is very important. Why do you consider all Euro cars superior? Your post I dont understand. Remember inferior and superior is in the opinion of the person purchasing an item, its not our opinion.

OK, let me out it another way: I see it like wearing adult pampers, even though you don't have a problem down there, just in case something scares the #1 or #2 out of you.. All that daily discomfort for what? 5555

It's a car not a person. If you're unlucky and something does go wrong, it's not as if it's going to get any worse because the "hospital" is further away.

Edited November 3, 2015 by IMHO

[IMHO]

USA Ford or GM to me were the masters of the street for ordinary folk, BUT, the Japs have made a big dent in that, I wonder why...?

If you're expecting the answer is reliability, you won't be right. The actual answer is complex, but it's a mix of product packaging, pricing, marketing, and strategy

There are books on the subject if you really want to understand the history of the industry.

Edited November 3, 2015 by IMHO

[IMHO]

USA Ford or GM to me were the masters of the street for ordinary folk, BUT, the Japs have made a big dent in that, I wonder why...?

If you're expecting the answer is reliability, you won't be right. The actual answer is complex, but it's a mix of product packaging, pricing, marketing, and strategy

There are books on the subject if you really want to understand the history of the industry.

The Japs got it right, what ever the reason, and still are.....Yes/No........?

They started out with "adequate" cars at cheap prices, and yep, not much has changed.

[IMHO]

The Japs got it right, what ever the reason, and still are.....Yes/No........?

They started out with "adequate" cars at cheap prices, and yep, not much has changed.

Let's put this into context - after all it is a thread about pickup trucks

What were Toyota's design goals for the Revo?

- To have the best performance and power? No

- To have the best fuel efficiency or be the best for the environment? no

- To provide the best load or towing capacity? no

- To provide the most passenger space? no

- To have the best ride quality, comfort or NVH? no

- To have the most stylish design? no

- To have the best safety features? no

- To have the best infotainment and connectivity? no

No, to all.

Here's what they did:

- Make something adequate

- Price it to remain profitable enough to support an oversized dealer network and incredibly expensive marketing campaigns

- Don't make the old model look too bad / plummet in resale value

- Cash in on customer loyalty

It's not that they made a bad product - don't misunderstand me - but they also didn't try to make the best product.

And yes, some of their goals are noble ones too.. especially the one about not outshining the old model too much. I feel for anyone that bought a previous generation Mazda BT-50 or Ford Ranger - those were so outclassed by the new 2011 generation that they're worth practically nothing now.

Edited November 3, 2015 by IMHO