'Wrong direction' blamed for Thai universities' ranking drop

[webfact]

EDUCATION
'Wrong direction' blamed for Thai universities' ranking drop
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- THAI UNIVERSITIES' drop in the latest QS World University Ranking reflects the wrong direction taken in the Kingdom's higher education sector, education expert Pavich Thongroj said yesterday.

"Quantity shouldn’t have a bigger focus than quality," he said.

He also urged the government to earmark more funds for the development of higher education institutes' work in producing good manpower, and for research and innovations.

Several Thai universities dropped from previous rankings. Chulalong-korn University fell 10 spots from 243 last year to 253, Chiang Mai University from 551 to 690 and Thammasat University from 601 to 650.

Pavich said such results showed that Thai universities were wrongly focusing on a larger number of students rather than on quality education, hence the government, the Education Ministry and the Office of Higher Education Commission along with universities should find ways to properly develop Thailand's higher education sector.

"Compared to foreign universities, Thai ones get very little funding. So, it is necessary that the government earmark more funds for higher education development as well promote research and innovation," he said.

He went on to say that if Thailand failed to promote its universities' competitiveness on the world stage, it would be viewed as not having quality manpower, which will affect other aspects of its development. He added that the development of education should be made part of the national agenda.

The QS World University Ranking includes universities from 82 countries, with those from 34 nations featuring in the top 200. The United States dominates, with 49 institutions, ahead of the United Kingdom, with 30, the Netherlands with 12, Germany 11, Canada, Australia and Japan with eight each, China with seven, and France, Sweden and Hong Kong with five each.

This 12th edition of the ranking names the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) as the top university, scoring 100 out of possible 100 points. Coming in second is Harvard, with 98.7 points, and Cambridge and Stanford coming in third with 98.6 points each.

In Asia, Singapore came in as the top performer with its leading universities making the top 15 for the first time. The National University of Singapore came in at 12, with 94.2 points, followed by Nanyang Technological University in the 13th place with 93.9 points.

China's Tsinghua University, coming in at 25, is Asia's third best university, leading a strong Chinese cohort.

The QS global surveys got contributions from 76,798 academics and 44,226 employers, while QS analysed 11.1 million research papers - indexed by Elsevier's Scopus database. It considered 3,539 institutions for inclusion and ranked 891.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Wrong-direction-blamed-for-Thai-universities-ranki-30268959.html


-- The Nation 2015-09-17

[arthurboy]

More hand-wringing bluster. More budget, anyone?

[clockman]

The schools have a big budget! and look what they turn out.

[NongKhaiKid]

Forget just the money and get back to basics such as students actually having to pass exams and prove themselves to earn their qualification.

Far too many go to uni knowing they can't fail unless they really screw up and depending on who they are almost anything, including cheating etc,. can and will be excused.

Increased budgets don't help a deeply flawed system they just allow for more fiddles.

[lildragon]

Ah I have got this bloody map upside down!

[whatproblem]

Wrong direction,not lack of learning

[gk10002000]

Quantity shouldn’t have a bigger focus than quality," he said. In the USA, there was the recent big push for "no child left behind". Sounds nice, and I like the idea, but not everybody is the same, and how much are you willing to slow down the fast learners? When I was in school in the 60s, elementary school had no real distinctions. But when we got to Junior High and Senior High in the 70s, we had A, B divisions, then C, and so on. Some sort of aptitude test or grade scores put us in those groups. I have no idea how they determined it. But there is no doubt which group ended up the most educated. Some of the people in the "C" group later were my college class mates, so it didn't necessarily limit them. But I can tell you that being in the A was a lot different than being in some of the lower ones. We did take more advanced math and science classes. We had a pretty rich choice of "electives" for half semester philosophy or other types of liberal arts subjects. We did not have fights and riots. We were by far the better behaved lot. I am sure it helped me because I associated with the nerds more, even though I was on the athletic teams. But the jock mentality was not for me. I ran cross country, track and field, wrestled and picked up Tae Kwon Do outside of school.

[skildpadden]

"So, it is necessary that the government earmark more funds for higher education development as well promote research and innovation," he said."

And the director of NIA - an agency that should be prime example of research and innovation copied another scholar's work. That example speaks volume of the sad state of Thai university education is in. They have the place in the world of higher education that they deserve.

[desi]

"QS analysed 11.1 million research papers - indexed by Elsevier's Scopus database"

When it comes to getting academic papers into international journals, Thais have a weak showing.

[eldragon]

These are world rankings? You mean to tell me there are not more than 253 universities elsewhere in the world with better academic reputations than the top one in TH? If I'd had to guess, I would've assumed there wouldn't be a Thai uni in the top 500.

[seajae]

typical thia operating method, get big numbers in to make more money just lower the quality of the end product to save even more profit. Maybe if they actually raised the levels required to enter, made it compulsory to attend all classes and made qualifying marks compulsory to continue there it would make a difference. Removing "payments" as a method on entry and passing should also be introduced, universities should be there only for those with the ability to attain the necessary marks or have the necessary qualifying entrance marks to begin with. Just turning out large numbers of unqualified idiots does not make a uni a good one, way past time students are made to actually do the work as well as employ teachers/lecturers that have the ability to teach at the higher levels required for them to learn. A thai degree is a joke, they are worthless pieces of paper and recognized as such in other countries.

[BoristheBlade]

Simply make people accountable.

Produce results or loose your job.

Thailand needs to get into the real world if it wants to move forward.

But the reality is that the powers that be, dont want an educated nation.

An educated nation would drive these clowns out of power.

[Chongalulu]

In August we dropped my Thai stepdaughter at NTU Singapore (13th in rankings) for her years exchange from her UK university. Having experienced the organisation and Singapore for the first time ,their rise in the rankings comes as no surprise. She is thoroughly enjoying it and reports that they don't mess around,there are no resits of any failed modules. You fail then you fail,som nom na! Because it's an exchange programme no fees are paid but I saw that the tuition fees alone for attending privately are $50000 Singapore per year...gulp! Too much to expect thailand to look to its neighbour for some inspiration?

[scorecard]

Forget just the money and get back to basics such as students actually having to pass exams and prove themselves to earn their qualification.

Far too many go to uni knowing they can't fail unless they really screw up and depending on who they are almost anything, including cheating etc,. can and will be excused.

Increased budgets don't help a deeply flawed system they just allow for more fiddles.

There's obviously a number of factors which need attention. Some factors more to do with the level of instruction, 'no fail' stuff, allowing the students to misbehave / come 2 hours late etc. Another smaller level factor is the quality and attitude of the administration staff.

At several universities students who have questions or need some form of documentation stand outside in the full sun and talk through a small window to the rude and uncooperative clerical staff who urgently need 'attitude adjustment'.

At many unis students who need answers to credit structures, options, etc., etc., go to the 'window' and are just told 'read the brochure' and the staff then slam the window shut. This level of detail is never shown on basic brochures.

I'm aware of one uni where students results are not held in a database, just on paper in hundreds of old cardboard boxes. When students want a transcript of results the students have to spend hours / days searching through these boxes trying to find the unsorted grade lists with their grades.

At another uni just recently a student paid for final courses and also paid the graduation fee, the two items were ticked on the list of items on the temporary receipt. But when the faculty took the temp. receipt and the cash to the main office the central cashier ticked the wrong items on the ultimate official receipt.

The mistake is obvious and is clearly an admin. mistake. The faculty and main admin. staff refuse to discuss the matter with the student who has since had to pay the fees again.

None of the above has any focus on students, student needs, etc.

At these unis the admin. staff are totally incapable, have disgraceful attitudes, are lazy, their personal presentation, at some schools, is awful, and most have gained these jobs through connections and nepotism.

At one uni morning lessons finish at midday and start again at 1:00 pm. Guess when the office closed for lunch. Correct, midday to 1:00 pm.

Edited September 17, 2015 by scorecard

[tuanku]

When the universities don't even run simple, inexpensive computer software to detect plagiarism in dissertations - (something that is done as a matter of course in High Schools which use the International Baccalaureate system) and take 2 years to take action against cheats, low rankings are to be expected.

And that was Chulalongkorn the highest ranked of the Thai Universities.

The entry qualifications for university here for International School students are approximately the same as needed to enter sixth form college in UK for an A-level programme at age 16.

[Lodestone]

Also no where to be found on the Shanghai Rankings ( http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2015.html ) released last month. Top 100 below:

1 Harvard University
2 Stanford University
3 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)
4 University of California, Berkeley
5 University of Cambridge
6 Princeton University
7 California Institute of Technology
8 Columbia University
9 University of Chicago
10 University of Oxford
11 Yale University
12 University of California, Los Angeles
13 Cornell University
14 University of California, San Diego
15 University of Washington
16 Johns Hopkins University
17 University of Pennsylvania
18 University College London
18 University of California, San Francisco
20 Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zurich
21 The University of Tokyo
22 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
23 The Imperial College of Science, Technology and Medicine
24 University of Wisconsin - Madison
25 University of Toronto
26 Kyoto University
27 New York University
27 Northwestern University
29 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
30 University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
31 Duke University
32 Washington University in St. Louis
33 Rockefeller University
34 University of Colorado at Boulder
35 University of Copenhagen
36 Pierre and Marie Curie University - Paris 6
37 The University of Texas at Austin
38 University of California, Santa Barbara
39 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
40 University of British Columbia
41 The University of Manchester
41 University of Paris-Sud (Paris 11)
43 University of Maryland, College Park
44 The University of Melbourne
44 The University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas
46 Heidelberg University
47 The University of Edinburgh
48 Karolinska Institute
49 University of Southern California
50 University of California, Irvine
51 Technical University Munich
52 University of Munich
53 Vanderbilt University
54 University of Zurich
55 King's College London
56 Utrecht University
57 University of California, Davis
58 University of Geneva
58 University of Oslo
60 Pennsylvania State University - University Park
61 Carnegie Mellon University
61 Purdue University - West Lafayette
61 Uppsala University
64 McGill University
64 Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey - New Brunswick
66 University of Bristol
67 The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
67 The Ohio State University - Columbus
67 University of Helsinki
70 University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh Campus
71 Ghent University
72 Ecole Normale Superieure - Paris
73 Aarhus University
73 Boston University
75 Brown University
75 University of Groningen
77 Nagoya University
77 Stockholm University
77 Technion-Israel Institute of Technology
77 The Australian National University
77 The University of Queensland
82 Leiden University
83 University of Florida
84 Rice University
85 Osaka University
86 Moscow State University
87 The University of Western Australia
87 University of Basel
87 University of Strasbourg
90 KU Leuven
90 University of Arizona
92 University of Warwick
93 Arizona State University
93 University of California, Santa Cruz
93 University of Utah
96 McMaster University
97 University of Bonn
98 VU University Amsterdam
99 Michigan State University
100 Texas A&M University

Edited September 17, 2015 by Lodestone

[Laughing Gravy]

How about changing the culture of cheating, plagiarism.

Paying your money and you get your degree.

Having multiple choice based questions.

Route learning.

Having a set standard across all schools and universities, as they are shockingly different.

Start with these and then you just might be on the path upwards.

[LannaGuy]

Blaming a pop group is a bit much!

[bangon04]

Forget just the money and get back to basics such as students actually having to pass exams and prove themselves to earn their qualification.

Far too many go to uni knowing they can't fail unless they really screw up and depending on who they are almost anything, including cheating etc,. can and will be excused.

Increased budgets don't help a deeply flawed system they just allow for more fiddles.

"as well promote research and innovation," he said.

He went on to say that if Thailand failed to promote its universities' competitiveness on the world stage, it would be viewed as not having quality manpower, which will affect other aspects of its development. He added that the development of education should be made part of the national agenda."

Surely he doesn't mean to imply that Thailand's degrees and diplomas are not the envy of the entire outside world?

Let us form a committee immediately to evaluate the ploplem and start with overseas factfinding trips to the top 30 countries on the list. Should take no more than 5 years to report back....

[tuanku]

Maybe, as with health services it is time to announce a plan to bring Universities up to international standards..................by 2030!

[quandow]

Quantity shouldn’t have a bigger focus than quality," he said. In the USA, there was the recent big push for "no child left behind". Sounds nice, and I like the idea, but not everybody is the same, and how much are you willing to slow down the fast learners? When I was in school in the 60s, elementary school had no real distinctions. But when we got to Junior High and Senior High in the 70s, we had A, B divisions, then C, and so on. Some sort of aptitude test or grade scores put us in those groups. I have no idea how they determined it. But there is no doubt which group ended up the most educated. Some of the people in the "C" group later were my college class mates, so it didn't necessarily limit them. But I can tell you that being in the A was a lot different than being in some of the lower ones. We did take more advanced math and science classes. We had a pretty rich choice of "electives" for half semester philosophy or other types of liberal arts subjects. We did not have fights and riots. We were by far the better behaved lot. I am sure it helped me because I associated with the nerds more, even though I was on the athletic teams. But the jock mentality was not for me. I ran cross country, track and field, wrestled and picked up Tae Kwon Do outside of school.

"No child left behind" has been around for YEARS, and it's been a race to see who can create a more miserable failure, the U.S. or Thailand.

[Denim]

Never mind , as long as they have studied Prayuths core values they are way ahead of the likes of Harvard and Yale..........aren't they ?

[maidee]

are there other schools or unies that GIVE AWAY a degree just for attending ?

i guess this is one of the reasons a degree in this country, only gets you a cleaning toilet job or waiter in a western country

[Nobb]

This sounds like the Thai universities teacher want more money for doing a bad job. Raise the direction and improve your job before you show that you have truly earned a pay raise by doing a better job. Money does not make a good teacher better but make the bad ones make more. So sad about Thai teachers . I taught English in America and meet a Thai English teacher who did not understand English at all . Pay them and no one cares if they really do there jobs!

[Nobb]

In August we dropped my Thai stepdaughter at NTU Singapore (13th in rankings) for her years exchange from her UK university. Having experienced the organisation and Singapore for the first time ,their rise in the rankings comes as no surprise. She is thoroughly enjoying it and reports that they don't mess around,there are no resits of any failed modules. You fail then you fail,som nom na! Because it's an exchange programme no fees are paid but I saw that the tuition fees alone for attending privately are $50000 Singapore per year...gulp! Too much to expect thailand to look to its neighbour for some inspiration?

Your daughter would be the smartest one in her class because no Thais would spend that much for education. But would spend 30,000 to get there child a job! Great message!

[Sam Jones]

Didnt know they could fall even deeper in ranking, what a messy place this is ...

[Thai at Heart]

When the universities don't even run simple, inexpensive computer software to detect plagiarism in dissertations - (something that is done as a matter of course in High Schools which use the International Baccalaureate system) and take 2 years to take action against cheats, low rankings are to be expected.

And that was Chulalongkorn the highest ranked of the Thai Universities.

The entry qualifications for university here for International School students are approximately the same as needed to enter sixth form college in UK for an A-level programme at age 16.

Indeed I was shocked to here you can enter with igcse into a Thai university. Incredible but true.