Border Run Alternatives

[Scott3000]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

13 hours ago, audaciousnomad said:

So for those who have been in-country for the past 5 months, basically if amnesty is not extended we will not be permitted to do a border bounce.  This article seems to confirm that.

I cannot see where it says that. Most of what that article is describing is current policy.

Hi! Though I did not read the article, I read the Thai Immigration page Ubon Joe posted a few days ago (link below). If you look at the lower right corner, you will see the cause for concern:

 

"Aliens holding border pass

The permitted period of stay shall be temporarily extended until the border checkpoints are opened.

*Once the border checkpoints are opened, such aliens must depart within 7 days."

 

I'm also feeling the anxiety about this, as my 5th month in Thailand draws to a close. I arrived visa exempt by air just after the New Year. I'm in the exact same boat as the original poster.

 

https://immigration.go.th/content/extend_alien?click=1

 

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Scott3000 said:

"Aliens holding border pass

The permitted period of stay shall be temporarily extended until the border checkpoints are opened.

*Once the border checkpoints are opened, such aliens must depart within 7 days."

That has nothing to do with you unless you are Thai or from one of the neighboring countries.

A border pass is for crossing borders without a passport for Thais and those from neighboring countries.

[landosmiles]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I cannot see where it says that. Most of what that article is describing is current policy.

ubonjoe is of course very correct that there's nothing specific in the article, However, there are non-specific warning(s) in the article such as:

Quote

He also predicted a new normal even after the current situation is resolved or eased in the absence of a vaccine or the elimination of the virus. This will mean tighter control or security over entry to the kingdom for all travellers in the future.

Other TAT comments reported yesterday seemed stark:

Quote

"It is still dependent on the outbreak situation, but I think at the earliest, we may see the return of tourists could be the fourth quarter of this year," Yuthasak Supasorn, governor of the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT), tells CNN Travel.
And even then, he says, there will likely be restrictions on who can visit and where they can go.

Fourth quarter at the earliest, and even then likely restrictions on who can visit and where they can go (all subject to the COVID situation, understandably). Apparently it's going to continue to be an incredibly difficult time, to put it mildly, for Thais in jobs related to tourism for a long time yet. (I'm personally residing long-term legally, but I know there are difficult decisions for many.)

[Jajazazajaja]

I’m on Non B multiple and on amnesty as last stamp expires on June 8th.

 

i can’t imagine they WONT extend the amnesty after July 31st. It makes little sense to kick people out when people aren’t allowed back in.

 

wonder if border runs to HK or Korea might be available app ? 

[RaduAlex]

From the phrasing of the TAT governor, it seems very unlikely that it will be possible to enter on a tourist visa before October. And even then, it sounds these will be for pre-booked packages in certain locations to avoid putting people through quarantine. So once out, it will almost certainly be very hard to get back in. And even if you find a job or register for a language course, there are multiple reports that a new visa from within the country can't be done. So the question is, will everyone on an expired visa be forced out within a grace period, risking a significant rise in overstayers, or will the amnesty be extended until borders reopen. 

[Jajazazajaja]

17 minutes ago, RaduAlex said:

From the phrasing of the TAT governor, it seems very unlikely that it will be possible to enter on a tourist visa before October. And even then, it sounds these will be for pre-booked packages in certain locations to avoid putting people through quarantine. So once out, it will almost certainly be very hard to get back in. And even if you find a job or register for a language course, there are multiple reports that a new visa from within the country can't be done. So the question is, will everyone on an expired visa be forced out within a grace period, risking a significant rise in overstayers, or will the amnesty be extended until borders reopen. 

Just can’t see them forcing people out when they are losing all that revenue from tourists and the Fly in fly out, crowd.

 

[Scott3000]

Thanks for the clarification ubon joe!

[audaciousnomad]

13 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I cannot see where it says that. Most of what that article is describing is current policy.

It's the section that says those who cannot meet requirements will also be denied entry at land border crossings.
 

===

However, even if one of these included groups, such as, for instance, a work permit holder, can make it to an external border crossing or immigration point without using a commercial passenger flight into Thailand, there are further considerations.

Medical certification within 72 hours of embarking for Thailand and $100,000 in health coverage

Any foreigner entering the country must have a medical certificate stating that the person is fit to fly if using an air flight while for all visitors, it must confirm that the foreigner is in good health and free of the Covid 19 virus. This letter must have been issued within 72 hours of travelling.

There must be health insurance coverage for up to $100,000 and this cover must also include insurance against the Covid 19 virus. This coverage must be authenticated by a Thai official.

Memorandum from the Thai Embassy and agreement to 14 days quarantine at the foreigner’s own expense

Thirdly, a certificate must have been issued by the Thai Embassy in the country where the foreigner is travelling from. 

This must also include a memorandum of consent for the foreigner to self-isolate and be placed in state quarantine for 14 days.

In the video, Mr Choengron makes it clear that all costs associated with quarantine measures must be borne at the traveller’s own expense if they are an alien.

The current requirement is that all travellers must be placed in government-approved quarantine for 14 days.

Those who do not meet the criteria will also not be permitted to enter Thailand at land borders

The immigration spokesman specifically pointed out that those who cannot meet the criteria to enter Thailand at this point, as outlined, will also not be able to meet the criteria at land borders. 

This may be an option for those that do but who cannot access Thailand because of the passenger flight ban but meet the other criteria under the emergency decree.

Notwithstanding this, reaching Thailand’s land borders has also become more difficult. Aside from restriction in neighbouring countries, the situation, globally, is that international flights to any country at this point have been scaled back and have also become far more expensive. 

There is a window here for a limited group of people but one fraught with difficulty.

Edited May 28, 2020 by audaciousnomad

[BangkokReady]

On 5/28/2020 at 7:46 AM, ubonjoe said:

I cannot see where it says that. Most of what that article is describing is current policy.

If anything, the article seems to say that only certain people will be allowed in, with no mention of tourism, and even then they will have to have certificate, insurance and go through quarantine when they return to Thailand.

 

This also ignores the fact that people may have to quarantine in the neighboring country.

 

I noticed somewhere else that you also need to apply for your work visa about ten days before you are due to come back into Thailand.  This presumably means your itinerary could be something like:

 

Leave Thailand for Laos (for example); two week quarantine ass soon as you enter; apply for work visa; wait ten days; return to Thailand if you can get the additionally required magical pieces of paper; spend two weeks in quarantine.

 

Five weeks and three days at the least, if the neighboring country wants quarantine as well and only for those with work visa.

 

Not exactly a "border bounce".

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

If anything, the article seems to say that only certain people will be allowed in, with no mention of tourism, and even then they will have to have certificate, insurance and go through quarantine when they return to Thailand.

By the time borders are open and passenger flights are allowed in the country most of what is shown will not longer exist since they are in the emergency decree that was issued on March 26th that will end on June 30th unless they extend it again.

It is not possible to predict what the rules will be on July 1st.

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

By the time borders are open and passenger flights are allowed in the country most of what is shown will not longer exist since they are in the emergency decree that was issued on March 26th that will end on June 30th unless they extend it again.

While it is true that things are very likely to change, what I have written is based on information released in the last few days and discussing future plans post-lockdown.

Edited May 31, 2020 by BangkokReady

[cubism001]

The CAAT page still says no flights in until June 30th.  Has anyone heard any different?  Please provide a link so I can study the situation to get back in.  Thanks.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, cubism001 said:

The CAAT page still says no flights in until June 30th.  Has anyone heard any different?  Please provide a link so I can study the situation to get back in.  Thanks.

The latest situation is that those who can provide a strong justification for being allowed to return should contact the Thai embassy. Possibly, you might be authorised to take a repatriation flight along with Thai nationals. If your return is allowed, you will be subject to mandatory quarantine for 14 days. The embassy will inform you of other requirements.

 

If you hope to jump on a flight, expecting to enter Thailand visa exempt, I suspect you will have a long wait. 

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, cubism001 said:

The CAAT page still says no flights in until June 30th.  Has anyone heard any different?  Please provide a link so I can study the situation to get back in.  Thanks.

Click Thailand on this map to get the info that the airlines can see. https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

[cubism001]

Thanks very much for your help.  I thought I'd missed some wonderful announcement.  I'll keep checking here and at the CAAT site. BTW. I'm an ordinary Yank & I'll bring a tourist visa with me, any insurance & medical certs they need. I think Ubon Joe mentioned his opinion that autumn would see things back to normal.  .

[drbeach]

On 5/28/2020 at 1:46 PM, Jajazazajaja said:

I’m on Non B multiple and on amnesty as last stamp expires on June 8th.

 

i can’t imagine they WONT extend the amnesty after July 31st. It makes little sense to kick people out when people aren’t allowed back in.

 

wonder if border runs to HK or Korea might be available app ? 

I'm in the same situation as you. According to Ubon Joe, a 60 day extension can be made shortly before the amnesty expires IF it becomes necessary (assuming the amnesty isn't extended). However, I think they will probably extend the amnesty for another month or two (3 months is unlikely, since the situation is greatly improving and lockdowns are easing) allowing more time for the borders to reopen and normal travel to resume.

[JackedUpAndgoodToGo]

I just sent my wife to immigration today. I have a marriage non-o multiple entry. Like many here I need to leave and come back. Immigration stated that the current plan is that on July 31st all persons' with non-o ME visa's will have to --change their visa-- to a tourist or compassionate visa (whatever that is called---to visit their respective wives)  for 60 days and pay an additional 2,000 baht for that visa. The explanation given was that even if Thailand opens its borders, other countries may not, so land borders would be uncertain.  

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, JackedUpAndgoodToGo said:

I just sent my wife to immigration today. I have a marriage non-o multiple entry. Like many here I need to leave and come back. Immigration stated that the current plan is that on July 31st all persons' with non-o ME visa's will have to --change their visa-- to a tourist or compassionate visa (whatever that is called---to visit their respective wives)  for 60 days and pay an additional 2,000 baht for that visa. The explanation given was that even if Thailand opens its borders, other countries may not, so land borders would be uncertain.  

Have you considered applying for a one-year extension of your permission to stay based on your Thai wife?

[JackedUpAndgoodToGo]

I dont need an extension. My visa is only 4 months old (its valid for one year---one year multiple entry marriage visa). I need a reentry stamp (its a multiple entry Visa and I need a reentry stamp every 3 months). They are saying they will not give it to me even if the borders dont open after July 31st (the stamp) and that the only solution is getting a tourist visa for an additional 2000 BAHT.

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, JackedUpAndgoodToGo said:

I dont need an extension. My visa is only 4 months old (its valid for one year---one year multiple entry marriage visa). I need a reentry stamp (its a multiple entry Visa and I need a reentry stamp every 3 months). They are saying they will not give it to me even if the borders dont open after July 31st (the stamp) and that the only solution is getting a tourist visa for an additional 2000 BAHT.

Your visa is not a permission to stay. The visa only allows you to enter Thailand subject to other restrictions in force at the time of entry. You may feel that it is unfair that you are unable just exit and reenter to avoid the need for an extension of your permission to stay but that is the current reality, and may be true for many more months. Thailand already provides a mechanism for extending your permission to stay based on marriage. You may not like the conditions for the extension, but Thailand is not going to suspend those conditions just because you want them to.

[Caldera]

11 hours ago, JackedUpAndgoodToGo said:

They are saying they will not give it to me even if the borders dont open after July 31st (the stamp) and that the only solution is getting a tourist visa for an additional 2000 BAHT.

How or where will you be able to get a tourist visa if the borders don't open? They can only be applied for abroad.

[Okis]

23 hours ago, JackedUpAndgoodToGo said:

I dont need an extension. My visa is only 4 months old (its valid for one year---one year multiple entry marriage visa). I need a reentry stamp (its a multiple entry Visa and I need a reentry stamp every 3 months). They are saying they will not give it to me even if the borders dont open after July 31st (the stamp) and that the only solution is getting a tourist visa for an additional 2000 BAHT.

They will give you a 60 day extension of stay based on visiting your wife. If entry to Thailand have harsh requirements or if borderruns will not even be allowed by the end of those 60 days your only option will be to do a 1 year extension or leave the country(unless they extend the amnesty). 

 

If you have your life here and dont want to leave Thailand then i think you need to realize how big of a risk you are taking by not being prepared to fulfill the requirements for a 1 year extension.  Meaning having the required money in the bank by 31 july so you can season them during your 60 day extension. 

 

Basing your decisions on the hope that everything will go back to normal after july or that the amnesty will be extended is not a wise decision if your goal is to contineu living here because there is a 50/50 chance that borderruns will not be possible for many months after the amnesty is lifted and the entry requirements will harsh or you not being able to enter Thailand again if your passport is from a country that havent managed to control the virus. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Okis

[drbeach]

20 hours ago, Okis said:

They will give you a 60 day extension of stay based on visiting your wife. If entry to Thailand have harsh requirements or if borderruns will not even be allowed by the end of those 60 days your only option will be to do a 1 year extension or leave the country(unless they extend the amnesty). 

 

If you have your life here and dont want to leave Thailand then i think you need to realize how big of a risk you are taking by not being prepared to fulfill the requirements for a 1 year extension.  Meaning having the required money in the bank by 31 july so you can season them during your 60 day extension. 

 

Basing your decisions on the hope that everything will go back to normal after july or that the amnesty will be extended is not a wise decision if your goal is to contineu living here because there is a 50/50 chance that borderruns will not be possible for many months after the amnesty is lifted and the entry requirements will harsh or you not being able to enter Thailand again if your passport is from a country that havent managed to control the virus. 

That is true but I think there is a good chance the amnesty will be extended in that case. Both you and the other guy are making assumptions, yet as we should be aware, the previous 2 amnesties were announced with only a few days notice given, not 6-7 weeks. Therefore, I doubt we'll be hearing about an extension of the current one until such time as a decision on extending the flight/border closure and state of emergency has been made.

 

I don't see Thailand suddenly kicking out foreigners or putting us into a difficult situation IF the borders still aren't open by late July. However, from what I can tell, several EU countries are opening up to each other and by next month also to many non-EU/Schengen states, so there is a chance that is enough for Thailand to justify not extending the amnesty, but given other countries like NZ granted an automatic extension until Sep 25 and Thailand granted an amnesty for work permits to Burmese and Cambodian migrant workers until November, it would be strange if they didn't extend the same courtesy to foreigners of other nationalities too.

Similarly, they even extended the amnesty for border pass holders indefinitely, until such time the borders re-open. Then they have 7 days to return. Yet people from neighboring countries can already return if they want to now, by going to their embassy and booking a bus ticket to the border and doing 14-21 days quarantine (21 days is for Myanmar).

 

All countries in the world are being affected by this unprecedented global shutdown. I think therefore it is NOT unreasonable to expect a bit of compassion and understanding given the circumstances. I don't think that guy would have had any intention of staying beyond his permitted time if it weren't for the current, rather hopeless looking circumstances. Thailand might also consider revamping it's immigration system and end such things as visa waivers (can be replaced by an e-visa or ETA/ESTA), and allowing all extensions to be done in-country. The Thai immigration system works fine under normal circumstances, but it is not fit to cope with the current conditions.

[Okis]

4 hours ago, drbeach said:

That is true but I think there is a good chance the amnesty will be extended in that case. Both you and the other guy are making assumptions, yet as we should be aware, the previous 2 amnesties were announced with only a few days notice given, not 6-7 weeks. Therefore, I doubt we'll be hearing about an extension of the current one until such time as a decision on extending the flight/border closure and state of emergency has been made.

 

I don't see Thailand suddenly kicking out foreigners or putting us into a difficult situation IF the borders still aren't open by late July. However, from what I can tell, several EU countries are opening up to each other and by next month also to many non-EU/Schengen states, so there is a chance that is enough for Thailand to justify not extending the amnesty, but given other countries like NZ granted an automatic extension until Sep 25 and Thailand granted an amnesty for work permits to Burmese and Cambodian migrant workers until November, it would be strange if they didn't extend the same courtesy to foreigners of other nationalities too.

Similarly, they even extended the amnesty for border pass holders indefinitely, until such time the borders re-open. Then they have 7 days to return. Yet people from neighboring countries can already return if they want to now, by going to their embassy and booking a bus ticket to the border and doing 14-21 days quarantine (21 days is for Myanmar).

 

All countries in the world are being affected by this unprecedented global shutdown. I think therefore it is NOT unreasonable to expect a bit of compassion and understanding given the circumstances. I don't think that guy would have had any intention of staying beyond his permitted time if it weren't for the current, rather hopeless looking circumstances. Thailand might also consider revamping it's immigration system and end such things as visa waivers (can be replaced by an e-visa or ETA/ESTA), and allowing all extensions to be done in-country. The Thai immigration system works fine under normal circumstances, but it is not fit to cope with the current conditions.

I havent made any assumptions about anything. 

 

I said there is a 50/50 chance that borderruns wont be a option after the amnesty ends and that entry requirements might be harsh.  Which isn't a assumption, it's a fact that nobody here knows what will happen.

 

I understand that people need to stay positive to not become stressed out/depressed. But at the same time one must be realistic and have a plan b prepared. Not being prepared with a plan b and just hope everything will go back to normal is not a smart move, since nobody knows what will happen. 

 

I'm in the same situation as the guy i responded to, and i want to be 100% sure i wont have to leave and have problems coming back in again so for me personally the logical way forward is to eliminate that risk by switching over to 1 year extensions. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Okis

[drbeach]

1 hour ago, Okis said:

I havent made any assumptions about anything. 

 

I said there is a 50/50 chance that borderruns wont be a option after the amnesty ends and that entry requirements might be harsh.  Which isn't a assumption, it's a fact that nobody here knows what will happen.

 

I understand that people need to stay positive to not become stressed out/depressed. But at the same time one must be realistic and have a plan b prepared. Not being prepared with a plan b and just hope everything will go back to normal is not a smart move, since nobody knows what will happen. 

 

I'm in the same situation as the guy i responded to, and i want to be 100% sure i wont have to leave and have problems coming back in again so for me personally the logical way forward is to eliminate that risk by switching over to 1 year extensions. 

it's possible things will eventually return to normal but that could be several months away. I agree it's better to be safe than sorry. I'd use an agent if that helps smooth things over. Perhaps the agent can smooth over the whole 60 day funds seasoning requirement.

[Denim]

Regarding Savannahket , one thing is certain. The Thai consulate there generates such tourism that exists. Without people going there for  visas a lot of hotels will go to the wall and the local economy will continue to bomb.

 

Hopefully, this will be taken into account when things begin to improve and if any visa requirements do change they will not eliminate the option to do visa runs .

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, Denim said:

Regarding Savannahket , one thing is certain. The Thai consulate there generates such tourism that exists. Without people going there for  visas a lot of hotels will go to the wall and the local economy will continue to bomb.

 

Hopefully, this will be taken into account when things begin to improve and if any visa requirements do change they will not eliminate the option to do visa runs .

With the mention of travel bubbles yesterday, I'm really hoping that a visa run to Svannahket will be a possibility next month without the 14 days either side.

 

It's certainly in the best interest of both Thailand and Laos to allow people on legitimate visa options in need of a border run to get out and in without too much trouble.

[BritTim]

14 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

With the mention of travel bubbles yesterday, I'm really hoping that a visa run to Svannahket will be a possibility next month without the 14 days either side.

 

It's certainly in the best interest of both Thailand and Laos to allow people on legitimate visa options in need of a border run to get out and in without too much trouble.

I think travel bubbles will evolve. It is highly optimistic to expect this any sooner than a few months from now.

[drbeach]

On 6/14/2020 at 11:45 AM, BangkokReady said:

With the mention of travel bubbles yesterday, I'm really hoping that a visa run to Svannahket will be a possibility next month without the 14 days either side.

 

It's certainly in the best interest of both Thailand and Laos to allow people on legitimate visa options in need of a border run to get out and in without too much trouble.

Next month? No way. i went to Savannakhet in early March. My visa is thus good until March next year. I haven't made the 60 day extension yet, but my permission to stay is now in the amnesty period. My plan if the amnesty isn't extended and borders aren't open by late July (and by open I'm not talking about limited travel bubbles with 14 day quarantines either side only intended for high level company managers, but for general travel with minimal restrictions), which I doubt will be the case, then I would initially go down the 60 day extension route and eventually a 1-year extension. If this proves to be a smooth option, I will no longer go down the non-O multi route in future.

 

Non-O multi (and earlier, non-B multi) has always worked well for me due to running a business that straddles three countries: Thailand, Laos and Myanmar. Most of our current activities are in Myanmar so regular travel to that country, on a monthly, or sometimes bimonthly basis has been a reality for me for the past 2 years until covid came around. I would rarely be in Thailand for more than 60 days at a time, and until this crisis struck had never in my life spent more than around 85 days in the country without leaving...

 

However, IF future travel, even 6-12 months out, after the pandemic ends is no longer easy like it used to be, and requires testing, mandatory vaccines, tracking apps, itineraries submitted before travel and god knows what other requirements to fulfill, I guess I won't be running that cross-border business anymore. Still, that is speculative at this time. One thing I'm 90% sure about - you won't be entering Laos freely to get a visa next month.

 

Much more likely they'll extend the amnesty and only end it once most borders have re-opened with whatever new entry requirements countries apply at the time. These requirements will likely exclude quarantines, as they're not practical, but may involve some of the restrictions I just mentioned. However, that "new normal" for travel, will be sufficient cause for Thailand to declare: "the borders are open, you have to leave now, or find another way of regularizing your status".

 

Cambodia imposing a large deposit for covid testing and whatever requirements they impose permanently in 6 months from now, can't be used as an excuse to avoid travel anymore, by then.

 

My gut feeling is that international travel will never be the same again. There will be less travel in the future, because it will involve much more than only packing your passport and visa.

 

Finally, a travel bubble between Thailand and Laos is being discussed, but as I hinted at above, it's primarily intended for high-level company managers who are citizens of these countries (as opposed to expats residing in one or the other) and will probably be in place for several weeks, if not a couple of months, before general travel will be permitted. This means, any visa trip to Savannakhet, with or without new requirements to enter Laos, will likely not happen for several months, possibly not until October or even next year.

[drbeach]

On 6/14/2020 at 7:41 AM, Denim said:

Regarding Savannahket , one thing is certain. The Thai consulate there generates such tourism that exists. Without people going there for  visas a lot of hotels will go to the wall and the local economy will continue to bomb.

 

Hopefully, this will be taken into account when things begin to improve and if any visa requirements do change they will not eliminate the option to do visa runs .

Are you really implying the Savannakhet economy is primarily based on Thai expats making visa runs?

 

I don't know about that. There is an industrial park nearby, also a logistics center, seeing that Savannakhet is probably one of the busiest cross-border logistics points in the whole country, connecting Thailand with Vietnam.

 

Perhaps some hotels would close, but I don't see that being a criteria that determines whether or not border runs will be allowed or not. All countries are following UN/WHO guidelines, many of which I don't think the general public is being made aware of right now.

 

This includes the possibility of bringing in new travel requirements that will be in place permanently, after the pandemic is declared as over. What these requirements will be, I can't say. Plenty of articles in the media have given us some idea of what they may entail, but it's purely speculative at this stage.

 

My point is that I think that anyone who reckons that governments will go to all this trouble to implement these unprecedented shutdowns, quarantines, lockdowns and border closures and then just roll them back to the way they were before this started is quite naive.

 

Things changed permanently for air travel after 911 (although that was relatively minor), and things are even more likely to change after this is all over.