Europeans shut borders, block bridges, to halt migrant surge

[JetsetBkk]

Do these migrants not consider that all the barriers placed in their way might be indicative of something?

Yes they do but if you borrow someones child and the child is crying you can bet the press will go on about how terrible everyone is being treated. Thy play the sympathy card everytime

Reminds me of the scene in "Titanic" where a man grabs a child in order to be let onto the life raft.

[thaibeachlovers]

Germany has tried to get more children by incentives since many years. All in vain, Germany has one of the lowest birth rates in the world. So, Germany really needs immigration, otherwise their social system will collapse.

I don't see how inviting a lot of people to come and go on welfare is going to help the German social system. Already a lot of Turks that have been there for years are unemployed. Modern factories don't need unskilled labour. Robots are doing away with that sort of job.

What is needed is a different approach to social welfare than the one that depends on numbers of people and ever increasing production.

Even making people retire at 65 and lose money if they keep working is stupid. The elderly have a lot of good skills. Those that want to keep working should be encouraged to do so, with elder friendly working conditions.

[micmichd]

Most refugees that come to Germany actually want to work.

There's hardly any industrial jobs left in Germany, but a growing service sector. There's also much informal labour, probably also increasing.

I agree that a different appoach on social welfare is needed. I would plea for an international social security system, based on individual family accounts. It's only an idea, lots of data would be needed to evaluate models like this. The IT should be there, and it should be used pretty soon.

[NeverSure]

Wellllllll..... It didn't take Germany all that long to figure out yet another way to destroy Europe in its yet another attempt to "unify" it....

So long, Europe. It was nice knowing you. Suck it up. You asked for it with your borderless, nationless mess.

Invest in the textile biz. You're going to need a lot of robes, burkas and turbans...

Cheers.

Edited September 19, 2015 by NeverSure

[simon43]

Does anyone here have a good solution to this problem?

Yes, compulsory purchase of Malta as their new island home.

I never trusted the Maltese anyway...

[NeverSure]

I would plea for an international social security system... -snip-

Do you really think that countries which aren't STUPID enough to allow these economic opportunists into their welfare systems are going to pay for those who do?

Get this, Charley. My hard earned money is my money and you can't have any of it to support your stupidity toward freeloaders. End of.

Cheers.

[NeverSure]

^^^ 100 million of my best American (armed) friends say we aren't going to take any shit off Muslims. Hispanics aren't so bad as they are largely pacifist and Catholic and hard working. They accept the culture. Muslims have lost all credibility with their terrorism and with trying to drag their culture and laws into other countries.

Europeans gave up their sovereignty to some group they don't elect and which is demonstrably stupid. They gave up their guns in a hopeless faith in government which is failing them. They are toothless and haven't even figured out they need individual, personal power apart from government.

This lesson is going to be a hard one for the former Europe Europistan.

Cheers

Edited September 19, 2015 by NeverSure

[gigman]

If you look closely ...majority of them are young people.

Why they do not fight for own country???

If they are looking for safe place why they refuse other countries and only wants to go to Germany and England???

All I wanted as refugee 35 years ago to be safe anywhere in the free world running out from communists...

Are they spoiled to much???

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed.

The topic is about the situation in Europe.

[Ace of Pop]

[micmichd]

I would plea for an international social security system... -snip-

Do you really think that countries which aren't STUPID enough to allow these economic opportunists into their welfare systems are going to pay for those who do?

Get this, Charley. My hard earned money is my money and you can't have any of it to support your stupidity toward freeloaders. End of.

Cheers.

An international social security system based on individual (personal or family) accounts would mean that nodody's money gets lost, not even yours.

It would also mean that those scroungers that never worked in their life would not get anything at all. I wouldn't care if they die of starvation.

[Steely Dan]

Germany has tried to get more children by incentives since many years. All in vain, Germany has one of the lowest birth rates in the world. So, Germany really needs immigration, otherwise their social system will collapse.

I don't see how inviting a lot of people to come and go on welfare is going to help the German social system. Already a lot of Turks that have been there for years are unemployed. Modern factories don't need unskilled labour. Robots are doing away with that sort of job.

What is needed is a different approach to social welfare than the one that depends on numbers of people and ever increasing production.

Even making people retire at 65 and lose money if they keep working is stupid. The elderly have a lot of good skills. Those that want to keep working should be encouraged to do so, with elder friendly working conditions.

The 'need' for ever increasing populations is due to the ever increasing debt brought about by Neo-Keynesian economic policy. The debt will never be paid off and furthermore increasing numbers are needed to prevent default. Interest rates are permanently near zero because raising them at all risks collapsing the financial system.

In a nutshell suicidal immigration policies are a symptom of underlying economic mismanagement. Alas I think the system is beyond fixing short of writing off all unplayable debt and inevitable mass reverse migration as governments go bust and can't even provide for their own people.

[hugh2121]

Time the rest of the world dealt with the issue of why all these so called migrants are leaving their homelands.

It's happening because outsiders interfered in the middle east in the first place.

The ME was a mess long before there was any meddling.

And the meddling has exacerbated the mess.

[micmichd]

You're right, deficit spending is not a solution.

The problem is deeper though, it lies hidden in the concept of capitalism. Capitalism (an international affair) is self-destructive and has to be countered by something.

Social politics based on war will not work anymore, the war is already inside of Europe. Germany will not admit it, you will see all kinds of symbol ic bombardements instead - and welfare terror for those who refuse to accept.

Guess German governments are just waiting until all these Oktoberfest-like events are finished. Heidelberg (my former home town) is supposed to take up to 30,000 refugees - I wish them good luck

[NeverSure]

The problem is deeper though, it lies hidden in the concept of capitalism. Capitalism (an international affair) is self-destructive and has to be countered by something.

Capitalism isn't an international affair. You could engage in it with your own business.

Look around you. Almost every material thing you have was made by a capitalist. How else would you have a computer? The profit incentive is powerful and motivates people to provide goods and services you wouldn't otherwise have. You would be walking or riding a horse if capitalists didn't make cars, trains and buses.

In countries where capitalism isn't allowed people are poor and have few material goods and worse, they don't have jobs making or selling or delivering those material goods. The entire engine of your economy runs on capitalism. Thailand tries to get more business investment from - capitalists. They know that government can't do what business does.

[micmichd]

The problem is deeper though, it lies hidden in the concept of capitalism. Capitalism (an international affair) is self-destructive and has to be countered by something.

Capitalism isn't an international affair. You could engage in it with your own business.

Look around you. Almost every material thing you have was made by a capitalist. How else would you have a computer? The profit incentive is powerful and motivates people to provide goods and services you wouldn't otherwise have. You would be walking or riding a horse if capitalists didn't make cars, trains and buses.

In countries where capitalism isn't allowed people are poor and have few material goods and worse, they don't have jobs making or selling or delivering those material goods. The entire engine of your economy runs on capitalism. Thailand tries to get more business investment from - capitalists. They know that government can't do what business does.

Capitalism is an international affair because everybody is part of it (including myself)

That doesn't mean I have to like it, much less if I can see the danger in it.

Where's the country in which capitalism isn't allowed?

[Steely Dan]

The writing is on the wall for the mass immigration ideologues. Here is what happened in Poland the other day. Governments will either close the borders or face a backlash from their own people.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/09/poland-says-no-to-this-islamic-horde-stop-hijra/

[micmichd]

The writing is on the wall for the mass immigration ideologues. Here is what happened in Poland the other day. Governments will either close the borders or face a backlash from their own people.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/09/poland-says-no-to-this-islamic-horde-stop-hijra/

Migration is happening. That's a fact, not an ideology. the question is how to handle this fact.

German goverment would also face a backlash from part of their own people if they close the borders now. Too late

Edited September 20, 2015 by micmichd

[RickBradford]

Migration is happening. That's a fact, not an ideology. the question is how to handle this fact.

Agreed, up to a point.

It was ideology that allowed the mass migration to happen in the first place, though, and once we've handled the fact of the migration, then we need to address the pernicious ideology which let the migration happen in the first place.

[thaibeachlovers]

Germany has tried to get more children by incentives since many years. All in vain, Germany has one of the lowest birth rates in the world. So, Germany really needs immigration, otherwise their social system will collapse.

I don't see how inviting a lot of people to come and go on welfare is going to help the German social system. Already a lot of Turks that have been there for years are unemployed. Modern factories don't need unskilled labour. Robots are doing away with that sort of job.

What is needed is a different approach to social welfare than the one that depends on numbers of people and ever increasing production.

Even making people retire at 65 and lose money if they keep working is stupid. The elderly have a lot of good skills. Those that want to keep working should be encouraged to do so, with elder friendly working conditions.

The 'need' for ever increasing populations is due to the ever increasing debt brought about by Neo-Keynesian economic policy. The debt will never be paid off and furthermore increasing numbers are needed to prevent default. Interest rates are permanently near zero because raising them at all risks collapsing the financial system.

In a nutshell suicidal immigration policies are a symptom of underlying economic mismanagement. Alas I think the system is beyond fixing short of writing off all unplayable debt and inevitable mass reverse migration as governments go bust and can't even provide for their own people.

If western governments were run by people of good intent, they could sort the situation. Unfortunately, they are run by people who's only motivation is to get re elected, so they can keep their nose in the trough.

Eventually though, it will change, but I fear not for the better. Hitler sorted the German mess, but look how that turned out.

[boomerangutang]

They should be in their homeland , fighting for freedom, if western societies adopted this mentality the world would have changed for the worst after ww2. They are economic migrants not refugees.

If your talking about Syrians exactly who would provide training, weapons and logistical support? Currently if they don't wish to fight for mass murderers (Assad regime or Islamist groups) they're reliant on the US training camps in Jordan that have proved to be an utter failure - where to next?

They and their ancestors destroyed their homelands. How long b4 they and their descendants screw-up Europe? 10 yrs? 25 yrs? ....where to next? further NE to Iceland, Greenland, New Bruswick? ...if global warming keeps going as predicted, places further north, including Scandinavia, will become warmer. How long until their partially covered in sand dunes and tents, each family with 5 to 15 kids?

Turn them all back with a message to go fight for their country

Their predecesors wrecked their home countries in every way possible. They keep popping out babies and will never cease seeking better places to reside.

[thaibeachlovers]

IMO the end is inevitable. They will send most of them back to Turkey and give money to Turkey to support them in camps there. That is what they should have been doing all the time. However, regardless of the squeals of faux outrage from the UN, the countries affected are beginning to erect razor wire, backed up with tear gas. Not long till Euro is closed to illegal migration and they will have to wait years in camps for a chance.

[RickBradford]

IMO the end is inevitable. They will send most of them back to Turkey and give money to Turkey to support them in camps there. That is what they should have been doing all the time. However, regardless of the squeals of faux outrage from the UN, the countries affected are beginning to erect razor wire, backed up with tear gas. Not long till Euro is closed to illegal migration and they will have to wait years in camps for a chance.

I hope you're right. But repatriating hundreds of thousands of people who don't want to go, and feel entitled to go and live off taxpayer money in Sweden, Germany and the UK, will be a massive task.

Even more, I hope that this incredible failure of the EU kommissariat leads to a fatal weakening of the EU as a whole.

The UK stayed out of the euro, and out of the Schengen agreement, both of which have proved to be prescient moves, and the UK mood is turning very anti-EU before the promised referendum in 2017.

The EU doesn't need the UK, but the withdrawal of such a major player would still be a body blow to EU credibility, and the probable end of the bureaucratic dream of 'ever-closer integration'. Something to hope for, certainly.

[Steely Dan]

And what do you have to say about this Merkel? Munich can't cope with any more migrants without facing a 'humanitarian catastrophe'.

Should fit in perfectly with the Oktoberfest.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/09/we-cannot-guarantee-the-safety-of-munich-any-longer/

[simple1]

They should be in their homeland , fighting for freedom, if western societies adopted this mentality the world would have changed for the worst after ww2. They are economic migrants not refugees.

If your talking about Syrians exactly who would provide training, weapons and logistical support? Currently if they don't wish to fight for mass murderers (Assad regime or Islamist groups) they're reliant on the US training camps in Jordan that have proved to be an utter failure - where to next?

They and their ancestors destroyed their homelands. How long b4 they and their descendants screw-up Europe? 10 yrs? 25 yrs? ....where to next? further NE to Iceland, Greenland, New Bruswick? ...if global warming keeps going as predicted, places further north, including Scandinavia, will become warmer. How long until their partially covered in sand dunes and tents, each family with 5 to 15 kids?

Turn them all back with a message to go fight for their country

Their predecesors wrecked their home countries in every way possible. They keep popping out babies and will never cease seeking better places to reside.

In other words you have no response to the question on how those fleeing war and persecution in Syria can "fight for freedom".

Rhetoric with words such as 'keep popping out babies', IMO, reflects that of the Nazis (but with a different 'other'). The national birth rate average in Syria is now estimated to be at less than three children per woman & predicted to fall to a maximum of two per female by 2025; the birth rate to maintain population replacement is 2.1 per female.

[micmichd]

And what do you have to say about this Merkel? Munich can't cope with any more migrants without facing a 'humanitarian catastrophe'.

Should fit in perfectly with the Oktoberfest.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/09/we-cannot-guarantee-the-safety-of-munich-any-longer/

Well, this woman from Munich SPD complained about 55,000 refugees passing through Munich Central Station during the last weeks. Munich CS is a big station with 450,000 passengers daily (average), and it can also handle the additional crowd coming in for Oktoberfest. So it shoudn't be that difficult.

There's of course the problem that many of these Oktoberfest visitors are completely drunk and might start fights with refugees as soon as they see them. But there are other railway stations in Munich, so the trains with refugees wouldn't necessarily have to stop over in Munich CS.

Just a logistic problem for Deutsche Bahn.

Meanwhile, the German government might wait for UK and France to go to Syria to fight. The trouble in Syria is there's more than 2 parties fighting, so they might need a coalition there - even with the Assad regime.

[Credo]

And what do you have to say about this Merkel? Munich can't cope with any more migrants without facing a 'humanitarian catastrophe'.

Should fit in perfectly with the Oktoberfest.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/09/we-cannot-guarantee-the-safety-of-munich-any-longer/

<snipped>

Meanwhile, the German government might wait for UK and France to go to Syria to fight. The trouble in Syria is there's more than 2 parties fighting, so they might need a coalition there - even with the Assad regime.

Dictators don't usually do well with coalitions. But in that part of the world nothing seems to work well anyway.

[micmichd]

And what do you have to say about this Merkel? Munich can't cope with any more migrants without facing a 'humanitarian catastrophe'.

Should fit in perfectly with the Oktoberfest.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/09/we-cannot-guarantee-the-safety-of-munich-any-longer/

<snipped>

Meanwhile, the German government might wait for UK and France to go to Syria to fight. The trouble in Syria is there's more than 2 parties fighting, so they might need a coalition there - even with the Assad regime.

Dictators don't usually do well with coalitions. But in that part of the world nothing seems to work well anyway.

Depends on how much they have to lose, and it depends on the reliability of their military forces.

Syria might get divided if the Assad regime refuses a coalition. And "the Assad regime" does not necessarily have to remain under the control of Basher al-Assad forever.

[otherstuff1957]

Winter is coming.

The first snows will turn the flood of migrants into a trickle and the whole issue will be forgotten.

Until next spring!

[chuckd]

Winter is coming.

The first snows will turn the flood of migrants into a trickle and the whole issue will be forgotten.

Until next spring!

And then the Arab spring could erupt anew, but in central Europe this time.