'Defrauded by my wife and criminals in Thailand' - BBC special report

[MeHere]

A very recent story:

My ex (Thai) bought a property in Chiang Rai under her niece's (she took care of her like she was her mom from infancy) name because she trusted her and she was a member of a local farmer's credit union and could get low interest rates... My ex made all the payments/down payment/taxes/insurance etc

This year was when she was finally going to get the deed (or whatever it's called here) from the lender, but she just found out that the niece took out another full mortgage without saying/asking a word just because she wanted the money, which is all gone now, of course.

Brokenhearted, my ex came back to try to fix it all up with her sister (niece's mother) and the niece... now the niece is in Malaysia with her mom, who owns a Thai massage shop, to pay back all taken.

I gotta say, It's gonna take a lot of massages to pay back what she took, I think she'd be hopeful to recover even close to what was taken.

In the end, don't think that it's limited to Thais screwing foreigners only... just like the rest of the world, they're quite able to screw 'their own'... I'll bet that the OP's wife was equally but differently screwed by these thugs.

[Thaidream]

It is interesting this this thread has gotten so much viewing and responses. I have a feeling- many believe- that there for the grace of God- go I; This can happen to anyone in any country given circumstances of wealth and fraud. It does happen more in Thailand than anywhere else I have ever been. Part of it is the inherent gullibility of people in general; people looking for love in the all wrong places; couples not being able to communicate; and a lax legal system. I don't condemn anyone if this happens to them. I shall not call them stupid or ignorant. However, reading over these posts- I was almost inclined to go to Soi Cowboy, grab a grog and a girl and have a chat. I asked my wife if I should go and she said yes with a nice Thai smile, except when I looked in her eyes, she really meant- don't even think about it. Communication, my friends- ever so difficult in Thailand! Those who have been here for awhile will get the point. I can always go to Soi Cowboy some other time.

[MyFriend You]

Wow, 19 pages and counting, Rainy day here in South Africa, I read them all liked the ones hat are constructive and not demeaning (there are quite a few) the rest don't deserve a second glance, just adding to my growing list of "Ignore" posters. Jeez, I really wonder how many of these Thai Women bashers are heterosexual?? How many don't even live in Thaland?? or if he do, How many have been defrauded by Thai women or Katoeys??

Oh, BTW, my pic was taken on my 65th birthday, I am a 'Hansum Man' always have been, have had ups & downs with Thai, Canbodian, and Vietamese women over the past 45 years.......but would do it all over again in a heart beat should I re-incarnate.

[MobileContent]

Hopeless cause......You have the gift of foresight? Maybe you could give me next weeks Euromillions numbers?

........ don't buy that lottery ticket, you won't win, you're just wasting money.

Some futures are so obvious, anyone can predict them.

I always buy lottery under the table. Dreamed of 481 and bought 481 = 500x500 418 = 500x500 and 814 = 500 x 500.

All 3 numbers won last week.

[flyingdoc]

Tragedy for the children.

[PeVee1st]

If I may make some remarks, a lot has been said about the Op & the pros & cons of Thailand.

What I think is that it is good to report all these cases & name the culprits, maybe someone will be saved a similar anguish.

Fraudsters are everywhere, beware of all peoples, especially those you do business with!!

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed.

[maprao]

It can happen to any of us living in our Thai wives house that we paid for or built and paid for; including me. There for the grace of God go all of us.

For me it was and is a fair price to pay for a lady that has taken care of me through thick and thin Good and Bad, rich and poor. (over 16 years we have seen all of this). In a thai way even maybe loves me.. It is her security blanket. She is not currently interested in any of my stuff overseas.

Here love and money are intrinsically linked in all social walks of life

Edited September 20, 2015 by maprao

[slipperx]

Had the same thing happen to me. Two children.married 15 years. Trumped up some charges. Got me arrested and put in prison for nothing. Couldn't bail out because lawyers kept stealing the bail money. While she and her family stole and sold everything I owned. That's highly illegal in any country. But no arrests yet....

It would be really helpful if people who have been defrauded and scammed would go to a facebook page which can be found by a google search for Justice against fraud on foreigners in Thailand. There is a spreadsheet there will collates ANONYMOUS information on case types, whats happened since, any success or otherwise through the courts etc. - in an attempt to get an idea of the scale of the fraud being dumped on foreigners in Thiland. There are plenty of Thais who are affected as well and Thais are certainly welcome to contribute. The information is screened by a human to make sure there is no identifying information and where names of lawyers or law firms is given in the form you fill in - which is completely optional - these names will be converted to non identifying letters to avoid any come back. It wouold help a lot if people would contribute.

[slipperx]

Look at him, look at her.

Everyone can see what's gonna happen ........ except him.

Question from interviewer, "What would you say to people that want to come here?"

Answer from me, "Don't marry a woman 1/3 your weight and 1/2 your age and expect her to love you or be trustworthy"

This isn't rocket science.

It is not rocket science to understand that 15 years ago when all this happened I was not 3 times her weight. But it is true that there was a 15 year age difference. It is interesting to note that in the UK my parents had a 15 year age difference but no one thought much of it and they stayed together all their life. Perhaps your perception is different or maybe you like making glib comments without knowing much about the real circumstances?

[taxin]

Some people play it smart.

Rent the house.

Rent the moto.

Rent the wife.

Keep money/valuables "back home" - out of reach to all except yourself.

Others - not so smart.

So what about the farang guys who have lived in Thailand for many years and made their money in Thailand with a Thai company, ones who are married to a Thai who has contributed to the success of that business, the husband having absolutely no ties "back home" in their country of origin, no bank account, not even an address ?

Are these guys regarded as not so smart ?

They are regarded as the very few lucky ones. Just like winning a lottery, it's just good luck.

So one says they are not so smart, the other says lucky, quite a difference in opinions there. I think you might find there are more than a few of these "lucky ones", you just don't hear about them as they don't make the news.

In all my years of living in Thailand I have never met (or know anyone who knows has met) a married farang that has had a similar case to what happened to Ian Vance and Colin Vard. So I guess I only know the stupid lottery winners !

[slipperx]

criminal energy is not only in Thailand, happened around the world

And around the world criminals are pursued by the criminal justice system. In Thailand the law does not work quite the same way! Not only are the systems used to transfer valuable assets very easy to circumvent but the justice system bends over backwards not to find them guilty especially where a foreigner is the victim.

[slipperx]

so super over weight Ian could not see this coming?

sorry to say, just look at the body language and expression on this wife's face in all the photos.

in the first 30 seconds you hear him say "... I was looking for a place with rule of law..."

are you completely clueless? everything in this video is what I found on google seven years ago on the first day researching Thailand. He must have never done a moments research.

I am sure Ian has a big heart, loved his wife and is a good and trusting person.

But you must have a healthy dose of paranoia to survive in Thailand.

Don't get married! Don't "buy" land. Assume nothing.

In 1998 Google search did not turn up much on this - seven years ago was two years after this happened so your point is tardy.

[cumgranosalum]

If I was a beautiful young woman and had to live with an elderly man for a decade, I must admit the chances of growing to dislike him enough to take him for all I could, would seem to get more attractive as the years rolled by....

Edited September 20, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[slipperx]

so super over weight Ian could not see this coming?

sorry to say, just look at the body language and expression on this wife's face in all the photos.

in the first 30 seconds you hear him say "... I was looking for a place with rule of law..."

are you completely clueless? everything in this video is what I found on google seven years ago on the first day researching Thailand. He must have never done a moments research.

I am sure Ian has a big heart, loved his wife and is a good and trusting person.

But you must have a healthy dose of paranoia to survive in Thailand.

Don't get married! Don't "buy" land. Assume nothing.

"so super over weight Ian could not see this coming?" - guessing you look like the Greek god Adonis? "People who live in glass houses......."

actually yes, i am very good looking. i grew up in Hollywood, that is why i can see this shit a mile away. I don't fall in love with the first beautiful girl I meet in Thailand because I have been with beautiful girls all my life.

I am not trying to experience something I never have before. I feel really badly for the guys who are suddenly for the first time in their lives "handsome". it is like a powerful drug. and you just want the lie to go on and on.

I am saying DON'T BE PLAYED. STAY IN CONTROL and be happy KNOWING IT IS FALSE.

Grew up in Hollywood and so master of the cliché!

[Gecko123]

I have nothing but enormous admiration for the OP's determination to seek justice.

To those who arrogantly ridicule the OP for remarrying and apparently not learning the lesson that all (Thai) women can't be trusted, the courage he has shown by going public with his story, and the personal resilience he has shown by not becoming bitter and cynical and moving forward with his life should be an inspiration to us all.

To those who commented that the OP got what he deserved because he tried to circumvent Thai land laws, fair enough, but let's not forget that in most cases the motivation for doing so was out of a desire to provide for their Thai families. Is a little empathy too much to ask?

[slipperx]

This is what you need to remember when you come here to live which is nothing like vacationing here. This culture is 180 opposite to yours. Here family comes first and I mean first. What you think is love is really just respect of your ability to provide for her and her family. You will have her respect as long as you remember this. If you fail or even if she perceives that your not willing to do this then there is no such thing as forgiveness only revenge and compensation. And she will initiate a rather elaborate scheme to defraud you of your assets. She will do this to insure she can continue to live in the manner she has grown accustomed to. When she decides to leave you there will be no indicators. When she is ready to leave you will be blindsided. Take a look at some of the so called happily married foreigners who have that passive subdued demeanor. That is the face of a man that is at the mercy of a woman that can take everything he has and that which is signed in her name. You can't win for the police, the laws and a nation of Thais stand against you. Keep your head and a stash..

She was an orphan!

[slipperx]

He should have his kids get a DNA test to make sure they are his.

Done that - they are!

[lostoday]

If I was a beautiful young woman and had to live with an elderly man for a decade, I must admit the chances of growing to dislike him enough to take him for all I could, would seem to get more attractive as the years rolled by....

So fraud is OK as long as there is a large age difference between male and Thai female? Is murder OK too?

[slipperx]

This is unbelievably shocking...!

Yes I agree, the video was most disturbing.

Nothing shouts out UK farang sucker than going to the beach wearing socks and shoes.

But really lets get to the guts of it.

Does any sane person sign up his cash on a contract to form a company where he does not have control?

49% doesn't give you control.

This is the same guy who had quite a portfolio of properties on Phuket isn't it?

Sometimes love, greed and stupidity can be a very bad combination.

Quite strange then that this is exactly what the British Government covers (businesses in Thailand) at https://www.gov.uk/governemnt/publications/exporting-to Thailand/

[Ling Kae]

Some people play it smart.

Rent the house.

Rent the moto.

Rent the wife.

Keep money/valuables "back home" - out of reach to all except yourself.

Others - not so smart.

So what about the farang guys who have lived in Thailand for many years and made their money in Thailand with a Thai company, ones who are married to a Thai who has contributed to the success of that business, the husband having absolutely no ties "back home" in their country of origin, no bank account, not even an address ?

Are these guys regarded as not so smart ?

They are regarded as the very few lucky ones. Just like winning a lottery, it's just good luck.

So one says they are not so smart, the other says lucky, quite a difference in opinions there. I think you might find there are more than a few of these "lucky ones", you just don't hear about them as they don't make the news.

In all my years of living in Thailand I have never met (or know anyone who knows has met) a married farang that has had a similar case to what happened to Ian Vance and Colin Vard. So I guess I only know the stupid lottery winners !

You have got to be kidding, I know many personally who have lost their lot and many more stories that I have heard many times over from others on casual meetings. It goes on and on all the time and it never ceases to amaze me that some very otherwise intelligent and successful businessmen seem to leave their collective wit at the airport locker room and do everything different here in Thailand. You really have NO RIGHTS here, get use to it, be prepared to lose the lot if you want invest put your money into Thailand. Up to you how you play your game, I will play mine my way, that way I stay in control all the time, they can't get my house/condo/lease/shares if I don't have any.

[Thaidream]

I do admire Ian as one of the other posters stated. He is seeking justice and has put his story out there. He still has some money left as he is able to still come to Thailand and fight for justice against big odds. He is not bitter about Thais and he has remarried a Thai lady. This is much to his credit.

I really do not have all the answers- I do know that Thai people think completely different than we do as Westerners. Yet, I have had two decent marriages so far with Thai's (first wife deceased).and seem to be respected by most Thai people I interact with. Thailand is not the same as when I came 50 years ago-nor am I. there is much pressure on Thai's to succeed and have a stable future. The cost of living is ever increasing and prices on home purchase and land have skyrocketed over the years. The cost of a good education is moving higher and higher.Most Thai's and foreigners alike just want to live a decent and peaceful life. In addition, Thailand has more foreigners than it can really accommodate. Thai's are tired of foreigners not respecting their culture or their sensitivities. Call it Farang Fatigue- but it is just not Westerners. Soon it will be China fatigue or India fatigue.

Unfortunately, there will be more stories like Ian and the other gentleman who was defrauded out of his life savings. They were both betrayed. It is a rather depressing read, especially when there are so many condemning Ian and making fun of his appearance.

I wish both of them good luck- they are going to need that and a lot more.

[MaeJoMTB]

In addition, Thailand has more foreigners than it can really accommodate.

Have you ever visited London?

As one Thai lady visitor to London said, "Where are all the white people?"

especially when there are so many condemning Ian and making fun of his appearance.

Not making fun of his appearance, more like wondering how he thought a 20 year old slim Thai woman could love him for real.

It just isn't believable!

She had to see him as a cash cow from day one.

Edited September 20, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[tomacht8]

I do not know how high the actual number is, from people who were really defrauded of house and home.
But I'm sure that a lot more foreigners here are financially broken by booze and prostitutes.

[steven100]

I do not know how high the actual number is, from people who were really defrauded of house and home.

But I'm sure that a lot more foreigners here are financially broken by booze and prostitutes.

just bang and drink as much piss as possible ....

[lostoday]

In addition, Thailand has more foreigners than it can really accommodate.

Have you ever visited London?

As one Thai lady visitor to London said, "Where are all the white people?"

especially when there are so many condemning Ian and making fun of his appearance.

Not making fun of his appearance, more like wondering how he thought a 20 year old slim Thai woman could love him for real.

It just isn't believable!

She had to see him as a cash cow from day one.

If you are not making fun of his appearance you could have fooled me. BTW what difference does it make? Should we cut her some slack and not send her to jail because of the age difference?

[SamuiAxe]

This is what you need to remember when you come here to live which is nothing like vacationing here. This culture is 180 opposite to yours. Here family comes first and I mean first. What you think is love is really just respect of your ability to provide for her and her family. You will have her respect as long as you remember this. If you fail or even if she perceives that your not willing to do this then there is no such thing as forgiveness only revenge and compensation. And she will initiate a rather elaborate scheme to defraud you of your assets. She will do this to insure she can continue to live in the manner she has grown accustomed to. When she decides to leave you there will be no indicators. When she is ready to leave you will be blindsided. Take a look at some of the so called happily married foreigners who have that passive subdued demeanor. That is the face of a man that is at the mercy of a woman that can take everything he has and that which is signed in her name. You can't win for the police, the laws and a nation of Thais stand against you. Keep your head and a stash..

Been living together now with my Thai GF for almost 4 years. I pay the rent and put food on the table, but I'm not giving her a single bath 'pocket money'! She has a small bakery that provides for her private-money, we never, ever have problems about money or payments! If she wants to buy something or donate to the family than that's her choice, and her money.. A friend of mine gave his GF 15.000 per month pocket-money.. After some 5 years his financial situation deteriorated and he told her that he could not give that much any more.. He was willing to give her 10.000 per month.. Three days later she left him.. That was a wise lesson for me, so I never fell in that booby-trap!

[slipperx]

At the beginning of the video Ian says he wanted to retire in Thailand because it's warm and the laws were sound. At the end he claims the opposite.

He seems to be in denial like many posters here.

Not in denial. I cannot leave Thailand as I am being sued back by one of the criminals on the allegation that I knew all about the forged documents somehow. The case passd through the court as papers were knowingly sent to a wrong address. Given these cases will likely take many years to complete and in that time I am stuck here with responsibility for my four children what would people suggest. Have no life, run away or just cease to exist? Most people here seem to think only of what is in front of their face and don't take even a moment to think a little beyond that. The kids deserve a life and so do I and that is what I will work towards despite the disgusting and abusive commenters on here. Thank you to those who have shown a little humanity and sensitivity.

[itsmylife]

Theres a chinese saying dun feed the Wife too much until she's 80 .

[slipperx]

"since their mother was jailed". The report made it sound like nothing was done at all on his behalf... I'm curious what happened to put her in jail. I feel there's a big part of this story missing.

I sued her in a private criminal case. I had her arrested myself after the court issued the arrest warrant and refused to pay the 45,000 baht the police demanded but eventually got her to court for judgement. There is the missing part for you.