Lite Beer Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 US says VW intentionally violates clean air standardsMATTHEW DALY, Associated PressWASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said Friday that Volkswagen intentionally skirted clean air laws by using a piece of software that enabled about 500,000 of its diesel cars to emit fewer smog-causing pollutants during testing than in real-world driving conditions.The agency ordered VW to fix the cars at its own expense. The German automaker also faces billions of dollars in fines, although exact amounts were not determined.The cars, all built in the last seven years, include the VW Jetta, Beetle, Golf and Passat models, as well as the Audi A3. The vehicles all contain a device programmed to detect when they are undergoing official emissions testing, the EPA said. The cars only turn on full emissions control systems during that testing. The controls are turned off during normal driving situations, the EPA said, allowing the cars to emit more than the legal limit of pollutants.The EPA called the company's use of the so-called "defeat device" illegal and a threat to public health."EPA is committed to making sure that all automakers play by the same rules," said Cynthia Giles, assistant EPA administrator for enforcement and compliance assurance.The EPA called on VW to fix the cars' emissions systems, but said car owners do not need to take any immediate action. The violations do not present a safety hazard and the cars remain legal to drive and sell while Volkswagen comes up with a plan to recall and repair them, the EPA said.VW, which also owns Audi, said in a statement it is cooperating with the investigation, but declined further comment.The EPA said VW faces fines of up to $37,500 per vehicle for the violations — a total of more than $18 billion. No final total was announced. California issued a separate compliance order to VW, and officials announced an investigation by the California Air Resources Board.Despite the seriousness of the violation, the EPA said VW will be given "a reasonable amount of time to develop a plan to complete the repairs," including both the repair procedure and manufacture of any needed parts.It could take up to a year to identify corrective actions, develop a recall plan and issue recall notices, the EPA said.Environmental groups hailed the EPA and California for moving aggressively to enforce clean air laws."The charges here are truly appalling: that Volkswagen knowingly installed software that produced much higher smog-forming emissions from diesel vehicles in the real world than in pre-sale tests," said Frank O'Donnell, president of Clean Air Watch, a Washington-based advocacy group.O'Donnell accused VW of "cheating not just car buyers but the breathing public." He said the charges undercut industry rhetoric about "clean diesel" cars.The Volkswagens likely perform better with the emissions controls defeated than they do with them on, said Aaron Bragman, Detroit bureau chief for the Cars.com automotive shopping and research site. Otherwise, he said, there would be no reason to have a setting that turns on the controls for tests and turns them off for regular driving."Obviously it's changing the way the engine operates somehow that may not be pleasing to consumers," he said. "It would follow that it would put it into a very different feel in terms of operation of the vehicle."But Bragman said other countries may allow different modes for testing and normal driving.The allegations cover roughly 482,000 diesel passenger cars sold in the United States since 2008. Affected models include:— Jetta (model years 2009-15)— Beetle (model years 2009-15)— Audi A3 (model years 2009-15)— Golf (model years 2009-15)— Passat (model years 2014-15)____AP Auto Writer Tom Krisher in Detroit contributed to this story -- (c) Associated Press 2015-09-19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Good for the EPA. Volkswagen should be given 90 days to buy all of those cars back at full new car price and get them off the road until they are fixed. An oversight is one thing but deliberately trying to cheat the buyer, and the breathing public is another. The US allows Germany to manufacture all of those cars (plus BMW and Mercedes) in the US without penalty or import duty - free access to the world's largest auto market and then Germany cheats everyone in the process. Get them the hell out of the US for good. They don't deserve access to the marketplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan96822 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Interesting stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 On the bright side, think of how busy the EPA will be when China starts making cars in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerojero Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Good for the EPA. Volkswagen should be given 90 days to buy all of those cars back at full new car price and get them off the road until they are fixed. An oversight is one thing but deliberately trying to cheat the buyer, and the breathing public is another. The US allows Germany to manufacture all of those cars (plus BMW and Mercedes) in the US without penalty or import duty - free access to the world's largest auto market and then Germany cheats everyone in the process. Get them the hell out of the US for good. They don't deserve access to the marketplace. Agree with you, other than BMW manufacturers 100% their cars in Germany, none in USA or other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawapete Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 This is not on a problem only related to VW. Fact is that EU and California standards requires engines to Run so lean in fuel/air ratio that they do not perform probably. It is very common for cars and motorcycles to have a special lean = low pollution setting in the ECU (fuel injection controller) at the load or rpm range where they are tested on the different markets. That's also why there is a big market for aftermarket ECU's that changes the fuel/ air ratio and make cars and motorcycles much more smooth in power delivery. So the issue is that the good old engine technologies are pushes to the limit to fulfill increasing demands for low emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Agree with you, other than BMW manufacturers 100% their cars in Germany, none in USA or other countries. Not true... https://www.bmwusfactory.com/manufacturing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilSA1 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 VW - disgusting. Hitler will be proud of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phitsanulokjohn Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 The fine equates to roughly the retail cost of each vehicle.....ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Do you think if it were GM the punishment would have been so server... VW $18 Billion GM $0.9 Billion for cover up of faulty switch that have been attributed to over 100 deaths... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34276419 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seastallion Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 18 billion dollars....I think they may consider appealing for the next 20 years instead. Has to be cheaper. And by that time, none of the cars will still be around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 18 billion dollars....I think they may consider appealing for the next 20 years instead. Has to be cheaper. And by that time, none of the cars will still be around.You're talking VW, not Chevy. In 20 years they'll still be around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attento Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 So, which Environmental Protection body or trading standards authority has been responsible during the previous 7 years for testing and verifying compliance with Legislation ? Someone has questions to answer, not only VW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 On the bright side, think of how busy the EPA will be when China starts making cars in the US. Your just Cherry picking again no sorry picking on Chery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Looks like Das Auto is getting Das boot in das bum. Edited September 20, 2015 by elgordo38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Agree with you, other than BMW manufacturers 100% their cars in Germany, none in USA or other countries. Not at all true. They manufacture BMW's in Spartanburg, South Carolina. There are 17 different manufacturers in the US including Volkswagen, BMW and Mercedes and Japanese companies. Being allowed free and unfettered access to the US car market doesn't including being allowed to cheat and pollute the air. Volkswagen should be sent packing. No one needs them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 The EPA said VW faces fines of up to $37,500 per vehicle for the violations a total of more than $18 billion. No final total was announced. California issued a separate compliance order to VW, and officials announced an investigation by the California Air Resources Board. That's the beauty of federalism. Now each of the 50 states of the USA where the affected Volkwagen models have been sold can separately sue Volkswagen and impose their own fines. Watch the Volkswagen share price go down some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Agree with you, other than BMW manufacturers 100% their cars in Germany, none in USA or other countries. Not at all true. They manufacture BMW's in Spartanburg, South Carolina. There are 17 different manufacturers in the US including Volkswagen, BMW and Mercedes and Japanese companies. Being allowed free and unfettered access to the US car market doesn't including being allowed to cheat and pollute the air. Volkswagen should be sent packing. No one needs them anyway. Do you honestly think it's German workers building these cars in America? Also exactly how many diesel cars do American manufacturers build in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Do you honestly think it's German workers building these cars in America?Also exactly how many diesel cars do American manufacturers build in the US? Your point is???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKKdreaming Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 VW has a HUGE assembly plant in Mexico that has been there 40-50 years very few of the VWs on the showroom floor are German made , I will say that if VW figured this out , that there is a good chance that other Auto companies are also doing the same thing. 18 Billion is a crazy number , it will give the courts something to do for the few years ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Do you honestly think it's German workers building these cars in America?Also exactly how many diesel cars do American manufacturers build in the US? Your point is???? If you don't understand, never mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKKdreaming Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 it will be interesting to see if this computer code or something like it was also in the European software , The EU clean air standards are just as strict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Good for the EPA. Volkswagen should be given 90 days to buy all of those cars back at full new car price and get them off the road until they are fixed. An oversight is one thing but deliberately trying to cheat the buyer, and the breathing public is another. The US allows Germany to manufacture all of those cars (plus BMW and Mercedes) in the US without penalty or import duty - free access to the world's largest auto market and then Germany cheats everyone in the process. Get them the hell out of the US for good. They don't deserve access to the marketplace. Damn straight. We can live without VW products. There aren't any French cars in the U.S., and who cares? There are so many better choices than VW products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 18 billion dollars....I think they may consider appealing for the next 20 years instead. Has to be cheaper. And by that time, none of the cars will still be around.You're talking VW, not Chevy. In 20 years they'll still be around. A number of Chevy models such as the new-since-2014 Impala are far better than many German vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Good for the EPA. Volkswagen should be given 90 days to buy all of those cars back at full new car price and get them off the road until they are fixed. An oversight is one thing but deliberately trying to cheat the buyer, and the breathing public is another. The US allows Germany to manufacture all of those cars (plus BMW and Mercedes) in the US without penalty or import duty - free access to the world's largest auto market and then Germany cheats everyone in the process. Get them the hell out of the US for good. They don't deserve access to the marketplace. A NY Times article mentions that with the emission control turned off, these vehicles spew out 40 times the legal limit of particulate emissions. That's why the fines are so heavy, and why US-based VW executives should go to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 18 billion dollars....I think they may consider appealing for the next 20 years instead. Has to be cheaper. And by that time, none of the cars will still be around.You're talking VW, not Chevy. In 20 years they'll still be around. A number of Chevy models such as the new-since-2014 Impala are far better than many German vehicles. Chevy website lists two diesel models the Cruze complete with Fiat sourced engine and the Silverado with a small truck lump (perfect for the type of truck)...couldn't find a diesel Impala. And strangely all the Cruze advertising is against the VW Passat or Jetta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Good for the EPA. Volkswagen should be given 90 days to buy all of those cars back at full new car price and get them off the road until they are fixed. An oversight is one thing but deliberately trying to cheat the buyer, and the breathing public is another. The US allows Germany to manufacture all of those cars (plus BMW and Mercedes) in the US without penalty or import duty - free access to the world's largest auto market and then Germany cheats everyone in the process. Get them the hell out of the US for good. They don't deserve access to the marketplace. A NY Times article mentions that with the emission control turned off, these vehicles spew out 40 times the legal limit of particulate emissions. That's why the fines are so heavy, and why US-based VW executives should go to jail. I'm presuming in the wake of these reports that the EPA will check EVERY diesel vehicle sold new in the USA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I think the big problem for VW is that this was done intentionally. That is fraudulent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I think the big problem for VW is that this was done intentionally. That is fraudulent. I honestly think that the vast majority have tweaks like this. Just this one was leaked OR another manufacturer has spent time finding any loopholes in VW's specifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 RELATED TOPIC VW chief 'sorry' after EPA says firm skirted clean air law Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/857405-vw-chief-sorry-after-us-epa-says-firm-skirted-clean-air-law/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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