Non-Imm O Visa no longer available to unmarried farangs with Thai dependents

[billd766]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/858277-the-phuket-property-nightmare/

a must watch/read for anyone thinking of getting married here and buying property ​

​

Whilst I can understand their problems and sympathise with them this seems to happen quite a lot in places like Phuket. I like both of those guys trusted my Thai wife and still do and she has given me no reason not to distrust her.

Having said all that I can't remember a year go by since I moved here full time in 2001 when something like this has never happened, despite warnings on Thai Visa and in the papers. I can't count the number of times that the warnings have been made that the "company route" to owning land and property is not safe and probably illegal.

What annoys me a bit about the programme with Jonathon Head is that there doesn't seem to be any balance in his report. He doesn't seem to have found anyone who has had no problems and is quite content with the way things have turned out in the longer term.

I knew before I finally moved to Thailand that whilst I could legally own a condo ( subject to the 49% rule) I would be unable to own any land or property unless I deposited a large amount of USD$ in the country.

Having learnt all that I came over and provided my wife with the money to buy the land next door to her plot and to build the house as well. I knew that and still know now that if it all goes tits up I will get no money back.

When I divorced my first wife in the UK I kept my pensions and she kept the house so I was no better off in the UK than I would be here.

[ubonjoe]

what about visa non O in savanakhet still ok for non o thai child ?

As far as I know it still is not a problem to get a single entry non-o.

A multiple entry is only possible if the entire family is present when the application is done to prove you are living together as a family (de facto marriage).

I was told only yesterday at the Thai Embassy in London that unmarried farang's are NO LONGER ENTITLED to obtain Non-Imm O Visa's in regard to having a dependant Thai child

Perhaps not from them. It does not mean it is worldwide. You will find every embassy will have their own policies.

As I wrote before I suspect they might still do them if you had legitimization documents to show.

[thai006]

what about visa non O in savanakhet still ok for non o thai child ?

As far as I know it still is not a problem to get a single entry non-o.

A multiple entry is only possible if the entire family is present when the application is done to prove you are living together as a family (de facto marriage).

U think i can aply for a multiple entry if the mom and my child come together in savan ? not marry but together 6 year

[nev]

How old is the child?

As Thai law is that you are not the father of the child as you are not married, and if the child is under a certain age then

you must apply to be recognised by the courts as the father of the child, maybe they are tightening up these rules and

giving the Embassies the rules to follow word for word.

My boy will be 2yrs old in March

I agree that there are only two methods in which to 'aquire' fatherhood for a Thai child, the easiest is just to marry the childs mother, & the 2nd is to apply to the Family Court for a Judge to decide. To cut to the 'chase', I do intend to marry the mother in the nearest future, but I need to do a few things before that will happen, as we 'all' know once married everything either of us aquire is owned 50/50.

So my 1st objective will be to create a company, & as I can only own 49% of said company, the other 51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other (key point), this gives me control of the company, once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

Always remember that you will be responsible for any debts that she might run up after you are married so just hiding your assets from her is not the complete answer

What happens if your wife has more assets than yourself, my wife is probably worth more than me but it is in houses and land, I do not intend to divorce her but if I did would I be entitled to claim any of her assets?, surely it works both ways.

[Jip66]

what about visa non O in savanakhet still ok for non o thai child ?

As far as I know it still is not a problem to get a single entry non-o.

A multiple entry is only possible if the entire family is present when the application is done to prove you are living together as a family (de facto marriage).

I was told only yesterday at the Thai Embassy in London that unmarried farang's are NO LONGER ENTITLED to obtain Non-Imm O Visa's in regard to having a dependant Thai child

Perhaps not from them. It does not mean it is worldwide. You will find every embassy will have their own policies.

As I wrote before I suspect they might still do them if you had legitimization documents to show.

UJ, what do you think I took to show them? This week's losing lottery ticket? I have ALL the 'legitimization documents to show', I have obtain THREE Non-Imm O Visa's previously from Vientien with the same documents I provided on Wednesday, but they were not good enough this time, they wanted to see a valid marrige certificate, nothing else mattered to them. They categorically told me Non-Imm O Visa's are NO LONGER AVAILABLE for unmarried farangs with Thai dependents, their words, not mine

Edited September 25, 2015 by Jip66

[ubonjoe]

what about visa non O in savanakhet still ok for non o thai child ?

As far as I know it still is not a problem to get a single entry non-o.

A multiple entry is only possible if the entire family is present when the application is done to prove you are living together as a family (de facto marriage).

U think i can aply for a multiple entry if the mom and my child come together in savan ? not marry but together 6 year

Their have been reports of them doing them if the family is with you.

Birth certificate, mothers ID card and her and child's house book registry.plus copies. Legitimization documents if you have them,

[Goldieinkathu]

How old is the child?

As Thai law is that you are not the father of the child as you are not married, and if the child is under a certain age then

you must apply to be recognised by the courts as the father of the child, maybe they are tightening up these rules and

giving the Embassies the rules to follow word for word.

My boy will be 2yrs old in March

I agree that there are only two methods in which to 'aquire' fatherhood for a Thai child, the easiest is just to marry the childs mother, & the 2nd is to apply to the Family Court for a Judge to decide. To cut to the 'chase', I do intend to marry the mother in the nearest future, but I need to do a few things before that will happen, as we 'all' know once married everything either of us aquire is owned 50/50.

So my 1st objective will be to create a company, & as I can only own 49% of said company, the other 51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other (key point), this gives me control of the company, once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

I've been told that they are now looking into how companies are set up and that the Thai shareholders must show proof of their investment.This method was used years ago but I wouldn't recommend it now.

They look into everything these days so be warned!

[Jip66]

How old is the child?

As Thai law is that you are not the father of the child as you are not married, and if the child is under a certain age then

you must apply to be recognised by the courts as the father of the child, maybe they are tightening up these rules and

giving the Embassies the rules to follow word for word.

My boy will be 2yrs old in March

I agree that there are only two methods in which to 'aquire' fatherhood for a Thai child, the easiest is just to marry the childs mother, & the 2nd is to apply to the Family Court for a Judge to decide. To cut to the 'chase', I do intend to marry the mother in the nearest future, but I need to do a few things before that will happen, as we 'all' know once married everything either of us aquire is owned 50/50.

So my 1st objective will be to create a company, & as I can only own 49% of said company, the other 51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other (key point), this gives me control of the company, once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

I've been told that they are now looking into how companies are set up and that the Thai shareholders must show proof of their investment.This method was used years ago but I wouldn't recommend it now.

They look into everything these days so be warned!

Thanks for the 'heads up', as they say, forewarned is forearmed, I'l just have to make sure the 'appropiate paperwork' is all in order.

I would like to add, although I will only own 49% of this company, more than a combined 50% will be owned by my own direct blood family (lets just say my father was involved here )

[Equalizer]

How old is the child?

As Thai law is that you are not the father of the child as you are not married, and if the child is under a certain age then

you must apply to be recognised by the courts as the father of the child, maybe they are tightening up these rules and

giving the Embassies the rules to follow word for word.

My boy will be 2yrs old in March

I agree that there are only two methods in which to 'aquire' fatherhood for a Thai child, the easiest is just to marry the childs mother, & the 2nd is to apply to the Family Court for a Judge to decide. To cut to the 'chase', I do intend to marry the mother in the nearest future, but I need to do a few things before that will happen, as we 'all' know once married everything either of us aquire is owned 50/50.

So my 1st objective will be to create a company, & as I can only own 49% of said company, the other 51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other (key point), this gives me control of the company, once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

There are 2 high profile cases ongoing of Farang who did exactly the same and both got screwed via forged signatures and dodgy lawyers.

[Jip66]

How old is the child?

As Thai law is that you are not the father of the child as you are not married, and if the child is under a certain age then

you must apply to be recognised by the courts as the father of the child, maybe they are tightening up these rules and

giving the Embassies the rules to follow word for word.

My boy will be 2yrs old in March

I agree that there are only two methods in which to 'aquire' fatherhood for a Thai child, the easiest is just to marry the childs mother, & the 2nd is to apply to the Family Court for a Judge to decide. To cut to the 'chase', I do intend to marry the mother in the nearest future, but I need to do a few things before that will happen, as we 'all' know once married everything either of us aquire is owned 50/50.

So my 1st objective will be to create a company, & as I can only own 49% of said company, the other 51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other (key point), this gives me control of the company, once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

There are 2 high profile cases ongoing of Farang who did exactly the same and both got screwed via forged signatures and dodgy lawyers.

It is obvious from your reply that you didn't read the whole thread, so I will just repeat myself for your benefit

"I would like to add, although I will only own 49% of this company, more than a combined 50% will be owned by my own direct blood family (lets just say my father was involved here )"

And my Thai family are NOT some sort of low income lower class type, they already own a very well established company in Bangkok, and they would not want to see me being 'ripped off'

[connda]

Adopt your child and your status will change.

[NoshowJones]

How old is the child?

As Thai law is that you are not the father of the child as you are not married, and if the child is under a certain age then

you must apply to be recognised by the courts as the father of the child, maybe they are tightening up these rules and

giving the Embassies the rules to follow word for word.

My boy will be 2yrs old in March

I agree that there are only two methods in which to 'aquire' fatherhood for a Thai child, the easiest is just to marry the childs mother, & the 2nd is to apply to the Family Court for a Judge to decide. To cut to the 'chase', I do intend to marry the mother in the nearest future, but I need to do a few things before that will happen, as we 'all' know once married everything either of us aquire is owned 50/50.

So my 1st objective will be to create a company, & as I can only own 49% of said company, the other 51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other (key point), this gives me control of the company, once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

Always remember that you will be responsible for any debts that she might run up after you are married so just hiding your assets from her is not the complete answer

That's one of the reasons I refuse to keep a lot of money in Thailand, ie if my wife ran up 200.000 Bt in debts and someone came to me for it, they

could not get it as most of it is in my UK bank, there are also other reasons which is beyond your control that could have someone coming to you for money.

[NoshowJones]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/858277-the-phuket-property-nightmare/

a must watch/read for anyone thinking of getting married here and buying property ​

​

Whilst I can understand their problems and sympathise with them this seems to happen quite a lot in places like Phuket. I like both of those guys trusted my Thai wife and still do and she has given me no reason not to distrust her.

Having said all that I can't remember a year go by since I moved here full time in 2001 when something like this has never happened, despite warnings on Thai Visa and in the papers. I can't count the number of times that the warnings have been made that the "company route" to owning land and property is not safe and probably illegal.

What annoys me a bit about the programme with Jonathon Head is that there doesn't seem to be any balance in his report. He doesn't seem to have found anyone who has had no problems and is quite content with the way things have turned out in the longer term.

I knew before I finally moved to Thailand that whilst I could legally own a condo ( subject to the 49% rule) I would be unable to own any land or property unless I deposited a large amount of USD$ in the country.

Having learnt all that I came over and provided my wife with the money to buy the land next door to her plot and to build the house as well. I knew that and still know now that if it all goes tits up I will get no money back.

When I divorced my first wife in the UK I kept my pensions and she kept the house so I was no better off in the UK than I would be here.

When I divorced my wife back in Scotland, when the house was sold, my wife only got a token amount, and I got about 20 times as much as well as all the furniture, the car and what was in the bank. The case never even reached court because of circumstances I won't bother going into.

[Goldieinkathu]

If you think that "low income lower class type" as you put it are the only kind of people here who would rip you off then you are sadly mistaken. As for "family" I've known many families split over money.

It's difficult for people who post topics on TV to accept the knowledge of others , don't get upset with people, we are not the enemy, we're all just trying to give you good advice and help you to not make the same mistakes that some of us have made long before the internet was here to warn us!!

In an earlier post you said "51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other" - how can family members not know each other?

Anyway all the best with whatever you do, I just hope we're not reading your "I was ripped off" story in a few years time.

[stoneyboy]

Adopt your child and your status will change.

Why would you bother to do that.

Simply legitimise the child in a Thai family court.

I did this two years ago.

Cost 2000 baht.

3 visits to the lawyer and court.

[Kitsune]

How old is the child?

As Thai law is that you are not the father of the child as you are not married, and if the child is under a certain age then

you must apply to be recognised by the courts as the father of the child, maybe they are tightening up these rules and

giving the Embassies the rules to follow word for word.

My boy will be 2yrs old in March

I agree that there are only two methods in which to 'aquire' fatherhood for a Thai child, the easiest is just to marry the childs mother, & the 2nd is to apply to the Family Court for a Judge to decide. To cut to the 'chase', I do intend to marry the mother in the nearest future, but I need to do a few things before that will happen, as we 'all' know once married everything either of us aquire is owned 50/50.

So my 1st objective will be to create a company, & as I can only own 49% of said company, the other 51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other (key point), this gives me control of the company, once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

This is what John did.

Did not protect him from being defrauded.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/856992-defrauded-by-my-wife-and-criminals-in-thailand-bbc-special-report/

His wife faked his signature to take everything amounting to 1 million pounds

[MiKT]

Adopt your child and your status will change.

How does your status change? Please elaborate or point to relevent TV posts. Thanks.

[ubonjoe]

Adopt your child and your status will change.

How does your status change? Please elaborate or point to relevent TV posts. Thanks.

It is not possible to adopt you own child for one thing.

Perhaps he meant legitimizing his parenthood. See: How To Gain Parental Rights As A Father

That would make getting visas easier and allow a parent of a Thai to apply for an extension of stay.

[Jonmarleesco]

I got the self-same response two years ago, from Cardiff, whose staff had changed; though with a triple entry tourist visa on offer. But it is, of course, nonsense. The Thai consulates, certainly in the UK, seem to be autonomous when it comes to visa rules, but while the multi-entry has to be by way of a conversion at immigration - extra bunce, no doubt - the initial single entry is still available from other consulates.

[Jonmarleesco]

How old is the child?

As Thai law is that you are not the father of the child as you are not married, and if the child is under a certain age then

you must apply to be recognised by the courts as the father of the child, maybe they are tightening up these rules and

giving the Embassies the rules to follow word for word.

My boy will be 2yrs old in March

I agree that there are only two methods in which to 'aquire' fatherhood for a Thai child, the easiest is just to marry the childs mother, & the 2nd is to apply to the Family Court for a Judge to decide. To cut to the 'chase', I do intend to marry the mother in the nearest future, but I need to do a few things before that will happen, as we 'all' know once married everything either of us aquire is owned 50/50.

So my 1st objective will be to create a company, & as I can only own 49% of said company, the other 51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other (key point), this gives me control of the company, once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

You do know they have long tightened up on buying land through a 49:51 company structure?

[SGD]

...once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

No need to buy vehicles in company name. Easy in your alone.

As to assets, better to keep them out of LOS and unknown than to have them in LOS and try to hide or protect them.

If fatherhood is your only desire, then don't marry and just go through he courts. Far less complex than marrying and much easier to extract yourself from.

[LukKrueng]

How old is the child?

As Thai law is that you are not the father of the child as you are not married, and if the child is under a certain age then

you must apply to be recognised by the courts as the father of the child, maybe they are tightening up these rules and

giving the Embassies the rules to follow word for word.

My boy will be 2yrs old in March

I agree that there are only two methods in which to 'aquire' fatherhood for a Thai child, the easiest is just to marry the childs mother, & the 2nd is to apply to the Family Court for a Judge to decide. To cut to the 'chase', I do intend to marry the mother in the nearest future, but I need to do a few things before that will happen, as we 'all' know once married everything either of us aquire is owned 50/50.

So my 1st objective will be to create a company, & as I can only own 49% of said company, the other 51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other (key point), this gives me control of the company, once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

I am not 100% sure, but i think you have to be married to your sweetheart at the time she gives birth to your child in order to have equal parenting rights. Getting married 3 years later might not do it...

[Phuketboy]

How old is the child?

As Thai law is that you are not the father of the child as you are not married, and if the child is under a certain age then

you must apply to be recognised by the courts as the father of the child, maybe they are tightening up these rules and

giving the Embassies the rules to follow word for word.

My boy will be 2yrs old in March

I agree that there are only two methods in which to 'aquire' fatherhood for a Thai child, the easiest is just to marry the childs mother, & the 2nd is to apply to the Family Court for a Judge to decide. To cut to the 'chase', I do intend to marry the mother in the nearest future, but I need to do a few things before that will happen, as we 'all' know once married everything either of us aquire is owned 50/50.

So my 1st objective will be to create a company, & as I can only own 49% of said company, the other 51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other (key point), this gives me control of the company, once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

Find yourself a good Lawyer. When you open your company you are correct that you can only own 49% and the other 51% needs to be Thai. However, you don't need to go to the extremes of having 6 or 7 people who don't know each other that is ridiculous. You need 3 people to set up a Thai company. Simply have yourself and 2 Thai people, even if it is your girlfriend/wife and one other. Make sure your lawyer divides the shares so that you get the the preference shares (1 share = 1 vote) and they get the ordinary shares (10 shares = 1 vote). Even if they get together they cannot do anything because you will always win on votes. For example my company has 20000 shares which are divided up in the following way….. me 49%=9800, girlfriend 49%=9800 and her mother 2%=400. Because they need 10 shares per vote and I need 1 share per vote, even if my partner and her mother got together, they would only have 1020 votes against my 9800. This is a little loophole that still gives you full control over your company. Your lawyer, if any good would have told you this and would be advising you to set this up.

[4evermaat]

As far as I know it still is not a problem to get a single entry non-o [in Savannakhet].

A multiple entry is only possible if the entire family is present when the application is done to prove you are living together as a family (de facto marriage).

I was told only yesterday at the Thai Embassy in London that unmarried farang's are NO LONGER ENTITLED to obtain Non-Imm O Visa's in regard to having a dependant Thai child

Perhaps not from them. It does not mean it is worldwide. You will find every embassy will have their own policies.

As I wrote before I suspect they might still do them if you had legitimization documents to show.

UJ, what do you think I took to show them? This week's losing lottery ticket? I have ALL the 'legitimization documents to show', I have obtain THREE Non-Imm O Visa's previously from Vientien with the same documents I provided on Wednesday, but they were not good enough this time, they wanted to see a valid marrige certificate, nothing else mattered to them. They categorically told me Non-Imm O Visa's are NO LONGER AVAILABLE for unmarried farangs with Thai dependents, their words, not mine

Different Thai Embassys/consulates have different rules about what category and type of visa they will issue. Even if you technically qualify for a certain category, the consulate does not have to issue it.. It seems especially England Thai consulates have tightened up on the Non-immigrants visas, particularly multiple entries, over the past 3 years. Hull used to be the place to go, with excellent mail-in service. A lot of that has changed as you have experienced. You could reach some neighbor Thai consulates near the UK (particularly honorary consulates), see if they will issue.....

Or, if you can detour a bit, I recommend going to Penang, Malaysia and securing a single/multiple non-o for visiting thai family. Savanakhet, Laos will only do a single non-o if you are not married on paper, unless apparently you bring the child and Thai mother with you to prove you are a family.

Edit: not sure why so many people chiming in about Thai company/property ownership. Isn't this the visa section on non-o for visiting family?

Edited September 25, 2015 by 4evermaat

[slipperylobster]

I assume you are under 50

I turn 50 in January, so I will get this 2 month TR Visa extended for a further 30 days at Immigration, then get one more TR Visa after that before applying for a 12 month Retirement Visa

Where.will you apply for the "Retirement Visa" ?

Retirement visa? or one year extension on a non immigrant visa.. ??

[fitnesspm]

How old is the child?

As Thai law is that you are not the father of the child as you are not married, and if the child is under a certain age then

you must apply to be recognised by the courts as the father of the child, maybe they are tightening up these rules and

giving the Embassies the rules to follow word for word.

My boy will be 2yrs old in March

I agree that there are only two methods in which to 'aquire' fatherhood for a Thai child, the easiest is just to marry the childs mother, & the 2nd is to apply to the Family Court for a Judge to decide. To cut to the 'chase', I do intend to marry the mother in the nearest future, but I need to do a few things before that will happen, as we 'all' know once married everything either of us aquire is owned 50/50.

So my 1st objective will be to create a company, & as I can only own 49% of said company, the other 51% will be divided up between 6-7 different Thai's that DON'T know each other (key point), this gives me control of the company, once created the 'company' will buy land & some vehical's in the company name.

With these objectives obtained I am more than willing to marry my sweetheart, & thus gain fatherhood for my son

What a wonderful, trusting way to start a marriage. Hiding all of your assets from her because in the back of your mind you don't trust her. I wonder where does this lack of trust stem from? Is it because of where and how you met? Or perhaps the simple fact that she is Thai means you don't trust her? In which case you may need to come to terms with your own inherent views on race...Why would you marry a woman you don't trust? Sorry, for being harsh but it is what it is!

It comes from the West where we know that half of marriages fail within the first 5 years! We also know Thais usually favour other Thais so its important to cover your ass and assets!

[timsims]

i find this very hard to believe i got a o visa three days ago because i have two kids
in thailand i am not married to my partner i think his paper work was incorrect or incomplete

[Jip66]

i find this very hard to believe i got a o visa three days ago because i have two kids

in thailand i am not married to my partner i think his paper work was incorrect or incomplete

My paperwork is NOT incorrect, it is the very same paperwork I have used on THREE previous occassions to get a Non-Imm O Visa in Vientiene, i.e. childs birth certificate, copy of mothers ID card, copies of house book enteries for both mother & child, as well as a copy of my current passport. They were not even interested in looking at my paperwork, just asked if I had a marriage certificate.

Where did you get yours, & were the mother & children with you?

Edited September 25, 2015 by Jip66

[thai006]

i find this very hard to believe i got a o visa three days ago because i have two kids

in thailand i am not married to my partner i think his paper work was incorrect or incomplete

My paperwork is NOT incorrect, it is the very same paperwork I have used on THREE previous occassions to get a Non-Imm O Visa in Vientiene, i.e. childs birth certificate, copy of mothers ID card, copies of house book enteries for both mother & child, as well as a copy of my current passport. They were not even interested in looking at my paperwork, just asked if I had a marriage certificate.

Where did you get yours, & were the mother & children with you?

me i do in monaco and all time smooth as silk

[timsims]

just got it here in New Zealand my children are NZ citizens also something is not right

if i was you email head office in the UK and ask what's going on could be someone having a bad day

paper work i give

copy's partners of passport ID card house book

bank statements showing money given to her when i am not in Thailand

power bill showing address in Thailand

fill itinerary what i am doing in Thailand

children birth certificate and passports both Thai and [ Eng transacted ] and NZ citizens Documents

copy bank statement show money in my account