UK settlement refusal

[Pete Beale]

My Wife has had her settlement visa refused, I want to appeal it but not too sure how I go about it. I am in the UK and am hoping I can do the appeal from here as the refusal is all to do with my self employment documentation which I can hopefully provide in the appeal. From what I've read it seems you can appeal by post for £80 or by personal hearing for £140, would I be better to have a personal hearing ? don't care much about the price difference at this point.

I'll have a look through the appeal notes but any practical information as to how I go about an appeal will be gratefully accepted. I've attached the relevant pages of the refusal letter stating where criteria was not met and what documents are needed.

[makescents]

Are you going to be able to get the documents they've requested? My thoughts are that there's no point appealing unless you can come up with more evidence.

[Pete Beale]

Hopefully my Accountant will be able to tell me what documentation will cover what they want and provide them or tell me how to get them if I've not already got it.

[wooloomooloo]

What does your accountant know about settlement visas? There's a big list of reasons to refuse and it's all down to the dearth of documentation that you've failed to provide.

Forget about your accountant. Provide the evidence required and your wife could well get a result with a review.

If you really don't know what you're doing then employ the services of an OISC registered immigration advisor. You did state money isn't a problem at present.

[beano2274]

Lots of documents missing, address this and try again.

[lanng khao]

Are all your national insurance contributions up to date. ?if not don't bother or pay any back amounts owed.

[Pete Beale]

What does your accountant know about settlement visas? There's a big list of reasons to refuse and it's all down to the dearth of documentation that you've failed to provide.

Forget about your accountant. Provide the evidence required and your wife could well get a result with a review.

If you really don't know what you're doing then employ the services of an OISC registered immigration advisor. You did state money isn't a problem at present.

My Accountant probably knows nothing about settlement visas, but I'd imagine he does know about tax returns and NI contributions and what documentation I could use as evidence that all is up to date, some of which would probably need to come from him.

[Pete Beale]

Are all your national insurance contributions up to date. ?if not don't bother or pay any back amounts owed.

Yes they are, they've been set up to be paid by direct debit. The payments would be on my bank statements that were submitted, not sure what other evidence I could provide.

[lanng khao]

Have you thought of using a visa agent, they will make sure all you paper work is in order before they submit your application, if they don't get the visa you don't pay them,apart from a initial 5000 baht retainer .

[PeeJay1959]

Supply all the missing documents, the ECO has listed all you need, I know it is a big financial blow, but a fresh application with all they require is likely to be much quicker and in many ways less hassle than an appeal

Pete and Tia

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Can I ask, did you submit the application as a sole trader or as a director of your own company ? I ask because the ECO has refused the application on the grounds that you have not supplied the required documents for a sole trader, yet he has stated that you have submitted accounts for the year 23/9/13 - 30/9/14 ( and he has stated that these meet the requirements). If you are a sole trader, then your tax year is the normal financial tax year ( April - March). The fact that you have supplied ( and the ECO has accepted) accounts for what looks like a company tax year, it seems like you might be applying as a director of your own company ? If that is so, then I don't see why the ECO is treating you as a sole trader ? Conversely, if he is treating you as sole trader, then why has he accepted accounts for a non-financial tax year ?

Tony M

[abrahamzvi]

A very simple question that I have to ask is, what happens to somebody who does not earn enough according to the Immigration regulations. Are poor people not entitled to a family life, a right which is enshrined in the Human Rights Convention? May I emphasise that fortunately, I am not affected by such inhuman regulations!

[MRGTINGTONG]

If every thing you say and is genuine and you provide the correct documentation, then there won't be a problem.

I did the same application in 2007 provided every thing that was required, got the visa/cert no problem. It is a long winded process and makes you wonder some times but worth it in the end. Good luck mate, all the best.

[theoldgit]

Nonsense post removed as well as one giving misleading advice.

[G p]

Ha mate bin there with my wife still not got visa if your paper work is not 100 per cent she will not get visa it will take three to four month for your dates to come throu I took my account with me and cost me1200 pounds for the day I wish I done it different now there is a team off immgration soc in Manchester you can get the num off google if you accounts don't show 18600 net and aney repairs from your business will not be included in your 18600 I am going back to holiday visa good luck

[cadle1]

My Thai wife came to uk 2 months ago on spousal visa, it was not a easy process, they refused her they did not believe the relationship. The fact they have offered a appeal to you is good news many do not have this right. I paid £80 for paper nearing. My lawyer sent a angry letter they after many months did not have the fight to go to court in Leicester so they agreed.... I know how you feel but the income threshold is £18600 or £62500 in the bank for 6 months you must also prove where this money come from.....Hire a good lawyer this is my advice to you ..

[StevieDee]

Don't bother appealing, eating 'humble pie' is not on their agenda, been there, done it. Just wait 6 or better still 12 months and re-apply with new up to date docs

[Pete Beale]

Can I ask, did you submit the application as a sole trader or as a director of your own company ? I ask because the ECO has refused the application on the grounds that you have not supplied the required documents for a sole trader, yet he has stated that you have submitted accounts for the year 23/9/13 - 30/9/14 ( and he has stated that these meet the requirements). If you are a sole trader, then your tax year is the normal financial tax year ( April - March). The fact that you have supplied ( and the ECO has accepted) accounts for what looks like a company tax year, it seems like you might be applying as a director of your own company ? If that is so, then I don't see why the ECO is treating you as a sole trader ? Conversely, if he is treating you as sole trader, then why has he accepted accounts for a non-financial tax year ?

Tony M

I applied as a sole trader. I started my current self-employment in September 2013 and my tax year since then ends 30th September. I read in the application notes that for purposes of visa application the tax year is April - March, so my Accountant got me a SA302 which says how much I earned in the standard April - March tax year. Not sure how they come to the figure, maybe an average from what I earned October - September. I also submitted a statement of earnings from my Accountant for my tax year September 2013 - 2014, but as I was under the impression they are interested in April - March I didn't include my bank statements previous to April 2014 and seems they want to see these from the notes on section (f) of the refusal letter.

They also say in section (f) "Whilst the statements show your sponsor receiving deposits, there are no supporting documents to demonstrate this is your sponsors income" I'm not really sure what supporting documents I could provide, I'm a black cab driver and all my fares are cash, I receive it and bank it at the end of the week.

[tuanku]

When my wife was refused a visa because I did not supply enough/the right evidence, I went through the written appeal process and it was OK second time. If you have what they need and they have told you exactly what that is, then supply it for the appeal and you should be good. I also got my MP to write a letter of support which he was willing to do. Don't know if that helped but it made me feel good.

Incidentally the first time I went through this process, I got a job in Portugal first, Brought my wife there on a Schengen visa via the Portuguese embassy. That was a relatively easy process at the time (late 90s) After a year in Portugal the family moved to UK and the residence visa was automatic and free of charge. There are some advantages to living in the EU. So if you have lived and worked in any EU country - and many of them have easier visa application processes - you have an automatic right to take up residence in UK with your dependents regardless of their nationality. At least that is my understanding.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Can I ask, did you submit the application as a sole trader or as a director of your own company ? I ask because the ECO has refused the application on the grounds that you have not supplied the required documents for a sole trader, yet he has stated that you have submitted accounts for the year 23/9/13 - 30/9/14 ( and he has stated that these meet the requirements). If you are a sole trader, then your tax year is the normal financial tax year ( April - March). The fact that you have supplied ( and the ECO has accepted) accounts for what looks like a company tax year, it seems like you might be applying as a director of your own company ? If that is so, then I don't see why the ECO is treating you as a sole trader ? Conversely, if he is treating you as sole trader, then why has he accepted accounts for a non-financial tax year ?

Tony M

I applied as a sole trader. I started my current self-employment in September 2013 and my tax year since then ends 30th September. I read in the application notes that for purposes of visa application the tax year is April - March, so my Accountant got me a SA302 which says how much I earned in the standard April - March tax year. Not sure how they come to the figure, maybe an average from what I earned October - September. I also submitted a statement of earnings from my Accountant for my tax year September 2013 - 2014, but as I was under the impression they are interested in April - March I didn't include my bank statements previous to April 2014 and seems they want to see these from the notes on section (f) of the refusal letter.

They also say in section (f) "Whilst the statements show your sponsor receiving deposits, there are no supporting documents to demonstrate this is your sponsors income" I'm not really sure what supporting documents I could provide, I'm a black cab driver and all my fares are cash, I receive it and bank it at the end of the week.

I'm not sure how that can be. The requirements state :

9.3.1. For those self-employed as a sole trader, as a partner or in a franchise, the relevant financial year(s) will be that covered by the self-assessment tax return and in the UK this runs from 6 April to 5 April the following year.

But they do also state (which seems to possibly contradict, but I think it may actually refer to "deadlines" rather than the relevant period of the financial year) :

9.3.3. The evidence submitted must cover the relevant financial year(s) most recently ended. A self-assessment tax return may include provisional figures, where the return explains why this is so and how the figures were arrived at, and in which case a covering letter explaining this and how any provisional figures tie in with other material submitted, e.g. audited or unaudited accounts, may be helpful. This means that a sponsor wishing to rely on earnings from self-employment as a sole trader, as a partner or in a franchise will need to arrange to file their self assessment tax return to HMRC on a timescale geared to meeting this requirement of the Immigration Rules rather than the deadline set for UK tax purposes.

For the purposes of the requirements, we have always used the UK financial tax year for sponsors who are sole traders. It seems that the wording of the immigration rules requires this, as the rules require all documentation to be for the same period as the self-assessment tax return, and to again quote from the above, that is "from 6 April to 5 April the following year". If that is so, then I don't see how the ECO can accept your accounts for a different period to your tax return. But, you don't have a tax return or, at least, it wasn't submitted ?

I do remember informing you in a earlier post that you would need to provide evidence of your income, even though it is cash. It is your responsibility to prove your income, or at least convince the ECO that what you claim is actually true. I informed you that you should provide evidence of your cash drawings, as that is what accountants usually work from when doing your tax return and accounts. Otherwise, it seems that you are asking the ECO to believe that your income is what you claim, and that is not how they work. They require evidence. You were also given the complete list of required evidence, by bobrussell, so your accountant should have been aware of what was needed.

Tony M

Tony M

[7by7]

Apologies if I'm wrong, but it seems that you ignored the advice of Tony M and others in favour of that from your accountant!

My advice to you now, for what it's worth, is get a grade 3 OISC advisor or a specialist immigration solicitor to advise you on the appeal rather than relying on your accountant again.

[laislica]

A very simple question that I have to ask is, what happens to somebody who does not earn enough according to the Immigration regulations. Are poor people not entitled to a family life, a right which is enshrined in the Human Rights Convention? May I emphasise that fortunately, I am not affected by such inhuman regulations!

Should poor people be given the right to live wherever they want and have the tax payers fund their existence?

Stand by for the next tsunami of poor people leaving and heading to Europe, claiming their rights to a family life with the current tsunami.

Just about every country on the planet has regulations ensuring that immigrants are not simply looking for a handout, and will, indeed, actually benefit the State.

In the past things were much easier and the privilege was widely abused. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

I am confused by your post.

The OP does not appear to be trying to get a poor African or Middle Eastern person into the UK.

He appears to want his legal wife to join him but has not provided sufficient proof for her support or not provided it in a way that Immigration require.

As 7 x 7 once told me, it is not the job of the Immigration officers to do any work to gain additional information regarding a visa application. It is up to the applicant to supply everything required and in the required form.

IMO, the refusal may stem from the OP having a view that it would be his right to have his wife live with him and the visa application was just a formality?

That was the case for me when our holiday visit visa was refused.

(My wife wass a resident of Spain but at the time of our applicaion she had only been in Spain for about 4 or 5 months and part of the refusañ was because they felt she was not sufficiently attached to Spain.

I retired in 2000 and lived full time in Spain since 2004 and have property here)

However, from the many threads on TVF, it is totally clear that all applications must be 100% in the required form with all required info supplied.

Personally, I like the idea of using an agent, expensive but apparently a better success rate than personal applications - well, you are paying for their expertise.

I have also read on TVF that when you make a correct application it will be accepted and save the cost of an agent. The problem for me was trying to understand what the requirements were.....

Poster tuanku made the point that entry via another EU country might be a better possibility but he refers to the late 90's and there have been many changes to Imm law since then.

So best of luck with either the appeal or re-application.

At least this thread has provided you with some valuable insights.

[stereolab]

Lots of documents missing, address this and try again.

f

As Beano says, you need to get all your ducks in a line, all the reject items are easily fixed. Give your Accountant a good kicking at the same time, he gets paid to get your affairs in order, and you need to ensure self assessment returns are filed. No point in appealing until you supply the said information.

[theoldgit]

Let's get back to the original question please.

[Gringogazzer]

It clearly states that if you provide the documents that were required for self employment it might be possible to resolve without an appeal hearing.

The documents you need are not that hard to acquire, just take it out of the accountants hands, do it yourself.

Apply for online self assessment, you can print out your return. You can also request a statement of NI contributions. Provide UTR & bank statements for appropriate year. Not sure if missed something.

Submit with appeal form.

Even an agency would require you to get these documents yourself.

Good luck with it.

[kennypowers]

A very simple question that I have to ask is, what happens to somebody who does not earn enough according to the Immigration regulations. Are poor people not entitled to a family life, a right which is enshrined in the Human Rights Convention? May I emphasise that fortunately, I am not affected by such inhuman regulations!

Yes, you are absolutely correct. This financial prejudice is in breach of the laws set out in Article 14 of the Human Rights Convention. This is something that UK lawyers have been challenging through the courts for some time, and something the European court is at loggerheads with the UK over. Because of this, many settlement visas have been on hold for more than 2 years, pending a review of the current UK law.

[yardrunner]

had slightly different problem in 2011 before I moved to Thailand, my wife and stepdaughter (over 21) were due to come to the UK to visit to meet my family, my stepdaughter needed to come to accompany my wife who had never flown and this was explained in a letter with the Visa application, result my wife's visa was approved and my stepdaughters was rejected so I contacted my MP and heard nothing for 8 weeks and then the UK embassy in Bangkok contacted my stepdaughter to have the visa put in her passport.

Perhaps you could get the extra information required and also contact your MP

[sandyf]

I applied as a sole trader. I started my current self-employment in September 2013 and my tax year since then ends 30th September.

Have things altered. I was a sole trader twice, 97 to 2003 and then again 2005 to 2009. I both cases my tax year was in line with the financial year. The very first tax year was only a couple of months, second time about 9 months.

[abrahamzvi]

A very simple question that I have to ask is, what happens to somebody who does not earn enough according to the Immigration regulations. Are poor people not entitled to a family life, a right which is enshrined in the Human Rights Convention? May I emphasise that fortunately, I am not affected by such inhuman regulations!

Yes, you are absolutely correct. This financial prejudice is in breach of the laws set out in Article 14 of the Human Rights Convention. This is something that UK lawyers have been challenging through the courts for some time, and something the European court is at loggerheads with the UK over. Because of this, many settlement visas have been on hold for more than 2 years, pending a review of the current UK law.

Unfortunately the UK is not the only EU countryn trying to impose such inhuman laws/regulations. Admittedly none are as strict and unflexible as the UK, but some are trying.....

[Gringogazzer]

I applied as a sole trader. I started my current self-employment in September 2013 and my tax year since then ends 30th September.

Have things altered. I was a sole trader twice, 97 to 2003 and then again 2005 to 2009. I both cases my tax year was in line with the financial year. The very first tax year was only a couple of months, second time about 9 months.

Spot on.

The £18,600 requirement is between 6th April to following 5th April. Regardless of when you started trading. Or you can average it over 2 tax years.