"not to lump everyone together who has a weight problem"

[h90]

I have never disputed the fact that individual metabolic rates are variable, one person burns calories faster or slower than another. But that doesn't change the basic premise of calories in vs calories burned and I think it's down to the individual to determine their own burn rate and adjust accordingly.

Ok I agree with that, but herein we see the struggle. It is difficult to be consistent with a lifetime of smaller than average portions. Not so easy to leave food on the plate when you really have room for more. Not so easy to always decline offers to eat more when with friends, not so easy to always be a little hungry and know it isn't going to change. Now if a person is eating large portions or snacking a lot, or doubling down on the high GI foods, than I have no sympathy. It's the guys that try and have to keep on trying, that need a break from the smug pricks who couldn't gain weight if they ate a bucket of rocks.

So if there are any advances to help a guy out, I want to hear about it.

No it is not that bad....Partially you get used to the smaller dishes . It is no problem to eat sometimes more with friends. The over all amount must be right. Eat high protein high fat and there won't be much hunger. It is not easy but it isn't a nightmare as well.

[robblok]

I have never disputed the fact that individual metabolic rates are variable, one person burns calories faster or slower than another. But that doesn't change the basic premise of calories in vs calories burned and I think it's down to the individual to determine their own burn rate and adjust accordingly.

Ok I agree with that, but herein we see the struggle. It is difficult to be consistent with a lifetime of smaller than average portions. Not so easy to leave food on the plate when you really have room for more. Not so easy to always decline offers to eat more when with friends, not so easy to always be a little hungry and know it isn't going to change. Now if a person is eating large portions or snacking a lot, or doubling down on the high GI foods, than I have no sympathy. It's the guys that try and have to keep on trying, that need a break from the smug pricks who couldn't gain weight if they ate a bucket of rocks.

So if there are any advances to help a guy out, I want to hear about it.

No it is not that bad....Partially you get used to the smaller dishes . It is no problem to eat sometimes more with friends. The over all amount must be right. Eat high protein high fat and there won't be much hunger. It is not easy but it isn't a nightmare as well.

Not completely true, i can tell you from experience, if it was that easy. For instance you talking about you having a decreased hunger now. I never have that I can always eat.

[robblok]

I have never disputed the fact that individual metabolic rates are variable, one person burns calories faster or slower than another. But that doesn't change the basic premise of calories in vs calories burned and I think it's down to the individual to determine their own burn rate and adjust accordingly.

Ok I agree with that, but herein we see the struggle. It is difficult to be consistent with a lifetime of smaller than average portions. Not so easy to leave food on the plate when you really have room for more. Not so easy to always decline offers to eat more when with friends, not so easy to always be a little hungry and know it isn't going to change. Now if a person is eating large portions or snacking a lot, or doubling down on the high GI foods, than I have no sympathy. It's the guys that try and have to keep on trying, that need a break from the smug pricks who couldn't gain weight if they ate a bucket of rocks.

So if there are any advances to help a guy out, I want to hear about it.

I know its annoying and I am in the same boat. It is hard but not impossible, actually there are drugs that help however they are not super safe. I have tried sibutramine (many people can handle it not everyone but because some people had bad reactions to it it was taken out of the market but can be gotten here). I sometimes take it when I go on a holiday because then I am out of my normal pattern and its easy to overeat if you are eating at restaurants all the time.

It helps, but for me the side effect is that i sleep worse (I hate that) so I dislike using it and almost never do. I would never tell others to use it without making a personal risk assessment. One other that helps is pseudo ephedrine (bodybuilders use it in the stack ECA) however it will be hard to get as its illegal here as you can make meth out of it (if your a good chemist).

JT is using garcenia cambogia and that is a legal and safe drug (did not work for me but did for others) easy and cheap to get in Thailand.

What does help (if you can cook for yourself) is adding protein to foods and eating stuff like apples (they do fill you up and are relatively low calories) Salads help too and are in my opinion a good way to replace a meal. If you make a big salad with egg or maybe some tuna you can use as much salad but just not too many salad dressing unless you use stuff like balsamic vinegar or the black sauce (soy derivative) they have at sizzler.

Personally I would go the way of replacing meals with salad and eating apples instead of pills however its a personal choice. You wanted choices I told you what i know.

Edited October 26, 2015 by robblok

[MaeJoMTB]

I have never disputed the fact that individual metabolic rates are variable, one person burns calories faster or slower than another. But that doesn't change the basic premise of calories in vs calories burned and I think it's down to the individual to determine their own burn rate and adjust accordingly.

Ok I agree with that, but herein we see the struggle. It is difficult to be consistent with a lifetime of smaller than average portions. Not so easy to leave food on the plate when you really have room for more. Not so easy to always decline offers to eat more when with friends, not so easy to always be a little hungry and know it isn't going to change. Now if a person is eating large portions or snacking a lot, or doubling down on the high GI foods, than I have no sympathy. It's the guys that try and have to keep on trying, that need a break from the smug pricks who couldn't gain weight if they ate a bucket of rocks.

So if there are any advances to help a guy out, I want to hear about it.

I don't eat less,

1,000Kcal cycle ride up the mountain to Wat Doi Suthep every other morning, without any food after waking.

Then no fizzy or bottled drinks at all.

All I gain is muscle.

From fat at 40 to great shape at 60.

Edited October 26, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[h90]

I have never disputed the fact that individual metabolic rates are variable, one person burns calories faster or slower than another. But that doesn't change the basic premise of calories in vs calories burned and I think it's down to the individual to determine their own burn rate and adjust accordingly.

Ok I agree with that, but herein we see the struggle. It is difficult to be consistent with a lifetime of smaller than average portions. Not so easy to leave food on the plate when you really have room for more. Not so easy to always decline offers to eat more when with friends, not so easy to always be a little hungry and know it isn't going to change. Now if a person is eating large portions or snacking a lot, or doubling down on the high GI foods, than I have no sympathy. It's the guys that try and have to keep on trying, that need a break from the smug pricks who couldn't gain weight if they ate a bucket of rocks.

So if there are any advances to help a guy out, I want to hear about it.

No it is not that bad....Partially you get used to the smaller dishes . It is no problem to eat sometimes more with friends. The over all amount must be right. Eat high protein high fat and there won't be much hunger. It is not easy but it isn't a nightmare as well.

Not completely true, i can tell you from experience, if it was that easy. For instance you talking about you having a decreased hunger now. I never have that I can always eat.

yes I have that when I try to gain weight, by eating much more than I should, but at a very clean diet. I think if you only eat dry chicken meat and salad within 1 week everyone will have decreased hunger...And I gained 5 kg.

You told once that very low /no carb diet the hunger went away....slower than for me, but still.

[robblok]

I have never disputed the fact that individual metabolic rates are variable, one person burns calories faster or slower than another. But that doesn't change the basic premise of calories in vs calories burned and I think it's down to the individual to determine their own burn rate and adjust accordingly.

Ok I agree with that, but herein we see the struggle. It is difficult to be consistent with a lifetime of smaller than average portions. Not so easy to leave food on the plate when you really have room for more. Not so easy to always decline offers to eat more when with friends, not so easy to always be a little hungry and know it isn't going to change. Now if a person is eating large portions or snacking a lot, or doubling down on the high GI foods, than I have no sympathy. It's the guys that try and have to keep on trying, that need a break from the smug pricks who couldn't gain weight if they ate a bucket of rocks.

So if there are any advances to help a guy out, I want to hear about it.

I don't eat less,

1,000Kcal cycle ride up the mountain to Wat Doi Suthep every other morning, without any food after waking.

Then no fizzy or bottled drinks at all.

All I gain is muscle.

From fat at 40 to great shape at 60.

This is a great strategy for burning fat as it is said when you wake up you have burned through all your energy and by going to exercise at that point you will burn mainly fat. Its called training in a fasted state. Its not for everyone though.

Also there is some debate on it

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-myth-of-cardio-before-breakfast-debunked.html

I have tried it but I prefer to train when I have some energy. For me going the rower straight out of bed is almost impossible it drives me crazy.

[MaeJoMTB]

This is a great strategy for burning fat as it is said when you wake up you have burned through all your energy and by going to exercise at that point you will burn mainly fat. Its called training in a fasted state. Its not for everyone though.

Also there is some debate on it

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-myth-of-cardio-before-breakfast-debunked.html

I have tried it but I prefer to train when I have some energy. For me going the rower straight out of bed is almost impossible it drives me crazy.

Interesting link,

I actually exercise at 95%-110% of my maximum heart rate for 50mins during my cycle ride.

(MHR = 220 - age =160)

They mutter on about hitting a wall quick if you fast, but I can't see me exceeding my MHR by more if I were to eat first.

Edited October 26, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[robblok]

This is a great strategy for burning fat as it is said when you wake up you have burned through all your energy and by going to exercise at that point you will burn mainly fat. Its called training in a fasted state. Its not for everyone though.

Also there is some debate on it

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-myth-of-cardio-before-breakfast-debunked.html

I have tried it but I prefer to train when I have some energy. For me going the rower straight out of bed is almost impossible it drives me crazy.

Interesting link,

I actually exercise at 95%-110% of my maximum heart rate for 50mins during my cycle ride.

(MHR = 220 - 60 (age) =160)

2015-09-25 02.43.47.png

I like all the science about fat burning and muscle building and I read tons of it a real good site is from lyle mcdonald

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/index.php

he has written a few books (on fat burning not really only about muscle building) and he backs his stuff up with science. I like it.

Your working out quite intense not sure if you really do burn a 1000 calories as most prediction models are made to make people feel good. But with that time and intensity you certainly burn a lot. Plus its real good for your health to exercise. I must say well done for doing it so intense.

I guess you must like the mountain biking too.. as the best exercise is exercise you like (or at least not hate there are always days we don't want too). Good work keep it up, i too transformed from fat to lean. Took a lot of doing but was mainly changing my diet as I always exercised a lot just had build up bad habits over a period (alcohol and crap food). I did not even want to be on pictures at one point that was how much I hated being overweight.

[h90]

This is a great strategy for burning fat as it is said when you wake up you have burned through all your energy and by going to exercise at that point you will burn mainly fat. Its called training in a fasted state. Its not for everyone though.

Also there is some debate on it

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-myth-of-cardio-before-breakfast-debunked.html

I have tried it but I prefer to train when I have some energy. For me going the rower straight out of bed is almost impossible it drives me crazy.

Interesting link,

I actually exercise at 95%-110% of my maximum heart rate for 50mins during my cycle ride.

(MHR = 220 - age =160)

2015-09-25 02.43.47.png

They mutter on about hitting a wall quick if you fast, but I can't see me exceeding my MHR by more if I were to eat first.

than your max. heart is higher. The calculation with age is just a very rough estimation. My max is way lower than the calculated....yours is obviously higher.

If we take the average of both of us it fits.

[h90]

I have never disputed the fact that individual metabolic rates are variable, one person burns calories faster or slower than another. But that doesn't change the basic premise of calories in vs calories burned and I think it's down to the individual to determine their own burn rate and adjust accordingly.

Ok I agree with that, but herein we see the struggle. It is difficult to be consistent with a lifetime of smaller than average portions. Not so easy to leave food on the plate when you really have room for more. Not so easy to always decline offers to eat more when with friends, not so easy to always be a little hungry and know it isn't going to change. Now if a person is eating large portions or snacking a lot, or doubling down on the high GI foods, than I have no sympathy. It's the guys that try and have to keep on trying, that need a break from the smug pricks who couldn't gain weight if they ate a bucket of rocks.

So if there are any advances to help a guy out, I want to hear about it.

I don't eat less,

1,000Kcal cycle ride up the mountain to Wat Doi Suthep every other morning, without any food after waking.

Then no fizzy or bottled drinks at all.

All I gain is muscle.

From fat at 40 to great shape at 60.

This is a great strategy for burning fat as it is said when you wake up you have burned through all your energy and by going to exercise at that point you will burn mainly fat. Its called training in a fasted state. Its not for everyone though.

Also there is some debate on it

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-myth-of-cardio-before-breakfast-debunked.html

I have tried it but I prefer to train when I have some energy. For me going the rower straight out of bed is almost impossible it drives me crazy.

Doing endurance (not 50 min full speed) is for me less a problem when "empty" than doing something heavy. When I am on the bike, I do rpm of about 100. Bringing all the power over the rpm and not over the torque (so I kicked like 48000 times in a 4 hour ride). That might be more fat consuming than doing the rower hard 50 min.

Out of the bed I do only at heart rate 110-125 on the bike in Bangkok, but drinking coffee, reading the newspaper, listen to radio. That is more to get my blood moving than some exercise.

[chiang mai]

I have never disputed the fact that individual metabolic rates are variable, one person burns calories faster or slower than another. But that doesn't change the basic premise of calories in vs calories burned and I think it's down to the individual to determine their own burn rate and adjust accordingly.

Ok I agree with that, but herein we see the struggle. It is difficult to be consistent with a lifetime of smaller than average portions. Not so easy to leave food on the plate when you really have room for more. Not so easy to always decline offers to eat more when with friends, not so easy to always be a little hungry and know it isn't going to change. Now if a person is eating large portions or snacking a lot, or doubling down on the high GI foods, than I have no sympathy. It's the guys that try and have to keep on trying, that need a break from the smug pricks who couldn't gain weight if they ate a bucket of rocks.

So if there are any advances to help a guy out, I want to hear about it.

I think that if everyone was completely honest, most (over age 45) would admit to having had weight related problems at some point in their lives, either under or overweight, minor marginal or significant. The difference between us all is the steps we take to deal with the problem, willpower & discipline seem to be the core issue for most that determine success or failure and I don't think looking for new answers to an age old problem is a defensible argument. Having said those things, I wish all who need it, much luck.

[mommysboy]

Some truly interesting postings.

But sorry to be a party pooper as far as I can tell metabolism does not slow down with age, nor when we diet, and is not an explanation as to why we put on weight or have difficulty losing it.

However, I 100% agree that we tend to put on weight as we age, some in their 20's others much later.

There must be another reason, possibly mild thyroid issues, possibly increased glucose resistance leading to fat gain, possibly just a general degradation of our body and the way it functions, or just plain behavioural, eg, not having mum or dad telling us what to do anymore and no longer being prompted by memory or good sense.

I do think that once we have got used to gorging ourselves for a period of time it is very difficult to revert back to normal rations. And this is likely the physical crux of the matter. But I also agree with some posters who write science is not everything. When I am depressed for instance I tend to stop eating, but the bloke across the road could just as easily start eating more. Emotions, spirit, and culture all play their part.

[MaeJoMTB]

I guess you must like the mountain biking too..

Slightly off topic,

Given mountain biking the flic, way too dangerous, too many falls, and injuries in the jungle on your own not worthwhile.

Now got a road racer, and just racing the other 200 participants up the hill on nice smooth tarmac.

It's great to overtake all the Thais, they don't seem to have the muscle power of us white foreigners.

What keeps me going,

The guy 100m in front of me, I just gotta pass him, then the next one, then the ten all wearing the same shirts.

Competition is fierce.

Edited October 26, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[chiang mai]

Perhaps best to define "metabolism", here's one definition:

"Metabolism: The whole range of biochemical processes that occur within a living organism. Metabolism consists of anabolism (the buildup of substances) and catabolism (the breakdown of substances). The term metabolism is commonly used to refer specifically to the breakdown of food and its transformation into energy". http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4359

.....and I do think that thyroid and liver functions are a part of the above hence blood sugar management is a part also.

Given the above is true, those functions do deteriorate with age, unquestionably.

[mommysboy]

Perhaps best to define "metabolism", here's one definition:

"Metabolism: The whole range of biochemical processes that occur within a living organism. Metabolism consists of anabolism (the buildup of substances) and catabolism (the breakdown of substances). The term metabolism is commonly used to refer specifically to the breakdown of food and its transformation into energy". http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4359

.....and I do think that thyroid and liver functions are a part of the above hence blood sugar management is a part also.

Given the above is true, those functions do deteriorate with age, unquestionably.

Yes absolutely I see this.

I was understanding it as metabolic rate perhaps, a bit like the tick over on a car, the rate at which fuel is converted to energy, this is the bit which is pretty much constant regardless of age or diet.

It's important because there are a few myths about metabolic rate which lead people to believe that their body is in some way different.

But taken at face value the statement "I have slow metabolism" could perhaps be more accurately stated as "I have insulin resistance". Bit simplistic I know it could also be poor digestion in general.

[robblok]

Perhaps best to define "metabolism", here's one definition:

"Metabolism: The whole range of biochemical processes that occur within a living organism. Metabolism consists of anabolism (the buildup of substances) and catabolism (the breakdown of substances). The term metabolism is commonly used to refer specifically to the breakdown of food and its transformation into energy". http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4359

.....and I do think that thyroid and liver functions are a part of the above hence blood sugar management is a part also.

Given the above is true, those functions do deteriorate with age, unquestionably.

In general muscle mass decreases because your testosterone levels decrease that means a lower metabolic rate, also because you GH output decreases its harder to burn fat. There are many processes that go a bit slower but there are ways around this. Still its hard to do. I never noticed much extra burn from the extra muscle I gained. I am now more muscular as a few years ago but can't say i really notice a difference. But it is said that muscle burns energy (more so as fat fat does burn a little energy too)

[mommysboy]

Perhaps best to define "metabolism", here's one definition:

"Metabolism: The whole range of biochemical processes that occur within a living organism. Metabolism consists of anabolism (the buildup of substances) and catabolism (the breakdown of substances). The term metabolism is commonly used to refer specifically to the breakdown of food and its transformation into energy". http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4359

.....and I do think that thyroid and liver functions are a part of the above hence blood sugar management is a part also.

Given the above is true, those functions do deteriorate with age, unquestionably.

In general muscle mass decreases because your testosterone levels decrease that means a lower metabolic rate, also because you GH output decreases its harder to burn fat. There are many processes that go a bit slower but there are ways around this. Still its hard to do. I never noticed much extra burn from the extra muscle I gained. I am now more muscular as a few years ago but can't say i really notice a difference. But it is said that muscle burns energy (more so as fat fat does burn a little energy too)

Again I can only go by received knowledge and I really don't know, however my belief is that this difference is not significant.

[robblok]

http://www.acefitness.org/acefit/healthy-living-article/60/2315/is-it-true-that-metabolism-decreases-with-age/

[mommysboy]

http://www.acefitness.org/acefit/healthy-living-article/60/2315/is-it-true-that-metabolism-decreases-with-age/

It's great to hear of latest possibilities, generally my knowledge comes from mainstream sites like Mayo or Livestrong, and there are health programmes on BBC Radio 4 and World Service.

But what is obvious is that nearly everyone I know has put on weight as they have aged, even the definitive skinny rake like me. Must be something metabolic. So it comes down to the age old question, why is it some people can do something about it while others feel powerless ?, perhaps some undergo more of a change

For me the problem has always been maintaining weight. At worst following a disastrous spell in my life I lost my appetite and that combined with a rather intense bout of anxiety led the weight to fall off me frighteningly fast. I think I had manged to restore some balance at around 64kg. Not good for someone a tad under 6'. Recently I have maintained weight at around 74-75kg. I decided I really prefer around 70kg and basically cut down on food again. And here I am about 71kg now.

Surprisingly, I have got used to eating little again and feeling a bit hungry most of the time. So much so I am getting a bit worried. I've had to notch the belt up a bit too much.

From my experience I do understand just how hopeless one can feel under the grips of low self esteem, and how seemingly crazy patterns can become the norm. I think it may be much the same with some overweight people, only in the opposite.

[chiang mai]

Perhaps best to define "metabolism", here's one definition:

"Metabolism: The whole range of biochemical processes that occur within a living organism. Metabolism consists of anabolism (the buildup of substances) and catabolism (the breakdown of substances). The term metabolism is commonly used to refer specifically to the breakdown of food and its transformation into energy". http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4359

.....and I do think that thyroid and liver functions are a part of the above hence blood sugar management is a part also.

Given the above is true, those functions do deteriorate with age, unquestionably.

Yes absolutely I see this.

I was understanding it as metabolic rate perhaps, a bit like the tick over on a car, the rate at which fuel is converted to energy, this is the bit which is pretty much constant regardless of age or diet.

It's important because there are a few myths about metabolic rate which lead people to believe that their body is in some way different.

But taken at face value the statement "I have slow metabolism" could perhaps be more accurately stated as "I have insulin resistance". Bit simplistic I know it could also be poor digestion in general.

I think your understanding is correct and the analogy of a car engine a good one, although I'm unsure about the last part where you say they remain constant with age and diet. I'm close to being out of my depth here but I understand that those things do change, certainly most people seem to become fatter as they grow older (middle age) although in much older people, weight loss is quite common.

[robblok]

http://www.acefitness.org/acefit/healthy-living-article/60/2315/is-it-true-that-metabolism-decreases-with-age/

It's great to hear of latest possibilities, generally my knowledge comes from mainstream sites like Mayo or Livestrong, and there are health programmes on BBC Radio 4 and World Service.

But what is obvious is that nearly everyone I know has put on weight as they have aged, even the definitive skinny rake like me. Must be something metabolic. So it comes down to the age old question, why is it some people can do something about it while others feel powerless ?, perhaps some undergo more of a change

For me the problem has always been maintaining weight. At worst following a disastrous spell in my life I lost my appetite and that combined with a rather intense bout of anxiety led the weight to fall off me frighteningly fast. I think I had manged to restore some balance at around 64kg. Not good for someone a tad under 6'. Recently I have maintained weight at around 74-75kg. I decided I really prefer around 70kg and basically cut down on food again. And here I am about 71kg now.

Surprisingly, I have got used to eating little again and feeling a bit hungry most of the time. So much so I am getting a bit worried. I've had to notch the belt up a bit too much.

From my experience I do understand just how hopeless one can feel under the grips of low self esteem, and how seemingly crazy patterns can become the norm. I think it may be much the same with some overweight people, only in the opposite.

The reason why some gain more weight as others is lifestyle some decide to do something about it and others don't. Some have never exercised and when they see the weight gain they start doing so and going from doing nothing to exercise helps. However others are already exercising and its hard to add more. Muscle does burn more as fat its not a lot but all little bits help. The weight gain when older (and in general most weight gain) does not happen over night.

So those small changes do influence a lot. Also testosterone helps to keep fat off the belly some go lift heavy weights (helps to keep your testosterone levels up) others take injections (HRT) and others don't do a thing and get more fat around the belly. Combine this with a less active job (people tend to take less labor intensive jobs when older) and you got a perfect storm.

Those few percents and the same food and time will make them gain weight, especially if they don't check their weight regularly and adjust what they are doing.

Also with age your growth hormone secretion drops (starts real young) and growth hormone helps with burning of fat. Exercise again helps to keep this up a bit. All these small things combined give you say 200 cals a day that you burn less. In the long run over months that adds up to kilo's.

Below a real good article to read i like the writer a lot he backs his claims up with science and research I have read a few of his books.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/metabolic-rate-overview.html/

[robblok]

To add, all the things point that the differences and increases in metabolic rate are low. So JT his dream of a pill that will allow him to eat what he wants and not get fat is a pipe dream. The solution lies in a pill that helps curb hunger that is a far more feasible thing to create. Unfortunately that is not a good thing for all the food lovers.

I am Dutch so I have used my fair share of drugs in the past, I have even used speed at one time to see how it influenced my appetite. Using it I could go a day or more without food. So drugs like that are available (not suggesting speed here but if scientist study it more they might be able to separate the appetite inhibitor from the bad effects).

The only drug that i know off that has a real influence on metabolic rate 20-40% more is DNP. But this is a dangerous drug if misused, I have used it but its not a thing you want to use in Thailand as you keep on sweating and I sweat enough already. (i just like to try stuff to see what it does). The drug helped and weight loss was easy but life was hell (at least in Thailand) So I vowed never to touch it again. There are many horror stories on the drug but that usually came from people misusing it in literature there is no sign it causes cancer. Problem is that the deadly dose and a good dose are close (like in the rage of 1 to 4) plus the half life is long so it accumulates and if you don't take that into account your screwed. (again not suggesting people to take it if they can even get the stuff) just telling my experiences and why I think that appetite control is the way to go not extra burn.

[mommysboy]

To add, all the things point that the differences and increases in metabolic rate are low. So JT his dream of a pill that will allow him to eat what he wants and not get fat is a pipe dream. The solution lies in a pill that helps curb hunger that is a far more feasible thing to create. Unfortunately that is not a good thing for all the food lovers.

I am Dutch so I have used my fair share of drugs in the past, I have even used speed at one time to see how it influenced my appetite. Using it I could go a day or more without food. So drugs like that are available (not suggesting speed here but if scientist study it more they might be able to separate the appetite inhibitor from the bad effects).

The only drug that i know off that has a real influence on metabolic rate 20-40% more is DNP. But this is a dangerous drug if misused, I have used it but its not a thing you want to use in Thailand as you keep on sweating and I sweat enough already. (i just like to try stuff to see what it does). The drug helped and weight loss was easy but life was hell (at least in Thailand) So I vowed never to touch it again. There are many horror stories on the drug but that usually came from people misusing it in literature there is no sign it causes cancer. Problem is that the deadly dose and a good dose are close (like in the rage of 1 to 4) plus the half life is long so it accumulates and if you don't take that into account your screwed. (again not suggesting people to take it if they can even get the stuff) just telling my experiences and why I think that appetite control is the way to go not extra burn.

I think curbing appetite in a way that does not involve teeth gritting is the key.

I can definitely say drinking hot black tea.

Strong Americano coffee with a teaspoon of sugar.

Keeping well hydrated, and particularly drinking water 20-30 mins before eating a meal.

E-cigs particularly mint flavour. Nicotine very useful.

Sucking on mints.

Taking ginger in small doses (too much for me).

[robblok]

To add, all the things point that the differences and increases in metabolic rate are low. So JT his dream of a pill that will allow him to eat what he wants and not get fat is a pipe dream. The solution lies in a pill that helps curb hunger that is a far more feasible thing to create. Unfortunately that is not a good thing for all the food lovers.

I am Dutch so I have used my fair share of drugs in the past, I have even used speed at one time to see how it influenced my appetite. Using it I could go a day or more without food. So drugs like that are available (not suggesting speed here but if scientist study it more they might be able to separate the appetite inhibitor from the bad effects).

The only drug that i know off that has a real influence on metabolic rate 20-40% more is DNP. But this is a dangerous drug if misused, I have used it but its not a thing you want to use in Thailand as you keep on sweating and I sweat enough already. (i just like to try stuff to see what it does). The drug helped and weight loss was easy but life was hell (at least in Thailand) So I vowed never to touch it again. There are many horror stories on the drug but that usually came from people misusing it in literature there is no sign it causes cancer. Problem is that the deadly dose and a good dose are close (like in the rage of 1 to 4) plus the half life is long so it accumulates and if you don't take that into account your screwed. (again not suggesting people to take it if they can even get the stuff) just telling my experiences and why I think that appetite control is the way to go not extra burn.

I think curbing appetite in a way that does not involve teeth gritting is the key.

I can definitely say drinking hot black tea.

Strong Americano coffee with a teaspoon of sugar.

Keeping well hydrated, and particularly drinking water 20-30 mins before eating a meal.

E-cigs particularly mint flavour. Nicotine very useful.

Sucking on mints.

Taking ginger in small doses (too much for me).

I drink loads of green tea myself. (hot)

Just wondering E cigs i know nicotine helps but its a poison as such too (not saying that the stuff i used does not fall in the same category) , but nicotine does curb appetite and increases your BMR

edit just read its not dangerous.. (but there is controversy depending on what site you read)

Edited October 27, 2015 by robblok

[Jingthing]

I agree that's a huge benefit to find ways to limit appetite and still not feel either overly hungry or deprived of enjoying food. I think that's the natural state for people without weight control issues. Of course hunger is very useful. So you're hungry when you eat that is good. But modern people tend to eat based on the clock and social pressures instead of hunger. Becoming overly hungry is a danger zone for many as it can trigger overeating. Our natural state is uncertainty about the next meal. Modern world very for from that for so many.

[robblok]

I agree that's a huge benefit to find ways to limit appetite and still not feel either overly hungry or deprived of enjoying food. I think that's the natural state for people without weight control issues. Of course hunger is very useful. So you're hungry when you eat that is good. But modern people tend to eat based on the clock and social pressures instead of hunger. Becoming overly hungry is a danger zone for many as it can trigger overeating. Our natural state is uncertainty about the next meal. Modern world very for from that for so many.

You can't read this but others can so I reply anyway.

I eat on the clock in a way because if I don't i get overly hungry and worry I overeat on a meal. But I do wonder is my hunger sensation based on my body expecting food at a certain time or is it real hunger that I need food.

My natural state is always a bit hungry and I could eat quite a lot without getting full. That is why i limit my portions and after a meal it takes a bit of time to feel full (20 minutes for the signal to reach your brain or so I have read)

JT is right about that there is too much food around so its easy for those who are in the natural state of being hungry to overeat. If sibutramine did not have the side effects I noticed I would have used it more as it seriously curbed my appetite and made me feel not hungry. (i value my sleep above all other things I hate it when I sleep bad it influences my whole day)

[h90]

I agree that's a huge benefit to find ways to limit appetite and still not feel either overly hungry or deprived of enjoying food. I think that's the natural state for people without weight control issues. Of course hunger is very useful. So you're hungry when you eat that is good. But modern people tend to eat based on the clock and social pressures instead of hunger. Becoming overly hungry is a danger zone for many as it can trigger overeating. Our natural state is uncertainty about the next meal. Modern world very for from that for so many.

You can't read this but others can so I reply anyway.

I eat on the clock in a way because if I don't i get overly hungry and worry I overeat on a meal. But I do wonder is my hunger sensation based on my body expecting food at a certain time or is it real hunger that I need food.

My natural state is always a bit hungry and I could eat quite a lot without getting full. That is why i limit my portions and after a meal it takes a bit of time to feel full (20 minutes for the signal to reach your brain or so I have read)

JT is right about that there is too much food around so its easy for those who are in the natural state of being hungry to overeat. If sibutramine did not have the side effects I noticed I would have used it more as it seriously curbed my appetite and made me feel not hungry. (i value my sleep above all other things I hate it when I sleep bad it influences my whole day)

Everyone is different, but I find it much easier to not eat at all, than eating small amounts. Also it helps to get eating out of the mind. But it needed a while till I got used to it.

[mommysboy]

I agree that's a huge benefit to find ways to limit appetite and still not feel either overly hungry or deprived of enjoying food. I think that's the natural state for people without weight control issues. Of course hunger is very useful. So you're hungry when you eat that is good. But modern people tend to eat based on the clock and social pressures instead of hunger. Becoming overly hungry is a danger zone for many as it can trigger overeating. Our natural state is uncertainty about the next meal. Modern world very for from that for so many.

I guess I am one of those people without weight control issues. Yet, I am do experience some state of hunger quite often during the day and evening, it's just that I don't call it that and I don't feel any undue pain or discomfort.

For me, I only really say I am hungry when my stomach is rumbling or I start feeling some hunger pangs. Sometimes if I work out I feel a bit jittery and trembly afterwards. Anything less than this I suppose I would say is feeling a bit peckish, and this I start to feel about an hour or so after eating a meal and is a state easily lived with.

Feeling peckish is assuaged, for me anyway, by walking, drinking tea or coffee, becoming immersed in something like the internet, working, and just conversing with friends, just ordinary everday activities that make you think less of your body, feelings and emotions.

Perhaps I've missed something but I would suggest this is a template for the natural state of us skinnies. I have to admit I just asumed it was the same for everyone.

Edit : I used to teach at a university. Come last period before lunchtime, you could visibly see students starting to get hungry. Sometimes I used to ask them how hungry, you's get a chorus in reply " very, very hue (hungry in Thai)". Other times I would jokingly ask if they wanted to go on another 10 mins. You can imagine I never got a yes. I'd imagine then that 3-4 hours had elapsed since they's eaten properly. Most if not all were hungry as they'd head in a bunch down to the canteen. And it's reasonable to assume that they hadn't suddenly just become hungry. So this for me defines a normal state for most people. It's what we live with and nobody should really be feeling unduly uncomfortable imo.

Edited October 27, 2015 by mommysboy

[Mooner]

Jingthing is a major contributor to food threads.

Now I'm PRESUMING there is a weight issue. Doesn't bother me.

Now saying don't put everyone together is ok if you are talking about medical conditions like a underactive thyroid but let's be honest 90 percent of the time it's not.

We reach a time in our lives sometime where we give up or don't care. I've recently put on 15 kg in about 2 years and I know why because I like a beer and I like a snack after a beer, always have.

Only difference now to before is I am not active.

I realize I need to make a choice now otherwise it will be much harder.

I don't need othera to shame me. I'm ashamed myself. If they choose to shame me then I will agree with them.

Choose you path and go with it. We make choices every day and we live with them.

If you eat and drink to much you will probably get fat. I don't see how you can disagree with somebodys opinion of you because of that.

If you do thing's counter productive to your lifespan (drugs, smoking,drinking,or reckless behaviour people will always have an opinion

[mommysboy]

To add, all the things point that the differences and increases in metabolic rate are low. So JT his dream of a pill that will allow him to eat what he wants and not get fat is a pipe dream. The solution lies in a pill that helps curb hunger that is a far more feasible thing to create. Unfortunately that is not a good thing for all the food lovers.

I am Dutch so I have used my fair share of drugs in the past, I have even used speed at one time to see how it influenced my appetite. Using it I could go a day or more without food. So drugs like that are available (not suggesting speed here but if scientist study it more they might be able to separate the appetite inhibitor from the bad effects).

The only drug that i know off that has a real influence on metabolic rate 20-40% more is DNP. But this is a dangerous drug if misused, I have used it but its not a thing you want to use in Thailand as you keep on sweating and I sweat enough already. (i just like to try stuff to see what it does). The drug helped and weight loss was easy but life was hell (at least in Thailand) So I vowed never to touch it again. There are many horror stories on the drug but that usually came from people misusing it in literature there is no sign it causes cancer. Problem is that the deadly dose and a good dose are close (like in the rage of 1 to 4) plus the half life is long so it accumulates and if you don't take that into account your screwed. (again not suggesting people to take it if they can even get the stuff) just telling my experiences and why I think that appetite control is the way to go not extra burn.

I think curbing appetite in a way that does not involve teeth gritting is the key.

I can definitely say drinking hot black tea.

Strong Americano coffee with a teaspoon of sugar.

Keeping well hydrated, and particularly drinking water 20-30 mins before eating a meal.

E-cigs particularly mint flavour. Nicotine very useful.

Sucking on mints.

Taking ginger in small doses (too much for me).

I drink loads of green tea myself. (hot)

Just wondering E cigs i know nicotine helps but its a poison as such too (not saying that the stuff i used does not fall in the same category) , but nicotine does curb appetite and increases your BMR

edit just read its not dangerous.. (but there is controversy depending on what site you read)

I made the decision based on info. coming out from health authorities in UK, where it is soon to be licensed for medical use, and it is championed as having the potential to save millions of lives.

Though it can not be said to be 100% safe as it simply hasn't been around long enough to judge, my understanding is that is either safe or 95% less harmful than smoking.

Critics raise concerns over the possible long term effects of inhaling propylene glycol in quantity at hot temperatures. This is an unknown. As yet there have been no reported health concerns and it is a theoretical risk.

Some juice may also be of a poor quality, I believe there was one flavour in particular that had high levels of a carcinogenic substance.

One lab test performed using a high powered 'mod' reported high levels of formaldehyde. But this was a lab test. In reality steam produced at high temperatures 'dry puff' tastes foul and simply can't be inhaled in real life without choking. So in a sense it was nonsense.

There were some concerns over exploding devices, but in every case investigated there were either strong suspicions of bogus claims, or the device had been tampered with, eg, batteries were stacked and the unfortunate victim had effectively created a pipe bomb.

Batteries have been reported as venting (exploding) whilst charging. This has been shown as true when a usb cable or car adaptor is used. I don't think it has happened with the original dedicated charger. I think the issue of venting can occur with phones too.

Ecigarettes are banned in Thailand, or at least the selling of them, so they may not be easily acquired. Similarly ones ordered from outside the country on ther internet might be sent back to sender as inadmissable.