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Thai man massively overcharged at national park because he looks like a farang


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Me is wondering if Mr Grittapohn Chattreesagoon would have complained about the unfair pricing system if he were only charged the "Thai" 20 baht. It's an interesting dilemna; I'm sure the national parks, museums, and other venues need revenue to maintain these sights. Indeed, many Thai's are in a lower income bracket compared to most foreigners traveling the world on holiday. And hey, they are local.

On the other hand, as I can attest, it seems duly unfair and prejudiced to charge foreigners more - especially when we / if we live here legally; don't we spend enough $ traveling around, eating, drinking, flying, tipping, as well as other unmentionables that support the Thai economy - tourism - which is Thailand's foremost moneymaker? Gee, I would hate to risk tarnishing the tourism industry more than it already is (thanks to scammers and taxis etc.) by alienating foreigners with rip off prices at national parks. Me, I would think the solution would be to make it one price, somewhere between the 20 baht local and the 200 baht farang, 120 baht for everybody - except kids - ….. but that's another story… kids should be free. wink.png Another solution is to boycott these places. Hey, if you don't like it, don't go and don't pay! And finally, on the other side… gee what's the big deal… traveling around the world having a good time in a nice country that has 60% lower prices than your own country and you're going to gripe because you have to pay $7 to visit a nice national park? In the U.S. everybody has to pay that amount - or more. Cheap Charly? Me, I've sometimes paid, and at other times have just said, "mai chawp; paang mahk mahk khrap" and walked away happily to the closest bar with extra beer money. Up 2 U.

Edited by TerrylSky
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Publicity seeker! Having 5,000 "friends' tells us that!!

He does look farang and if he didn't (unknown) show his ID card to prove otherwise the attendant had every right to charge him the going rate.

I've visited many parks in this country and if I show my Thai drivers licence I get in for the Thai price!

And whats the problem with dual pricing anyway. Western tourists can afford to pay more. Would the foreigner still visit if Thais were made to pay the same? It's 200 baht, take it or leave it.

You're an idiot, maybe they should start charging according to eye color....your eye color, makes as much sense!

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Publicity seeker! Having 5,000 "friends' tells us that!!

He does look farang and if he didn't (unknown) show his ID card to prove otherwise the attendant had every right to charge him the going rate.

I've visited many parks in this country and if I show my Thai drivers licence I get in for the Thai price!

And whats the problem with dual pricing anyway. Western tourists can afford to pay more. Would the foreigner still visit if Thais were made to pay the same? It's 200 baht, take it or leave it.

You're an idiot, maybe they should start charging according to eye color....your eye color, makes as much sense!

"You're an idiot" clap2.gif

I don't see why eye colour is relevant to anything, but you're clearly far more intelligent than me so I'll agree.

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dual pricing exists in all countries.
in all countries students , older people and many others get big discounts, if they have a local id.
in venice, italy, tourist pay 11x more than locals for boats, museums, toilets, internet etc. the doges-palace is free for locals, tourists pay up to 60 euros for a family of 4.(2400 baht, just for 1 museum)
swimmingpools for locals are cheaper, because they pay taxes, that is legal even in germany.
every tourist site in india, like taj mahal, has much higher prices for tourists.
http://www.indiachinainstitute.org/2014/07/19/tourist-prices-dual-pricing-for-a-good-cause/

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The only way to solve this is to treat Thais exactly the same way they treat foreigners. When Thais go abroad, they should be ready to fork out a hell of a lot more than locals. Then they will understand how foreigners feel when they are charged 10X the local entrance fee. I call this parity in policy.

Good luck !

If you tried that in Australia you would be hauled before the consumer protection board not to mention being publicly ridiculed and accused of being racist.

Exactly. Many parts of Asia (and rich Japan's egregious in this way in certain situations) are completely racist and have no consumer protection. Consequently.....

At Angkor Khmers are free, foreigners pay $20 a day. Of course this site world-class (and to me at least mind-blowing). I've no problem with it due to the quality, but the problem in that case is the money goes to a private corporation (that's even Vietnamese-controlled, I've heard) and basically zero goes to upkeep, which is why the restoration projects are all funded by foreign countries.

This is all just part of SE Asia being, well, backward in many ways. It can be tolerated but not condoned.

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Now for 1 Thai, he has had a taste of how it feels to be a Farang living in Thailand. He is suffering from the curse of the dreaded Farang syndrome.. .

After this episode may be many Thais will reconsider using those skin whitening lotions and potions, because being white might look nice, but it`s going to cost them more to live here, 10 times as much in fact, with everyone trying to rip them off everywhere they go.

I wonder if half Farangs and half Thais only pay 5 times the going rate? How about quarter Thais? Welcome to the Nazi regime of racial profiling and categorisation.

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dual pricing exists in all countries.

in all countries students , older people and many others get big discounts, if they have a local id.

in venice, italy, tourist pay 11x more than locals for boats, museums, toilets, internet etc. the doges-palace is free for locals, tourists pay up to 60 euros for a family of 4.(2400 baht, just for 1 museum)

swimmingpools for locals are cheaper, because they pay taxes, that is legal even in germany.

every tourist site in india, like taj mahal, has much higher prices for tourists.

http://www.indiachinainstitute.org/2014/07/19/tourist-prices-dual-pricing-for-a-good-cause/

But in Italy it is based on wether you are a 'local' or a 'tourist'... Correct?

Not skin color, correct?

Do white skinned 'locals' pay one price and ' dark skinned' or 'Asian looking' locals have to pay the tourist price?

I would venture no...

I would venture that all locals that can show some form of Local ID .. Like a Italian Drivers license or similar can get the local price, correct? And this is every time at every location, yes?

It's not that showing a Italian drivers license only works sometimes at some places, depending on the mood of the ticket vendor, correct?

Can the ticket vendor say... I don't care if you have Italian ID... You look like a foreigner... So pay the tourist price?

Well put CWM. See my post above yours......

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dual pricing exists in all countries.

in all countries students , older people and many others get big discounts, if they have a local id.

in venice, italy, tourist pay 11x more than locals for boats, museums, toilets, internet etc. the doges-palace is free for locals, tourists pay up to 60 euros for a family of 4.(2400 baht, just for 1 museum)

swimmingpools for locals are cheaper, because they pay taxes, that is legal even in germany.

every tourist site in india, like taj mahal, has much higher prices for tourists.

http://www.indiachinainstitute.org/2014/07/19/tourist-prices-dual-pricing-for-a-good-cause/

But in Italy it is based on wether you are a 'local' or a 'tourist'... Correct?

Not skin color, correct?

Do white skinned 'locals' pay one price and ' dark skinned' or 'Asian looking' locals have to pay the tourist price?

I would venture no...

I would venture that all locals that can show some form of Local ID .. Like a Italian Drivers license or similar can get the local price, correct? And this is every time at every location, yes?

It's not that showing a Italian drivers license only works sometimes at some places, depending on the mood of the ticket vendor, correct?

Can the ticket vendor say... I don't care if you have Italian ID... You look like a foreigner... So pay the tourist price?

Why are you making this about skin colour?

It's all non-thais regardless of skin colour that should pay the foreigner price!

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'... Mr Grittapohn, who has a combined total of more than 5,000 friends and followers on Facebook, took to the social network to express his anger at the ... unfairness of the dual pricing policy.' But presumably only because the park insisted in screwing him. Still, something might come of it. A pity the embassies don't get off their collective a . . . s and aggressively advertise the policy to their nationals, together with the locations. Enough of a drop in income and these places most certainly would turn to a different tune.

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"It's not just national parks. Aquarium at Paragon has double pricing. Disgraceful slap in the face by a well known Thai company. "

Thats an unfortunately bad example as that is owned by a well known UK visitor attraction company not Thai owned.

I doubt that. A share, perhaps, but it's still essentially Thai. Tussauds is probably a better example, given they expect to be able to charge stupid amounts for foreign visitors, many of whom have visited, and take for granted it won't be a patch on, London's MT, so won't pay, anyway.

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And sometimes locals get discounts.

What is a local?

It's somebody who lives in a particular vicinity, NOT somebody who lives in a particular vicinity and matches the personal prejudices of some goon in a ticket booth.

The "goon" is ordered to charge foreigners 200 baht.

The Thai person clearly looks like a farang so unless he could prove he was Thai the "goon" was doing his job.

If this Thai produced his ID then people have cause to complain but the report doesn't say he did.

IMO this was a set up!

What should we refer to someone that calls someone else a "goon"?

Well, gee Mr. Traveller, you just called someone a "racist", simply for pointing out that a dual pricing policy that is clearly predicated on a person's race is racist, so what should we call you?

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Ok as long as you're prepared to let the poor Thai visiting Paris have a discount!

Dual pricing happens in many countries. In the UK adults pay more than OAP's and kids to enter many places. And sometimes locals get discounts.

None of which is based on third world racism.

Showing some decency to the young and old in the West is no justification for supporting racist behaviour in developing countries.

How about encouraging them to... develop?

Only a racist could consider this racism!

Oh please...if you can't separate the difference from charging seniors & minor a lower price than adults,

as not being the same as overcharging someone from outside the country, when compared to the locals,

then you are the one that's confused.

The country refuses to develop, that's a fact.

It's not racist to understand that.

Example of lack of development here:

Honda motorcycle still wants to state that if anyone uses a debit card,

for purchases, such as a motorcycle, they will be charged 3%.

Why?

Because the banks charge the company that.

Isn't 3% the cost of doing business?

I do understand when a company states that the debit charge needs to be over 1,000 bht,

to be processed free of transaction fee,

but it just rubs me the wrong way when the companies selling,

especially large ticket items,

still refuse to cover any of their own operational cost,

and wish to pass it on to the consumers.

Of course this goes both ways- Locals & Foreigners.

Didn't want anyone to confuse this as being racist...

I used this example as a sign which shows imho what some of the large companies within Thailand still refusing to develop,

yet rather continue on with their BS story about what the banks charge them,

as if we the consumer are supposed to care about what BOT does to it's merchants.

After all it's the merchants that are making the money on the transaction,

isn't it?

Isn't there always some cost in doing business?

The National parks here are mostly funded through tourism,

it would be taxes that funded them, but locals don't usually pay much in the form of tax,

but doesn't the funding for things like National parks already come into the country through the exit fee's we pay upon departing from Thailand?

When we questioned the additional charge from the local,

the Thai's would state, "it is little bit for you".

Really, how do they know how long we saved up for this visit to the country,

or to visit the National Park?

How do the Thai's know what is a little bit for us (foreigners)?

How is it that us foreigners have more money than the Thai's?

When 30% or more of our money earned is paid in taxes before we even see our salary land in our hand.

If the Thai's make so little compared to the local cost of living,

then why is it they can all afford to buy a new over priced vehicle every four years,

compared to the prices we might pay for the same vehicle in our home country,

not to mention how long we might own that shinny new toy in our own countries.

I don't see many classics out there on the roads in Thailand.

Especially not compared to North America or Europe.

My ride back home is a 1964 skylark,

and I enjoy it, but people would be hard pressed to find a Thai,

caught riding in something so old,

regardless if it was restored or not,

they just would consider it embarrassing to be in something made so long ago.

In other words, the little salaries the locals might make,

goes so much farther, when all the things they do outside their home is subsidized by the foreigners,

who have to pay much more to enjoy the same while visiting or living here.

Of course we have all heard time & again, that TIT,

and if we don't like it go home... saai.gif

When in reality this is exactly what the local have tried so hard to wash into our brains.

Rather than if we just refused to pay for the things that are overpriced to foreigners,

when it's clearly posted what the comparison price is for the locals,

which would in fact result in the establishment having to make changes,

or suffer the loss of revenue from the foreign consumers here.

What really cheesy.gif is when we read or hear the foreigners stating, writing what we would hear a Thai state,

then we know for a fact that the Thai's are good at what they do...controlling their tourism,

and getting the most out of it, while offering or caring so little.

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According to the Post's account of this, which made more sense, it seemed that the man, whose real name is Jack Keen, is an American who was born in the US to American parents who brought him with them to live in Thaialand when he was young. He probably went to Thai schools as he has obvioualy grown up totally fluent in Thai. However, he is apparently not a Thai citizen and, according to the Post, was unable to produce a Thai ID card, only a driving licence which doesn't state nationality. The Post said he was a permanent resident, which is possible if his father got PR and then applied for it for his wife and minor children. If his father had got Thai citizenship before Mr Keen was 20, he could have got that too at the same time, but it doesn't seem that happened.

I abhor the dual pricing system, particularly that the government does it, and it is great that this story is publicising it. However, Mr Keen's anger seemed directed not at the policy of overcharging foreigners, but at the staff for not letting him in at the Thai price without being able to show a Thai ID card. He didn't say whether he approved of the dual pricing policy for other foreigners but just made clear that he should be exempted from it because he has lived in Thailand for a long time and speaks, writes and reads Thai (along with many other TV members.)

Since acquiring my own Thai ID card, I have used it a few times to go into dual pricing establishments with no problem at all. Before I got it I went to this green pool in Krabi and was forced to pay the foreigner price at which I protested. I tried to refuse to do in but Mrs Arkady forced me inside and paid the fee herself to shut me up. I concluded it wasn't worth B200 or even B20. Mr Keen and his friends didn't miss much but got a wonderful excuse to go 'viral' on dual pricing, even though they probably don't object to it being applied to the vast majority of foreigners.

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And sometimes locals get discounts.

What is a local?

It's somebody who lives in a particular vicinity, NOT somebody who lives in a particular vicinity and matches the personal prejudices of some goon in a ticket booth.

The "goon" is ordered to charge foreigners 200 baht.

The Thai person clearly looks like a farang so unless he could prove he was Thai the "goon" was doing his job.

If this Thai produced his ID then people have cause to complain but the report doesn't say he did.

IMO this was a set up!

What should we refer to someone that calls someone else a "goon"?

Well, gee Mr. Traveller, you just called someone a "racist", simply for pointing out that a dual pricing policy that is clearly predicated on a person's race is racist, so what should we call you?

It is not racist for a country to charge non-citizens a different amount than it's own citizens.

Edited by elviajero
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Publicity seeker! Having 5,000 "friends' tells us that!!

He does look farang and if he didn't (unknown) show his ID card to prove otherwise the attendant had every right to charge him the going rate.

I've visited many parks in this country and if I show my Thai drivers licence I get in for the Thai price!

And whats the problem with dual pricing anyway. Western tourists can afford to pay more. Would the foreigner still visit if Thais were made to pay the same? It's 200 baht, take it or leave it.

I'm fairly certain many Thais can afford to pay more than me so why don't they charge them more as well. I'm not a tourist either.

Edited by kimamey
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Publicity seeker! Having 5,000 "friends' tells us that!!

He does look farang and if he didn't (unknown) show his ID card to prove otherwise the attendant had every right to charge him the going rate.

I've visited many parks in this country and if I show my Thai drivers licence I get in for the Thai price!

And whats the problem with dual pricing anyway. Western tourists can afford to pay more. Would the foreigner still visit if Thais were made to pay the same? It's 200 baht, take it or leave it.

I'm fairly certain many Thais can afford to pay more than me so why don't they charge them more as well. I'm not a tourist either.

Maybe you should ask the person in charge of park entrance pricing. But IMO the answer is because they are Thai.

You're a foreigner (regardless of the label you want to apply to yourself) and do not have the same rights as the citizens of this country. The right you do have is the choice to pay the price asked or not.

I think that Thais should pay less but I also think the x10 premium is a bit much especially when taking the entry fee to 400 baht. Imo its not great value for money and It would be nice if they came up with a lower fee for long term foreign residents, but if my family want a day out at a park I'm not going to deny them over 180/360 baht!

Edited by elviajero
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Wow I cannot believe the moaning and gripping of people on this forum there is no duel pricing the price is set and Thai people get a discount because its there bloody country, considering the average Thai wage is about 5000 bht a month how can you expect them to pay full price 200bht is just £4

the average thai wage is 13500thb pr month...it's 2015 now man, it not 1997.

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Wow I cannot believe the moaning and gripping of people on this forum there is no duel pricing the price is set and Thai people get a discount because its there bloody country, considering the average Thai wage is about 5000 bht a month how can you expect them to pay full price 200bht is just £4

the average thai wage is 13500thb pr month...it's 2015 now man, it not 1997.

Could you reveal your sources for this 13500 baht monthly wage average.

I would be interested to know.

Cheers.

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To me, its no really the amount of money they ask us farangs to pay. Back home we pay often more to get into a park or whatever to get in. It is that feeling of being treated like a 2nd class person, stupid tourist etc.

If my wife would be charged more here in Australia to get in a Park, because she is Thai, I would be ashamed and sure protest about it. Most Thais seem to accept and agree that Farangs should pay more, simply because we "have more money

They never learnt the concept of equality that us westerners value so much.

I usually pay, but it does spoil the fun a bit.

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Publicity seeker! Having 5,000 "friends' tells us that!!

He does look farang and if he didn't (unknown) show his ID card to prove otherwise the attendant had every right to charge him the going rate.

I've visited many parks in this country and if I show my Thai drivers licence I get in for the Thai price!

And whats the problem with dual pricing anyway. Western tourists can afford to pay more. Would the foreigner still visit if Thais were made to pay the same? It's 200 baht, take it or leave it.

Rich Thai who g to Paris can also afford a 10-folded price, let's do the same to them!

Ok as long as you're prepared to let the poor Thai visiting Paris have a discount!

Do the poor Farangs (backpackers for example) get discount here or I just missed something ? I think you are to long or to short time here... And I can beat that your favorite sentence is "If you don't like something in Thailand you can leave" or "foreigners don't understand Thailand" or something similar...

post-175342-0-86371700-1444082159_thumb.

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Publicity seeker! Having 5,000 "friends' tells us that!!

He does look farang and if he didn't (unknown) show his ID card to prove otherwise the attendant had every right to charge him the going rate.

I've visited many parks in this country and if I show my Thai drivers licence I get in for the Thai price!

And whats the problem with dual pricing anyway. Western tourists can afford to pay more. Would the foreigner still visit if Thais were made to pay the same? It's 200 baht, take it or leave it.

I'm fairly certain many Thais can afford to pay more than me so why don't they charge them more as well. I'm not a tourist either.

Maybe you should ask the person in charge of park entrance pricing. But IMO the answer is because they are Thai.

You're a foreigner (regardless of the label you want to apply to yourself) and do not have the same rights as the citizens of this country. The right you do have is the choice to pay the price asked or not.

I think that Thais should pay less but I also think the x10 premium is a bit much especially when taking the entry fee to 400 baht. Imo its not great value for money and It would be nice if they came up with a lower fee for long term foreign residents, but if my family want a day out at a park I'm not going to deny them over 180/360 baht!

I'm not totally against some difference in price but I feel as you do that sometimes it's too much and just looks like they're trying to get as much money from foreigners as possible and see them as a soft touch. The real problem is that Thailand takes practices from other countries that are fairly reasonable and makes a mess of them.

Take the rice scheme. Other countries and groups of countries such as the EU have subsides. They aren't perfect but they work and do some good. They have varying functions including maintaining farming so that it doesn't reduce to a level that causes large scale importing and over reliance on other countries. In other cases it's for environmental reasons such as protecting hedgerows from being ripped up to form larger more efficient fields. The Thai approach in the last government was to offer massive subsidy which couldn't be maintained and brought threats of protests when the government tried to reduce the amount and did no good for the rice market.

The new car tax relief was another one. The US and UK took in old inefficient vehicles and subsidised an equal number of new efficient ones and at the same time helped the car industry through a very bad patch. It effected later sales but did even out the demand. The Thai plan took no vehicles off the road but added many more. It was also a time when the factories, far from being slack were struggling to replace the vehicles lost in the floods.

This dual pricing suffers from the same problem. There are other instances of this where people who by their being resident already contribute to the financing of parks, museums, toll bridges ect. and so get a discount. The Thais as ever have their own way of doing things that lacks logic and this is the point I was making. As far as I know the increased prices are paid by non Thais not just by westerners. I'm not sure how you would define that exactly. The point is not all Thais are poor and if we are to believe what we're often told they are an advanced middle income nation. On average they must be better off financially than visitors from Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma and Lao who are foreigners and would pay the higher price. A slightly higher price for tourists who don't contribute in the long term is fine but Thai nationals and those of us who live here paying the various taxes and donations to temples should, if there has to be a difference pay less.

As for how I label myself I never said I wasn't a foreigner just that I'm not a tourist. You make many contributions to the visa forum so you know very well that Thailand doesn't label me as a tourist either and that unlike tourists Thai banks benefit from considerable amounts of money held in accounts by those who live here.

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In Tanzania, the boat to Zanzibar is much more expensive for westerners. I would say that the situation in Kenya and Tanzania is much worse in general (about the dual pricing situation): even on minibuses/busses and boats they grossly overcharge you. And it's all written in english, they don't try to hide it.

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The tax system here is different from the Western way (i believe)

Anyone spending money here be a tourist, an ex-pat or a Thai person pay most tax through what they spend. Not on what they earn.

So by default we can pay a lot of tax just on our monthly expenses. Where as a Thai person on a minimum wage pays very little.

But we can be looked down on due that we don't work and pay no (earnings) tax.

Speak for yourself, I pay tax and I also have a WP, furthermore I pay taxes for my staff and my company.

There's a lot of farrang paying taxes here, some more, some less but we still pay taxes most of us, if not work related, by import goods, by buying a property/condo or whatnot.

There's at least +7000 farrangs paying their taxes in Phuket as there equally many having a WP.

I was just trying to explain how the system works (to my knowledge) here. smile.png

I pay tax on my spending, you pay tax on spending in addition to business taxes etc.

Which was my point. We all pay tax here, (a lot more than the average Thai person) BUT we still have to pay 10 times to enter some (most) national parks.

Your point is completely wrong, this is called money grabbing nothing else.

I have been to parks where there were quite a few visitors, the parks looks like crap, full of garbage and not kept clean.

A waterfall not far away from Khao Lak was so filled with plastic bags and litter so you had to walk on it on the way up to the waterfall, on this occasion I had to pay 600 THB but my wife and daughter paid 50 TBH (the 600 allowed me entrance to a park near the coast as well). There were maybe 400-500 people there that day, mixed Thai with farrang but the majority was farrang. So where does the money go?, Not to keep the park in a clean and tidy state anyway.

????????????????????

Do you not think me stating we pay tax, BUT still pay 10 fold what a Thai does is not about money grabbing??? What did you think i meant?

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The Thai government should either agree or disagree with this dual pricing policy.

Announce this fact to the world should they agree and let foreigners decide.

Deception by using Thai numerals would not work in this age of social media.

The Thai government has disagreed with this policy. It is a law, that foreigners who reside in thailand and have proof such as a thai drivers license or a retirement visa or work permit, pay the same amount as Thais. That letter has been sent to every national park in the country. The park wardens are pocketing the difference. They are becoming very wealthy as they only turn over the amount charged to a Thai. Do they care? Does anyone care? Very obviously not.

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Publicity seeker! Having 5,000 "friends' tells us that!!

He does look farang and if he didn't (unknown) show his ID card to prove otherwise the attendant had every right to charge him the going rate.

I've visited many parks in this country and if I show my Thai drivers licence I get in for the Thai price!

And whats the problem with dual pricing anyway. Western tourists can afford to pay more. Would the foreigner still visit if Thais were made to pay the same? It's 200 baht, take it or leave it.

It would be OK to charge the extra if countries like Australia would do the same for the Thai Tourists who visit so many of our attractions. Thai's would be up in arms pleading discimination. We have laws for that, where as here in Thailand foreigners do not have any rights. Thais need to realise that the world will get fed up with the crap they deal out every day & we will stay away.

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