Immigration Promenada One Stop Service v2

[HenryB]

Even if that GT4 gets closed down things at immigration won`t improve, it will just mean one less agent and one less option. I thought you were against using agents not promoting them? If busy bodies do get the GT4 shut down, I don`t think they`ll get any thanks for it.

Who are you actually battling for, better services at immigration or fairness for the other agents?

Nothing in Nancy's posts have indicated that she is either opposed to or promotes agencies. Like 99% of us here, she appears to be of the opinion that we should have a choice to do whichever suits us and shouldn't be questioned or ridiculed for that choice.

I'd further say that she is (almost single-handedly) battling for BOTH better services for everyone and a level playing field for all agents.

Just my opinion based on my understanding of what she has written.

all agents have to have a in they are not unknown and unconnected to the powers to be the powers to be can close them at any time.

That is why teachers make only about 40,000 a Baht if it was so easy they will become agents to that in on morning please wake up to sample facts

of life

I thank Nancy for Hard Work

[NancyL]

I think you'll find that foreigners can't work as visa agents. The few that employ foreigners are Thai-owned companies that have work permits for a foreigner or two on staff.

I suspect that teachers, Thai or foreign, are like most expats -- not very well educated when it comes to understanding the nuances of Thai visa regulations. It's not just a matter of having a "connection" that makes for a good visa agent.

[Caspersfriend]

If you are infirm, live a long way from Immigration and want to be sure it's all done in one day, or simply wish to avoid the bother of visiting Immigration [even if they offered a 10/10 service], then using a visa agent provides a solution; at a price.

Using them for reasons of not wanting to attend in the hours of darkness to ensure you get seen that day, or simply avoiding the vagaries of never being 100% sure how you will be treated or what will be required of you, is understandable but may also be instrumental in these problems continuing. Treating the symptoms and not the cause rarely gets the best result. Two painkillers might temporarily remove a pain but if the pain is a symptom of something that needs attention it will be back and you will need to take the medicine again. Same with any bad service. The attempts being made by some [such as Nancy] are seeking to address the cause and that is [in the opinion of the many] that Chiang Mai Immigration [for whatever reason or reasons] are not providing the level of service that their 'customers' should reasonably expect to receive; and according to reports is being provided in other regions.

Who owns the agents, what connections they might have, and whether there is some kind of conspiracy going on is really quite irrelevant. If the 'One Stop Service' provides just that then the only people who will want to use them are those in the first sentence. There should not be a need to use them. Maybe the Thailand Immigration Bureau should consider formally outsourcing the evaluation and processing of visa extensions and the like to the private sector. As it does appear to be a waste of time for I/O's to be dealing with simple clerical matters, that can become frustrating for both sides of the desk when language/knowledge of requirements/preparation of documentation gets in the way. All they would then need is to double check and sign off. Makes sense to me but then I have always been a bit of a dreamer.

[Tywais]

but when Col. Rutjapong told me that Bangkok says it would cost nearly 300,000 baht to "fix" the on-line appointment queue and no money was available, I could only think about how long it takes G4T to bring in that amount. Not very long.

Making a very, very crude estimate of CM immigration income. Let's say 100 visits per day of services requiring payment, including extensions, re-entry permits, penalties and miscellaneous at an average of 2000 Baht. That is around 4 million Baht/month. Estimating 25 staff @15,000/month = 375,000 Baht/month. Overhead for the building (old one) 100k/month. So around 500k/month leaving well over 3 million/month in profits but yet they can't afford a one off charge of 300k? Something doesn't add up. Also 300k for a software upgrade for a fairly simple database/website? I'll do it for half that and toss in English translation for free.

[Thailand]

but when Col. Rutjapong told me that Bangkok says it would cost nearly 300,000 baht to "fix" the on-line appointment queue and no money was available, I could only think about how long it takes G4T to bring in that amount. Not very long.

Making a very, very crude estimate of CM immigration income. Let's say 100 visits per day of services requiring payment, including extensions, re-entry permits, penalties and miscellaneous at an average of 2000 Baht. That is around 4 million Baht/month. Estimating 25 staff @15,000/month = 375,000 Baht/month. Overhead for the building (old one) 100k/month. So around 500k/month leaving well over 3 million/month in profits but yet they can't afford a one off charge of 300k? Something doesn't add up. Also 300k for a software upgrade for a fairly simple database/website? I'll do it for half that and toss in English translation for free.

I will accept just 50K for this link.(one of many)

https://simplybook.me

[Trujillo]

Your calculations assume that immigration is a non-profit organization.

If they are getting 75 percent profit, that's a good business, but isn't it supposed to be?

[Tywais]

Your calculations assume that immigration is a non-profit organization.

Not sure how you got that as I specifically said "over 3 million/month in profits".

[Trujillo]

But I think you think (unless I am thinking wrong about how you are thinking) that profits must be used, at least in part, to put back into the system. Profit is what you put in your pocket, and unless you have some instinct that putting some profits back into the system in the guise of an online sign-up will increase those profits, there is no incentive to do that.

[NancyL]

Having an efficient on-line queuing system would increase "profits" in that Immigration agents wouldn't be tied up in the morning passing out queue cards. They could get on with their "real job" of seeing customers earlier in the day and thus bring in more fees.

However, it would eliminate the reason for the existence of G4T since the only service they provide is queue-jumping. There would still be a need for "real" full service visa agents to help those that want more hand-holding, newbies, etc.

Draw your own conclusions as to why there's no progress on revamping, improving and bringing back a good on-line queue.

[mamborobert]

Surely any revenue that Immi receives goes into consolidated revenue to be used by the government for pensions, defence, infrastructure, health, education etc....or are we suggesting that my local school fees very modest as they are pay for all salaries, pensions and operating costs of the school.

Governments work on budget not profit. If G4T is making money it does not translate that their service charge will become funds available for Immi expenditure.

Less agents with full and complete application (and therefore quicker processing) means more people and longer delays at Immi and more elder abuse as you call it.

Once again we have NO linking to show that closing G4T will lead to an immediate and sustainable improvement at Immi.

Make up your mind what you want, and see Immi to fix. Maybe they cannot within existing budgetary limits, in which case this is a Bangkok governance issue.

If you think there is something untoward with G4T contact the junta as the General is quite keen on this, but leave the bleating off TV please.

Immi were bad before G4T and bad now....but at least with G4T and other agents there is a vehicle that speeds up the service for those that want to use it AND those that do not through lessening processing times.

[hml367]

Perhaps the methods trying to be used to "change" things are not conducive to effecting change things.

Many times the ways of the West do not work well in Asia..... not just Thailand.

[northernjohn]

but when Col. Rutjapong told me that Bangkok says it would cost nearly 300,000 baht to "fix" the on-line appointment queue and no money was available, I could only think about how long it takes G4T to bring in that amount. Not very long.

Making a very, very crude estimate of CM immigration income. Let's say 100 visits per day of services requiring payment, including extensions, re-entry permits, penalties and miscellaneous at an average of 2000 Baht. That is around 4 million Baht/month. Estimating 25 staff @15,000/month = 375,000 Baht/month. Overhead for the building (old one) 100k/month. So around 500k/month leaving well over 3 million/month in profits but yet they can't afford a one off charge of 300k? Something doesn't add up. Also 300k for a software upgrade for a fairly simple database/website? I'll do it for half that and toss in English translation for free.

Will your data base include appointments for all or just the 1 out of 5 old system. I recall one poster mentioning that he was up and running at the stroke of midnight with two computers running He managed to get an appointment with one and the other one said full.

Also you forget this is a government operation and all government operations have levels of bureaucracy you never see yet cost a lot of money.

I am by no means defending them just trying to put it a little more in perspective.

[northernjohn]

Anyone who thinks my motive is anything other than to improve conditions at Imm Prom for expats clearly hasn't been paying attention.

Also, they haven't read my posts on the subject of visa agents -- they serve a legitimate purpose for those who need assistance -- are new to the process, want some hand-holding, etc Just like some people like to take care of their own garden and there are who those like to hire a gardener. Those people deserve a full-service visa agent with a website, email, someone who answers the phone and office where they can go for consultations. There's more to being a visa agent than simply offering a customer the privilege of avoiding the queue.

Where I have a big problem with G4T is with a process that encourages Imm. Prom. customers to use them, with Imm. officers that actually take people by the hand and lead them to them. If Imm Prom is setting up their system to funnel traffic toward G4T, then they're not making the effort to improve conditions for their customers.

The only thing they've done to enhance service is distribute queue tickets to everyone in the queue at opening -- and that was only after the letter to the Bangkok Post a couple weeks ago. Still, they're telling people to come at 5 am. They're not telling customers "no worries, get here at opening and you'll get a queue ticket". All other improvements at that office -- indoor waiting, toilets open early, extra space to wait -- all those enhancements came from the mall, not from Imm.

Those of you that proclaim G4T to be great and "no harm" are simply using them to jump the queue. You're just encouraging the status quo to remain at Imm. Prom.

Any one who uses a visa agent to do a 365 day extension is using them to jump the queue. They are also although not intentionally using them to speed service up for the immigration. If you wish Don't call G4T an agent. I and the many others who use them are very satisfied with their service. They do the same thing as all your supposedly dressed up agents do for us at a lot cheaper price. If we want those other services they don't do we will go to one of the high priced ones who does those things.

Like lawyers we don't go to a criminal trial lawyer for a divorce.

If those agents sit inline how can they tell you what time to be at the immigration office for your picture? You have spent enough time around there to know that some take quite a bit longer for them to process than others. It was the same at the old airport office the agents with a webpage and telephone number and e mail address. Are you saying they don't have an inside track like G4T? If I recall correctly the one your husband and even steven never answered some repeated e mails for one fellow who posted about his experience with them. When they did they profesionaly wanted him to come in and give them 1,000 baht to talk about it.

G4T did mine and the girl who took e in told me she was in line at 5:00 in the morning. Do you ask the people in line if they are agents and what company they work for?

You are doing a good job of informing us on what is happening there but it is in no way speeding things up. Yes write the Embassies. Just remember we are only 1 out of over 60 provinces having problems. Also you have dealt with embassies your self. I recall one in essence telling you in a not polite way no. You did how ever get the man the assistance he needed. From all I have read ask the British for any thing is like a big waste of time. According to the latest news the American Ambassador is more concerned with Thailand having an election and other things they are doing wrong. I doubt when he gets a few complaints from 1 out of over 60 provinces it will be high on his list of things to do.

To date the only thing that has happened was you were able to set up a day similar to what the Japanese do which helped some people. I don't know how many and I am sure if you had been able to continue with it there would have been more. That was a very positive step and I hope you will be able to start it up again. Did the Japanese also have to close theirs down?

[NancyL]

NorthernJohn -- I don't see you out at Imm. Prom in the early morning. Yes, I do talk with the visa agents in the queue -- often they aren't the same ones who answer the phones & emails and see people in the office. Many of them are Thai college students. No they don't get "special preference". Remember my September 15th interview with Col. Rutjapong. He stated that ALL visa agents were going to have to send someone to wait in the early morning queue for their customers. There would be no preference for visa agents. That seems to be true for everyone except for one. That G4T girl lied to you about being there at 5 am. Go check it out for yourself. Do you really expect them to tell the truth?

The fact that Chiang Mai is just one of 77 provinces with this problem is indeed a concern to the Consulates and Embassies. Why just Chiang Mai? It certainly is unequal treatment. I can assure you that the U.S. Ambassador is capable of multi-tasking and the British do get cranked when they receive sufficient outcry from their nationals.

The joint session with the Japanese wasn't the "only" thing that has happened. Another thing is that they're passing out more than 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions in the morning and not turning away people who have waiting in the queue for hours. That was a result of the emails to the consuls and the letter to the Bangkok Post.

[cyberfarang]

NorthernJohn -- I don't see you out at Imm. Prom in the early morning. Yes, I do talk with the visa agents in the queue -- often they aren't the same ones who answer the phones & emails and see people in the office. Many of them are Thai college students. No they don't get "special preference". Remember my September 15th interview with Col. Rutjapong. He stated that ALL visa agents were going to have to send someone to wait in the early morning queue for their customers. There would be no preference for visa agents. That seems to be true for everyone except for one. That G4T girl lied to you about being there at 5 am. Go check it out for yourself. Do you really expect them to tell the truth?

The fact that Chiang Mai is just one of 77 provinces with this problem is indeed a concern to the Consulates and Embassies. Why just Chiang Mai? It certainly is unequal treatment. I can assure you that the U.S. Ambassador is capable of multi-tasking and the British do get cranked when they receive sufficient outcry from their nationals.

The joint session with the Japanese wasn't the "only" thing that has happened. Another thing is that they're passing out more than 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions in the morning and not turning away people who have waiting in the queue for hours. That was a result of the emails to the consuls and the letter to the Bangkok Post.

This becomes more confusing by the day because the maths are not adding up.

I gather on average immigration are dishing out 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions each day. But that`s not including the slots made available for visa agents. Is that right? if there are only 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions each day for people that are not agents, does that not mean there must be extra numbers reserved for the agents meaning all the agents must be getting preferential treatment? I am asking, if I turned up at immigration 3. 00 in the morning with 30 of my mates all there for retirement extensions, only 20 of us would be successful? But if I were an agent and turned up with 30 of my mates that were also agents, even on behalf of other people excluding this GT4, would we all be successful in getting retirement extensions?

I also want to ask, have you had any positive or know of anyone who has had positive responses back from the Consulates or Embassies yet?

[mamborobert]

Nancy, if you sincerely believe that one letter to the Bangkok Post and some emails from embassies/consulates lead to a limited improvement then why not pursue this avenue rather than sledge G4T, as the improvement occurred regardless of their existence.

If ONE letter truly made a difference why not through the Expat Club, or Lannacare, or Rotary, or TRBL, whoever you are advocating for, write multiple letters from members and the organisation itself. Surely then that would solve all problems?

Or open up an agency for members or the club sponsor an agent.

The expat club did pay "extra" for their recent service to members by Immi thereby "jumping the queue" of non members......who prefer perhaps to use agents.

Is the expat club planning another queue jump. Perhaps focus on that rather than other queue jumper competitors.

If however this is simply a budgetary and policy decision by the powers in Bangkok for whatever reason then all that is occurring is further alienation from the local Immi. The local boss gets the budget he gets, he can ask for more, or get promoted for doing same with less (by utilising agents), or moved on if he fails (shockingly similar to many western countries) but he cannot conjur money out of thin air, and if he could it would go to consolidated revenue.

Give G4T a rest would you. It's elimation will no more right the wrongs of Immi than it will solve world hunger,

[daoyai]

NorthernJohn -- I don't see you out at Imm. Prom in the early morning. Yes, I do talk with the visa agents in the queue -- often they aren't the same ones who answer the phones & emails and see people in the office. Many of them are Thai college students. No they don't get "special preference". Remember my September 15th interview with Col. Rutjapong. He stated that ALL visa agents were going to have to send someone to wait in the early morning queue for their customers. There would be no preference for visa agents. That seems to be true for everyone except for one. That G4T girl lied to you about being there at 5 am. Go check it out for yourself. Do you really expect them to tell the truth?

The fact that Chiang Mai is just one of 77 provinces with this problem is indeed a concern to the Consulates and Embassies. Why just Chiang Mai? It certainly is unequal treatment. I can assure you that the U.S. Ambassador is capable of multi-tasking and the British do get cranked when they receive sufficient outcry from their nationals.

The joint session with the Japanese wasn't the "only" thing that has happened. Another thing is that they're passing out more than 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions in the morning and not turning away people who have waiting in the queue for hours. That was a result of the emails to the consuls and the letter to the Bangkok Post.

This becomes more confusing by the day because the maths are not adding up.

I gather on average immigration are dishing out 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions each day. But that`s not including the slots made available for visa agents. Is that right? if there are only 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions each day for people that are not agents, does that not mean there must be extra numbers reserved for the agents meaning all the agents must be getting preferential treatment? I am asking, if I turned up at immigration 3. 00 in the morning with 30 of my mates all there for retirement extensions, only 20 of us would be successful? But if I were an agent and turned up with 30 of my mates that were also agents, even on behalf of other people excluding this GT4, would we all be successful in getting retirement extensions?

I also want to ask, have you had any positive or know of anyone who has had positive responses back from the Consulates or Embassies yet?

My recent agent experience suggests some sort of "outside the que " the agent went on her computer and asked me, "8:30 tomorrow ok?" they may possibly send someone to arrive at 2am to guarantee the time slot. Also interesting was the policy that they pay the 1,900 extension fee when handing over the docs bottom of pile out of view... Wonder what would happen if someone pitched a tent and camped there...that would make statement.

[NancyL]

NorthernJohn -- I don't see you out at Imm. Prom in the early morning. Yes, I do talk with the visa agents in the queue -- often they aren't the same ones who answer the phones & emails and see people in the office. Many of them are Thai college students. No they don't get "special preference". Remember my September 15th interview with Col. Rutjapong. He stated that ALL visa agents were going to have to send someone to wait in the early morning queue for their customers. There would be no preference for visa agents. That seems to be true for everyone except for one. That G4T girl lied to you about being there at 5 am. Go check it out for yourself. Do you really expect them to tell the truth?

The fact that Chiang Mai is just one of 77 provinces with this problem is indeed a concern to the Consulates and Embassies. Why just Chiang Mai? It certainly is unequal treatment. I can assure you that the U.S. Ambassador is capable of multi-tasking and the British do get cranked when they receive sufficient outcry from their nationals.

The joint session with the Japanese wasn't the "only" thing that has happened. Another thing is that they're passing out more than 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions in the morning and not turning away people who have waiting in the queue for hours. That was a result of the emails to the consuls and the letter to the Bangkok Post.

This becomes more confusing by the day because the maths are not adding up.

I gather on average immigration are dishing out 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions each day. But that`s not including the slots made available for visa agents. Is that right? if there are only 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions each day for people that are not agents, does that not mean there must be extra numbers reserved for the agents meaning all the agents must be getting preferential treatment? I am asking, if I turned up at immigration 3. 00 in the morning with 30 of my mates all there for retirement extensions, only 20 of us would be successful? But if I were an agent and turned up with 30 of my mates that were also agents, even on behalf of other people excluding this GT4, would we all be successful in getting retirement extensions?

I also want to ask, have you had any positive or know of anyone who has had positive responses back from the Consulates or Embassies yet?

The visa agents queue up at zero-dark-stupid with the regular customers for queue cards for retirement extensions. They all seem to arrive around 5 am and until that letter to the Bangkok Post there were some days when they didn't all get queue numbers because only 20 were distributed. It didn't matter if the people being turned away were visa agents or not.

(What part of Col. Rutjapong saying "the visa agents have to get queue numbers just like the regular customers. There will be no preference for visa agents" don't you understand?)

And to answer your other question -- yes, I most definitely have heard from people who have contacted their Consulates and Embassies and received feedback. In some cases, it's been polite "thank you for your email" and in other cases it's been much more in-depth discussion.

Why is everyone so reluctant to contact their Embassies and Consulates?

[NancyL]

NorthernJohn -- I don't see you out at Imm. Prom in the early morning. Yes, I do talk with the visa agents in the queue -- often they aren't the same ones who answer the phones & emails and see people in the office. Many of them are Thai college students. No they don't get "special preference". Remember my September 15th interview with Col. Rutjapong. He stated that ALL visa agents were going to have to send someone to wait in the early morning queue for their customers. There would be no preference for visa agents. That seems to be true for everyone except for one. That G4T girl lied to you about being there at 5 am. Go check it out for yourself. Do you really expect them to tell the truth?

The fact that Chiang Mai is just one of 77 provinces with this problem is indeed a concern to the Consulates and Embassies. Why just Chiang Mai? It certainly is unequal treatment. I can assure you that the U.S. Ambassador is capable of multi-tasking and the British do get cranked when they receive sufficient outcry from their nationals.

The joint session with the Japanese wasn't the "only" thing that has happened. Another thing is that they're passing out more than 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions in the morning and not turning away people who have waiting in the queue for hours. That was a result of the emails to the consuls and the letter to the Bangkok Post.

This becomes more confusing by the day because the maths are not adding up.

I gather on average immigration are dishing out 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions each day. But that`s not including the slots made available for visa agents. Is that right? if there are only 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions each day for people that are not agents, does that not mean there must be extra numbers reserved for the agents meaning all the agents must be getting preferential treatment? I am asking, if I turned up at immigration 3. 00 in the morning with 30 of my mates all there for retirement extensions, only 20 of us would be successful? But if I were an agent and turned up with 30 of my mates that were also agents, even on behalf of other people excluding this GT4, would we all be successful in getting retirement extensions?

I also want to ask, have you had any positive or know of anyone who has had positive responses back from the Consulates or Embassies yet?

My recent agent experience suggests some sort of "outside the que " the agent went on her computer and asked me, "8:30 tomorrow ok?" they may possibly send someone to arrive at 2am to guarantee the time slot. Also interesting was the policy that they pay the 1,900 extension fee when handing over the docs bottom of pile out of view... Wonder what would happen if someone pitched a tent and camped there...that would make statement.

No agent, not even G4T can guarantee that you'll be seen by an Immigration officer for a retirement visa extension at 8:30 am. They don't interview their first customer until 9 am.

If the agent was anyone besides G4T, then they're sending someone out to Imm. Prom. to wait in the queue. There may be some horse-trading in queue numbers going on between the agents waiting in the queue from what I've seen depending upon what appointment times they've promised customers and sometimes they'll ask the Imm. officer for a higher queue number than the one they're actually going to receive because they've told the customer that they're going to Imm. in the afternoon, not the morning.

I remember one old fellow who was absolutely shocked to receive queue number 4 when he was number 12 in the line, behind the visa agents. That's because none of them wanted an early morning time slot.

[hml367]

In my opinion, ultimatums and finger pointing in Asia will more often than not just get you grief.

[northernjohn]

NorthernJohn -- I don't see you out at Imm. Prom in the early morning. Yes, I do talk with the visa agents in the queue -- often they aren't the same ones who answer the phones & emails and see people in the office. Many of them are Thai college students. No they don't get "special preference". Remember my September 15th interview with Col. Rutjapong. He stated that ALL visa agents were going to have to send someone to wait in the early morning queue for their customers. There would be no preference for visa agents. That seems to be true for everyone except for one. That G4T girl lied to you about being there at 5 am. Go check it out for yourself. Do you really expect them to tell the truth?

The fact that Chiang Mai is just one of 77 provinces with this problem is indeed a concern to the Consulates and Embassies. Why just Chiang Mai? It certainly is unequal treatment. I can assure you that the U.S. Ambassador is capable of multi-tasking and the British do get cranked when they receive sufficient outcry from their nationals.

The joint session with the Japanese wasn't the "only" thing that has happened. Another thing is that they're passing out more than 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions in the morning and not turning away people who have waiting in the queue for hours. That was a result of the emails to the consuls and the letter to the Bangkok Post.

How do they know what time to tell the applicant to come in. It is the same as it was at the airport. They have their special times.

If it is a concern to the Embassies and Consulates why have they not done some thing about it?

Why do we have to constantly remind them of it? Could be it is not that big a deal to them. Only complaints from 1 out of I thought but wasn't sure 66 provinces.

The joint session with the Japanese was to my understanding nothing new they had been doing it for a while.

As far as giving out more than 20 Queue tickets a day that is an improvement.

But it will not help if they only have time to see 17 people. Also let us not forget you yourself cited a case of some one with out a queue ticket getting taken care of.

As I said the only real improvement is the session you managed to set up but got canceled because of a bomb in Bangkok. I wonder if the Japanese are still doing it.

Also why is it that the Ex Pats Club through manly your efforts is the only foreign group in Chiang Mai doing any thing.

One other thing and I am not sure about it is that they rotate the upper management every two years. Could that be part of the problem?

Make no mistake I want to see things working better there but trying to belittle a service that speeds it up will not help and as you say the Embassies and Consulates are well aware of it. Result Nil.

Maybe if they were to approach with an attitude of we see you are overworked in Chiang Mai can we help Maybe set u a service like Pattaya where the applications are checked over by knowledgeable volunteers so when the officer gets them he knows they are right. Or some other system of helping them not one of calling them into fault.

[Lizard2010]

I can not believe all the waffling going on about the Embassy and Consulated

I had to go through 11 Pages to find my poat

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/861438-immigration-promenada-one-stop-service-v2/page-11#entry10074768

I clearly said and this is the normal procedure

Obvious you do not know the steps you have to take when talking to Countries that you have Embassy in

There is a protocol that has to be adhered too

You have to talk very diplomaticly about the problem

We can always have our Foreign Minister voice there concerns

The Country Foreign minister listens

Then it goes to the various Dept

Then all the shuffling around

We are only visiting resident here

We do not have much say

As the Old Saying Goes

Rome Was Not Built In A Day

Maybe this Topic has run its course

I am personalty sick of the knockers

Maybe a Moderator can close this down

[Mapguy]

Imm. started to require visa agents to have a POA from their clients when they moved to Prom. At that time, they said they were not going to give priority to visa agents and they were going to have to wait in the queue just like regular customers, one agent for each of their customers.

Why do I go on and on about G4T? Well, as long as they are operating and we gladly pay them and siphon money away from the legitimate visa agents, then the management of Imm. has no incentive to fix the problems. We're not allowed to speculate about the ownership or do the math about their income, but when Col. Rutjapong told me that Bangkok says it would cost nearly 300,000 baht to "fix" the on-line appointment queue and no money was available, I could only think about how long it takes G4T to bring in that amount. Not very long.

I fail to understand your logic about legitimate visa agents? I don`t have a clue who the other agents are or how they operate, do you? And I guess they must be raking it in too.

Even if that GT4 gets closed down things at immigration won`t improve, it will just mean one less agent and one less option. I thought you were against using agents not promoting them? If busy bodies do get the GT4 shut down, I don`t think they`ll get any thanks for it.

Who are you actually battling for, better services at immigration or fairness for the other agents?

Then you don't understand a lot. If you haven't yet been able to figure out why G4T exists and why they get preferential treatment, then you won't understand why their existence contributes to the current state of affairs at Promenada.

We're prohibited by the moderators from discussing much of the underlying causation in the publicly viewable portion of the forum but you apparently haven't pieced things together yet regarding behavioral incentives. Until you do, your posts should continue to contain the phrase "I don't have a clue".

(Incidentally, your questioning of other expats' motives wrt Immigration procedures makes you look ignorant and, well, pretty silly.)

Agreed! There are reasons that ThaiVisa does not permit free discussion. Mai phen rai!

What is going on has more than one motivating factor. One thing that is NOT mentioned nearly often enough is the utterly deplorable conduct of so many Westerners who show up uninformed, ill-dressed, smelly, arrogant, and plain ignorant. Glad to hear, actually, that many more sensible people who happen to be interested in TV Chiang Mai are recently showing up here to say something sensible.

Otherwise, go ahead and write your congressman or MP about the "disgraceful treatment" of their citizens in Thailand, who, in entirely too many cases, have never grown up enough to take care of themselves!

I personally believe what is going on at Promenada is utterly absurd, but as absurd (and for YEARS running) are the bizarre ignorance and behavior of some many foreigners, primarily from "Western" countries.

OH! And NancyL is no saint, but she sure as hell has balls --- which is a lot more than can be said about many whimps that post on ThaiVisa.

Cheers!

[Tywais]

Maybe a Moderator can close this down

I will not be closing it down but will start V3 at the beginning of the year.

BTW, the US doesn't have a 'Foreign Minister' we have the Secretary of State but he is not a representative of an individual country. And from what I've read here, there has been feedback from some consulates/embassies. Certainly no harm in addressing our concerns to them and within 'protocol' as they are here as representatives of our respective countries and first point of contact with issues.

[Mapguy]

Maybe a Moderator can close this down

I will not be closing it down but will start V3 at the beginning of the year.

BTW, the US doesn't have a 'Foreign Minister' we have the Secretary of State but he is not a representative of an individual country. And from what I've read here, there has been feedback from some consulates/embassies. Certainly no harm in addressing our concerns to them and within 'protocol' as they are here as representatives of our respective countries and first point of contact with issues.

Amen! And certainly in the spirit of Christmast! Except I haven''t the foggiest idea what V3 is! Some sort of advanced neo-Nazi rocket ??!!

[Tywais]

Maybe a Moderator can close this down

I will not be closing it down but will start V3 at the beginning of the year.

BTW, the US doesn't have a 'Foreign Minister' we have the Secretary of State but he is not a representative of an individual country. And from what I've read here, there has been feedback from some consulates/embassies. Certainly no harm in addressing our concerns to them and within 'protocol' as they are here as representatives of our respective countries and first point of contact with issues.

Amen! And certainly in the spirit of Christmast! Except I haven''t the foggiest idea what V3 is! Some sort of advanced neo-Nazi rocket ??!!

Nah, if you look at this topic title you will see this one is V2. Perhaps a better title would be Rev. 3. Occupational hazard using V2 or version 2 when I do software development and Rev. 2 in my engineering design. Maybe I'll just use Immigration Promenada One Stop Service 2016. Though probably within 6 months or less it will be 2016 part II.

[northernjohn]

Maybe a Moderator can close this down

I will not be closing it down but will start V3 at the beginning of the year.

BTW, the US doesn't have a 'Foreign Minister' we have the Secretary of State but he is not a representative of an individual country. And from what I've read here, there has been feedback from some consulates/embassies. Certainly no harm in addressing our concerns to them and within 'protocol' as they are here as representatives of our respective countries and first point of contact with issues.

I could be wrong but I believe the State Departments representative in a country is called an Ambassador.

Don't know about the consulates.

[cyberfarang]

NorthernJohn -- I don't see you out at Imm. Prom in the early morning. Yes, I do talk with the visa agents in the queue -- often they aren't the same ones who answer the phones & emails and see people in the office. Many of them are Thai college students. No they don't get "special preference". Remember my September 15th interview with Col. Rutjapong. He stated that ALL visa agents were going to have to send someone to wait in the early morning queue for their customers. There would be no preference for visa agents. That seems to be true for everyone except for one. That G4T girl lied to you about being there at 5 am. Go check it out for yourself. Do you really expect them to tell the truth?

The fact that Chiang Mai is just one of 77 provinces with this problem is indeed a concern to the Consulates and Embassies. Why just Chiang Mai? It certainly is unequal treatment. I can assure you that the U.S. Ambassador is capable of multi-tasking and the British do get cranked when they receive sufficient outcry from their nationals.

The joint session with the Japanese wasn't the "only" thing that has happened. Another thing is that they're passing out more than 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions in the morning and not turning away people who have waiting in the queue for hours. That was a result of the emails to the consuls and the letter to the Bangkok Post.

This becomes more confusing by the day because the maths are not adding up.

I gather on average immigration are dishing out 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions each day. But that`s not including the slots made available for visa agents. Is that right? if there are only 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions each day for people that are not agents, does that not mean there must be extra numbers reserved for the agents meaning all the agents must be getting preferential treatment? I am asking, if I turned up at immigration 3. 00 in the morning with 30 of my mates all there for retirement extensions, only 20 of us would be successful? But if I were an agent and turned up with 30 of my mates that were also agents, even on behalf of other people excluding this GT4, would we all be successful in getting retirement extensions?

I also want to ask, have you had any positive or know of anyone who has had positive responses back from the Consulates or Embassies yet?

The visa agents queue up at zero-dark-stupid with the regular customers for queue cards for retirement extensions. They all seem to arrive around 5 am and until that letter to the Bangkok Post there were some days when they didn't all get queue numbers because only 20 were distributed. It didn't matter if the people being turned away were visa agents or not.

(What part of Col. Rutjapong saying "the visa agents have to get queue numbers just like the regular customers. There will be no preference for visa agents" don't you understand?)

And to answer your other question -- yes, I most definitely have heard from people who have contacted their Consulates and Embassies and received feedback. In some cases, it's been polite "thank you for your email" and in other cases it's been much more in-depth discussion.

Why is everyone so reluctant to contact their Embassies and Consulates?

If there are 20 slots a day for 20 retirement extensions that includes agents excluding GT4, that means if GT4 is taken out of the picture there will not be enough slots to accommodate all the retirement applicants per year, according to some posts that say at least 30 slots a day are required to accommodate us all, maybe more?

Dearest Nancy, I am not deliberately arguing for arguments sake I am merely basing my replies on the information you are giving and merely using logic that I know doesn`t account for much in Thailand, but please think about it, if not careful some of us are going to be out on a limb. This is what I understand and why I think putting the pressure on to get rid of GT4 is a bad, bad, bad idea.

If as you have said immigration is now handing out more slots, how many exactly? Does this mean everyone that attends immigration early enough for their retirement extensions will get a slot for the same day and will remain that way? If so, then it means people have the choice of enduring the inconvenience at immigration for a day or choosing an agent of their choice. What`s wrong with that?

[Tywais]

Maybe a Moderator can close this down

I will not be closing it down but will start V3 at the beginning of the year.

BTW, the US doesn't have a 'Foreign Minister' we have the Secretary of State but he is not a representative of an individual country. And from what I've read here, there has been feedback from some consulates/embassies. Certainly no harm in addressing our concerns to them and within 'protocol' as they are here as representatives of our respective countries and first point of contact with issues.

I could be wrong but I believe the State Departments representative in a country is called an Ambassador.

Don't know about the consulates.

The ambassador is nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. They are direct representatives of the President. Consulates have a consulate-general.

But I believe now I'm at fault for taken this a bit off topic.

[Ace of Pop]

Even the Imo Folks think it's stupid Mrs Pop has answered the same bloody Questions for 23 years.How many Marry extension papers do they burn every year.