Teenager becomes a focus in Israel-Palestinian conflict

[webfact]

Teenager becomes a focus in Israel-Palestinian conflict
By KARIN LAUB and JOSEF FEDERMAN

JERUSALEM (AP) — The fate of a Palestinian boy seized center stage Thursday in the battle of narratives accompanying the recent burst of deadly Israeli-Palestinian violence.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas ignited an uproar in Israel after falsely claiming in a televised speech that Israelis had "summarily executed" Ahmed Manasra, when the 13-year-old actually was recovering at an Israeli hospital after he stabbed two Israelis, including a boy his own age.

Palestinians, in turn, were enraged by video showing Ahmed lying in the street, his head bloodied and his legs splayed, as bystanders curse him and shout "Die!" in Hebrew. The images, widely circulated on social media, made no mention of the preceding attack by Ahmed and his cousin Hassan, 15, who was then shot and killed by police Monday.

The case has become a lightning rod for both sides.

Israel has repeatedly accused Abbas of fomenting violence with what it says are incendiary comments.

"Now we have a new big lie. That new big lie is that Israel is executing Palestinians," Netanyahu said Thursday. Still, he said he would be "perfectly open" to meeting Abbas to address what the Israeli leader said was a wave of incitement.

Abbas, who has long argued that armed attacks on Israelis go against Palestinian interests, has denied the Israeli allegations that he is fomenting unrest. He did not immediately respond to Netanyahu's offer.

In his speech Wednesday, Abbas said Israel has engaged in excessive force and the "summary execution of our children in cold blood."

The high-level name-calling highlighted the abyss between the two leaders, at a time when prospects for a return to Israeli-Palestinian negotiations appear nil.

In the past month, eight Israelis were killed in Palestinian attacks, most of them stabbings. During the same period, 31 Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire, including 14 labeled by Israel as attackers, and the others in clashes between stone-throwers and Israeli troops.

Israel has increased security across the country in response to the unrest. On Thursday, the military said it would deploy 300 soldiers in Jerusalem to help police maintain order, guard public transportation and the city's main streets.

Both sides use social media to promote their official narratives.

Israeli officials have released security camera videos of the attacks, sometimes within minutes. The police, army, Foreign Ministry and prime minister's office cooperate, collecting clips from Palestinian websites that are seen as promoting violence or searching for Facebook posts from assailants that they say indicated they were about to commit violent acts.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Emanuel Nahshon said the strategy is to spread Israel's messages and complain to popular services about allegedly offensive comment. He said Israel persuaded Google's YouTube service and Facebook to remove several Palestinian videos.

Palestinian authorities, meanwhile, have focused on releasing amateur video appearing to show Israeli police using excessive force.

The battle also plays out in private Facebook, Twitter and Instagram accounts.

On the Palestinian side, social media play a growing role in the conflict. Palestinian media experts say the vast majority of Palestinians between the ages of 12 and 22 use social media.

For the young, social media have taken the place of political factions that were key to organizing major bouts of fighting with Israel in the past.

In this round of violence, Palestinian attacks on Israelis have largely been carried out by individuals with no ties to militant groups. Motives often remain murky, but relatives of assailants have cited as potential triggers both the pressures of life under Israeli occupation and videos seen on social media.

Israeli Facebook users, meanwhile, have been sharing a wide array of posts during the unrest, including videos on how to defend themselves against stabbers, as well as the clips of attacks on Israelis. Some Israelis accuse the media of anti-Israel bias or express anti-Arab sentiment, while others call for coexistence.

Among Palestinians, the video of the wounded Ahmed Manasra has perhaps had the biggest emotional impact.

In the video, the terrified boy is seen lying between the tracks of Jerusalem's light rail, his legs at a twisted angle after having been struck by a car in the wake of the stabbing attack.

As Israeli officers stand nearby, voices are heard — presumably those of bystanders — shouting at the boy in Hebrew and Arabic. "Just shoot this son of a bitch in the head," one man says in Hebrew. Some policemen appear to be trying to push away those yelling at the boy.

On Tuesday, the Palestinian Information Ministry posted the video on YouTube, with subtitles in English, under the title, "Ahmed Manasra — Israeli brutality exposed."

Israel responded by announcing the boy was alive and being treated at Hadassah Hospital.

On Wednesday, Israel released security camera video that appears to show the two Manasra cousins wielding knives and chasing a man through a Jewish area of east Jerusalem.

The video moves to a shot of an Israeli boy standing in a candy store, getting on his bicycle, then collapsing and falling off the bike after the stabbing.

In a final scene, Hassan is seen being confronted by two armed policemen along the light rail track. He lunges at the officers and is shot.

Abbas made the next move in a televised speech Wednesday evening.

"We will not give in to the logic of brute force and policies of occupation and aggression practiced by the Israeli government and its herds of settlers who engage in terrorism against our people and our holy places and our homes and our trees, and the summary execution of our children in cold blood, as they did with the child Ahmed Manasra and other children in Jerusalem and other places," he said.

The comments, aimed at a domestic audience, appeared to be an attempt to catch up with Palestinian public opinion; Abbas faces mounting criticism at home that he is too conciliatory toward Israel. Behind the scenes, Abbas has been urging his security commanders to clamp down on violence, saying attacks on Israelis counter Palestinian interests.

Abbas aide Saeb Erekat said Abbas' comments about Ahmed Manasra were a result of inaccurate information.

"We thought in the beginning that he was killed," Erekat said. "Then the information we had was that he is clinically dead."

There appeared to be no attempt by Abbas' office to set the record straight. Instead, it accused Israel of inciting against the Palestinian leader.

Erekat said Abbas was trying to underscore claims that Israel is wrongfully killing Palestinians being accused of carrying out attacks.

"There could have been many ways to arrest those people, but they chose to shoot in order to kill, and this is what happened in many cases," he said.

Nine human rights groups in Israel expressed concern Wednesday over what they said has been "a worrying trend to use firearms to kill Palestinians who have attacked Israelis or are suspected of such attacks."

The groups said that "politicians and senior police officers have ... openly called for the extrajudicial killing of suspects."

The U.S. has also expressed concerns that Israel may have used excessive force in subduing some of the attackers — a claim Netanyahu rejected.

He said Israel is using "exactly the kind and amount of legitimate force" that any other government faced with seemingly spontaneous stabbing attacks would use.
___

Associated Press writer Mohammed Daraghmeh in Ramallah contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-10-16

[TimmyT]

"the 13-year-old actually was recovering at an Israeli hospital after he stabbed two Israelis, including a boy his own age."

and what will happen if a 13 y o Israeli boy would go to Gaza and stab two Palestinians, including a boy of his own age?

how many minutes will he survive on the street?

this is a difference between civilization and barbarity

Edited October 16, 2015 by TimmyT

[OMGImInPattaya]

"the 13-year-old actually was recovering at an Israeli hospital after he stabbed two Israelis, including a boy his own age."

and what will happen if a 13 y o Israeli boy would go to Gaza and stab two Palestinians, including a boy of his own age?

how many minutes will he survive on the street?

this is a difference between civilization and barbarity

A Zionist by any chance?

Nice post editing there by the way but I saw the original...you should always go with your first impressions as they express your true feelings. "If I was there and had a gun I would have killed him. A dog is a dog and should be treated like one." Nice.

Edited October 16, 2015 by OMGImInPattaya

[HenryB]

"the 13-year-old actually was recovering at an Israeli hospital after he stabbed two Israelis, including a boy his own age."

and what will happen if a 13 y o Israeli boy would go to Gaza and stab two Palestinians, including a boy of his own age?

how many minutes will he survive on the street?

this is a difference between civilization and barbarity

A Zionist by any chance?

But maybe a Anti Semitic by chance

[Scott]

I suggest you keep the discussion civil and stick to the topic.

Gratuitous remarks aimed at members is baiting and off-topic and will result in suspensions.

[sendintheclowns]

Zionists, anti-semites, Third Reich..............Pass out the pointed tin hats, please.

One of the best place to follow debates on this topic is in the Guardian Newspaper.

[JingerBen]

Atrocities are being committed by both Israelis and Palestinians in this conflict.

To blame one side while overlooking the guilt of the other is either naïve or calculated propaganda.

Radical Zionists promoting the expansion of illegal settlements and Palestinians who want to destroy Israel should be seen as the devils that they are.

[konying]

Atrocities are being committed by both Israelis and Palestinians in this conflict.

To blame one side while overlooking the guilt of the other is either naïve or calculated propaganda.

Radical Zionists promoting the expansion of illegal settlements and Palestinians who want to destroy Israel should be seen as the devils that they are.

The big difference is while radical Jews try, government does not allow it, where on the other side government encourages it

[JingerBen]

Atrocities are being committed by both Israelis and Palestinians in this conflict.

To blame one side while overlooking the guilt of the other is either naïve or calculated propaganda.

Radical Zionists promoting the expansion of illegal settlements and Palestinians who want to destroy Israel should be seen as the devils that they are.

The big difference is while radical Jews try, government does not allow it, where on the other side government encourages it

Nonsense.

[Morch]

Atrocities are being committed by both Israelis and Palestinians in this conflict.

To blame one side while overlooking the guilt of the other is either naïve or calculated propaganda.

Radical Zionists promoting the expansion of illegal settlements and Palestinians who want to destroy Israel should be seen as the devils that they are.

The big difference is while radical Jews try, government does not allow it, where on the other side government encourages it

Israeli governments prevent expansion of illegal settlements? Perhaps under pending international pressure, or when local legal constraints are applied. As for the Palestinian governments, while neither is sympathetic to Israel, the Fatah controlled one is not actively calling for the destruction of Israel, and the Gaza based Hamas, is.

[JingerBen]

Atrocities are being committed by both Israelis and Palestinians in this conflict.

To blame one side while overlooking the guilt of the other is either naïve or calculated propaganda.

Radical Zionists promoting the expansion of illegal settlements and Palestinians who want to destroy Israel should be seen as the devils that they are.

The big difference is while radical Jews try, government does not allow it, where on the other side government encourages it

Israeli governments prevent expansion of illegal settlements? Perhaps under pending international pressure, or when local legal constraints are applied.

As for the Palestinian governments, while neither is sympathetic to Israel, the Fatah controlled one is not actively calling for the destruction of Israel, and the Gaza based Hamas, is.

Good fair-minded post.

But are you sure of Hamas' current position vis-a-vis Israel?

[konying]

Atrocities are being committed by both Israelis and Palestinians in this conflict.

To blame one side while overlooking the guilt of the other is either naïve or calculated propaganda.

Radical Zionists promoting the expansion of illegal settlements and Palestinians who want to destroy Israel should be seen as the devils that they are.

The big difference is while radical Jews try, government does not allow it, where on the other side government encourages it

Israeli governments prevent expansion of illegal settlements? Perhaps under pending international pressure, or when local legal constraints are applied.

As for the Palestinian governments, while neither is sympathetic to Israel, the Fatah controlled one is not actively calling for the destruction of Israel, and the Gaza based Hamas, is.

To a point yes, Israeli government does not allow or encourage individuals to take matters into their own hands.

Whatever expansion takes place, goes through the Knesset or the courts, and i am sure you are well aware of that.

Fatah is not actively calling for destruction? perhaps not in simple as that words, but they sure are encouraging and supporting violence

[Morch]

Atrocities are being committed by both Israelis and Palestinians in this conflict.

To blame one side while overlooking the guilt of the other is either naïve or calculated propaganda.

Radical Zionists promoting the expansion of illegal settlements and Palestinians who want to destroy Israel should be seen as the devils that they are.

The big difference is while radical Jews try, government does not allow it, where on the other side government encourages it

Israeli governments prevent expansion of illegal settlements? Perhaps under pending international pressure, or when local legal constraints are applied.

As for the Palestinian governments, while neither is sympathetic to Israel, the Fatah controlled one is not actively calling for the destruction of Israel, and the Gaza based Hamas, is.

Good fair-minded post.

But are you sure of Hamas' current position vis-a-vis Israel?

Short version: Yes.

Long version:

Hamas is notorious for making statements that may look contradictory. There are some reasons leading to this which are often overlooked or not given their appropriate weight. Essentially, though, there is no outright recognition of Israel as a permanent fixture, nor talk of peace (at most,an extended truce, which those familiar with Islamic terminology, isn't quite as benign a notion), the starting preconditions for any semblance of negotiations makes it a no-go anyway. Those who wish to insist that the Hamas Charter is not relevant, may do so - simply referencing what Hamas leadership actually says is indicative enough, even without it.

There were instances when Hamas made somewhat different sounds, although never going the extra mile. These were always in connection with Hamas's position within the Palestinian political system. The main issue being that the Palestinian Authority came to be under a set of agreements, some of them going against the Hamas ideology. Publicly denouncing these agreements would (and did) result with aid funds withheld, Israel receiving a certain legitimacy for anti-Palestinian moves, and certain electoral elements being put off by too harsh a tone. The other aspect got to do with whatever countries foot the bills at any given time.

Hamas statements come in different versions, depending on medium and language, with statements for local or regional consumption usually expressing more hardliner attitudes. Whatever gets posted, translated or recorded online is a drop in the bucket. There is a lot of social media, radio and TV .presence, which is often ignored. Things said to foreign delegates are not the same as appearing in demonstration speeches, things said while negotiating with the PA are not the commentary presented later, and so on.

There are more than a few internal divisions within Hamas, which sometimes result in different leaders/spokesmen releasing seemingly contradictory statements. By "divisions" it does not necessarily mean factions which are always at odds or that there are huge differences in ultimate goals (more to do with ways, means and timing). A few of the obvious division are between the military and the political wing, locality related divisions (Gaza Strip vs. West Bank), and the political wing leadership division (leaders in Gaza vs. leadership abroad). There are other, more nuanced divisions to do with clans, local politics, specific religious or command affiliations. Statements made are not always well coordinated among all, and sometimes reflect certain internal disagreements or power plays.

And this is a short version of the long version....think getting somewhat off-topic here.

[Soutpeel]

Both parties are as bad as each other

[Morch]

Atrocities are being committed by both Israelis and Palestinians in this conflict.

To blame one side while overlooking the guilt of the other is either naïve or calculated propaganda.

Radical Zionists promoting the expansion of illegal settlements and Palestinians who want to destroy Israel should be seen as the devils that they are.

The big difference is while radical Jews try, government does not allow it, where on the other side government encourages it

Israeli governments prevent expansion of illegal settlements? Perhaps under pending international pressure, or when local legal constraints are applied.

As for the Palestinian governments, while neither is sympathetic to Israel, the Fatah controlled one is not actively calling for the destruction of Israel, and the Gaza based Hamas, is.

To a point yes, Israeli government does not allow or encourage individuals to take matters into their own hands.

Whatever expansion takes place, goes through the Knesset or the courts, and i am sure you are well aware of that.

Fatah is not actively calling for destruction? perhaps not in simple as that words, but they sure are encouraging and supporting violence

Israeli governments do not actively allow or encourage individuals to take matters into their own hands, but they are also not highly keen (or successful, depends on point of view) addressing such instances. Things may not be encouraged per se, but especially with hardliner right wing parties playing a more significant role, there in a certain atmosphere which raises the likelihood of such actions.

As for settlements, not really. There are many settlements in the West Bank which are illegal even by Israeli law. These are, more oft than not, left in place after symbolic expression of displeasure, and in the long run receive state services and protection. If the Parliament and the courts were a reference to my terminology (ie "illegal settlements"), well....no one but Israel recognized their legality (and its a hotly contested issue within Israel as well). The point was that the government pushes forward a controversial policy broadly deemed illegal, with some of the legal "bypasses" applied making things worse.

No argument elements that in Fatah (not all) call for violence, some outright. The comment was made with the "destruction of Israel" version posted earlier. Top Fatah leadership calling for Israel's destruction? Unlikely, as it would jeopardize them aid funds, and blur the lines between them and political rivals, Hamas. There are some not far from Hamas views, sans the Islamic angle, but usually careful how they put things.

[Morch]

Both parties are as bad as each other

Nooo...both parties are as bad as a badger.

Time for some cursed pearls and shuteye.

[Aninquisitivemind]

Zionists, anti-semites, Third Reich..............Pass out the pointed tin hats, please.

One of the best place to follow debates on this topic is in the Guardian Newspaper.

Yeah right, or maybe Jew watch would be even more to your taste for a fair and balanced debate

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/624/the_guardian_acknowledges_a_degree_of_anti_semitism

[Jingthing]

Good news for the not executed famous terror boy.

It appears he is not quite old enough to be tried as an adult so he can't be sent to prison.

Drats! So back on the street at 20. Isn't that special ?

While Israeli law defines minors as people under 18 years of age, for the purpose of prosecution on capital crimes the age at which they are tried as adults is 14.

If he is found guilty of attempted murder before reaching the minimum age of 14, the judge will not be able to sentence him to prison, according to Israeli law. He can intern him in a youth facility, but only until age 20.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/state-faces-conundrum-in-prosecution-of-teen-terrorist/