First 1-Year Extension - Type O Based On Retirement

[Ebumbu]

Hello forum. This is my first post here, so I beg your patience with me. :-) I've lived in Thailand four years now and I consider it my home. I've been on various visas up until now, including ED and tourist.

I applied for and received a type O visa from Vientiane last month. As of this year, am 50 years old and I showed them:

• Certificate of residency
• Bank statements showing 65,000+ monthly income (from my US Internet business) going back 6 months
• Passport and photocopies of pages
• Application for type O visa
• Affidavit of income from US Embassy (which they let me keep and took a copy)

My next step is to apply for a 1-year extension for the purposes of retirement. My experience with the local office in Phuket made me feel like it might be better to do the extension in Bangkok. Is this possible? Or is it absolutely required that I do this extension at the local immigration office where I live right now?

The reason I ask is that when I originally went to the Phuket office, the Senior IO demanded to see "all pages of my bank book." I never used the bank book before and it was totally blank. He would not accept 6 months of bank statements. So, I flew to Vientiane instead, where everything was a breeze. That's what the non-Thai assistant recommended, and he was right.

I did update my bank book since then. But I've only had 65,000+ regular deposits (from USA) to my Thai bank account for the last 7-8 months. Before that, I really didn't use my Thai bank accounts much and it shows small deposits. Could this be used a a reason to decline my extension? Would going to Bangkok be a safer bet and is it allowed? I just want a low-stress and trouble-free experience, as much as possible.

I hope my description is detailed enough. I appreciate your assistance. One more thing: I believe it's perfectly fine to have an Internet based business with US clients and US employees with no actual commerce being done in Thailand. This would not be considered "work" because though I may be in Thailand, no other part of the business is. It's all virtual and based in USA. Would you agree with these statements? Is there a significant risk to doing this on a Type O visa as a "retired" person?

Thank you.

[Jingthing]

That's a lot to digest, but I will start you off.

-- If your residence in Thailand is Phuket, your ONLY option for applications for annual retirement extensions is at Phuket immigration. You have no choice.

-- Income method. 65K baht monthly.

It sounds to me that you will be using the INCOME METHOD to financially qualify for annual retirement extensions

To use this method, you MUST have a letter from the USA embassy assuming you're American.

That's in Bangkok and yes you must go to Bangkok for that but there is also the option of getting the letters during the periodic consular visits to Phuket from the USA embassy. Those letters are generally still good for SIX MONTHS, but that rule can change and some local offices may vary on that detail. Info about the dates of the consular visits can be found at the USA embassy website.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Jingthing

[oncearugge]

If you live in Phuket you will have to obtain your extension from Phuket Immigration. There is no other option.

The immigration staff rarely question Embassy income Letters /Affidavits but you should be prepared to provide evidence of your income should they ask (which of course they are entitled to do)

[Jingthing]

Yes, using the INCOME METHOD that's what you supply, the income letter from the embassy.

As far as a bank book, yes it is a good idea even if using the income method to bring that with you, and freshly updated, just in case they start asking questions about the source of your income.

As far as legality of working on retirement extensions, of course as you know, you are not allowed to work in Thailand with that status.

The question of whether doing online work that doesn't involve the Thai economy at all as you're doing is acceptable or not on retirement status ... that's one of those classic grey area questions that likely will never be definitively resolved.

It would better if you don't need to talk about that to your officer.

So don't volunteer that info unless demanded.

As far as what to tell if they ask probing questions about your income source, that's something people with recent experience at Phuket around that issue MIGHT have some advice about.

Going forward, in case the working grey area is too much stress to worry about, if you could fund a Thai bank account at 800K (properly seasoned) then any issues with the source of your income become irrelevant.

Good luck!

Edited October 17, 2015 by Jingthing

[elviajero]

• If you live in Phuket you have to do the extension there. You would need to have a Bangkok address to apply in Bangkok.
• You will need to show 800k in a Thai bank for 2 months or a certified income of 65k pm.
• You get your income certified at your countries embassy.
• You might want to keep quite that the income is from a business unless it is completely passive as you cannot work with an extension of stay based on retirement.
• The location of your customers or business or income source is not important. You can only work in Thailand with the right visa/extension of stay and a WP unless the department of labour consider your work exempt.

[Jingthing]

In the past, sometimes there have been press releases saying some local immigration office doesn't care about online work not touching on Thailand, but that comes and goes ... and bottom line, it's better if it's a don't ask / don't tell situation. But then if they ask, what do you do, lie? I wouldn't want to be in that situation.

Another point, using the income method there is no rule saying you must import that full amount monthly.

I would advice considering the 800K method if you can do it. Remember you can spend down from that account all year and only need to "top up" during each year's money seasoning period.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Jingthing

[ubonjoe]

You will need an income affidavit. See::http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/notarial-services.html#income_affidavit

Next outreach is "Friday, October 30, 2015, Phuket" from outreach schedule here. http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/consular_outreach.html

[Jingthing]

So you're in luck on the embassy outreach visit date.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

ubonjoe, do you have any current information/opinion on the working online in Thailand question?

It seems to me the OP's application is very standard except for that issue but that issue could possibly be a deal breaker for him.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Jingthing

[oncearugge]

ubonjoe, do you have any current information/opinion on the working online in Thailand question?

It seems to me the OP's application is very standard except for that issue but that issue could possibly be a deal breaker for him.

Not really, if the OP is refused, for whatever reason, an extension he still has the option of the Thai Elite visa.

[Ebumbu]

Thank you. Wow, that was fast!

Another point, using the income method there is no rule saying you must import that full amount monthly.

Really? Can I average 65k baht per month with some months much higher and some months a little lower? Or do I absolutely need to hit that mark (minimally) every month when using the income method and providing a bank book and bank statement? How far back do they check? 3 months? 6 months? A year?

I think I'm good. Do I need to bring proof of residence document with me again for extension? Wish me luck. By the way, what they say about Vientiane is true. It was totally painless.

E

Edited October 17, 2015 by Ebumbu

[Jingthing]

ubonjoe, do you have any current information/opinion on the working online in Thailand question?

It seems to me the OP's application is very standard except for that issue but that issue could possibly be a deal breaker for him.

Not really, if the OP is refused, for whatever reason, an extension he still has the option of the Thai Elite visa.

Yes.

But I obviously meant for his application using the INCOME METHOD which it's pretty clear is his intention.

I already proposed the 800K bank account method where being hard questioned about income source is much more remote.

To add a detail for the OP -- the USA embassy is not at all interested in the source of your income. You just state the amount and swear that you are being truthful. They won't ask for any proof about it either. It's THAI IMMIGRATION that you will be worried about ... probably justifiably worried.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Jingthing

[Ebumbu]

Regarding working online. Obviously, that is actually "passive income" from a "business I own" and that is "run by managers" because "I do not work!" Got it!

[Jingthing]

Regarding working online. Obviously, that is actually "passive income" from a "business I own" and that is "run by managers" because "I do not work!" Got it!

Wink wink. Nod nod. Say no more.

Do you think immigration officers know the meaning of passive income?

Edited October 17, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Thank you. Wow, that was fast!

Another point, using the income method there is no rule saying you must import that full amount monthly.

Really? Can I average 65k baht per month with some months much higher and some months a little lower? Or do I absolutely need to hit that mark (minimally) every month when using the income method and providing a bank book and bank statement? How far back do they check? 3 months? 6 months? A year?

I think I'm good. Do I need to bring proof of residence document with me again for extension? Wish me luck. By the way, what they say about Vientiane is true. It was totally painless.

E

This gets tricky.

Under the written law, there is not rule saying you need to import even ONE BAHT all year when using the income letter method.

In real life, ENFORCEMENT may vary, and they may ask to see a recent stream of transfers into Thailand.

I have no idea what Phuket is doing currently.

Another poster did mention they may require a photocopy of a valid foreign ATM card showing that you are able to access your money in Thailand.

Not logical to me as there are much better ways to transfer money into Thailand, but they're the boss.

You seem to be confused with equating what you needed for your O visa in Laos (or thought you needed) and what you will need for your annual retirement extensions. Different things.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Jingthing

[Ebumbu]

OK, I am safest showing 65k baht every month. So will endeavor to do that.

I am confused with requirements for extension vs. the original type O. What difference is there, if any, on requirements?

Edited October 17, 2015 by Ebumbu

[Jingthing]

Using the income method: Does every month absolutely need to show 65k+, or can it average 65k? I think I must meet that minimum every month or it will be rejected, right?

Can try to do 800k method next year. Right now, don't have enough.

E

Again, you definitely do not need to import the full 65K x 12 annually!

But it would be good to show a recent stream of transfers before application dates IN CASE they ask to see it.

Never volunteer stuff like that. Give them the letter. Be ready to back it up if asked.

[ubonjoe]

The embassy will want nothing but the completed income affidavit with an amount in USD on it, your passport and the $50 fee paid.

For immigration as long as your affidavit shows an income equal to 65k baht a month it will be accepted.

Phuket immigration may ask for back up proof which could be a few transfers coming into your bank account here.

[Jingthing]

OK, I am safest showing 65k baht every month. So will endeavor to do that.

I am confused with requirements for extension vs. the original type O. What difference is there, if any, on requirements?

It wouldn't hurt to have a recent stream like that before your application.

But be clear you are NOT REQUIRED to do that each month of the year.

The 65K income method is about income. It's not about requiring that the full 65K x 12 actually be IMPORTED into Thailand every year.

If people live on much less, that would be kind of stupid.

[oncearugge]

OK, I am safest showing 65k baht every month. So will endeavor to do that.

I am confused with requirements for extension vs. the original type O. What difference is there, if any, on requirements?

"◦Income from pension/social welfare of not less than 65,000 Baht per month.

The proof of such evidence is a letter from the applicant's Embassy or Consulate in Thailand to certify that the applicant receives pension or other income of not less than 65,000 Baht per month.

OR ◦A combination of the account deposite in the bank plus income (from pension or other source per yearX witha combined total of not less than 800,000 Baht."

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=service#

[Jingthing]

If you do have a currently valid USA bank ATM card, bring a copy of that as well, based on reports from Phuket perhaps they will want that. Do not give it without asking. Just have it.

[ubonjoe]

OK, I am safest showing 65k baht every month. So will endeavor to do that.

I am confused with requirements for extension vs. the original type O. What difference is there, if any, on requirements?

Immigration has different rules than an embassy or consulate.

Immigration requires a proof of income from the US embassy in your case..

[Evilbaz]

OK - what recourse do you have if the Combo method is rejected (Phuket boss told my wife last year that "next time" only 800k in bank would be accepted.?)

I always provide to Phuket Immi an Embassy certified Affidavit about pensions received + evidence of being received in Oz and transferred to LOS; a bank letter certifying in excess of the "required balance to 800k" seasoned for longer than 3 months; Kbank statement for one year copies stamped by the bank and bankbook; copies of Thai and Mastercard ATM cards and all the rest of the bumf.

I can't see what I am doing wrong except the wife has to process this while I wait downstairs as I can't climb the steps to the upper floor, particularly if it has been raining.

As usual there is no access for the disabled.

What rights of appeal do I have if denied?

I'm going 30 days early armed with Thai and Translation copies of the RTP order (to use as a last resort).

If that pr*ck Colonel is still there this is a very real possibilty.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Evilbaz

[ubonjoe]

OK - what recourse do you have if the Combo method is rejected (Phuket boss told my wife last year that "next time" only 800k in bank would be accepted.?)

I always provide to Phuket Immi an Embassy certified Affidavit about pensions received + evidence of being received in Oz and transferred to LOS; a bank letter certifying in excess of the "required balance to 800k" seasoned for longer than 3 months; Kbank statement for one year copies stamped by the bank and bankbook; copies of Thai and Mastercard ATM cards and all the rest of the bumf.

I can't see what I am doing wrong except the wife has to process this while I wait downstairs as I can't climb the steps, particularly if it has been raining.

What rights of appeal do I have if denied?

I'm going 30 days early armed with Thai and Translation copies of the RTP order (to use as a last resort).

If that pr*ck Colonel is still there this is a very real possibilty.

It is an income of 65k baht or more or 800k baht in the bank not both.

The only time you need both is if your income is below 65k baht.

[oncearugge]

OK - what recourse do you have if the Combo method is rejected (Phuket boss told my wife last year that "next time" only 800k in bank would be accepted.?)

I always provide to Phuket Immi an Embassy certified Affidavit about pensions received + evidence of being received in Oz and transferred to LOS; a bank letter certifying in excess of the "required balance to 800k" seasoned for longer than 3 months; Kbank statement for one year copies stamped by the bank and bankbook; copies of Thai and Mastercard ATM cards and all the rest of the bumf.

I can't see what I am doing wrong except the wife has to process this while I wait downstairs as I can't climb the steps, particularly if it has been raining.

What rights of appeal do I have if denied?

I'm going 30 days early armed with Thai and Translation copies of the RTP order (to use as a last resort).

If that pr*ck Colonel is still there this is a very real possibilty.

removed

Edited October 17, 2015 by oncearugge

[elviajero]

OK - what recourse do you have if the Combo method is rejected (Phuket boss told my wife last year that "next time" only 800k in bank would be accepted.?)

I always provide to Phuket Immi an Embassy certified Affidavit about pensions received + evidence of being received in Oz and transferred to LOS; a bank letter certifying in excess of the "required balance to 800k" seasoned for longer than 3 months; Kbank statement for one year copies stamped by the bank and bankbook; copies of Thai and Mastercard ATM cards and all the rest of the bumf.

I can't see what I am doing wrong except the wife has to process this while I wait downstairs as I can't climb the steps to the upper floor, particularly if it has been raining.

As usual there is no access for the disabled.

What rights of appeal do I have if denied?

I'm going 30 days early armed with Thai and Translation copies of the RTP order (to use as a last resort).

If that pr*ck Colonel is still there this is a very real possibilty.

• I think the Phuket boss may have told your wife that the money in the bank needs to be seasoned for 3 months if using the combo method.
• As long as your pension income and money in the bank (seasoned 3 months) is a combined total of 800k you shouldn't have a problem.
• The RTP order won't help you as you do not know what other orders they may be working to.
• If you need to appeal, which I'm sure you won't, you need to appeal in writing.

Edited October 17, 2015 by elviajero

[Ebumbu]

If for some unknown reason, my 1-year extension on my type-O retirement visa is not granted, can I still get a 30-day extension, like I would normally do on a tourist visa?

I'm just thinking ahead to "plan B" for worst-case scenario. Thanks.

[Evilbaz]

OK - what recourse do you have if the Combo method is rejected (Phuket boss told my wife last year that "next time" only 800k in bank would be accepted.?)

I always provide to Phuket Immi an Embassy certified Affidavit about pensions received + evidence of being received in Oz and transferred to LOS; a bank letter certifying in excess of the "required balance to 800k" seasoned for longer than 3 months; Kbank statement for one year copies stamped by the bank and bankbook; copies of Thai and Mastercard ATM cards and all the rest of the bumf.

I can't see what I am doing wrong except the wife has to process this while I wait downstairs as I can't climb the steps, particularly if it has been raining.

What rights of appeal do I have if denied?

I'm going 30 days early armed with Thai and Translation copies of the RTP order (to use as a last resort).

If that pr*ck Colonel is still there this is a very real possibilty.

It is an income of 65k baht or more or 800k baht in the bank not both.

The only time you need both is if your income is below 65k baht.

Yesss - I am well aware of that Ubonjoe.

In my case my pensions are less than 65k per month (currency devaluation you know) and I season 300k to allow for the balance required to in excess of 800k p.a.

You are usually very helpful - what are my options to appeal if necessary?

[Jingthing]

If for some unknown reason, my 1-year extension on my type-O retirement visa is not granted, can I still get a 30-day extension, like I would normally do on a tourist visa?

I'm just thinking ahead to "plan B" for worst-case scenario. Thanks.

Good question, someone will answer.

But if I were you I would be pretty confident about this as your application sounds rather solid at this point. Your only worry is if you get an overzealous questioner about source of income.

[elviajero]

If for some unknown reason, my 1-year extension on my type-O retirement visa is not granted, can I still get a 30-day extension, like I would normally do on a tourist visa?

I'm just thinking ahead to "plan B" for worst-case scenario. Thanks.

• No. You will need to leave the country on or before your current 90 day stay expires to get a new visa.
• If denied, and if necessary, they would give you an extra 7 day extension to leave.

Edited October 17, 2015 by elviajero