Enormous Shakeup Of Visa And Immigration Rules

[DFCarlson]

Barry

I can see from your replies that you are out of your depth...

I don't think so ... Barry is likely an intelligent guy (he posted his question on TV, didn't he?) but ignorant about the conditions and costs of living long term in Thailand.

Barry, you need to base yourself in Australia for a couple of years and take several extended trips to Thailand to learn what it's all about. You can easily do this on 3 x 30 day visa exempt entries or tourist visas.

Look around when you're here and ask a lot of questions, travel to different places in Thailand, and see what is available and at what cost. Only when you are comfortable with the facts you uncover can you make an intelligent decision about what's best for you.

Edited January 4, 2007 by DFCarlson

[sriracha john]

In this continued off-topic discussion saga within a "visa thread" , the fact that farangs pay 10 baht for a 5 baht songtaew ride in Pattaya cannot be overlooked.

[Lite Beer]

in thailand you need as a minimum per month 30.000 THB for basis western living,,or somebody think get happy eat everyday somtham and fried rice and live in a fanroom???

to this 30.000 you can ad up 20.000 for a not greedy girlfirend incl all costs not only direct moneysuply,and ad up 10.000 for any reserve like medical or however.

that makes you come to 60.000 for a good live or equal in minimum 1500 US$

i personal need around 2000 uS$, on a very good lifestyle.

prices in thaialnd are cheap,,,but not a 1/6,,,some things yes but most NO,

living like a monkey in the dschungle makes ion medium term nobody happy.

if you come here living on 20000 you would be lonely and thais let you feel it

dont think you can

even in tahialnd MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND

60,000 a month? I would struggle to spend that much. Me and the wife live very well on 30,000 in Samui which is well over priced. I grant you we have our own home so do not pay rent.

Every one needs are different. I do agree with you that 20,000 would be a struggle. And yes in Thailand money is everything.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

in thailand you need as a minimum per month 30.000 THB for basis western living,,or somebody think get happy eat everyday somtham and fried rice and live in a fanroom???

to this 30.000 you can ad up 20.000 for a not greedy girlfirend incl all costs not only direct moneysuply,and ad up 10.000 for any reserve like medical or however.

that makes you come to 60.000 for a good live or equal in minimum 1500 US$

i personal need around 2000 uS$, on a very good lifestyle.

prices in thaialnd are cheap,,,but not a 1/6,,,some things yes but most NO,

living like a monkey in the dschungle makes ion medium term nobody happy.

if you come here living on 20000 you would be lonely and thais let you feel it

dont think you can

even in tahialnd MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND

it all depends on where you live. I do pretty well in Chiang Mai and live in a nice place (hillside 4).

12k rent

1.5K utilities including DSL

1.5K UBC

.3K cell phone

(btw there are quite nice condo's to rent in CM for 7 to 8K a month)

That's about 15K for a base and I seem to get by fine on another 15 to 18K for food, dental checkups, petrol, clothes. Quarterly visa runs to KL.

I don't drink BTW and when a girl starts asking for money then I get a new girlfriend. There are tons here.

I think its about 1/4 the prices of the US.

Edited January 4, 2007 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[Barryz]

Barry

I can see from your replies that you are out of your depth

stay home

you will get eaten alive here

All i can say is plan to fail and fail to plan

Well, I appreciate your comments, BlackJack, but your views seem at odds with my own experience in Thailand. My first visit to Thailand was in the early 60's as a 20+ year old. Fantastic and out of this world, but I had difficulty earning a living and returned to the UK, later emigrating to Australia.

During this long interim period, living in the UK and Australia, I sort of forgot about Thailand until I returned just recently, about a year ago. The experience was almost overwhelming. The impact of these nice, warm, friendly, happy people, made me wonder what the heck I had been doing for the past 40 odd years.

[LivinLOS]

Barry

I can see from your replies that you are out of your depth

stay home

you will get eaten alive here

All i can say is plan to fail and fail to plan

Well, I appreciate your comments, BlackJack, but your views seem at odds with my own experience in Thailand. My first visit to Thailand was in the early 60's as a 20+ year old. Fantastic and out of this world, but I had difficulty earning a living and returned to the UK, later emigrating to Australia.

During this long interim period, living in the UK and Australia, I sort of forgot about Thailand until I returned just recently, about a year ago. The experience was almost overwhelming. The impact of these nice, warm, friendly, happy people, made me wonder what the heck I had been doing for the past 40 odd years.

Ahh that initial glow.. It sure burns bright, it burns hard... and it burns out.

[abdulrahman]

The way it works here is the same as anywhere else. If you want some one to make a commitment to you, you have to make a commitment to them. In the case of the Thai women from not very well off families that you are likely to meet, this means helping them shoulder their responsibilities. They may actually be a lot nicer and lower maintenance than the Thais from rich families whom you will not meet anyway. If you want something without commitment, just visit from time to time as a tourist and pay-as-you-go. Alternatively continue to enjoy the welfare state in Oz and see what your market worth is there in terms of the type of women willing to shack up with you and what their expectations are.

Agree with you,don't think he want to have a commitment with a thai lady whose salsry is well over the 20K Baht figure he thinks sufficient to live in Thailand.

On the other side,the country is full of "cheap charley's",hopefully less after the thoughening by Immigration.

[lapamita]

I don't drink BTW and when a girl starts asking for money then I get a new girlfriend. There are tons here

than good luck looking for one who not wants support or help,,i never see toons of them in 17 years.

the living expenses i have excactly ,and they well calculated

moneyincomming each month 2000 us$ ( 70.000 THB)

expenses monthly

food from supermrkets ( eat as well imported western food) thb 10.000

elctricty,water,car-costs,fuerl,reparis and retained money for newbuys thb 10.000

girlfiend all expenses ( no money over for familly or however) thb 14.000

drinks in bars,butterfly,sanukcosts,restaurants thb 15.000

medical expenses, visacosts thb 6000

sidemoney for buy new computer,tv or wahtever clothe etc. thb 5000

rental fee thb 0,00

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TOTAL 60,000 thb

and maybe 10000 p.m. for holidays,traveling abroad,retained money for bad times or hovever

TOtal 70.000

so 2000 us$ is just sufficent to keep a good lifestyle ,waht would cost you in the usa or europe about 6000-8000 us $

the prices here are in average 1/4 to 1/3 of other cuntrys

thats the fact and thats why i am here/or asia.

[lapamita]

[last but not least,,, if i would have only 20000-30000 per month(substainable incomme), i would prefer go back to homecountry and go work! than i would have better life than here,not so much sanuk but more secure and higher livingstandards.

it is a dream that you can live in the mediumterm on 20000 thb in thailand...

its just a dream...............

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I don't drink BTW and when a girl starts asking for money then I get a new girlfriend. There are tons here

than good luck looking for one who not wants support or help,,i never see toons of them in 17 years.

I think it helps to not be fat and ugly and having some smarts works too. Lots of Thai girls will be in relationships without money. I found quite few will give you the sweetness for english lessons and some free meals. If after a few months they think they are entitled to whatever then you know what their motivation is and why they are interested in you. Just send them packing. Mai Pen Lai

[Barryz]

Barry

I can see from your replies that you are out of your depth...

I don't think so ... Barry is likely an intelligent guy (he posted his question on TV, didn't he?) but ignorant about the conditions and costs of living long term in Thailand.

Barry, you need to base yourself in Australia for a couple of years and take several extended trips to Thailand to learn what it's all about. You can easily do this on 3 x 30 day visa exempt entries or tourist visas.

Look around when you're here and ask a lot of questions, travel to different places in Thailand, and see what is available and at what cost. Only when you are comfortable with the facts you uncover can you make an intelligent decision about what's best for you.

DFCarlson,

Thank you for your kind comments. Of course I will look around. One month visas for Australians are automatic on entry. The cost of the return airfare to Bangkok is less than $1000 (with China Airlines). I've already visited Bangkok, Khanchanaburi, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Ayuddhya, Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui. But I haven't visited townships off the beaten track, yet. All the places I've been to are tourist ridden places where I imagine the cost of living is distorted.

[lapamita]

I don't drink BTW and when a girl starts asking for money then I get a new girlfriend. There are tons here

than good luck looking for one who not wants support or help,,i never see toons of them in 17 years.

I think it helps to not be fat and ugly and having some smarts works too. Lots of Thai girls will be in relationships without money. I found quite few will give you the sweetness for english lessons and some free meals. If after a few months they think they are entitled to whatever then you know what their motivation is and why they are interested in you. Just send them packing. Mai Pen Lai

you are super

you ever heard about the word "exploiation"?????

so you never talk about grilfriend, you are just talking about free sex Or just for a meal?),,because girlfriend mean as well supporting in good an d bad times,,,,most thais are not rich,, and when the day comes,,you say bye bye.................

i am not fat or ugly or however , but i not exploiate girls,,, even in europe girlfirend s who worked in regualr jobs i sometime support due to lack of incomming for my livingstandard ( most wehen it comes to restaurants or holidays) ,,,but i never was thinking about packing when something come,as long its inline within nrmal life

sorry,but i dont have any sympathie with you ( even when i think most thais are gredy if rich or poor and we are the ATM)

[friend2]

Ahh that initial glow.. It sure burns bright, it burns hard... and it burns out.

Spot on

Sometimes I wish I could live more like a Thai. (No, honestly)

Think how much money you would save !

Only eat thaifood, no ubc, no DSL,

Going out partying with your friends drinking lao kao...

Unfortunately I can't do that, cause I don't want to.

Part of the joy of being here, is the fact that I can indulge myself with

habits from home whenever I feel like it.

I do have some bounderies though, I think it's called a wife

If I couldn't do that, I think I wouldn't stay.

If you have to "cheap charly" your way thru life here, better do it in your

home country.

[Arkady]

I don't drink BTW and when a girl starts asking for money then I get a new girlfriend. There are tons here

than good luck looking for one who not wants support or help,,i never see toons of them in 17 years.

I think it helps to not be fat and ugly and having some smarts works too. Lots of Thai girls will be in relationships without money. I found quite few will give you the sweetness for english lessons and some free meals. If after a few months they think they are entitled to whatever then you know what their motivation is and why they are interested in you. Just send them packing. Mai Pen Lai

you are super

you ever heard about the word "exploiation"?????

so you never talk about grilfriend, you are just talking about free sex Or just for a meal?),,because girlfriend mean as well supporting in good an d bad times,,,,most thais are not rich,, and when the day comes,,you say bye bye.................

i am not fat or ugly or however , but i not exploiate girls,,, even in europe girlfirend s who worked in regualr jobs i sometime support due to lack of incomming for my livingstandard ( most wehen it comes to restaurants or holidays) ,,,but i never was thinking about packing when something come,as long its inline within nrmal life

sorry,but i dont have any sympathie with you ( even when i think most thais are gredy if rich or poor and we are the ATM)

Despite the spelling I think you've hit the nail on the head. I am sure that the girls are also more than ready to move on when they find out what a cheap charlie you are and that you will not try to help them, even if they have genuine problems.

[BlackJack]

Barry

I can see from your replies that you are out of your depth

stay home

you will get eaten alive here

All i can say is plan to fail and fail to plan

Well, I appreciate your comments, BlackJack, but your views seem at odds with my own experience in Thailand. My first visit to Thailand was in the early 60's as a 20+ year old. Fantastic and out of this world, but I had difficulty earning a living and returned to the UK, later emigrating to Australia.

During this long interim period, living in the UK and Australia, I sort of forgot about Thailand until I returned just recently, about a year ago. The experience was almost overwhelming. The impact of these nice, warm, friendly, happy people, made me wonder what the heck I had been doing for the past 40 odd years.

hey come on over

live the dream

what the heck

if it doesnt work out or the GF gets it all you can always go back to OZ and get the pension right?

Go for it

Also keep in the back of your mind that immigration may one day want to check your bank book and your expenditure

If it shows 10K or 20K PM then you are way under the 65K they request per month

[keenok]

barryz , i would have to say 10,000 is not enough(but not imposible ).however take no notice of guys who say you need 60-70000 baht a month. be aware that some people in thailand like to live in ivory towers.ie. living in expensive farang areas,frequenting expensive farang bars/restaurants, mixing with other wealthy farang, watching farang t.v. programmes ,(i.e .cant live without ubc)driving round in expensive cars, cant live with out their expensive live in bar girls, etcetera etcetera etcetara. every body has different needs and different budgets and thats entirely up to each individual. only you will know what you need to have a happy life over here . if you enjoy living here because you LIKE THAILAND,there is no need for a huge budget.just my opinion

[Barryz]

Despite the spelling I think you've hit the nail on the head. I am sure that the girls are also more than ready to move on when they find out what a cheap charlie you are and that you will not try to help them, even if they have genuine problems.

So basically, what you're saying is that any farang with an income no more than 20,000 Baht a month, considerably higher than the average wage in Thailand, is a cheap Charlie and will not be able to keep a Thai girlfriend. Is that correct?

Edited January 4, 2007 by Barryz

[Barryz]

barryz , i would have to say 10,000 is not enough(but not imposible ).however take no notice of guys who say you need 60-70000 baht a month. be aware that some people in thailand like to live in ivory towers.ie. living in expensive farang areas,frequenting expensive farang bars/restaurants, mixing with other wealthy farang, watching farang t.v. programmes ,(i.e .cant live without ubc)driving round in expensive cars, cant live with out their expensive live in bar girls, etcetera etcetera etcetara. every body has different needs and different budgets and thats entirely up to each individual. only you will know what you need to have a happy life over here . if you enjoy living here because you LIKE THAILAND,there is no need for a huge budget.just my opinion

Well expressed, Keenok. That makes sense to me. The 1/6th Australian cost of living does not apply to everything. Computers are not 1/6th the cost, but pirated DVDs are. Four star hotels are not 1/6th the cost, but taxi fares are. Beer is not 1/6th the cost, but a bacon and egg breakfast might be, and so on.

I'm a bit embarrassed to express this in public, but a night spent in a hotel with a bar girl also appears to be 1/6th the cost .

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I don't drink BTW and when a girl starts asking for money then I get a new girlfriend. There are tons here

than good luck looking for one who not wants support or help,,i never see toons of them in 17 years.

I think it helps to not be fat and ugly and having some smarts works too. Lots of Thai girls will be in relationships without money. I found quite few will give you the sweetness for english lessons and some free meals. If after a few months they think they are entitled to whatever then you know what their motivation is and why they are interested in you. Just send them packing. Mai Pen Lai

you are super

you ever heard about the word "exploiation"?????

so you never talk about grilfriend, you are just talking about free sex Or just for a meal?),,because girlfriend mean as well supporting in good an d bad times,,,,most thais are not rich,, and when the day comes,,you say bye bye.................

i am not fat or ugly or however , but i not exploiate girls,,, even in europe girlfirend s who worked in regualr jobs i sometime support due to lack of incomming for my livingstandard ( most wehen it comes to restaurants or holidays) ,,,but i never was thinking about packing when something come,as long its inline within nrmal life

sorry,but i dont have any sympathie with you ( even when i think most thais are gredy if rich or poor and we are the ATM)

Despite the spelling I think you've hit the nail on the head. I am sure that the girls are also more than ready to move on when they find out what a cheap charlie you are and that you will not try to help them, even if they have genuine problems.

thais can get by fine on their 8 to 10k baht a month salaries. Typical of the girls I have dated. Maybe its you that is desperate for love and acceptance that is the exploited party. Keep on with your rationalization and delusion. It's your money after all. Spend it how you wish.

[friend2]

So basically, what you're saying is that any farang with an income of less than 20,000 Baht a month, considerably higher than the average wage in Thailand, is a cheap Charlie and will not be able to keep a Thai girlfriend. Is that correct?

I don't think it has solely to do with how much money you earn, wether you can stay together

or not, with a Thai lady.

You do however need some kinda income to be able to live.

Nobody can tell you how much that should be.

It's all up to the individual/s.

But do keep in mind, it is very difficult to find a Thai (male or female), that aren't obsessed

with their financial status.

If you can't live up to their expectation in that regard, you might have problems in a relation ship.

That doesn't mean you should blindly "invest" all your hard earned money just to please her.

It should be a "give and get" relation ship if healthy.

Thais really worship money.

Perhaps rightfully so, as they can't lean back on any welfare, other than what you can provide.

Edited January 4, 2007 by friend2

[tropo]

It costs me 35 - 36K (depends on electric useage) per month for rent, phone (land line), Internet (2 services), maid cleaning (once a week), laundry, water, electricity, UBC cable and motorcycle rental. My apartment is a modest by Australian standards.

Not included in my total: Food, medicine, petrol (about 150 per week) and entertainment.

This is living with a girlfriend.

[Barryz]

It costs me 35 - 36K (depends on electric useage) per month for rent, phone (land line), Internet (2 services), maid cleaning (once a week), laundry, water, electricity, UBC cable and motorcycle rental. My apartment is a modest by Australian standards.

Not included in my total: Food, medicine, petrol (about 150 per week) and entertainment.

This is living with a girlfriend.

That sounds a lot to me, Tropo, considering those exclusions. Seems you are probably spending around 40k a month or more. If we consider 1/6th the cost of things in Australia is a bit of an exaggeration and 1/4 the cost, on average, is more like it, we're looking at an actual expenditure of A$17-18,000 per year (which I can afford - I'm not a complete pauper ) and an equivalent expenditure in Australia of around A$65-70,000 per annum, yet you say your apartment is modest by Australian standards. I would expect to live in a very nice apartment in Australia on A$70,000 a year. For me, part of the attraction of moving to Thailand is the expectation that whatever my wealth is in Australia, it'll be multiplied by at least 4 in Thailand, in terms of what that money can buy.

Are you living in one of the major tourist areas where almost everything is more expensive?

[tropo]

It costs me 35 - 36K (depends on electric useage) per month for rent, phone (land line), Internet (2 services), maid cleaning (once a week), laundry, water, electricity, UBC cable and motorcycle rental. My apartment is a modest by Australian standards.

Not included in my total: Food, medicine, petrol (about 150 per week) and entertainment.

This is living with a girlfriend.

That sounds a lot to me, Tropo, considering those exclusions. Seems you are probably spending around 40k a month or more. If we consider 1/6th the cost of things in Australia is a bit of an exaggeration and 1/4 the cost, on average, is more like it, we're looking at an actual expenditure of A$17-18,000 per year (which I can afford - I'm not a complete pauper ) and an equivalent expenditure in Australia of around A$65-70,000 per annum, yet you say your apartment is modest by Australian standards. I would expect to live in a very nice apartment in Australia on A$70,000 a year. For me, part of the attraction of moving to Thailand is the expectation that whatever my wealth is in Australia, it'll be multiplied by at least 4 in Thailand, in terms of what that money can buy.

Are you living in one of the major tourist areas where almost everything is more expensive?

I'm living in Pattaya.

A large part of that breakdown is rent of 25,000 a month. In addition to the above expenses I spend on average an additional 1000 a day if I'm watching my spending...usually a lot more, but I do eat out at least once a day and when I'm shopping for food I'm buying a lot of imported products. Most items in my shopping basket would probably cost more than the corresponding items in Australia...so you can add a minimum of 30,000 a month to my 35,000. I doubt I'd do a month under 65K in total not including visa runs and visa extensions, which now includes flying to Malaysia. In round figures I'm spending about AUD $550 a week.

I left Australia 3 years ago where I rented an absolute beach front apartment in Surfers Paradise for about the same rent as I pay here.

There is no way that a lifestyle here would cost 1/6th of that in Australia unless you were living a very meagre existance, one I could never live. I agree with you, there isn't any point to move to Thailand unless you can do better, and if I'd had a crystal ball before I left, I would have stayed put.

As they say, the grass is always greener.

Edited January 5, 2007 by tropo

[Lite Beer]

Barry . You can rent somewhere nice for 10,000 a month. Keep away from the imported food. Stay away from Farang bars. Yes you can live well pretty cheap.

I eat out every day for 30 Baht in a Thai restaraunt.

All depends what you want to do.

[Barryz]

I'm living in Pattaya.

A large part of that breakdown is rent of 25,000 a month. In addition to the above expenses I spend on average an additional 1000 a day if I'm watching my spending...usually a lot more, but I do eat out at least once a day and when I'm shopping for food I'm buying a lot of imported products. Most items in my shopping basket would probably cost more than the corresponding items in Australia...so you can add a minimum of 30,000 a month to my 35,000. I doubt I'd do a month under 65K in total not including visa runs and visa extensions, which now includes flying to Malaysia. In round figures I'm spending about AUD $550 a week.

I left Australia 3 years ago where I rented an absolute beach front apartment in Surfers Paradise for about the same rent as I pay here.

There is no way that a lifestyle here would cost 1/6th of that in Australia unless you were living a very meagre existance, one I could never live. I agree with you, there isn't any point to move to Thailand unless you can do better, and if I'd had a crystal ball before I left, I would have stayed put.

As they say, the grass is always greener.

Thanks for the explanation. I would expect a place like Pattaya to be much more expensive than other places in Thailand more off the beaten track. It seems that you're spending A$28-30,000 a year. What do you estimate your current lifestyle, with same girl friend, would cost you in Australia?

I take it you are still making visa runs after 3 years because you are not at retirement age. As a retiree with my 800k in a Thai bank, I would not have that problem, would I?

[Barryz]

Barry . You can rent somewhere nice for 10,000 a month. Keep away from the imported food. Stay away from Farang bars. Yes you can live well pretty cheap.

I eat out every day for 30 Baht in a Thai restaraunt.

All depends what you want to do.

That's what I like to hear . I could probably keep my weight down on 30 baht meals, as well.

[LivinLOS]

And after a month of eating rice and noodles.. You will crave a nice juicy imported steak..

I think troppo has a pretty realistic set of normal life costs there.. Expect min 40k to live in a way I would consider acceptable, by 60 its got some fun and beer budget. I spend multiples of that but enjoy a lifestyle that would be very hard to achieve back in the west and so I see it as value for money rather than cheap.

[LivinLOS]

The andaman post article is clear and well written IMO.. Its not a party budget he lists rent at 6000 baht per month and total wife / GF spending money is 4000 baht per month, so we are not talking someone going nuts in bars..

Even so his budget is 48k baht per month and even that doesnt have unforseen costs listed IIRC. He doesnt own a car. Theres nothing in there for hobbies interests like golf or sailing or even simple pastimes.. Even if your not a barfly I assume your not just going to watch the rice grow ??? To me coming to Thailand was about improving my lifestyle not finding somewhere to eek out the cheapest existence I could.

Read from Page 22 here http://andamanpost.com/ap25.html

There is a tiny half page in the next issue but covers nothing about finance only mail and lifestyle not money.

[tropo]

And after a month of eating rice and noodles.. You will crave a nice juicy imported steak..

I think troppo has a pretty realistic set of normal life costs there.. Expect min 40k to live in a way I would consider acceptable, by 60 its got some fun and beer budget. I spend multiples of that but enjoy a lifestyle that would be very hard to achieve back in the west and so I see it as value for money rather than cheap.

Yes LivinLOS, that's exactly how I see it. I spend quite a bit, but that gets me a lot more for my money. In Pattaya I can eat out with my girl in nice restaurants once or twice a day no problems...she's no good cooking and I hate cooking myself.

BarryZ, the reason why I live in Pattaya is because I have access to all the foreign food and shops that come with the territory. Sure, I could live a spartan existence elsewhere (even here actually), but my attitude is that, as you said before, I want to live better here than at home and I had already set high standards back there.

To be honest, it costs me more to live here with my girl than back at home single. Girls back at home usually have an income and don't require any support.

Regarding visa runs, I'm paying for 2. I'm under retirement age and she's a Filipino who requires the same visas as I do. It works out to be quite a bit over a year.

This year so far:

5 border runs at 3200 a pop = 16,000 (she doesn't need a Cambodian visa so it saves 1000 on every visa run)

Penang tourist visas once for both of us (including flights, hotel) = 30,000 ...(I made a vacation out of it and spend a lot more than this).

A trip to Phenom Penh = 9,500....just flights alone....10,500 with transport to BKK airport.

2 visa extension each (will be this month) at Immigration = 7,600

That's 64K just for our visa requirements since February 17, 2006. We also flew to the Philippines in May which wasn't necessary, but it saved us one visa run....add another 3200 for a grand total of 66,200 for the year so far.

I'm learning cheaper ways as a result of reading this forum....I'm still a newbie here.

We're going to try out Brazil sometime later this year. Get this: In Brazil I get a free 90 days stamp on arrival, renewable in country for a further 90 days. My Filipino girl gets a 180 day stamp free (no shit!).

Edited January 5, 2007 by tropo

[keenok]

And after a month of eating rice and noodles.. You will crave a nice juicy imported steak..

I think troppo has a pretty realistic set of normal life costs there.. Expect min 40k to live in a way I would consider acceptable, by 60 its got some fun and beer budget. I spend multiples of that but enjoy a lifestyle that would be very hard to achieve back in the west and so I see it as value for money rather than cheap.

take note barry. yet another post from a rich farang telling you need x amount of dollars 'to live in a way THEY would find acceptable. im not knocking them,simply pointing out many many farang live here on much less and still have happy lives.