National Park Experience

[DeaconJohn]

Another downside to the official two-tier price policy is that it sends a message to all Thais.

If the government does it, why can't we?

[kaorop]

If I really want to go somewhere, I don't mind if it costs me 100 baht. I have been to parks where they didn't charge extra but I don't expect that to happen every time. If you don't want to pay, simply don't go to National Parks. One less tourist is no big deal as the parks are overcrowded during the holidays anyway.

Sometimes its 400

and

Yes because the average retired farang needs to go during the holidays?

Okay international tourist pay more but expats? its just being discriminatory turds,

there's bucket loads of much wealthier Thais tourists running around in bm's, merc's and fortunas than farang.

Grandpa with the 20 yr old 2 stroke aint riding up no hill to see a few trees.

Edited October 27, 2015 by kaorop

[cooper2111]

I'm with the op here 100% and congrat you sir on turning your back. I would have done the same.

It's a basic question of principle no Thai will ever understand and those sycophantic do-gooders here that quote lame excuses of taxes and "the" ability to aid the environment are in a pseudo place i will never join.

[FolkGuitar]

I'm with the op here 100% and congrat you sir on turning your back. I would have done the same.

It's a basic question of principle no Thai will ever understand and those sycophantic do-gooders here that quote lame excuses of taxes and "the" ability to aid the environment are in a pseudo place i will never join.

Taxes are a 'lame' excuse? Where do you suppose that the money to maintain the parks comes from? Are you paying the workers there to maintain the trails and clean up the trash? Did they ask YOU to donate any? I know they didn't ask me... EXCEPT when I was working and paying Thai taxes. And then I paid the same entry fee as the Thais. TNSTAAFL.

Judging from your 101st Airborne Division patch, I'll assume you are American. Do you realize that in America Senior Citizens are eligible for a LIFETIME PASS to over 2,000 national parks and attractions for just $10. Younger folks will have to pay from $17 to $29 EVERY TIME just to enter the parks. Isn't this Age Discrimination a terrible thing too? And in America, no less! In 2012 the entry fees to some of Thailand's most popular parks rose by 25% for foreigners and 150% for Thais. I wonder if the Thais went crying to their mommies that the government was being nicer to farang than to Thais? Thirty dollars to enter Yellowstone, and some farang bitch about paying $3... It's so ridiculous it makes me squint.

[anon467848]

The boards displaying entrance fees for National Parks should have pricing for Tourists, not Foreigners. If somebody shows their 5 year driving licence then they are obviously not a tourist. I know, way too logical for Thailand.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Thought the Thai Driver License you pay same guess not TIT

I wonder if, instead of a Thai Driver's License, you had shown a Thai Work Permit? As a worker in Thailand, you pay Thai taxes. As a retired expat you don't. I can understand the desire to charge more to those who don't contribute to the upkeep of the park. When I had my business here in Chiang Mai, I would always bring my Work Permit booklet with me when we went to National Parks. Always paid the same rate as the Thais. Never any questions about it.

It's the same as a Resident Fishing License or Resident Hunting License being much less expensive than the Non-Resident ones, sometimes hundreds of dollars less. Or charging a higher tuition for classes in a state-run educational facility to someone from out of state. These are normal charges in most countries, but for some reason, folks here think that there is something unusual about them. If you help pay for the maintenance of the parks through taxes, you 'shouldn't' have to pay. If you do, then something is indeed wrong with the system. But just showing a Drivers License doesn't prove you are contributing to the system. It only means you live here.

People who live here pay tax on nearly everything they buy, so it's not true to say they don't contribute. I also pay income tax and business tax but as far as I see the rates are for Thais or foreigners, with no exceptions now. The post about Doi Inthanon very clearly shows a sign that says "not Thai". It hasn't been specifically dealt with here, but my impression is that showing a work permit no longer counts.

[curtklay]

In 2012 the entry fees to some of Thailand's most popular parks rose by 25% for foreigners and 150% for Thais.

Yes, but the prior Thai fee was 40 baht while the foreigner fee was 400 baht. That gives a more accurate perspective than the percentages.

Sorry, but no matter how you rationalize it, charging non-Thais 10 times more is just plain offensive.

[arunsakda]

Though unfortunate 10x pricing is official policy. I'm sorry but any Alien who pressures a NP employee to enter at the Thai price unfairly asks them to be deficient in their duties, defraud the State, and would constitute just another form of favoritism or corruption that most rational people abhour so much. For now better to "vote with ones' feet" or protest though official channels. This is not a racist policy, it is a nationalistic or nativist policy. Any Farang looking person who presents a Thai passport or National ID will get the Thai price. For those who say "Farang have money, and can (or should) pay more", that IS racist.

There is a rational economic argument that can be made for asking visitors pay more to enter NPs but not when we have people working for years, some paying more tax than some Thais pay in a lifetime. As for ripping off the tourists In Hawaii and Guam tourists are not so much charged more as is there is a often a "local" discount. (Locals free at Hanauma Bay) It is not a racist policy as one only need to show a local Driving license to get the discount. That is very easy to get even if you live there for a short period of time. On Guam many restaurants add a 10 percent service charge to deal with the issue of Asian tourists who don't leave tips, which they deduct for locals (who usually tip more than 10% anyway ).

"Price Discrimination" is a subject of interest in economics that goes well beyond these (senior, child, military local, Ladies night promos etc.) discounts.

In the US many of these policies have been challenged before courts with little success. Latest I have been hearing about is "Dry Cleaning Discrimination" against ladies wear and "metrosexuals" with fancy imported dress shirts.

https://reason.com/archives/2014/04/09/obama-addresses-dry-cleaning-gender-gap

Edited October 27, 2015 by arunsakda

[puukao]

30% of african-american youths are unemployed in USA.......should we not all be just as mad over this??

NOPE....we all get all made over like 30 baht...

problems of the top 5%

[Puwa]

I try not to let it bother me, but take it as an instructive reminder of the nature of the society I'm living in.

[asdecas]

Not this old moan yet again!

That said, the photo in the OP's post indicates, on the surface at least, that discrimination is not all one way: in Thai, on the left, the charge for a 'four-wheeled motor vehicle' is 100 baht. The charge for what is stated on the right in English simply as 'vehicles' is, however, only 30 baht.

[jacko45k]

I dislike this policy too and avoid National Parks for that reason. I have managed to get Thai price to enter some of the attractions around Pattaya, like the Zoo, but haven't done a National Park for a long time.

It does seem like 'cutting off one's nose to spite one's face' and plenty will say it isn't much money blah blah, but I feel strongly that I should not be discriminated against. Anyhow, I will go out to a GoGo tonight where they do not allow Indians and Thais in...........

Edited October 28, 2015 by jacko45k

[Thailand]

We simply vote with our feet and walk away.

When we have guests we point them in the direction of a friendly travel agent who can take them to all the attractions that are overpriced for foreign visitors but nevertheless packaged together are of a reasonable price.

We tell them we will not be going and why and it is their choice to go or not.

[Andyfez]

Yes, I had a similar problem in Kanchanaburi two weeks ago.

I showed my driving licence, but they said I had to pay.

It's embarrassing.

It's not so much the price. It's the fact that with a car full of Thais, I'm singled out to be 'mugged' by these people.

[hml367]

People making posts about US National Parks fees are mostly wrong in this thread. They should check their facts for current fees before posting something they may have experienced in the past or they are just wrong with they think are the fees.

Each state in the US has their own fee schedule for their State Parks, as well as County Parks may have their own fee schedule.

Edited October 28, 2015 by hml367

[TheKnave]

Not this old moan yet again!

That said, the photo in the OP's post indicates, on the surface at least, that discrimination is not all one way: in Thai, on the left, the charge for a 'four-wheeled motor vehicle' is 100 baht. The charge for what is stated on the right in English simply as 'vehicles' is, however, only 30 baht.

Better crack open that Thai phrasebook again...four-wheeled, 'si lor', are priced at 30 baht. 'Hok lor' (six wheeled) are shown as 100 baht, in Thai, but not listed in English,probably because foreigners are not expected to show up in heavy-duty trucks...

I hate when I fall on my face while showing off...

[smileplur]

Not this old moan yet again!

That said, the photo in the OP's post indicates, on the surface at least, that discrimination is not all one way: in Thai, on the left, the charge for a 'four-wheeled motor vehicle' is 100 baht. The charge for what is stated on the right in English simply as 'vehicles' is, however, only 30 baht.

I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but I really do think you should go back and 'read' the sign again. Maybe you should brush up on your Thai reading skills. I am not sure. Maybe you were just skimming through. Vehicles with 4 wheels are charged 30 baht. Vehicles with 6 wheels are charged 100 baht. Motorcycles are charged 20 baht. It is the same. I don't think they would let a foreigner driving a large truck into the park without paying the appropriate fee. I think they simply didn't list it because the possibility of it happening is remote.

[Elfin]

I went to Kho Sumed last week with my Thai family and friends. They paid 20 Baht to get into the NP which led to the beach and I had to pay 200 Baht! I gave the officer a mouthful about the discrimatory and racist policies that his department imposes on non-Thais, but also acknowledged that he was just following orders.My rels felt a little embarrassed and apologised to me for the discrimination.

This was after paying 20 Baht "wharf tax" when we got off the ferry and 10 baht to use the toilet at the pier.

I know the value of the fees is not much by western standards-it is the principle of double pricing that annoys me.

[headtrip]

Having visited many National Parks in Thailand, I think you are using the wrong logic to justify pricing the parks the same for Thai and for foreigners. Thais should have the same right to visit the parks the same as foreigners, but if everyone paid the "Thai" price then there would not be enough money to maintain the parks and they would be rundown and not very desirable to foreigners anyway. The other side is if all Thai had to pay the "Farang" price, then most Thais could not afford to visit the park and they would become an "Elitist" enclave for only the wealthy (comparatively speaking). Dual pricing systems absolutely exist in the USA. I live in California and you can get discounts to many Attractions by having a local drivers license whereas you would have to pay full price if you don't and I do not see any difference between that and the pricing at Thai NPs.

I have a Thai fiancee and I have traveled to many national parks with her family paying the Thai price because we were all together and no Thai park ranger can out talk my fiancee or her sisters. So there are ways to work the system, but in general I just want to make sure the parks are well protected and cared for and the higher price should not be a burden for either the Thai or others to enjoy.

[maingmoom]

This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem.

Of course it's a Thai problem. Were in Thailand

[malt25]

It is what it is....... get over it !

[Bredbury Blue]

Visited a lot of National Parks around the country over the past few years and the policy has definitely changed. Whereas before showing my work permit might get me the same price as my thai family, not anymore. I've been charged b100, b200 or b400 depending on the Park. No amount of arguing by the wife changes the price now; the officials merely bring out their official directive.

Dual pricing is clearly wrong on so many levels but do not expect it to change. It therefore becomes a personal choice of do you want to pay and visit or not. I pay and visit.

[GarryP]

They have no respect for the environment at the beach so I imagine it would be similar in the parks.

Your presumption is true.

The reason I don't visit Thai national parks anymore is not the entrance fee but my bleeding heart seeing how unawarely and disrespectfully most Thais use to treat their national heritages.

Rather like the American father who, while on vacation with his kids in Yellowstone National Park, carved his name into the wooden railing over one of the scenic vistas... Maybe the Austrian climbers who left their trash on a ledge while climbing in the Tyrol. Or the Chinese family who used a marking pen to write their names on a famous Shrine in Japan. Perhaps it's closer to the UK girls who entered the Chiang Mai temple wearing bikinis. Or maybe it was the French couple vacationing in the Maldives, and threw their empty plastic water bottles into the sea next to their bungalow. Could it be the German guy who decided that the ancient stone shrine he passed while trekking was really an outhouse? Or maybe it was .....

Fill in which ever nationality you'd like, then go and blame Thais for doing the same thing. Everybody is perfect except the Thais. Certainly YOUR countrymen would never behave like that...

I really wonder why some of you live here.You seem to dislike just about everything about Thailand and its people.

I don't think anyone would dispute that ignorant foreigners abound. However, the "wind down the window and throw out the garbage" mentality seems to be much more pervasive in the Thai population.

[LivinLOS]

This is not unique to Thailand, many countries outside the Western world have this policy. India, Costa Rica, the list goes on. Don't see it as a Thai problem.

It is done to the tourists in Hawaii as well.

I find it hard to believe that a non native resident of Hawaii, one with a local issued state ID, is charged more based on their skin color and race.

No one really has a problem with residents v tourist prices for attractions. The problem is when the resident is defined by skin color alone (my Khmer ex who couldnt speak one word of Thai was routinely given the Thai price) not based on residency but based on race.

The large majority of resident expats do NOT contribute to the upkeep nor maintenance of the parks. Why should we get to pay as little for entry as those who do?

Granted, the sign shouldn't read "Correct Skin Color Required," but with just a little bit of thought, we really do understand what is trying to be done here... unless one is really paranoid that the Thais are out to fleece foreigners. Personally, I don't think that's the case. If we want to play, we need to pay. Either though taxes or through higher entry fees.

Ahh that old canard... "Farangs dont pay tax'..

Your aware I assume that fully 50% of the thai tax revenue is based on consumption taxes ?? That Thailands income taxation is notoriously weak for the powerful and even slightly wealthy.

So as taxation comes in consumption and import taxes.. Anyone who spends multiple of What Thais spend monthly, actually pays more 'tax' than Thais do.. How much of that BMW price was tax ?? Or your last bottle of wine ?? Or your last craft beer ??

The myth that westerners here dont contribute to the taxation system is precisely that faulty logic and a myth.

[Isaanfreak]

Hi to all. My question is: What price you pay if you have a thai passport? /as a falang/ My wife thinks that wouldn't matter....any thoughts?

[LivinLOS]

Hi to all. My question is: What price you pay if you have a thai passport? /as a falang/ My wife thinks that wouldn't matter....any thoughts?

If a full Thai citizen with passport you would be Thai.. They couldnt charge more simply on look.

The recent case of the man born in Thailand, to 2 farang parents.. Grown up his whole life here, fluent thai obviously and Thai ID as a PR holder.. He was charged the farang price. Because he wasnt Thai.

[richardrb]

Personally I prefer to look at it as a discount for Thai people so they can afford to enjoy the parks and tourist attractions. In Hawaii locals always get a discount for the same reason, Hawaii (and Thailand) rely on profit from visitors but locals can't really afford the high rates charged for things like Parks, museums, golf, etc. . One big difference is that the local price isn't published or shown on signs, so tourists and visitors don't feel cheated.

Most foreigners in Thailand can afford the higher rates while a Thai family getting by on minimum wage would be pressed to take their whole family. What's minimum wage now, 200 baht a day?

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I think it's fine.

Richard in Krabi (part time).

[richardrb]

What happens when families of Thai and non Thai try to enter national parks? Our son is 3 so no Thai ID. He looks foreign so what do they charge? How do they determine Thai and foreign?

Interesting question. Anyone ?

When I travel with my family, my grown son who was born in Thailand, speaks Thai and carries a Thai passport gets the local rate as does my Thai wife. It's only me and my grandchildren (born in the USA) that pay the tourist rate. Still seems OK to me, see my other post.

[GarryP]

I find it hard to believe that a non native resident of Hawaii, one with a local issued state ID, is charged more based on their skin color and race.

No one really has a problem with residents v tourist prices for attractions. The problem is when the resident is defined by skin color alone (my Khmer ex who couldnt speak one word of Thai was routinely given the Thai price) not based on residency but based on race.

The large majority of resident expats do NOT contribute to the upkeep nor maintenance of the parks. Why should we get to pay as little for entry as those who do?

Granted, the sign shouldn't read "Correct Skin Color Required," but with just a little bit of thought, we really do understand what is trying to be done here... unless one is really paranoid that the Thais are out to fleece foreigners. Personally, I don't think that's the case. If we want to play, we need to pay. Either though taxes or through higher entry fees.

Ahh that old canard... "Farangs dont pay tax'..

Your aware I assume that fully 50% of the thai tax revenue is based on consumption taxes ?? That Thailands income taxation is notoriously weak for the powerful and even slightly wealthy.

So as taxation comes in consumption and import taxes.. Anyone who spends multiple of What Thais spend monthly, actually pays more 'tax' than Thais do.. How much of that BMW price was tax ?? Or your last bottle of wine ?? Or your last craft beer ??

The myth that westerners here dont contribute to the taxation system is precisely that faulty logic and a myth.

I had never thought of it like that. But I know very many Thais who pay no income tax whatsoever. The only tax they are paying regularly is VAT and road tax. The revenue department does not spare me though and I am clobbered monthly. Luckily, I have no real interest in visiting national parks.

I remember being on a coach with company staff (about 40 Thais) and being the only foreigner as we stopped at Kao Yai gates a number of years ago. I think the sheer number of Thai passengers dissuaded the ranger from demanding the foreigner entrance fee, although he did initially try it on.

[PhuketFarang]

The Thai dual pricing policy is still a HECK of a lot cheaper than you would pay in many other countries that also have dual pricing policies. Yet Farangs still complain. **sigh**