Thai men: brave, hardworking or just plain silly?

[AlexRRR]

I was on the scene 3rd person actually when a window cleaner had fallen to his death spread eagle over the concert payment, the basket had given way one side and the guy wasn't wearing a safety harness, his mate looking over the edge down at us, this was near pantiff and centre world a few years ago, why does it happen?

Lack of government action, lack of unions, lack of public awareness, do they have workers compensation? pretty dam sure if insurance companies were insuring workers they would put pressure on employers to up safety procedures, all shit hit the fan in construction in AU about 15 years ago when a plasterer fell to his death from an open stair void on a house under construction, maybe it was one injury to many that caused the shit to hit the fan.

[1FinickyOne]

Cause and effect can be a tough concept for some people here - you are in a Buddhist country - they believe in reincarnation.

Then again, it looks like a pretty sturdy beam and my neighbor in USA had a stroke and fell off a roof while fixing a chimney.

[AlexRRR]

Not hard to understand. Safety is just another luxury not widely available in relatively poor countries.

I actually don't agree with this.

I've been to a number of poor countries and it's a matter of priorities.

The OP has a good point -- there is a shocking recklessness you see here on a regular basis.

It's more extreme here even than in "macho" Latin American countries where you might expect that.

So, it's part of the CULTURE here. An arguably awful part of the culture.

Thais have never been taught howto think critically, there's your answer.

Nothing to do with being taught to think....its all about industry awareness, in the west we just didn't have safety concerns over night, they came on the back of union pressure to begin with then insurance company pressure, Thailand operates like Australia did back in the 50's and 60's in regards to many work practices.

[Muzarella]

This situations are very common in more than 50% of the world's countries. Most Westerners...are from of the other 50%....and looks like its still living in their countries..but the reality is different. Critics will not make any difference...specially in Thailand. Take it or leave it...

[CharlieH]

Said it many times before, if you come from the West, you were raised and taught a set of rules & regs.

Now you are in Asia and the rules and regs are different.

A bit like you learning to play chess, when all around you have learned to play tiddly-winks, and you cant apply the rules of chess to tiddly-winks, it just wont work.

Are they wrong, no, its just a different way of life and different standards to that which you are probably used to and in some cases have come to expect.

What you need to do when you come to live here is "unlearn" those things and accept what is "the norm" in this society/culture.

If you cant or wont, then you'll have problems and probably end up frustrated and moaning about how bad everything is.

[chrisinth]

Not hard to understand. Safety is just another luxury not widely available in relatively poor countries.

I actually don't agree with this.

I've been to a number of poor countries and it's a matter of priorities.

The OP has a good point -- there is a shocking recklessness you see here on a regular basis.

It's more extreme here even than in "macho" Latin American countries where you might expect that.

So, it's part of the CULTURE here. An arguably awful part of the culture.

Thais have never been taught howto think critically, there's your answer.

Nothing to do with being taught to think....its all about industry awareness, in the west we just didn't have safety concerns over night, they came on the back of union pressure to begin with then insurance company pressure, Thailand operates like Australia did back in the 50's and 60's in regards to many work practices.

Couldn't agree with this any more than i do now. It is sometimes difficult for us coming from western standards backgrounds, armed with only short term memory, to find the actions of changing a lamp in this fashion to be almost offensive. As Alex has rightly said, occupational safety and health hasn't always been here; it most certainly is now and paired with the insurance companies it is a multi billion business.

Health & Safety (in the workplace) is a big part of my job here, and changes are happening, regardless of how you may feel there are responsible employers out there.

Once they get over one of the biggest hurdles which can turn a 5 minute job into 60 minutes because regulations need to be followed (not necessarily safety orientated) then before you know it, Thailand will join western mentality......................

For clarity, i don't ever endorse shortcuts outside of set procedures where safety is concerned. Thailand is what it is for now, but is changing slowly.

[SOTIRIOS]

.........pathetic...disgusting.....despicable.........idiotic.......etc........is NOT culture......it is lack thereof......

...just that it is alarmingly rampant....

....like my wife used to say: "I hate genius" " I hate logic"....

...and if you stand up for anything that makes sense...but not to them....you are 'sick....bad...crazy'....and being a foreigner....case closed...

Edited November 12, 2015 by SOTIRIOS

[HooHaa]

.........pathetic...disgusting.....despicable.........idiotic.......etc........is NOT culture......it is lack thereof......

...just that it is alarmingly rampant....

....like my wife used to say: "I hate genius" " I hate logic"....

...and if you stand up for anything that makes sense...but not to them....you are 'sick....bad...crazy'....and being a foreigner....case closed...

and if "they" stand up for something that does not make sense to you they are "........pathetic...disgusting.....despicable.........idiotic.." being thai. case closed.

it would seem cultural intolerance cuts both ways

[scorecard]

When a gigantic office tower was being built next to my building 25 years ago, I heard stories directly from the labourers, translated by my Thai colleagues, that their boss would go ape if anyone mentioned safety and they'd be sacked. I was told that about 1 person died every month on the site, and that the family of that person would be paid 100k baht to say nothing. The cost of deaths and injuries was built into the tender price. There was no insurance for the workers.

Not surprised but There are also good examples. My family bought a house in a new moo baan about 5 years ago, in the North. We watched our house being built, the building company was owned by 2 mid ages Thai men, both spoke excellent English, both good listeneders, both pleasant, both had a can do / customer first attitude.

Their total workforce was some 400 people. Under the two owners 2 Thai supervisors, both with good attitude, then all others workers were hilltribe folks, all from one ethnic group.

I asked one of the owners 'why all hilltribe folks'. His quick answer: 'They are not lazy, they come on time, I can trust them, they don't do silly things, they are proud of their work, and they come quickly to talk to me if there's a problem, if they need direction, or they need new tools, almost zero problem with alcohol or drugs, almost never have workers who can't work because of hangover, etc'.

I also discovered that many of the hilltribe workers spoke some to intermediate English (missionary activities). I asked them about their bosses. Every time positive responses: 'Boss pays us better than average, always paid on the correct date, overtime always calculated correctly, boss provides lunch and other meals where needed, if good workers are really sick or their kids are sick boss takes them to good hospital quickly and takes care of them, paid a bonus on completion of every 5 houses, paid on time, and a little party'.

Back to the OP, have you ever seen western folks do silly things on the job?

Ladders, other equipment readily available but too lazy to get the right equipment, just do it the easiest / laziest way. I certainly have.

[NickJ]

Common Sence doesnt have the same meaning here than it does anywhere else in the World...............

[mogo51]

Not hard to understand. Safety is just another luxury not widely available in relatively poor countries.

Fair comment.

But whatever happened to common sense?

Very easy, it is not very common.

[DrTuner]

No biggie, fall down, born again, maibpenrai.

[atyclb]

The difference is Education, Training and awareness. That's what the "nanny" states drum into you..

Thailand, sadly, not so much.

Perhaps but I think it's much deeper than that here.

Thailand still retains a lot of the feudal culture mentality.

Peasant lives don't really matter much here, do they?

Look at the way pedestrians are treated here. They are seen as expendable peasants.

If you actually kill one assuming you don't flee the scene (so common here and almost seen as normal and acceptable) ... what does it cost you, 5000 baht, if that?

The man changing the bulb was an expendable peasant and for him to stand up and say I want the tools to do this safely, even if he had that spark of intelligence / self worth valuing of his how own life in him which is very doubtful, he'd be out of his rice bowl right quick.

Sorry, yes I live here and nobody is making me live here, but I'm never going to admire that part of this culture which is like that.

Cheers.

Ditch the western mindset, and consider how your average Thai views this life, the next life and the one before.

Thais arent burdened with concepts such as original sin, purgatory or hell.

This life is nothing more than a vehicle that carries them to the next.

they have their own equivalent set of rules, a ton of social rules and regulations tied to guilt if they are broken, and they are scared to break them.

[AlQaholic]

only in America....

[Doc46]

Not hard to understand. Safety is just another luxury not widely available in relatively poor countries.

Fair comment.

But whatever happened to common sense?

Don't have any ,so can't use it

[louse1953]

Why the f??k do you care not having a go out you at all , just why would you care I said the same to my thai girl friend she tells me I not care so if Thais not care about Thais why would someone from the west care about them .

She tells me this is thailand not like your Country and she has been to see how great my country is and she loves it .

So like I tell her about how f??king stupid Thais are on the roads she just says this is thailand not like your country .

And I say to her I think it is about times Thais care about Thais but she says Thais not care so I have give up and not say a thing not my country so now I think like her I not care .

Remember TRT(Thai Rak Thai) party,what a farce that turned out to be.

[Suradit69]

Have you every watched The Science of Stupid on National Geographic? It isn't filmed in Thailand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Ihj3eO110

[louse1953]

My wife lets my 3 year old daughter sit in the front seat. I told her millions of times that the air bag can kill her. Her reply was that she drives carefully and my daughter is wearing a good luck amulet and not to worry.

No seat belt either or one that will strangle her.My niece and nephew sit in the back behind the seats or they don't go.Start climbing on the middle glove box,get back or else. Cheeky buggers asked me,or else what.I said, i don't want to be cleaning your brains and blood off the windscreen when i have an accident.

[louse1953]

I was on the scene 3rd person actually when a window cleaner had fallen to his death spread eagle over the concert payment, the basket had given way one side and the guy wasn't wearing a safety harness, his mate looking over the edge down at us, this was near pantiff and centre world a few years ago, why does it happen?

Lack of government action, lack of unions, lack of public awareness, do they have workers compensation? pretty dam sure if insurance companies were insuring workers they would put pressure on employers to up safety procedures, all shit hit the fan in construction in AU about 15 years ago when a plasterer fell to his death from an open stair void on a house under construction, maybe it was one injury to many that caused the shit to hit the fan.

It is the Unions that put the pressure on,on behalf of the workers.No leadership came from the boss's that's for sure.Same as asbestos,still a problem in Aust and far bigger in Thailand.RIP Bernie Bampton.

[whaleboneman]

My wife lets my 3 year old daughter sit in the front seat. I told her millions of times that the air bag can kill her. Her reply was that she drives carefully and my daughter is wearing a good luck amulet and not to worry.

Can you not disable the airbag? (I don't mean your wife.)

[seajae]

the problem is if they introduce regulations for safety etc it will start to raise the prices of everything which will then be another moaner for all those that want it to be cheap here, you cant start to add western values in the workplace etc without also raising all the related costs. It would be the same if people demanded qualified tradesmen be used in building, the prices would skyrocket, health and safety would do the same as it would add extra costs into the pricing structure. Unfortunately we cant have it both ways if the thais/westerners want the prices to remain low which makes if very prickly

[Linzz]

The difference is Education, Training and awareness. That's what the "nanny" states drum into you..

Thailand, sadly, not so much.

Perhaps but I think it's much deeper than that here.

Thailand still retains a lot of the feudal culture mentality.

Peasant lives don't really matter much here, do they?

Look at the way pedestrians are treated here. They are seen as expendable peasants.

If you actually kill one assuming you don't flee the scene (so common here and almost seen as normal and acceptable) ... what does it cost you, 5000 baht, if that?

The man changing the bulb was an expendable peasant and for him to stand up and say I want the tools to do this safely, even if he had that spark of intelligence / self worth valuing of his how own life in him which is very doubtful, he'd be out of his rice bowl right quick.

Sorry, yes I live here and nobody is making me live here, but I'm never going to admire that part of this culture which is like that.

Cheers.

Ditch the western mindset, and consider how your average Thai views this life, the next life and the one before.

Thais arent burdened with concepts such as original sin, purgatory or hell.

This life is nothing more than a vehicle that carries them to the next.

But they sure as scared of ghosts

[55Jay]

only in America....

European immigrant workers........

[Konaboy1]

The difference is Education, Training and awareness. That's what the "nanny" states drum into you..

Thailand, sadly, not so much.

When I talk to my Thai GF about things like this ( other dangerous acts), she just says something like-

when it's their time so be it

Buddhist??

[lovelomsak]

the problem is if they introduce regulations for safety etc it will start to raise the prices of everything which will then be another moaner for all those that want it to be cheap here, you cant start to add western values in the workplace etc without also raising all the related costs. It would be the same if people demanded qualified tradesmen be used in building, the prices would skyrocket, health and safety would do the same as it would add extra costs into the pricing structure. Unfortunately we cant have it both ways if the thais/westerners want the prices to remain low which makes if very prickly

You are spot on. I had friend Cambodia Chinese immigrate to California.When he had enough money saved from working he opened mom and pop liqour store.Built up the business and would sell them for good profit. Did 3 was doing great. Decided to buy a gas station and make real money. Well with the gas station came employees ,with employees came taxes,health insurance,unemployment insurance,paid holidays etc all the things that go with employment of staff in America. In less than a year he closed the doors and walked away. He said with all the rules he couldnot make money.He actually just walked away from the business.

He was used to undercutting others to make a go of it. and with all the extra costs involved with workers he could not do that and make a profit. He could not compete when having to take good care of the employee.

[NoshowJones]

Not hard to understand. Safety is just another luxury not widely available in relatively poor countries.

Fair comment.

But whatever happened to common sense?

It was never here in the first place.

[Jeffkp]

Poverty. When you live, literally, day to day, you'll take just about any job. And if a Thai won't do it, then there's always an illegal who is even more desperate. I've lived in CM a year now, and I don;t know how many people I've talked to who have been abused and cheated by their employers.

A bar manager told me just the other night that his staff was two days late getting paid because the owner got drunk the first night and had a "bellyache" the second. He couldn't be bothered to come in and pay them.

So, again, poverty.

Come the revolution, comrades!

[whatproblem]

He got his safety gear on ,an amulet round his neck

[Briggsy]

Do you remember when you were a kid and you careened up and down your street on a bicycle with no protection at all.

You probably fell off a fair few times and smashed your head on the road. A bit later your were back on your bike.

Why did you do that? Because everyone in your environment did that. Because nobody had trained you to ride safely or wear a helmet. Because nobody mandated you ride in a safer way.

Safety takes a culture, training and education and enforcement.

Since all of these are missing here, safety procedures are not present or not followed.

[elgordo38]

Not hard to understand. Safety is just another luxury not widely available in relatively poor countries.

Fair comment.

But whatever happened to common sense?

Almost makes one think that people are expendable here. Next worker step up the ladder. Safety is a good thing much needed but when you add up the cost of all the safety rules that the West requires to the safety rules here the difference can be a deal breaker in business. Governments can spout off all they want about all the workers rights foreign countries should adhere to in the new trade deals but that is only window dressing to make voters the population think that the new found so called prosperity of these deals will benefit workers in foreign countries and bring them into the 21 century. I have lived in a rural area here exposed to construction on a daily basis. Said construction was touting safety but in actuality workers were scrambling around in sandals no hard hats no safety lines and wobbly bamboo scaffolding not assembled properly. All these so called trade deals with China with all environmental attachments went out the window. Nothing changed in China accept for the inflow of Greenbacks.