Immigration announces details on applying for a residents permit in Thailand

[SaintLouisBlues]

An impossible height to jump to. 100 people per nationality. They really don't want us here.

Except the Kiwis

[SaintLouisBlues]

I hope all other countries take note of this and apply similar restrictions on Thais who wish to become residents abroad.

Why? The sort of people who might want to migrate here are older folk with little to contribute apart from their income. The Thais who want to migrate to the sort of countries those folk come from are likely to be young, hard-working ... and fertile. It's a no-brainer for them, frankly. Someone has to pay the pensions of those older citizens wherever they may live

Edited November 30, 2015 by SaintLouisBlues

[elviajero]

What a waste of time and money. The only benefit I see of having a residency permit is to do away with annual extensions that cost 1,900 baht and take a couple of hours a year. It would cost me 100k for a residency permit and other 200k for what? If annual extensions get abolished we are all going home. Resident permit holders included.

[Acharn]

An impossible height to jump to. 100 people per nationality. They really don't want us here.

Has this limit ever been a problem for people of your nationality?

I simply don't bother applying. 100 per Brit for the whole of Thailand? 1000s of us pests are here.

Yes, but less than 100 apply every year. Application fee is, IIRC, ฿7,600, non-refundable, and there's a humongous amount of paperwork required, and then an interview to see if you speak Thai reasonably well. If your application is approved, you must submit a "deposit" of ฿191,400 for the booklet that you are issued. Main reason I'm not going to apply is that all my retirement income is from the U.S. and in accordance with the Thai/U.S. tax treaty I only pay income taxes there. I've always assumed they would not accept my Forms 1040 as evidence that I pay taxes. Finally, you must also submit a "portfolio," which includes detailed information about family background, knowledge and ability, working experience, special ability, social work, work place, residence together with photo (using the A4 document folder). One of the things they look for is what contributions you have made to Thai society. Going for Thai citizenship is no more difficult. I'm surprised that they have announced this so early and provided such a long time frame. In the past the allowed time for application was usually one day, and it was announced the day before.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Acharn

[samran]

I hope all other countries take note of this and apply similar restrictions on Thais who wish to become residents abroad.

Okie dokie. How about Thailand starts with getting rid of dirt cheap retirement visas? No one else offers them...

I'd love the UK rule of the local spouse having to earn a pretty penny before their teerak can come over. That would be great. Then a life in Thailand test to extend the visa.

Careful what you wish for..

The reality is that the bar for PR in Thailand is ridiculously low...and that there are plenty that think the bar is too high says more about them than Thailand...

[Somtamnication]

Apply - sure.

But are they actually granting these?

Yes they do issue them. They cleared a backlog in the hundreds earlier this year.

Yes, from 2006 applicants.

[jayboy]

What a waste of time and money. The only benefit I see of having a residency permit is to do away with annual extensions that cost 1,900 baht and take a couple of hours a year. It would cost me 100k for a residency permit and other 200k for what? If annual extensions get abolished we are all going home. Resident permit holders included.

This kind of post crops up regularly and invariably is from someone who doesn't qualify for PR anyway.Why complain about what's not on offer?

For most of those who hold PR - apart from those who are on a road to citizenship - the main advantage is simply security of tenure.

[ubonjoe]

Apply - sure.

But are they actually granting these?

Yes they do issue them. They cleared a backlog in the hundreds earlier this year.

Yes, from 2006 applicants.

Actually those were cleared in a catch up in 2012.

[elviajero]

What a waste of time and money. The only benefit I see of having a residency permit is to do away with annual extensions that cost 1,900 baht and take a couple of hours a year. It would cost me 100k for a residency permit and other 200k for what? If annual extensions get abolished we are all going home. Resident permit holders included.

This kind of post crops up regularly and invariably is from someone who doesn't qualify for PR anyway.Why complain about what's not on offer?

For most of those who hold PR - apart from those who are on a road to citizenship - the main advantage is simply security of tenure.

I'm not complaining just giving an opinion. I do qualify and have considered applying in the past, but there is no benefit. There is no more security of tenure for me. I qualify for at least four annual extensions and none are ever likely to be taken away. Thailand don't give permanent residency, they give a residency permit that allows indefinite leave to stay. That permit can be revoked like any other.

[jayboy]

What a waste of time and money. The only benefit I see of having a residency permit is to do away with annual extensions that cost 1,900 baht and take a couple of hours a year. It would cost me 100k for a residency permit and other 200k for what? If annual extensions get abolished we are all going home. Resident permit holders included.

This kind of post crops up regularly and invariably is from someone who doesn't qualify for PR anyway.Why complain about what's not on offer?

For most of those who hold PR - apart from those who are on a road to citizenship - the main advantage is simply security of tenure.

I'm not complaining just giving an opinion. I do qualify and have considered applying in the past, but there is no benefit. There is no more security of tenure for me. I qualify for at least four annual extensions and none are ever likely to be taken away. Thailand don't give permanent residency, they give a residency permit that allows indefinite leave to stay. That permit can be revoked like any other.

If you feel completely secure and can achieve complete peace of mind under your current immigration status, I agree there's little point in these circumstances in your applying for PR ( assuming you qualify for it).

[SteveB2]

Lots of hearsay and prejudice being voiced here - FYO this is how my last PR application was for me about 2 months ago.

Last year, I visited on the last but one day - according to the official, 72 successful application submissions (total, world wide) had been received for Thai PR by that day - so I wouldn't worry about the 100 applicants per country limit.

I've been going through the PR application process seriously now for the last 2 years. Every year so far, some thing was not quite perfect - never-mind' - I was recommended to put things right and re-apply the following year since it is not good to have an application refused at immigration office higher committee level (The interviewing immigration officer is not the official who makes the final decision - the PR applicants documents go to a committee for consideration)

The paperwork requirements are very extensive - I mean very, very extensive - with home country visits likely necessary to obtain legalized copies of important documents. The total costs including basic Thai legal assistance, Thai secretarial/CPA costs for the extensive documentation preparation and likely an oversea visits back home to obtain legalized copies and the final THB191K fee, will easily exceed USD10K. There is also a final clause in that immigration officer can ask for any additional information and evidence they want to satisfy them that you and you application are completely in order. The application interview at Chaeng-Wattana Bangkok was about an hour long - all in Thai language - questions and answers about the application paperwork required me to read the Thai documents in my application pack to give answers in response to the official's questions. The official mentioned that above and beyond the PR application paperwork, there is a scoring system for applicants based on suitability. A successful paperwork submission is no guarantee of being called up for the final interview. Most of my contacts who have succeeded in PR application said it took them several attempts before their application was accepted - these are high level guys working for big Bangkok companies with equally high level Bangkok lawyers doing the document prep.

So wish me luck with this years PR application window - I'll need it

[mruniverse]

Submitted my application today - the submission process was smooth as all my docs are present and accounted for. The officers were polite, friendly and helpful as usual. An officer told me so far they've had 60-something applications.

Good luck SteveB2 and everyone else doing their applications this year

[Kasset Tak]

I hope all other countries take note of this and apply similar restrictions on Thais who wish to become residents abroad.

Although Thailand dosnt offer a long term visa for married persons, the criteria for PR or Citizenship is reasonably straight forward compared to many other countries. Can a Thai go to the UK or France for a month, then extend for another month, no, they must jump through hoops to get a visa befor even leaving Thailand.

4 of my Thai Friends (one family) tried to get to get tourist visas to US as the mans sister lives in Florida and is US citizen. So they wanted to visit her, would stay at her house for free and so on. They spent over 30,000 Baht for their applications, trips and so on but even thou she is working as a nurse in a government hospital, they have a pig farm with 1400 pigs and a pharmacy the clerk at the consulate said that he believed that they would go to US to work as they ONLY had 950,000 Baht in the bank... so no visas!!!

So to compare with them we have it fairly easy to stay here on visas or extensions.

[mortenaa]

I am a bit uncertain how to put together the portfolio. I am writing a word document, which is kind of like a resume of my life here in Thailand. I am attaching pictures as well. Is it ok if this part is in English language, or do I need to have it translated?

[SteveB2]

Submitted my application today - the submission process was smooth as all my docs are present and accounted for. The officers were polite, friendly and helpful as usual. An officer told me so far they've had 60-something applications.

Good luck SteveB2 and everyone else doing their applications this year

Thank mruniverse for your well wishes and good luck - I made it through the application process on Christmas day this year on my 3rd 'official' attempt with a lawyer present.

The entire process took from 0830-1300 hrs (4.5 hours), so anyone planning on applying should get there very early to as to be first in the que.

I arrived at 0700 hrs , and there were already 50 people waiting for other visa classes by the door at this time.

Next to Thai citizenship, PR status issuance is very rare. There are only 4 officers processing PR applications in two small offices, indicating that only 8 PR applications(involving a mountain of paperwork to be checked, then double checked, fingerprinting, and 2 Thai language interviews) are expected to be processed per day - or about 112 max applicants (total, all countries) are expected to be processed during each years 2 week intake window.

In contrast with last year(2014), where the IMO processing was brash, aggressive and at times up front rude this year was a breath of fresh air, with 'polite, friendly and helpful' officers as per your comments.

I have been informed of the need to attend a second interview around March time - and that I need to continue with my normal visa renewal method/extension until PR is issued sometime in the very distant future, maybe in my next life, (expected to be 3-5 years).

[mruniverse]

That's awesome Steve, well done

I got the same advice as you - keep using your business visa, rather than getting a bridging visa. I'm choosing to take this as a good sign - that they're expecting to be so efficient processing this years applications that it's not even worth cutting bridging visas My understanding from this post is that the 2014 applications were processed by May: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/827854-thai-interior-minister-signs-residency-permit-for-foreigners/

"The approved permit consists of 565 pending requests and 115 new requests from the consideration of the Immigration Commission’s 1/2015 meeting on 16 March 2015."

Also got the same advice as you that there'll be a March-ish interview of some sort - I didn't catch if that was the language test or something else.

Fingers crossed.

[THAIJAMES]

That's awesome Steve, well done

I got the same advice as you - keep using your business visa, rather than getting a bridging visa. I'm choosing to take this as a good sign - that they're expecting to be so efficient processing this years applications that it's not even worth cutting bridging visas My understanding from this post is that the 2014 applications were processed by May: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/827854-thai-interior-minister-signs-residency-permit-for-foreigners/

"The approved permit consists of 565 pending requests and 115 new requests from the consideration of the Immigration Commission’s 1/2015 meeting on 16 March 2015."

Also got the same advice as you that there'll be a March-ish interview of some sort - I didn't catch if that was the language test or something else.

Fingers crossed.

Doesn't that mean that you have to fill out and supply the mountain of documents required for the business visa? What most of us PR's got is a stamp saying that PR is under consideration and we were told to come back every six months to renew the stamp - No documentation required.

[mruniverse]

Yep you're right ThaiJames - if PR is not processed by the next time I have to renew my business visa then yep will have to go through the renewal process based on the current state. I'm not sure what to expect exactly but I will see if I can get a clearer picture when I next talk to the officers in a couple of weeks.

[SteveB2]

That's awesome Steve, well done

I got the same advice as you - keep using your business visa, rather than getting a bridging visa. I'm choosing to take this as a good sign - that they're expecting to be so efficient processing this years applications that it's not even worth cutting bridging visas My understanding from this post is that the 2014 applications were processed by May: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/827854-thai-interior-minister-signs-residency-permit-for-foreigners/

"The approved permit consists of 565 pending requests and 115 new requests from the consideration of the Immigration Commission’s 1/2015 meeting on 16 March 2015."

Also got the same advice as you that there'll be a March-ish interview of some sort - I didn't catch if that was the language test or something else.

Fingers crossed.

Doesn't that mean that you have to fill out and supply the mountain of documents required for the business visa? What most of us PR's got is a stamp saying that PR is under consideration and we were told to come back every six months to renew the stamp - No documentation required.

Yep you're right ThaiJames - if PR is not processed by the next time I have to renew my business visa then yep will have to go through the renewal process based on the current state. I'm not sure what to expect exactly but I will see if I can get a clearer picture when I next talk to the officers in a couple of weeks.

Yes - there appears to have been a change in the processing method of PR applications.

From 'words received from high places' I understand that since many of the PR applications are based on business reasons, the new military government would like to make it easier for long time business owners to stay here in Thailand, and have given instructions to both clear the backlog, and speed up processing of new applications.

During my previous years(2014) application attempt, I was told that if the application was accepted, then some kind of bridging visa would be issued that took into consideration that my PR application was under consideration.

However, this years 2015 intake, has different rules - in that no bridging visa is issued, and that the applicant should keep his existing visa class up and running as usual until PR is issued.

Thank you Mruniverse for your own continued updates to this thread.

[Time Traveller]

I hope all other countries take note of this and apply similar restrictions on Thais who wish to become residents abroad.

Okie dokie. How about Thailand starts with getting rid of dirt cheap retirement visas? No one else offers them...

I'd love the UK rule of the local spouse having to earn a pretty penny before their teerak can come over. That would be great. Then a life in Thailand test to extend the visa.

Careful what you wish for..

The reality is that the bar for PR in Thailand is ridiculously low...and that there are plenty that think the bar is too high says more about them than Thailand...

....says the guy that never applied for PR himself.

If the PR applications were open for more than just a handful of days per year (instead of around the annual holiday time when most expats are away), OR

if it was based on income alone instead of having to be indentured to a thai employer for years, OR

if it didn't require 20 different documents that employers may not be willing to provide, OR

if it was processed in a reasonable time frame instead having to wait 5 or more years after applying just to get an answer,

then perhaps.

But facts speak for themselves, Thailand takes about 150 permanent residents per year. - about the same as USA takes in each and every hour.

If anywere has a low bar for PR, it sure is not Thailand.

Is it sour grapes? Maybe, maybe not.

And for what's it worth, I worked in Thailand in total almost 10 years for 3 different employers.

The first not long enough to qualify for PR. The second employer would not provided the company documentation needed for my application and the third employer was during the time when either PR was not open that year, or they announced very late in the year when I was not in country to apply.

So I missed out, no big deal. But don't go around saying thai PR is easy and they need to tighten the rules, it makes you sound like someone with a 3rd world inferiority complex.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Time Traveller

[dbrenn]

An impossible height to jump to. 100 people per nationality. They really don't want us here.

Has this limit ever been a problem for people of your nationality?

When I applied, they told me that I was the 17th British person.

[dbrenn]

I hope all other countries take note of this and apply similar restrictions on Thais who wish to become residents abroad.

Countries tend to reciprocate immigration rules so ukrules might have a point. In Australia, there are about 7,000 Thais granted citizenship (usually based on being married to an Australian for 2 years and paying the approx. 100,000 Baht cost) per year. Further, permanent residency in Australia is assured under immigration law if you can prove you have been in the stable relationship for two years. There are no language requirements. If the Australian Government applied a reciprocate rule (e.g. limit of 100 Thais becoming Australian per year) it would cause a helluva stink.

Of course, each country must apply rulings it sees as fit. Australia is a hard place for Thais to get to, but relatively easy to become a citizen once you get there. Thailand is an easy place to get to, but hard to become a citizen.

Wrong. Thais need to spend 4 years in Australia before they are eligible for citizenship. There is not a yearly 100,000 baht cost - one off charges for PR and citizenship are instead levied.

Your statement that PR is guaranteed after 2 years in a relationship is also untrue. All that two years means is that you may be eligible for PR with no need for a temporary visa to prove that the relationship is genuine. Even with two years there is still a lengthy application process and PR approval is by no means automatic.

[Camelot]

A friend got one a few years ago. You have to pay bribes along the whole process. I think it was about 400k.

No you don't.

Your friend might be mixing this up with the application fee and the fee due on final approval and issuance of the residence permit.

If he used a lawyer I would get suspicious.

I didn't pay a single baht in tea money when I got mine and neither did a close friend who got his last year. PR is a Godsend in so many different ways.

[carter1882]

It is interesting to see how things have changed and the different approaches and feelings of applicants. Myself and a good friend applied together about fifteen years ago so we could support each other. Then the documents were very extensive and the wait until it was granted was about 15 months. We did about four or five visits to. Suan phlu, CW immigration hadnt opened yet. We did all the collection of paperwork ourselves without any assistance from lawyers at all. The final fee, in the days before the. Taksin administartion quintupled visa charges, was 20,000. My interview was in Thai which was simple for me and included written questions like how many days are there in a week.....well you did have to read Thai to be able to comprehend it. My friend was not so competent at Thai and he had his wife there to help him a bit. I put together a photo portfolio of where I lived at the time with captions in Thai of things like my front door, my kids and my activities at home. We had nothing but encouragement and help from the authorities and indeed my friend ended up offering to teach English to some of the officials. The bar was not low and the sense of achievement was high when we got it. The benefits? Residence of course, peace of mind. But easy to make property purchases without proof of funds from abroad, easy to get loans, easy banking. We still have to pay 5,700 baht per year for reentry permits and endorsements (multiple) but that is easy enough. Of course you dont need to do that if you dont leave the country at all. Polce books are also issued and these need to be updated if you move and and a renewal page filled in about every five or six years. Most Thais in officialdom are familiar with the now little white residence book. If they are not then a few words of explanation in Thai, surely something that most residents should be able to do, will ease the wheels of understanding. Only some of the above will apply to those hopefuls doing the process these days but I wish you all good luck.

[jayboy]

A friend got one a few years ago. You have to pay bribes along the whole process. I think it was about 400k.

No you don't.

Your friend might be mixing this up with the application fee and the fee due on final approval and issuance of the residence permit.

If he used a lawyer I would get suspicious.

I didn't pay a single baht in tea money when I got mine and neither did a close friend who got his last year. PR is a Godsend in so many different ways.

I think the matter of using a lawyer to assist with PR is very clear.

1.It is certainly not necessary nor will it improve chances of success.

2.A dodgy lawyer is worse than no lawyer at all.

3.Use of a good lawyer significantly reduces the effort/time involved by the applicant.Normally the applicant's office liaises with the lawyer/agent to productive effect.A top class Thai secretary might obviate the need to involve anyone else.

4.The decision whether to use a lawyer depends on the value one places on one's time.

5.Immigration couldn't care less whether a lawyer/ agent is used or not.

I would liken it to the decision to fly economy or business class.Using a lawyer makes life a bit more comfortable.That's it.

[mruniverse]

Beepers post on the Camerata thread reminded me that I wanted to check in with my PR2015 brothers and see how everyone was going. @SteveB2, @Beeper, anyone else out there - where are you up to?

My latest update is that I've done the affidavit about 2 weeks ago at CW with my case officer - about 10 minutes in and out. So hopefully now the last step is just the language test in late April or early May (timing according to what my case officer told me).

Hope to hear updates from other, and hope everyone else is going well with their applications

- Mr Universe