Retirement extention refuse in Bangkok CW

[khunano]

So what happens then if I have say 1million B in account. Can I still make withdrawals as long as the balance doesn't go below 800k for the 3 months?

yes, that's correct.

[SOTIRIOS]

.....they like to 'play God'.....for whatever reason....whenever it possesses them.....maybe 'that time of month'....who knows....

...nothing you can do but try to comply with their arbitrary enforcement of 'the law'.....

...another Montrealer....

[crazykopite]

Thanks for all advices.

But it is the nail in the coffin for me. I quit Thailand after 9 years.

I have spend the last 4 months in Cebu , Philippines and this will be my new home now. I have already rent a condo there.

In Philippines you can be on a tourist visa for 3 years, extention every 6 months & no problem. Retirement visa is about half money put in the bank then Thailand.

I have travel many time in all Southeast Asia country and i can tell that the Philippines people are the most friendly.. And everybody speak english there.

That was my mistake to withdraw some money but I was sure that the 3 months does not need to me seasonned for combination . The rules have changed

Yet another farang bites the dust and prepares to leave. Each year seems to get harder and I wonder if they really want us in Thailand . When I renewed my extension of stay this year the girl told me I did not have enough income per month, I was astounded as l had a letter From the British Embassy stating my income which far exceeded the monthly amount required after polite conversation she realised that she had done the conversion by using US $ and not the UK £ that is how easy these people can mess up !!!! Good luck with your new venture that will be my preferred choice if they keep on changing the rules making it harder to stay !

[chicowoodduck]

Although I already have about 10 extensions, and hopefully understand the current requirements, the OP's scenario is something I dread, and always feel excessively anxious at each renewal, Wondering what would be involved as a consequence of refusal.

I'm in this same boat...dread the process, but have skipped through for the past 10 or so years....maybe will get lucky the next time and they will refuse me and off I go...???

[DisparateDan]

Too much to hope that one day, some latitude is made for those owning their own property and not needing to pay rent, Say a nominal Baht200k ?

[jimdob01]

A New Wrinkle at Pattaya Immigration

I had heard there were some new (or newly enforced older rules) that were now being used, so I decided to go to Jomtien Immigration to find out. Here is what I found out;

in addition to the normal requirements to renew a Retirement Visa (TM form, proof of residence, pictures, letter of income or cash in the bank, etc.)There are 3 more requirements;

1- Copy ID card of the condo or house owner

2- Copy House Book

3-Contract of rent

I notified my Thai landlord of the new requirements and she went to immigration with the documentation. She then gave me copies of the information and told me to go to the 2nd floor of Immigration the next day to be "interviewed".

No problem, they took my info and gave me a receipt for the docs'and told me to come on the day my retirement visa was to expire. This would be my 8th retirement extension.

NOW HERE IS THE WRINKLE!

I told my friend, who is on his 4th retirement extension, about what happened and so he went to Immigration on the next day.

Because my friend rents from a Falang, he was told to produce, in ADDITION TO THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS,

1- The business licence of the Falang, AND

2- A WORK PERMIT

The Falang condo owner had neither and so my friend was told he could not get his retirement visa.

SOOOO, my friend had to vacate his condo and find one owned by a Thai, which he did. He now has all the proper documentation and he will be able to get his retirement extension.

[bbi1]

Thanks for all advices.

But it is the nail in the coffin for me. I quit Thailand after 9 years.

I have spend the last 4 months in Cebu , Philippines and this will be my new home now. I have already rent a condo there.

In Philippines you can be on a tourist visa for 3 years, extention every 6 months & no problem. Retirement visa is about half money put in the bank then Thailand.

I have travel many time in all Southeast Asia country and i can tell that the Philippines people are the most friendly.. And everybody speak english there.

That was my mistake to withdraw some money but I was sure that the 3 months does not need to me seasonned for combination . The rules have changed

Yet another farang bites the dust and prepares to leave. Each year seems to get harder and I wonder if they really want us in Thailand . When I renewed my extension of stay this year the girl told me I did not have enough income per month, I was astounded as l had a letter From the British Embassy stating my income which far exceeded the monthly amount required after polite conversation she realised that she had done the conversion by using US $ and not the UK £ that is how easy these people can mess up !!!! Good luck with your new venture that will be my preferred choice if they keep on changing the rules making it harder to stay !

Go and get the Thailand Elite, that seems to be the cure to stay for 5 years (or 20 years) here without any problems. It's been touted here on the forum by many people as a long stay option many times....

[bazza40]

I've been told when a deposit of 800,000 baht comes out of a term deposit into a current account on maturity, the "seasoning" clock restarts because it's not the same account, even though it's still in the same bank and branch. Is this correct?

[andybangkok]

I really want to have another 30 days on arrival after my extention is void December 16.

So i am planning to buy a cheap ticket to Yangoon on the 16th. I already look in air asia and it is about 1,700b

But i will not stay there and come back in the morning of the 17th

I am not planning to buy a visa online as i will stay in the airport all the night if it's possible

I have a ticket out of Thailand to Philippines already for January 4

Will it be ok for stay only 1 day and return to Bkk

[ubonjoe]

I've been told when a deposit of 800,000 baht comes out of a term deposit into a current account on maturity, the "seasoning" clock restarts because it's not the same account, even though it's still in the same bank and branch. Is this correct?

That has happened to many people. Some have been lucky that immigration accepted it after an explanation but others have been denied doing the application.

If you have a fixed term account you need to be sure it does not roll over during the 3 months.

[ubonjoe]

I really want to have another 30 days on arrival after my extention is void December 16.

So i am planning to buy a cheap ticket to Yangoon on the 16th. I already look in air asia and it is about 1,700b

But i will not stay there and come back in the morning of the 17th

I am not planning to buy a visa online as i will stay in the airport all the night if it's possible

I have a ticket out of Thailand to Philippines already for January 4

Will it be ok for stay only 1 day and return to Bkk

I think you will need to the visa to enter Myanmar or the airline will not allow you to board your flight.

Also immigration could question you about why you have no entry/departure stamps for Myanmar when you return.

One day out is not a problem. You could even do it on the same day without a problem.

[BritTim]

I agree that penalising you for 2 days is harsh.

As long as you qualify for visa exempt entry you would be given 30 days on entry if you don't have a visa.

You don't need to have the money in your bank for two months to get the non 'O' visa. So you could apply now.

Harsh? I think not. If there is a required 'no touch', then a rule is broken whether money is withdrawn whether for 20 days, 2 days or 2 minutes.

It is difficult to know what the unwritten rules are. Given that the rules, as written, do not require seasoning for the combination method, and it is clear the OP had the funds, yes, I think it is harsh.

Probably, any time you plan on visiting an immigration office for anything, you should contact them in advance to try to find out their current local rules (do they require TM30? do they require a new TM30 if you were away from home? do they follow the rules on the combination method as written, or apply extra conditions? do they need documents not specified in the rules? how many days before expiry of the right to stay should you ask for the extension? can you just turn up at the immigration office, or should you try to make an appointment? etc.) The trouble is many immigration offices do not answer the phone, and it can be very inconvenient turning up in person just to ask questions. Also, the answers given by one immigration official, while usually followed by others in the same office, are not guaranteed to be correct.

It would really be good if there was a consistently followed, single set of rules, easily accessible online. It should be possible to appeal deviations from those rules and get bad decisions reversed.

[andybangkok]

I really want to have another 30 days on arrival after my extention is void December 16.

So i am planning to buy a cheap ticket to Yangoon on the 16th. I already look in air asia and it is about 1,700b

But i will not stay there and come back in the morning of the 17th

I am not planning to buy a visa online as i will stay in the airport all the night if it's possible

I have a ticket out of Thailand to Philippines already for January 4

Will it be ok for stay only 1 day and return to Bkk

I think you will need to the visa to enter Myanmar or the airline will not allow you to board your flight.

Also immigration could question you about why you have no entry/departure stamps for Myanmar when you return.

One day out is not a problem. You could even do it on the same day without a problem.

Ok. thanks. Will apply visa online. Will book dec.16 early morning and out to Bkk nightime

[PlastikbinLina]

The rule does not state seasoning is needed for the combination method. See clause 2.22 of Police Order 327/2557 basis for extension of stay.

Some immigration offices insist that it be seasoned though.

No need to pack up and leave. Just make a trip to Vientiane to get a single entry non-o visa. Show them your income letter and bank book totaling 800k baht. The money only has to be in the bank on the date you apply. Then apply for your extension during the last 30 days of the 90 entry the visa will allow.

'"Some immigration offices insist.. " the key word here is 'some'. The current inspector in Phuket, usually,has no hesitation in allowing an extension if a withdrawal of any amount is deposited within a few days during the 3 months it is deposited. It is par for the course that not all immigration officers follow the rules anywhere in Thailand. Very unfortunate for the OP and absolutely no compassion from the Thai Officer he dealt with.

[OJAS]

They do seem to be getting strict at everything. For my extension this year i got an ''under consideration'' stamp, i have been here for 10 years. They came to my house yesterday to verify that i really live there, i thought they would just come, look at my passport and go again but the whole procedure was an hour long. Two immigration officers came that i recognized from the office,they knew me to. They called in two neighbours as witnesses who had to fill out forms and who were consequently questioned, they asked them what they did for work,what they thought of me as a person, did i behave well in the village,they asked me how much income i had in front of my neighbours even though this was known to them through the paper work in the office last week. They came fully equipped with lap top and printer and all forms were scanned many times. They were polite and friendly but very exact and strict. Is this the new normal?

I assume that you were referring to a retirement extension?

If you were, which immigration office are we talking about here? Not Kap Choeng by any chance (who are notorious for issuing "under consideration" stamps for retirement extensions)?

[soalbundy]

They do seem to be getting strict at everything. For my extension this year i got an ''under consideration'' stamp, i have been here for 10 years. They came to my house yesterday to verify that i really live there, i thought they would just come, look at my passport and go again but the whole procedure was an hour long. Two immigration officers came that i recognized from the office,they knew me to. They called in two neighbours as witnesses who had to fill out forms and who were consequently questioned, they asked them what they did for work,what they thought of me as a person, did i behave well in the village,they asked me how much income i had in front of my neighbours even though this was known to them through the paper work in the office last week. They came fully equipped with lap top and printer and all forms were scanned many times. They were polite and friendly but very exact and strict. Is this the new normal?

I assume that you were referring to a retirement extension?

If you were, which immigration office are we talking about here? Not Kap Choeng by any chance (who are notorious for issuing "under consideration" stamps for retirement extensions)?

Yes, Kap Choen and yes a retirement visa

[IMA_FARANG]

Not to be picky, but what they actually want is for you to have at least 800Kin a bank account for 2 months for the first retirement extension and that same at least 800K in a bank account seasoned for 3 months for further annual extensions.

So if you had ,for example 950K baht in the account and took out 25K for some expense you would be o.k. as long as the total in the account never went blow that 800K requirement during the seasoning period.

At least it worked for me.

[novo58]

Just one small point .......................isnt the requirement for money in the bank for ---------------------

a minimum of 800K.

Therefore, if you have MORE THAN 800K in the account then you can withdraw and use money up to the 800K without any problems.

Just asking ???????

[jacko45k]

Last year i had no problem. But i think the girlis very strict. I have the 3 months in my bank but only withdraw 5,000b 2 days ago that i put back the next day. .

If i go by air in Cambodia the 16 & return here after 3 days , does i can have 30 days like before

Thank you

I agree that penalising you for 2 days is harsh.

As long as you qualify for visa exempt entry you would be given 30 days on entry if you don't have a visa.

You don't need to have the money in your bank for two months to get the non 'O' visa. So you could apply now.

Then I expect removing 50 baht for 25 minutes would be even harsher.

You know your income from overseas, you need to keep the bank account sufficiently high that even fluctuations in exchange rate on the day do not catch you out.

[novo58]

refer to post #8 by

elviajero

the section in red states .......the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

Could the IO's be interpreting this as the requirements ( not documents) are the same as in 2.1 and 2.2 ........which then infers that seasoning is required for the combined method as the seasoning IS A REQUIRMENT of 2.1

[TKDfella]

Yes the treatment seems harsh but I have always done my extensions this way. However, when I first arrived in Thailand in 1995 they told it was best to have a (fixed) savings account and an ordinary account. I use the latter for income and general spending while the former I keep for immigration alone. It isn't fool proof by any means but it does help me keep to the (original) 3 month clause. I once wanted to change a new advertised account but I was not allowed to do without forfeiting the right to use the new account for immigration. Neither my wife understood the rule in Thai nor I with English translation so I stayed with what I had. One hears that money in the bank is for 'insurance' probably more about using a foreigners money. I do sympathize with others but it seems there is now chance relaxing rules under this regime, if anything it is more likely to become more difficult.

[Stevemercer]

I've been told when a deposit of 800,000 baht comes out of a term deposit into a current account on maturity, the "seasoning" clock restarts because it's not the same account, even though it's still in the same bank and branch. Is this correct?

That has happened to many people. Some have been lucky that immigration accepted it after an explanation but others have been denied doing the application.

If you have a fixed term account you need to be sure it does not roll over during the 3 months.

I had this problem when I went for my extension in April 2015 at Khon Kaen. My term deposit finished in March 2015 and I started a new term deposit for the same amount on the same day. The Immigration Office told me they could not extend the visa because the money had not been seasoned for the required time. My wife intervened and, after suitable 'consideration', we went back to the bank and got a new letter explaining the circumstances. They then processed the extension.

So, if your term deposit matures during the seasoning period it is safest just to leave it in that account. Of course, you will get no interest on the account until after you get the visa and can open a new term deposit account.

[NoshowJones]

They do seem to be getting strict at everything. For my extension this year i got an ''under consideration'' stamp, i have been here for 10 years. They came to my house yesterday to verify that i really live there, i thought they would just come, look at my passport and go again but the whole procedure was an hour long. Two immigration officers came that i recognized from the office,they knew me to. They called in two neighbours as witnesses who had to fill out forms and who were consequently questioned, they asked them what they did for work,what they thought of me as a person, did i behave well in the village,they asked me how much income i had in front of my neighbours even though this was known to them through the paper work in the office last week. They came fully equipped with lap top and printer and all forms were scanned many times. They were polite and friendly but very exact and strict. Is this the new normal?

You have my sympathy soalbundy, all that hassle just because they love their authority, it's all a game to them, and they

get a great kick out of messing western people around.

[andybangkok]

Last year i had no problem. But i think the girlis very strict. I have the 3 months in my bank but only withdraw 5,000b 2 days ago that i put back the next day. .

If i go by air in Cambodia the 16 & return here after 3 days , does i can have 30 days like before

Thank you

I agree that penalising you for 2 days is harsh.

As long as you qualify for visa exempt entry you would be given 30 days on entry if you don't have a visa.

You don't need to have the money in your bank for two months to get the non 'O' visa. So you could apply now.

Then I expect removing 50 baht for 25 minutes would be even harsher.

You know your income from overseas, you need to keep the bank account sufficiently high that even fluctuations in exchange rate on the day do not catch you out.

I had the required combination of pension & money in the bank totalising more than 800,000 at the time of meeting with the officer ( by the way all officers in CW that day was women for L extention booths), just a constatation.

I have stayed there for 4 hours and spoke to nearly all of them. Even the supervisor . Not negociable. I stayed polite all the time.

They all refuse because I withdraw some money days before, so not consecutive 3 months

[NoshowJones]

Too much to hope that one day, some latitude is made for those owning their own property and not needing to pay rent, Say a nominal Baht200k ?

That is too much sense for authorities in Thailand.

[fletchsmile]

The rule does not state seasoning is needed for the combination method. See clause 2.22 of Police Order 327/2557 basis for extension of stay.

Some immigration offices insist that it be seasoned though.

No need to pack up and leave. Just make a trip to Vientiane to get a single entry non-o visa. Show them your income letter and bank book totaling 800k baht. The money only has to be in the bank on the date you apply. Then apply for your extension during the last 30 days of the 90 entry the visa will allow.

On the other hand it doesn't say that seasoning is not needed. We also need to bear in mind this document is an English translation.

Whenever I've seen references to amounts they usually mention seasoning. The FAQ on their website also mentions seasoning. So always I'd assumed it would be relevant for combined amounts on the lump sum element. There's a FAQ which says as much.

So basically for most of us it comes down to making assumptions. Unfortunately immigration staff often do likewise, and aren't always consistent

[fletchsmile]

Exactly what i told them.

I will very happy if i see a text in the website mentionning that

You could appeal but I doubt it will be successful. They have been moving towards seasoned bank deposits for the last couple of years.

Immigration website Q&A. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

22. Question : What is the required age of the alien wisthing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;

1. In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.

- The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)

- Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or

2.2 In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare

- Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;

2.3 In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

Last year i had no problem. But i think the girlis very strict. I have the 3 months in my bank but only withdraw 5,000b 2 days ago that i put back the next day. .

If i go by air in Cambodia the 16 & return here after 3 days , does i can have 30 days like before

Thank you

Have had similar experiences in the past over application of rules.

A couple of years back they insisted that my passbook was updated on the day of application. Other staff in the past had accepted it each year as the bank letter is usually also one day earlier and also explaining my bank isn't open yet on that day at 8.30

Last year's classic was that my photos had to be in colour not black and white Again I'd used black and white several times in the past. I've never seen in the Thai regulations it specify colour photos - might be there. Read both Thai and English but couldn't see it. When I raised this the staff member she then went on to say that what I had printed out were not photos anyway as they were on normal paper from a PC. She said the rule dated back to when people had to taken in real photos. Didn't bother asking what happened in pre-colour days. Just went and got colour versions.... LOL

[fletchsmile]

If you think about it logically (yes I know we're in Thailand and logic usually isn't a decent argument LOL ) seasoning should apply.

Otherwise someone turns up who has THB 1,000 a month income and 790,000 baht for a few days in a bank account, just long enough to get a bank letter and show on the day and claim they comply. Where do you draw the line?

So while it may not be explicitly stated I'd expect it and it seems logical to me for once for a rule here, even if not stated. If 800k lump sum should be seasoned, so should any combination.

[andybangkok]

If you think about it logically (yes I know we're in Thailand and logic usually isn't a decent argument LOL ) seasoning should apply.

Otherwise someone turns up who has THB 1,000 a month income and 790,000 baht for a few days in a bank account, just long enough to get a bank letter and show on the day and claim they comply. Where do you draw the line?

So while it may not be explicitly stated I'd expect it and it seems logical to me for once for a rule here, even if not stated. If 800k lump sum should be seasoned, so should any combination.

I agree 100% with you

The problem when you get refused like that with no warning is that you have little time to react.

Sure i can book a ticket to any country to activate a new visa.

But I did not expect that 1 week before x-mas (dec. 16 is my last day) i have to go out of Thailand

Ticket are very expensive now

So that is the real problem

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As regards CW, they've always required seasoning of bank funds-only for retirement extensions, in accord with the written rules.

However, prior to 1-2 years back, CW NEVER enforced seasoning of bank funds when the combination method (income and bank funds) was used.

And, when people began getting caught out by surprise at CW when trying to do combo method retirement extensions back starting probably about 2 years ago because they hadn't seasoned their funds, and never had before, the Immigration officers at CW claimed it was a new rule. So even they acknowledged that seasoning hadn't applied to combo method bank deposits in the past.

Even now, based on the various member posts in the main thread on this topic, seasoning of combo method bank deposits doesn't appear to be a nationally enforced rule. It is at CW, and at a number of other Immigration offices. But the last time I reviewed the posts on the subject, there were a lot of places that still weren't requiring it.

More info on the topic:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/752971-retirement-visa-combination-of-pension-money-in-bank-account/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/862758-seasoning-bank-account-money-for-combination-retirement-extensions/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/752971-retirement-visa-combination-of-pension-money-in-bank-account/?p=8271484

Edited December 1, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK