Retirement extention refuse in Bangkok CW

[ubonjoe]

A post not in English has been removed. Other languages are not allowed by the forum rules.

[fletchsmile]

If you think about it logically (yes I know we're in Thailand and logic usually isn't a decent argument LOL ) seasoning should apply.

Otherwise someone turns up who has THB 1,000 a month income and 790,000 baht for a few days in a bank account, just long enough to get a bank letter and show on the day and claim they comply. Where do you draw the line?

So while it may not be explicitly stated I'd expect it and it seems logical to me for once for a rule here, even if not stated. If 800k lump sum should be seasoned, so should any combination.

I agree 100% with you

The problem when you get refused like that with no warning is that you have little time to react.

Sure i can book a ticket to any country to activate a new visa.

But I did not expect that 1 week before x-mas (dec. 16 is my last day) i have to go out of Thailand

Ticket are very expensive now

So that is the real problem

Yes can be annoying. Like I say I've been picked up a few times for different minor things. Seems to be more now these days than in the past.

All you can do is learn from it for next time:

- Colour photos wanted and not black and white? Take a USB now with a selection on

- Updating the bank account and not knowing if a particular account might qualify - have two.

- Learn which banks are at CW in case they want something doing or updating.

- Bring scanned copies of any docs you might possibly need as well as originals

Closest I came to being refused was when I left a previous employer and was on an extension based on business. I decided to convert to extension based on marriage. My visa extension ran until October. I finished work officially dated a Saturday at month-end. Work cancelled my work permit but left me to deal with the visa. Monday was a bank holiday. So I went in the first available day = Tuesday. They said I'd overstayed 3 days, because when my work permit finished my visa becomes invalid. So there I was with six months remaining on my extension in my passport and they said I should have cancelled it on the Friday while at work, even though my last day was Saturday

I now extend only based on marriage and never based on business in case my job finishes. Cancelling a work permit, updating your bank book, changing your extension basis all on the same day is a challenge when your bank isn't at CW.

Marriage break up? Look at the rules on supporting a child just in case

We live and learn

[MaeJoMTB]

They do seem to be getting strict at everything. For my extension this year i got an ''under consideration'' stamp, i have been here for 10 years. They came to my house yesterday to verify that i really live there, i thought they would just come, look at my passport and go again but the whole procedure was an hour long. Two immigration officers came that i recognized from the office,they knew me to. They called in two neighbours as witnesses who had to fill out forms and who were consequently questioned, they asked them what they did for work,what they thought of me as a person, did i behave well in the village,they asked me how much income i had in front of my neighbours even though this was known to them through the paper work in the office last week. They came fully equipped with lap top and printer and all forms were scanned many times. They were polite and friendly but very exact and strict. Is this the new normal?

Off topic here,

But I wonder what would have happened if your neighbors said you were a foul mouthed, loud mouthed, wife beating, drunken whoremonger?

As far as I know, the only requirements you need for a retirement extension are 800k in the bank for 3 months and a passport valid for 1 year..

Edited December 1, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Red Parrot Fish]

They do seem to be getting strict at everything. For my extension this year i got an ''under consideration'' stamp, i have been here for 10 years. They came to my house yesterday to verify that i really live there, i thought they would just come, look at my passport and go again but the whole procedure was an hour long. Two immigration officers came that i recognized from the office,they knew me to. They called in two neighbours as witnesses who had to fill out forms and who were consequently questioned, they asked them what they did for work,what they thought of me as a person, did i behave well in the village,they asked me how much income i had in front of my neighbours even though this was known to them through the paper work in the office last week. They came fully equipped with lap top and printer and all forms were scanned many times. They were polite and friendly but very exact and strict. Is this the new normal?

Off topic here,

But I wonder what would have happened if your neighbors said you were a foul mouthed, loud mouthed, wife beating, drunken whoremonger?

As far as I know, the only requirements you need for a retirement extension are 800k in the bank for 3 months and a passport valid for 1 year..

Passport does not have to be valid for a year.

However the extension of stay will be valid for the validity of your passport.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Red Parrot Fish

[BritTim]

The rule does not state seasoning is needed for the combination method. See clause 2.22 of Police Order 327/2557 basis for extension of stay.

Some immigration offices insist that it be seasoned though.

No need to pack up and leave. Just make a trip to Vientiane to get a single entry non-o visa. Show them your income letter and bank book totaling 800k baht. The money only has to be in the bank on the date you apply. Then apply for your extension during the last 30 days of the 90 entry the visa will allow.

On the other hand it doesn't say that seasoning is not needed. We also need to bear in mind this document is an English translation.

Whenever I've seen references to amounts they usually mention seasoning. The FAQ on their website also mentions seasoning. So always I'd assumed it would be relevant for combined amounts on the lump sum element. There's a FAQ which says as much.

So basically for most of us it comes down to making assumptions. Unfortunately immigration staff often do likewise, and aren't always consistent

While it is right to be very cautious of relying on English translations of Thai regulations, in this case, the English version is a faithful reflection of the original Thai.

The problem is that Thais' reading comprehension of rules in their own language usually leaves something to be desired. Also, they cannot apply ubonjoe's logic to situations and understand the logic behind the rules.

I know this will come across as Thai bashing, and I am sorry for this. In most respects, I like the Thais and many aspects of their culture, but what I write above is the truth. In fairness, though, I am often shocked at the inability of some native English speakers to read and understand documents written in their own language.

[andybangkok]

If you think about it logically (yes I know we're in Thailand and logic usually isn't a decent argument LOL ) seasoning should apply.

Otherwise someone turns up who has THB 1,000 a month income and 790,000 baht for a few days in a bank account, just long enough to get a bank letter and show on the day and claim they comply. Where do you draw the line?

So while it may not be explicitly stated I'd expect it and it seems logical to me for once for a rule here, even if not stated. If 800k lump sum should be seasoned, so should any combination.

I agree 100% with you

The problem when you get refused like that with no warning is that you have little time to react.

Sure i can book a ticket to any country to activate a new visa.

But I did not expect that 1 week before x-mas (dec. 16 is my last day) i have to go out of Thailand

Ticket are very expensive now

So that is the real problem

Yes can be annoying. Like I say I've been picked up a few times for different minor things. Seems to be more now these days than in the past.

All you can do is learn from it for next time:

- Colour photos wanted and not black and white? Take a USB now with a selection on

- Updating the bank account and not knowing if a particular account might qualify - have two.

- Learn which banks are at CW in case they want something doing or updating.

- Bring scanned copies of any docs you might possibly need as well as originals

Closest I came to being refused was when I left a previous employer and was on an extension based on business. I decided to convert to extension based on marriage. My visa extension ran until October. I finished work officially dated a Saturday at month-end. Work cancelled my work permit but left me to deal with the visa. Monday was a bank holiday. So I went in the first available day = Tuesday. They said I'd overstayed 3 days, because when my work permit finished my visa becomes invalid. So there I was with six months remaining on my extension in my passport and they said I should have cancelled it on the Friday while at work, even though my last day was Saturday

I now extend only based on marriage and never based on business in case my job finishes. Cancelling a work permit, updating your bank book, changing your extension basis all on the same day is a challenge when your bank isn't at CW.

Marriage break up? Look at the rules on supporting a child just in case

We live and learn

There will be no next time Fletchsmile

I am moving in Cebu city January 4.

But as i was refuse my extension I have to go to Saigon dec. 16 for 1 day and come back Bkk on a 30 days visa on arrival.

But i have learn a lot here in Thailand for the last 9 years.

I always respect the visa and never have any issue here, except the last one

Edited December 1, 2015 by andybangkok

[BritTim]

If you think about it logically (yes I know we're in Thailand and logic usually isn't a decent argument LOL ) seasoning should apply.

Otherwise someone turns up who has THB 1,000 a month income and 790,000 baht for a few days in a bank account, just long enough to get a bank letter and show on the day and claim they comply. Where do you draw the line?

So while it may not be explicitly stated I'd expect it and it seems logical to me for once for a rule here, even if not stated. If 800k lump sum should be seasoned, so should any combination.

In the example you quoted, it is reasonable to insist on seasoning. However, let us take a more typical situation. Someone has a pension/other income that covers a substantial portion of the requirement. Due to exchange rate fluctuations, the amount in Thai baht cannot be predicted well in advance. To ensure you have the funds necessary to qualify for the extension, you top up your account a week or so prior to applying. It is clear that you have the combination of income and other resources, but are denied for no good reason, except the Thai immigration officials cannot read and understand Thai.

[moe666]

Thanks for all advices.

But it is the nail in the coffin for me. I quit Thailand after 9 years.

I have spend the last 4 months in Cebu , Philippines and this will be my new home now. I have already rent a condo there.

In Philippines you can be on a tourist visa for 3 years, extention every 6 months & no problem. Retirement visa is about half money put in the bank then Thailand.

I have travel many time in all Southeast Asia country and i can tell that the Philippines people are the most friendly.. And everybody speak english there.

That was my mistake to withdraw some money but I was sure that the 3 months does not need to me seasonned for combination . The rules have changed

Yet another farang bites the dust and prepares to leave. Each year seems to get harder and I wonder if they really want us in Thailand . When I renewed my extension of stay this year the girl told me I did not have enough income per month, I was astounded as l had a letter From the British Embassy stating my income which far exceeded the monthly amount required after polite conversation she realised that she had done the conversion by using US $ and not the UK £ that is how easy these people can mess up !!!! Good luck with your new venture that will be my preferred choice if they keep on changing the rules making it harder to stay !

anyone could have made that mistake

[mommysboy]

If you think about it logically (yes I know we're in Thailand and logic usually isn't a decent argument LOL ) seasoning should apply.

Otherwise someone turns up who has THB 1,000 a month income and 790,000 baht for a few days in a bank account, just long enough to get a bank letter and show on the day and claim they comply. Where do you draw the line?

So while it may not be explicitly stated I'd expect it and it seems logical to me for once for a rule here, even if not stated. If 800k lump sum should be seasoned, so should any combination.

I go by black and white. It is clear that seasoning is not a stipulation. But it really is not important as what immigration says is all that counts, to argue is futile.

[mommysboy]

They do seem to be getting strict at everything. For my extension this year i got an ''under consideration'' stamp, i have been here for 10 years. They came to my house yesterday to verify that i really live there, i thought they would just come, look at my passport and go again but the whole procedure was an hour long. Two immigration officers came that i recognized from the office,they knew me to. They called in two neighbours as witnesses who had to fill out forms and who were consequently questioned, they asked them what they did for work,what they thought of me as a person, did i behave well in the village,they asked me how much income i had in front of my neighbours even though this was known to them through the paper work in the office last week. They came fully equipped with lap top and printer and all forms were scanned many times. They were polite and friendly but very exact and strict. Is this the new normal?

You have my sympathy soalbundy, all that hassle just because they love their authority, it's all a game to them, and they

get a great kick out of messing western people around.

Yes somehow a simple address verification turned in to something quite different. You could have just declined to answer but I guess that would have been counter productive.

I am dreading my next renewal. Odd that I completely meet requirements. Personally, I may ditch the retirement visa, too much bother.

[elviajero]

If you think about it logically (yes I know we're in Thailand and logic usually isn't a decent argument LOL ) seasoning should apply.

Otherwise someone turns up who has THB 1,000 a month income and 790,000 baht for a few days in a bank account, just long enough to get a bank letter and show on the day and claim they comply. Where do you draw the line?

So while it may not be explicitly stated I'd expect it and it seems logical to me for once for a rule here, even if not stated. If 800k lump sum should be seasoned, so should any combination.

I go by black and white. It is clear that seasoning is not a stipulation. But it really is not important as what immigration says is all that counts, to argue is futile.

I agree that arguing is futile but the immigration website is clear that seasoning is required for the combination method.

IMO the police orders that get quoted on this forum can be interpreted two ways, but regardless it's important to know that they are not the only instructions that the IO's go by.

[expatbrit]

If you think about it logically (yes I know we're in Thailand and logic usually isn't a decent argument LOL ) seasoning should apply.

Otherwise someone turns up who has THB 1,000 a month income and 790,000 baht for a few days in a bank account, just long enough to get a bank letter and show on the day and claim they comply. Where do you draw the line?

So while it may not be explicitly stated I'd expect it and it seems logical to me for once for a rule here, even if not stated. If 800k lump sum should be seasoned, so should any combination.

I go by black and white. It is clear that seasoning is not a stipulation. But it really is not important as what immigration says is all that counts, to argue is futile.

I agree that arguing is futile but the immigration website is clear that seasoning is required for the combination method.

IMO the police orders that get quoted on this forum can be interpreted two ways, but regardless it's important to know that they are not the only instructions that the IO's go by.

The generous "no seasoning required" approach to the "combo method" used to be the default position of most immigration offices/officers.

What has changed is that immigration may have detected that "creative" means have been used to achieve the 800,000 Bht required.

Much more difficult (and expensive ? ) to use "creative" means if a bank balance has to be maintained for 3 months instead of just a few days.

[mommysboy]

Thanks for all advices.

But it is the nail in the coffin for me. I quit Thailand after 9 years.

I have spend the last 4 months in Cebu , Philippines and this will be my new home now. I have already rent a condo there.

In Philippines you can be on a tourist visa for 3 years, extention every 6 months & no problem. Retirement visa is about half money put in the bank then Thailand.

I have travel many time in all Southeast Asia country and i can tell that the Philippines people are the most friendly.. And everybody speak english there.

That was my mistake to withdraw some money but I was sure that the 3 months does not need to me seasonned for combination . The rules have changed

Yet another farang bites the dust and prepares to leave. Each year seems to get harder and I wonder if they really want us in Thailand . When I renewed my extension of stay this year the girl told me I did not have enough income per month, I was astounded as l had a letter From the British Embassy stating my income which far exceeded the monthly amount required after polite conversation she realised that she had done the conversion by using US $ and not the UK £ that is how easy these people can mess up !!!! Good luck with your new venture that will be my preferred choice if they keep on changing the rules making it harder to stay !

anyone could have made that mistake

They don't want some of us in Thailand that's for sure. I think they would probably be happier with 5 star tourists, and a smattering of single pensioners with a very generous but easily depleted bank balance providing they don't become a burden.

Which is their right, but why not just say that, so we all know where we stand.

What gets me is it is only a temporary extension of stay, yet they behave like it is permanent residence or nationality !

[ebonykap]

I did my first retirement extension at CW last Friday. In at 9:30, out at 11:30. All in all a delightful experience. A lovely IO and a friendly supervisor. Made sure I had everything required, and more if necessary. I use the combination of funds method with my bank funds in Bangkok Bank, no ATM card attached and a big "Do not touch" stencilled in my brain. A little extra deposited to allow for any fluctuations in the exchange rate.

Through the years i have learnt to be empathetic with immigration, as I am sure they have to deal with some pretty shady customers. Keep them happy with all the information they require and you will get a smile and a thank you in return. .

[TheKnave]

Thailands rules are really harsh , What a hassel for the OP for a minor infringement, I hope it all works out mate .

The problem is that for a long time many of the rules were not strictly enforced and many people gamed the system and bent the rules at their convenience and now things have become less flexible as a consequence.

Everyone is all for strict enforcement of the laws for other people, as long as it doesn't effect them, but then they want flexibility if it creates an inconvenience for them personally.

Utterly obtuse.

The 'rule' has been interpreted in varying ways, according to Immigration office location. Previously, CW was consistent in applying the rule, as written. No seasoning for the combination method required.

Now, they are choosing to (mis)interpret the rule to effect an agenda, clearly, and likely from way above...

Your protests are arrogant and infantile, and further prove YOUR agenda. So boring as to be trollish.

Give it a rest.

[JLCrab]

Persons on the METV topic (or mainly one person in particular) were dubious as to why someone on 8 consecutive extensions of stay based upon retirement might be interested in the Multiple entry visa obtained in one's home country (in my case USA). Well just read this topic.

[puukao]

no time to read comments, but this is EXACTLY why it's a horrible idea to retire in Thailand.

fantastic country. nice language. food is fine. people are generally great. weather is ....... depends. and i think it's the best place in SE Asia.

But I am 100% positive much more of this will happen soon...

Soon the regulations will get worse, worse, and worse.....farangs will lose more, more and more......and they can't do one thing about it.....

i say 3-6 months a year......and retire somewhere else.

if you can, of course.

[soalbundy]

no time to read comments, but this is EXACTLY why it's a horrible idea to retire in Thailand.

fantastic country. nice language. food is fine. people are generally great. weather is ....... depends. and i think it's the best place in SE Asia.

But I am 100% positive much more of this will happen soon...

Soon the regulations will get worse, worse, and worse.....farangs will lose more, more and more......and they can't do one thing about it.....

i say 3-6 months a year......and retire somewhere else.

if you can, of course.

I think that the situation for us will improve once Thailand returns to a democratically elected government

[JLCrab]

I make no prognostication on the future of retirement extension just that they have introduced the METV and -- being the self-righteous person that I am -- I am concerned how it might benefit me. Since I return to the USA just about yearly anyway and live close to the Friendship Bridge at Vientiane, I could stay in Thailand long-term and maybe never have to visit an Immigration office ever again. YMMV.

Edited December 1, 2015 by JLCrab

[Jessi]

no time to read comments, but this is EXACTLY why it's a horrible idea to retire in Thailand.

fantastic country. nice language. food is fine. people are generally great. weather is ....... depends. and i think it's the best place in SE Asia.

But I am 100% positive much more of this will happen soon...

Soon the regulations will get worse, worse, and worse.....farangs will lose more, more and more......and they can't do one thing about it.....

i say 3-6 months a year......and retire somewhere else.

if you can, of course.

I think that the situation for us will improve once Thailand returns to a democratically elected government

If you can wait that long.

[Jessi]

no time to read comments, but this is EXACTLY why it's a horrible idea to retire in Thailand.

fantastic country. nice language. food is fine. people are generally great. weather is ....... depends. and i think it's the best place in SE Asia.

But I am 100% positive much more of this will happen soon...

Soon the regulations will get worse, worse, and worse.....farangs will lose more, more and more......and they can't do one thing about it.....

i say 3-6 months a year......and retire somewhere else.

if you can, of course.

The ones that can not move out because of family and buying real estate here are stuck here.

It would be a lot easier if all Immigration offices stuck to the rules and not be left to some Immigration officer who might be having a bad day.

[NoshowJones]

They do seem to be getting strict at everything. For my extension this year i got an ''under consideration'' stamp, i have been here for 10 years. They came to my house yesterday to verify that i really live there, i thought they would just come, look at my passport and go again but the whole procedure was an hour long. Two immigration officers came that i recognized from the office,they knew me to. They called in two neighbours as witnesses who had to fill out forms and who were consequently questioned, they asked them what they did for work,what they thought of me as a person, did i behave well in the village,they asked me how much income i had in front of my neighbours even though this was known to them through the paper work in the office last week. They came fully equipped with lap top and printer and all forms were scanned many times. They were polite and friendly but very exact and strict. Is this the new normal?

You have my sympathy soalbundy, all that hassle just because they love their authority, it's all a game to them, and they

get a great kick out of messing western people around.

Yes somehow a simple address verification turned in to something quite different. You could have just declined to answer but I guess that would have been counter productive.

I am dreading my next renewal. Odd that I completely meet requirements. Personally, I may ditch the retirement visa, too much bother.

That's why I ditched it, may be forced into it eventually when long motorbike trips for border runs get too hard, but that's a long way off yet.

[ubonjoe]

I agree that arguing is futile but the immigration website is clear that seasoning is required for the combination method.

IMO the police orders that get quoted on this forum can be interpreted two ways, but regardless it's important to know that they are not the only instructions that the IO's go by.

That is only your opinion and it is not what it says. It says documents not anything about requirements.

The FAQ section on a the immigration is certainly not official. Only the police order counts and it states seasoning in is not needed. That part of the police order has not changed since about 2006 or before.

[LatPhrao]

Has anyone had recent experience renewing/extending a Retirement Visa with US passport and notarized statement of income from the US Embassy?

The notarized income statement has been sufficient in the past at Chaengwattana. Will be applying for my 3rd year of Retirement visa in a week's time.

[ubonjoe]

Has anyone had recent experience renewing/extending a Retirement Visa with US passport and notarized statement of income from the US Embassy?

The notarized income statement has been sufficient in the past at Chaengwattana. Will be applying for my 3rd year of Retirement visa in a week's time.

No problems reported when using the income method.

[LatPhrao]

Thank you Ubonjoe!

[jollyhangmon]

Persons on the METV topic (or mainly one person in particular) were dubious as to why someone on 8 consecutive extensions of stay based upon retirement might be interested in the Multiple entry visa obtained in one's home country (in my case USA). Well just read this topic.

Roger that, as long as one travels back home often enough that is ...

Or another angle like making retirement-extensions (as these foreigners are seriously hooked already) just a bit more arduous and annoying step by step to push them towards that underfrequented 'Elite'-thingy ...?

Strike of a genius, no doubt - NOT of course, already starting to backfire which does't come as a big surprise at all ...

[JLCrab]

Persons on the METV topic (or mainly one person in particular) were dubious as to why someone on 8 consecutive extensions of stay based upon retirement might be interested in the Multiple entry visa obtained in one's home country (in my case USA). Well just read this topic.

Roger that, as long as one travels back home often enough that is ...

Or another angle like making retirement-extensions (as these foreigners are seriously hooked already) just a bit more arduous and annoying step by step to push them towards that underfrequented 'Elite'-thingy ...?

Strike of a genius, no doubt - NOT of course, already starting to backfire which does't come as a big surprise at all ...

Well, again, only if retirement extensions became unduly onerous but 8 months on an METV plus some combination of Tourist visas with or without extensions and 30-day visa exempt entries for an American could push the stay in Thailand to over one year between stateside trips. Also helps to live reasonably close to the bridge at Vientiane.

[BritTim]

I think that the situation for us will improve once Thailand returns to a democratically elected government

I think that the situation for us will improve once if Thailand returns to a democratically elected government

Actually, though, I think it would make little difference. The Thai elite, who decide such things, have become steadily more xenophobic over the years, a trend I expect to see continue.

[jollyhangmon]

Persons on the METV topic (or mainly one person in particular) were dubious as to why someone on 8 consecutive extensions of stay based upon retirement might be interested in the Multiple entry visa obtained in one's home country (in my case USA). Well just read this topic.

Roger that, as long as one travels back home often enough that is ...

Or another angle like making retirement-extensions (as these foreigners are seriously hooked already) just a bit more arduous and annoying step by step to push them towards that underfrequented 'Elite'-thingy ...?

Strike of a genius, no doubt - NOT of course, already starting to backfire which does't come as a big surprise at all ...

Well, again, only if retirement extensions became unduly onerous but 8 months on an METV plus some combination of Tourist visas with or without extensions and 30-day visa exempt entries for an American could push the stay in Thailand to over one year between stateside trips. Also helps to live reasonably close to the bridge at Vientiane.

Understood.

But how would you meet this 'proof of employment' METV-requirement then?

Seems to be seriously farfetched anyway, i mean how many employees could actually afford to travel around for 6 to almost 9 months ...