TM28/TM30 avoiding fines if on extensions.

[Tywais]

Not sure why it keeps being mentioned that this is a new rule/law. It has been the law since 1979. Here is the full 1979 Immigration Act.pdf

Stricter enforcement is most likely due to the events that have occurred over the last several months and the Junta. Nothing new about sudden enforcement of an old rule. I never did a 90 day report for over 10 years when I moved here as there was no enforcement and everyone told me it wasn't important. It caught up with me at an annual extension where it was clear they weren't given the extension until I settled up with the 90 day requirement.

I didn't whine about it as I knew it was the law and haven't been late since. All the complaining and moaning about it is not going to change the fact that it is an old requirement but now being enforced.

This topic is really redundant to the ones running in the Visa forum and making the same noises, complaints and circular arguments.

[cmsally]

I don't see how this works , as it would mean every tourist would have to file a TM28 in every destination they visit . How would that work?

[naboo]

I don't see how this works , as it would mean every tourist would have to file a TM28 in every destination they visit . How would that work?

Well, they go to the local immigration office every time they move.

What more could you ask for on your 10 day annual holiday? Fun, fun, fun in Thailand!

[cmsally]

So are they going to fine all the tourists as they leave the country ?

Say you spent 2 weeks in Thailand and more than 24hrs in each place.

Say you visited Chiang Mai, Bangkok, Kanchanaburi, Khao Lak and Koh Lanta.

That is at least 5 TM28s you should have filed.

Then hey maybe your hotel of choice in one place was full on a couple of nights so you had to move across town.

Another TM28 I guess. How much of your time would you waste in that 2 weeks going to immigration - that would be compounded by

the tourist having to find the the office in each place. The whole thing could get really screwed up if you are there on a weekend.

[NancyL]

You're suppose to file TM28/TM30 reports at Imm. Prom. now and they don't seem to be fining people if they come in voluntarily and say they didn't know about the law. You just show up and submit the documents. No need for all the charade that the OP went thru.

Some condo juristic person mgr offices are set up to file TM 30 reports on-line. Ours is and they print out a receipt to staple in your passport. I don't think there is a need to file a separate TM28. It's my understanding that the TM30 is all that's needed.

[LivinLOS]

This topic is really redundant to the ones running in the Visa forum and making the same noises, complaints and circular arguments.

I figure.. Its not redundant if people read it and do the TM28s and simply refuse to be responsible for their landlords reporting problems.

As I now have.

[LivinLOS]

You're suppose to file TM28/TM30 reports at Imm. Prom. now and they don't seem to be fining people if they come in voluntarily and say they didn't know about the law. You just show up and submit the documents. No need for all the charade that the OP went thru.

It felt to me, but I have no way of knowing, that I would have been fined without pushing the 'charade'.. At a few times she tried to say I would be fined but I made a credible lie why not to be.

I will be watching to see how those who do no charade get on.. Now and over the next months.

[NancyL]

You're suppose to file TM28/TM30 reports at Imm. Prom. now and they don't seem to be fining people if they come in voluntarily and say they didn't know about the law. You just show up and submit the documents. No need for all the charade that the OP went thru.

It felt to me, but I have no way of knowing, that I would have been fined without pushing the 'charade'.. At a few times she tried to say I would be fined but I made a credible lie why not to be.

I will be watching to see how those who do no charade get on.. Now and over the next months.

The office you went to is the "enforcement" office. You should have gone to Imm. Prom. which is the reporting office for TM28/TM30.

[Tywais]

This topic is really redundant to the ones running in the Visa forum and making the same noises, complaints and circular arguments.

I figure.. Its not redundant if people read it and do the TM28s and simply refuse to be responsible for their landlords reporting problems.

As I now have.

TM28s have nothing to do with the landlords, that is the foreigners sole responsibility. It's the TM30 so at least get your details correct before causing more confusion. This topic may not last as it is causing unnecessary confusion and dealt with in the Visa topics more elegantly and accurately. TM28s have not been enforced for a long time nor are there reports that they are currently as per Ubonjoe. Certainly that may change in the future but at the moment it is the TM30s that are under the microscope.

As has been posted many times in the main Visa topics, the 'possessor', that is the tenant, is just as culpable as the landlord for failing to file.

Please download and read the actual law that I posted a link to above for clarity.

[northernjohn]

OK so..

I dont think they are bothering to get things like this printed and ready, if they dont intend a drive of enforcement and fines to go hand in hand with it !!!

Feel free to ignore.. But my gut says they dont do this without a reason.

EDIT :: the obvious assumption is this was apparently told to immigration to 'solve' in sept.. straight after the august bangkok bombing.. And now the junta want to know where all non Thais are at all times ?? with a 24 hour window.. Seems to fit the timeline no ??

To be honest I really don't have a grip on all the rules or even know what the various visas and

what not are out there.

But it seems to me that shortly before this current situation became popular to talk about the

head of immigration was told by the PM to straighten out his department. It was done in such

a way that it was pubic knowledge.

Could this have any thing to do with it?

Edit

sorry I did not realize this was one of those where you had to slide the screen over to read the

whole print. Or make the print smaller.

Edited December 1, 2015 by northernjohn

[Tywais]

To be honest I really don't have a grip on all the rules or even know what the various visas and what not are out there.

But it seems to me that shortly before this current situation became popular to talk about the head of immigration was told by the PM to straighten out his department. It was done in such a way that it was pubic knowledge. Could this have any thing to do with it?

This is happening across Thailand and not specific to Chiang Mai.

[northernjohn]

To be honest I really don't have a grip on all the rules or even know what the various visas and what not are out there.

But it seems to me that shortly before this current situation became popular to talk about the head of immigration was told by the PM to straighten out his department. It was done in such a way that it was pubic knowledge. Could this have any thing to do with it?

This is happening across Thailand and not specific to Chiang Mai.

It was the head of all immigration in Thailand that was told to straighten his department

out not just Chiang Mai.

[Tywais]

To be honest I really don't have a grip on all the rules or even know what the various visas and what not are out there.

But it seems to me that shortly before this current situation became popular to talk about the head of immigration was told by the PM to straighten out his department. It was done in such a way that it was pubic knowledge. Could this have any thing to do with it?

This is happening across Thailand and not specific to Chiang Mai.

It was the head of all immigration in Thailand that was told to straighten his department

out not just Chiang Mai.

This topic was about the TM30s and enforcement, which is taking place across Thailand. And my response was to your "Could this have any thing to do with it?". He is not being singled out, appears all offices are being required to 'straighten out'.

[davehowden]

When you stay in a hotel in Thailand they are supposed to do the TM 30 on-line, yet the customer does not do a TM28, how do they do the "matching up" in that situation ??

[LivinLOS]

You're suppose to file TM28/TM30 reports at Imm. Prom. now and they don't seem to be fining people if they come in voluntarily and say they didn't know about the law. You just show up and submit the documents. No need for all the charade that the OP went thru.

It felt to me, but I have no way of knowing, that I would have been fined without pushing the 'charade'.. At a few times she tried to say I would be fined but I made a credible lie why not to be.

I will be watching to see how those who do no charade get on.. Now and over the next months.

The office you went to is the "enforcement" office. You should have gone to Imm. Prom. which is the reporting office for TM28/TM30.

I asked that... And she told me no.. any immigration office in the country is fine.. And as I was on married visa it was totally normal to go there.

[LivinLOS]

This topic is really redundant to the ones running in the Visa forum and making the same noises, complaints and circular arguments.

I figure.. Its not redundant if people read it and do the TM28s and simply refuse to be responsible for their landlords reporting problems.

As I now have.

TM28s have nothing to do with the landlords, that is the foreigners sole responsibility. It's the TM30 so at least get your details correct before causing more confusion. This topic may not last as it is causing unnecessary confusion and dealt with in the Visa topics more elegantly and accurately. TM28s have not been enforced for a long time nor are there reports that they are currently as per Ubonjoe. Certainly that may change in the future but at the moment it is the TM30s that are under the microscope.

As has been posted many times in the main Visa topics, the 'possessor', that is the tenant, is just as culpable as the landlord for failing to file.

Please download and read the actual law that I posted a link to above for clarity.

No your missing my point from the OP..

I went to do my TM28.. She then would not initially do it, without my landlord coming to do the TM30.. She then tried to give me 'a couple of days grace' to get my landlord to appear.. Then she said I would not have a problem for the late filing of a TM28 for even a week (generous huh) but I pointed out I had to do a 90 day report in the next 2 days. Then she wanted me to bring a representative of the landlord.. Basically she tried for about half an hour to make me get the person responsible for the TM30 to come so that the TM28 and TM30 would 'link up on the computer' as she kept putting it.

I kept refusing to have anything to do with my landlords TM30 reporting issues. I pushed until she finally let me do my TM28 without him.

Its not redundant if people read it and do the TM28s and simply refuse to be responsible for their landlords reporting problems.

See what I mean ??

I am confirming.. With 100% firm proof.. That people are being fined when at a 90 day report when they dont have a TM28 in the passport in Chiang mai last week. If that fine was his TM28 or passing the buck to blaming his wife for not filing a TM30, even tho she is a 3rd party and not the home owner, that I couldnt confirm. Either way, by having a TM28 I have done my legal requirement, I (or my wife) will not pay a fine thats for the landlord failing to do a TM30.

Your saying its the TM30, missed the point they are fining the farangs (or their wives) for the failure of the Thai homeowner. Hence my Topic title of 'avoiding fines' by filing the TM28 as proof you did your bit. Even tho they try to not let you do it and push for you to make your landlord comply.

Edited December 2, 2015 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

To be honest I really don't have a grip on all the rules or even know what the various visas and what not are out there.

But it seems to me that shortly before this current situation became popular to talk about the head of immigration was told by the PM to straighten out his department. It was done in such a way that it was pubic knowledge. Could this have any thing to do with it?

This is happening across Thailand and not specific to Chiang Mai.

It was the head of all immigration in Thailand that was told to straighten his department

out not just Chiang Mai.

This topic was about the TM30s and enforcement, which is taking place across Thailand. And my response was to your "Could this have any thing to do with it?". He is not being singled out, appears all offices are being required to 'straighten out'.

Well actually its about Chiang Mai fining people on extensions for a lack of TM28 in the passport at reporting time..

They have even printed a pamphlet, to show they can fine 2000b for TM28 failures.

I wait to hear more confirms or anecdotal reports. The fact they have printed materials makes me think this is not a random thing.

[LivinLOS]

When you stay in a hotel in Thailand they are supposed to do the TM 30 on-line, yet the customer does not do a TM28, how do they do the "matching up" in that situation ??

God knows like I said.. From asking lots of questions, and chatting for about half an hour or more.. Its obvious this is not a tight system... "they intend to be lenient" on short term enforcement but cant say how lenient, 2 days, 7 days, ?? If I stay one night in many places on tour and am away for 2 weeks, I must do one on return even tho there wont be any TM30s in the mean time ?? Does my buddy have to do a TM30 for each night a mate sleeps over ?? One night ?? 2 nights ?? What if someone gets there at 1am and leaves at dawn ?? Is that a night ??

Theres no clear definitions.. All very vague.

The mere fact that Thailand now insists on 3 separate flapping pieces of paper stapled into passports kind of shows how weak its all getting.. Not talking about hologramed, copy proof, stick in visa pages or something but 3 bits of printed paper torn of a bit of A4 with a ruler.. Hardly 2105 is it ??

[tigermonkey]

The solution is to not live or visit too close to an immigration office. The act allows for the alien to resister his completed TM28 at the local RTP station. Have fun with that one! They will call you 'crazy farang' and chase you out - I tried a few years ago at the Ban Hong police station.

[soalbundy]

I don't understand this, why bother reporting at all ? I do my 90 day reporting and that's it as far as i am concerned, if i go anywhere with the missus and present my passport at the hotel desk they say,'we book the room on your wife's ID it's easier for us' problem finished.

[LivinLOS]

I don't understand this, why bother reporting at all ? I do my 90 day reporting and that's it as far as i am concerned, if i go anywhere with the missus and present my passport at the hotel desk they say,'we book the room on your wife's ID it's easier for us' problem finished.

Lets see how the next 90 day report goes. I have only one person so far that I know as verified but he was fined 2000b late last week on his 90 day time..

I did my 90 day report.. once I had my TM28 in there and he ABSOLUTELY was checking for it..

EDIT :: She also said 90 day reporting would not work online if the 28/30 wasnt 'linked' 'in the computer'.. Vague I know but she said that multiple times.

Edited December 2, 2015 by LivinLOS

[soalbundy]

I don't understand this, why bother reporting at all ? I do my 90 day reporting and that's it as far as i am concerned, if i go anywhere with the missus and present my passport at the hotel desk they say,'we book the room on your wife's ID it's easier for us' problem finished.

Lets see how the next 90 day report goes. I have only one person so far that I know as verified but he was fined 2000b late last week on his 90 day time..

I did my 90 day report.. once I had my TM28 in there and he ABSOLUTELY was checking for it..

Fined for what ? if you don't go on journey's you don't need to fill in a TM 28, in my case if i go to Bangkok with the wife the hotels all seem to want to book the room in my wife's name so i haven't officially gone anywhere.

[LivinLOS]

I don't understand this, why bother reporting at all ? I do my 90 day reporting and that's it as far as i am concerned, if i go anywhere with the missus and present my passport at the hotel desk they say,'we book the room on your wife's ID it's easier for us' problem finished.

Lets see how the next 90 day report goes. I have only one person so far that I know as verified but he was fined 2000b late last week on his 90 day time..

I did my 90 day report.. once I had my TM28 in there and he ABSOLUTELY was checking for it..

Fined for what ? if you don't go on journey's you don't need to fill in a TM 28, in my case if i go to Bangkok with the wife the hotels all seem to want to book the room in my wife's name so i haven't officially gone anywhere.

All I can say is.. he is on an annual extension at that address.. He does his 90 day reports at that address.. They already have that address.. He went no where.

And he still got a 2000b fine last week for not complying with this.. When he went to do his 90 day in person.

People are reporting the same from Jomtien.. Going to get a proof of address letter for a driving license and being fined for not having formally notified the address. As per the OP she said 90 day eD visa extensions wont be done unless the address is 'linked' with the 2 forms (28/.30).

[soalbundy]

I don't understand this, why bother reporting at all ? I do my 90 day reporting and that's it as far as i am concerned, if i go anywhere with the missus and present my passport at the hotel desk they say,'we book the room on your wife's ID it's easier for us' problem finished.

Lets see how the next 90 day report goes. I have only one person so far that I know as verified but he was fined 2000b late last week on his 90 day time..

I did my 90 day report.. once I had my TM28 in there and he ABSOLUTELY was checking for it..

Fined for what ? if you don't go on journey's you don't need to fill in a TM 28, in my case if i go to Bangkok with the wife the hotels all seem to want to book the room in my wife's name so i haven't officially gone anywhere.

All I can say is.. he is on an annual extension at that address.. He does his 90 day reports at that address.. They already have that address.. He went no where.

And he still got a 2000b fine last week for not complying with this.. When he went to do his 90 day in person.

People are reporting the same from Jomtien.. Going to get a proof of address letter for a driving license and being fined for not having formally notified the address. As per the OP she said 90 day eD visa extensions wont be done unless the address is 'linked' with the 2 forms (28/.30).

i'm totally confused, i do my 90 day report, then what? fill out a TM28 ? WHY? do they want a TM28 EVERY 24 HOURS even though i'm not leaving the house?

[LivinLOS]

I don't understand this, why bother reporting at all ? I do my 90 day reporting and that's it as far as i am concerned, if i go anywhere with the missus and present my passport at the hotel desk they say,'we book the room on your wife's ID it's easier for us' problem finished.

Lets see how the next 90 day report goes. I have only one person so far that I know as verified but he was fined 2000b late last week on his 90 day time..

I did my 90 day report.. once I had my TM28 in there and he ABSOLUTELY was checking for it..

Fined for what ? if you don't go on journey's you don't need to fill in a TM 28, in my case if i go to Bangkok with the wife the hotels all seem to want to book the room in my wife's name so i haven't officially gone anywhere.

Because it had never been done.. It has to have been done once.. Sure you may not have gone anywhere, but did you do it the first time (no, it wasnt enforced).

The TM47 isnt it.. Doing your annual extensions isnt it..

Thats sort of the whole point of this thread. My experiences is they are introducing the old law, and fining people based on non compliance of something they never enforced before.

[LivinLOS]

All I can say is.. he is on an annual extension at that address.. He does his 90 day reports at that address.. They already have that address.. He went no where.

And he still got a 2000b fine last week for not complying with this.. When he went to do his 90 day in person.

People are reporting the same from Jomtien.. Going to get a proof of address letter for a driving license and being fined for not having formally notified the address. As per the OP she said 90 day eD visa extensions wont be done unless the address is 'linked' with the 2 forms (28/.30).

i'm totally confused, i do my 90 day report, then what? fill out a TM28 ? WHY? do they want a TM28 EVERY 24 HOURS even though i'm not leaving the house?

Once.. Until you go away from home. Surely thats obvious... Not every day.. just once..

They seem to want the TM30 in the system, which is the landlords job.. But seem to be fining the farangs as a way to force them to get the landlord to do the TM30.. By saying ahh you never did this.. When its done, you get the TM28 stapled in your passport (and she claims it will be seen as 'linked' on the system but lets face it thats too vague to be sure on).

I assume this is why she was so resistant to accepting my TM28.. Just bring your landlord.. get his wife.. get his agent.. get his rep..

[DavidOxon]

OK.... so my wife went to Imm this morning and got me a nice new TM30. APPARENTLY (they said to her) that you need a new one every time you leave the country OR STAY IN ANOTHER PROVINCE! She was also told that she (houseowner) didn't need a TM28, just a copy of my TM 30 will do for her too. Every time you leave the country or register in a Thai hotel/guesthouse in another province where they should be reporting you, you need a new TM30 when you get back to Chiang Mai... within 24 hours!

That makes life easier I guess!!! (NOT)

They will be coordinating it all on a central database and fining the non compliers!

Well, that's what they're saying today anyway!

[LivinLOS]

OK.... so my wife went to Imm this morning and got me a nice new TM30. APPARENTLY (they said to her) that you need a new one every time you leave the country OR STAY IN ANOTHER PROVINCE! She was also told that she (houseowner) didn't need a TM28, just a copy of my TM 30 will do for her too. Every time you leave the country or register in a Thai hotel/guesthouse in another province where they should be reporting you, you need a new TM30 when you get back to Chiang Mai... within 24 hours!

That makes life easier I guess!!! (NOT)

They will be coordinating it all on a central database and fining the non compliers!

Well, that's what they're saying today anyway!

thank you.. I was starting to feel like a lone voice in the wilderness..

Do you (your wife) own your own home ?? That would make sense on a TM30 aspect.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yes.. We just submitted my TM30 using their ancient computer system that will only work properly with a prehistoric version of Internet Explorer.

But this is the first I hear of a TM28 form. I looked it up and it seems a change of address form. I get the feeling that the OP needlessly over-complicated everthing with stories of two addresses he lives at.

I think normally the hotel or condo or landlord of the place you stay at fills in their TM30 (their requirement) and that's it?

But doing your 90 day report online is not the same (isnt a TM47 ??) and a different system from the old but new enforcement of TM28/30..

Did the TM30 as stated, not 90 Day report.

[LivinLOS]

Yes.. We just submitted my TM30 using their ancient computer system that will only work properly with a prehistoric version of Internet Explorer.

But this is the first I hear of a TM28 form. I looked it up and it seems a change of address form. I get the feeling that the OP needlessly over-complicated everthing with stories of two addresses he lives at.

I think normally the hotel or condo or landlord of the place you stay at fills in their TM30 (their requirement) and that's it?

But doing your 90 day report online is not the same (isnt a TM47 ??) and a different system from the old but new enforcement of TM28/30..

Did the TM30 as stated, not 90 Day report.

OK whats the link.. No one said you could do the TM30 online..

Odd then as that negates the whole 'your landlord has to come here to' etc which she was really pushing for.. I offered to get him to sign the forms and return but she was adamant him or his rep (but I could not be his rep) had to do it.