What qualifies as an experienced rider?

[BBJ]

I love the tone of my fellow UK riders with the comment of "I've been riding for years". Most of my mates back in the UK got their bikes out 2 months for a few weekends every year. Yet a few I know who I have met here have built up more miles in the 2-3 years they have been riding than some I know who have ridden for 20 years plus.

I understand there or those how have ridden for a short time and have no respect for the road, but the same could be said for bikers who have held a license for some time.

IMO, if you have good road sense via driving a car then you're on the right path to be an experienced rider. And for those who are experienced drivers that have turned to riding and clocking some serious miles, in my book are more experienced. Hours actually on the bike is real experience, not the years you've held a license. Of course there are those who have ridden for years and built serious miles over their life-time. But my brother is a prime example. He obtained his license when he was 17 (Now 46) and owned a Honda XL125 if I remember at the time, stole my dad's Honda GL1100 GoldWing for a day before he came back for work, yet he has used the big-man talk in the past claiming his experience. Another pal owned an R1 and held a license for over 10 years at the time. Rode it during the summer-time in the UK, and we all know how reliable the weather is there!

I've bumped into a few fellow biker who always throw in the years they have been riding during a conversation which tends to go in one ear and out of the other, but I do wonder at times, just how many hours they have actually put into a bike?

[Richard-BKK]

To say it crude if you think you know it all or think you are a experienced rider is what you get killed. I ride all sort of motorcyles,since 1984... And I'm still learning... looking and thinking ...

[Gonsalviz]

As Richard says, if someone is bragging about his experience, he probably doesn't have much.

Anyone comfortable in the saddle just rides and really doesn't talk about it unless asked.

[thrilled]

I've been riding since 1967.I know the streets,roads,alley ways are treacherous in Thailand.It don't make any difference how experienced you are when your stopped at A traffic light and A vehicle comes and runs you over.Thats just 1 of many things that can injury you or worse.Maybe get hit broadside by someone running A traffic light.Supposely beng an experienced rider you

See how to get out of A would be accident til you don't.Thailand is one of the worse countries for vehicle accidents.

I still ride A few places in Thailand but not everywhere.I'm not looking for A death wish.

[papa al]

if you can wheelie half a block in control, you are experienced.

[expatbrit]

if you can wheelie half a block in control, you are experienced.

No !

Just a fool who takes unnecessary risk !

[CarolJadzia]

This has actually been raised as an issue in regard to testing standards or in fact the current way of obtaining a full licence anywhere in the world.

I spent many years doing Direct Access Test training, 5 days on average from total novice to full licence. People could and still can pass their tests without having ridden on a wet road. No motorway or night driving included either. Yet the driving test is where the standard is set. In all my years of training very few of the people who have come through the system have ever done any post test training, yet the full licence is classed as there qualification as an experienced rider.

I have friends who have been riding for years who will not ride in the rain, or some even take their motorcycles off the road for the winter months.

I have also worked with qualified Instructors who do not ride in cities as they find it too much.

One things for sure, a five day direct access course is not enough experience for anyone. But from then on many minds are closed as it's also human nature to think we are better than we are.

We all keep on learning, that's what it's all about.

Experience counts, can never get enough.

[expatbrit]

Get a motor cycle traffic policeman to check your riding ability !

There are few who could match the policeman's skill and situational awareness unless they have undergone advanced training.

[expatbrit]

Worth buying and reading !

http://www.roadcraft.co.uk/motorcycle-roadcraft

[CarolJadzia]

Get a motor cycle traffic policeman to check your riding ability !

There are few who could match the policeman's skill and situational awareness unless they have undergone advanced training.

I assume you are referring to the UK rather than Thailand as Traffic Officers in Thailand currently lack any advanced training. I actually have some looking to learn from me soon as I can get to Samui.

We have a scheme currently in the UK called Bike Safe that is run by Police Riders but unfortunately with government cut backs it has been whittled down to a one day course that is only an introduction to advanced riding.

The police use a manual called Roadcraft for driver and rider training. Here is an except PDF from it Cornering, Balance and avoiding skids

It is a well written teaching aid that holds some good information.

Only it's System of motorcycle control has limitations. It works when people play by the rules but often that is not the case.

We are working on a new approach. Rather than the current blame game of always trying to find fault with others, we look to learning why accidents happen and avoiding the causes.

No Surprise / No Accident.

[expatbrit]

Get a motor cycle traffic policeman to check your riding ability !

There are few who could match the policeman's skill and situational awareness unless they have undergone advanced training.

I assume you are referring to the UK rather than Thailand as Traffic Officers in Thailand currently lack any advanced training. I actually have some looking to learn from me soon as I can get to Samui.

We have a scheme currently in the UK called Bike Safe that is run by Police Riders but unfortunately with government cut backs it has been whittled down to a one day course that is only an introduction to advanced riding.

The police use a manual called Roadcraft for driver and rider training. Here is an except PDF from it Cornering, Balance and avoiding skids

It is a well written teaching aid that holds some good information.

Only it's System of motorcycle control has limitations. It works when people play by the rules but often that is not the case.

We are working on a new approach. Rather than the current blame game of always trying to find fault with others, we look to learning why accidents happen and avoiding the causes.

No Surprise / No Accident.

Good links ! I beat you to it with Roadcraft which I believe should be mandatory reading for all riders .......

Developing a high degree of situational awareness will prevent many accidents as will riding within ones own acknowledged ability.

[CarolJadzia]

You might find this interesting thairoadcraft.wordpress.com

[expatbrit]

You might find this interesting thairoadcraft.wordpress.com

Thank you and good luck with the project ! You will need it

[CarolJadzia]

You might find this interesting thairoadcraft.wordpress.com

Thank you and good luck with the project ! You will need it

Cheers.

Fortunately I have a good group of supporters that is slowly growing.

Not enough for me to jump on a jet yet. But getting there

[Throttled]

If 'hours on the bike' is such an important factor, why are the Thais (most of whom grew up riding bikes and many of whom have owned no other form of transportation) generally such terrible and unsafe riders, and why do they have such a high vehicular death rate? Time in the saddle is very important, but so is a desire to actually become a better rider. Basic competency is one thing, but being skilled is quite another. An 'experienced rider' has both many kilometers AND training/practice (beyond simply getting from point 'A' to point 'B') on his/her CV. A newish (with a couple years and several thousand km experience- not a total newb) rider who has been properly taught can exhibit greater skills than one with decades of experience and hundreds of thousands of kms but no desire to actually learn how to properly and safely ride.

[BBJ]

if you can wheelie half a block in control, you are experienced.

At last, the response I was looking for. Front wheel stoppies as well!

[guzzi850m2]

Interesting topic, Thais are actually mostly very good riders in my opinion well not safety wise, read further below.

Many show very high skill level controlling the bike but traffic awareness is a different matter.

One time in Pattaya I was sitting at a red light on my Versys and this young Thai dude on his Kawa Z800 pulled up next to me.

When green light he did an extremely well executed wheelie and controlling the rear brake in the process so he was sometimes over 90 deg up in the air and controlling the angle with the rear brake, impressive man.

No safety kit off-course but long jeans and sun glasses, he-he, man I felt old.

I think us Westerners having a difficult time understanding that the locals see things completely different than we do.

About 90% of all Thai kids rides papas Wave when they are 12 years old and learn by doing, papa knows that sonny boy will ride it like he stole it but this is Thailand so never mind mentality.

[FforestFach]

• Is there any Advanced Motorbike Training School in Phuket? Somewhere else in Thailand?

[fxe1200]

if you can wheelie half a block in control, you are experienced.

At last, the response I was looking for. Front wheel stoppies as well!

Tried to do a stoppie with my Ducati Scrambler, it did not work. Probably just a lack of experience.

[guzzi850m2]

• Is there any Advanced Motorbike Training School in Phuket? Somewhere else in Thailand?

I don't think so. Honda have a school in the Bangkok area where you can learn riding a scooter.

Some of my friends says that riding on a track is the best way to learn to ride your bike right to the limit.

I would love to start riding on a track but I fell I am too old and will also rather not crash my less than one year old Versys.

Some buy a non registered bike just for track racing but most just use their street bike.

[Mr Moo]

Getting home on your bike and not in the back of an ambulance is a good indicator.

I am a life member of HOG (Harley Owners Group), have been on some 800 Km a day runs, attended advance rider courses and yet I still hit the road with eyes front, side and back reading the road conditions ahead and making allowances for idiots that may have been riding 20 years because don't have a clue or think they own the road and just don't respect other road users.

The day you consider yourself fully experienced is probably the day you get the ambulance home because the learning experience only ends when you do.

[AlQaholic]

I don't understand, why is this a topic? It's like asking if you have experience driving a car, how many years behind the wheel? transportation device. If a stupid driver spends 40 years behind the wheel he/she will still be stupid with some experience.

Edited December 8, 2015 by AlQaholic

[ljd1308]

I have been riding everyday since I was 17(now 35) with a daily commute of 100km 5 days a week and atleast 500km on weekend blasts and track days. So by those calculations I have ridden just under 1m km on various bikes. This is in Australia, Europe and Asia.

I would never consider myself an experienced rider and would never presume to know everything about riding. I would even say that I am still not capable of getting the most out of the larger bikes I have owned(GSXR750, CBR1000 etc).

But in saying that, I think I would be pretty comfortable riding any bike in any country.....except a Harley, tried it once and too heavy and awkward, I don't think I would ever be comfortable on one.

[jing jing]

Experience is a relative term, as suggested in the OP. I would say that more actual miles logged in a wide variety of conditions (street/dirt, hot/cold, wet/dry, day/night, city/highway, etc./etc.) gives a rider more experience, but still doesn't account for natural skills or lack thereof.

There's an old cliche that says there are 2 kinds of riders: those that have gone down, and those that WILL go down. I dislocated a shoulder in a trail riding crash when I was 12, broke a leg in a crash on wet roads at 15, and have suffered a variety of minor injuries in my 54 years and many, many miles of riding.

I truly love riding, maybe even more so in Thailand, where survival requires that one's senses and instincts be absolutely razor sharp at all times regardless of experience. On the other hand, I would never recommend that a novice rider - especially one with limited experience on Thai roads - risk his or her life learning the ropes in a place like Pattaya or Bangkok. That would be tempting fate.

My weapon of choice for Pattaya road running:

Edited December 8, 2015 by jing jing

[BBJ]

• Is there any Advanced Motorbike Training School in Phuket? Somewhere else in Thailand?

I don't think so. Honda have a school in the Bangkok area where you can learn riding a scooter.

Some of my friends says that riding on a track is the best way to learn to ride your bike right to the limit.

I would love to start riding on a track but I fell I am too old and will also rather not crash my less than one year old Versys.

Some buy a non registered bike just for track racing but most just use their street bike.

There is a chap at asianamoto who provides off road training. He is based in min buri, both a GS trophy racer and Baja1000. Personally I think it is good for the Tarmac too. While cornering on the road and off are different, some off road skill provides great balance technique on the road, especially in slow moving traffic. Having the confidence to stand on your pegs to get a better view over cars and advance notice of cars pulling out or joining the road as proved its worth to me.

[papa al]

jing,

What a beauty!

Edited December 8, 2015 by papa al

[expatbrit]

• Is there any Advanced Motorbike Training School in Phuket? Somewhere else in Thailand?

I don't think so. Honda have a school in the Bangkok area where you can learn riding a scooter.

Some of my friends says that riding on a track is the best way to learn to ride your bike right to the limit.

I would love to start riding on a track but I fell I am too old and will also rather not crash my less than one year old Versys.

Some buy a non registered bike just for track racing but most just use their street bike.

There is a chap at asianamoto who provides off road training. He is based in min buri, both a GS trophy racer and Baja1000. Personally I think it is good for the Tarmac too. While cornering on the road and off are different, some off road skill provides great balance technique on the road, especially in slow moving traffic. Having the confidence to stand on your pegs to get a better view over cars and advance notice of cars pulling out or joining the road as proved its worth to me.

Your "advice" is dangerous !

The "technique" of standing on pegs is not part of Advanced Motorcycle Roadcraft.

Learning how to read the road, position the bike and to identify potential hazards is part of what is taught during an advanced motorcycle riding course. .

[papa al]

There is a chap at asianamoto who provides off road training. He is based in min buri, both a GS trophy racer and Baja1000. Personally I think it is good for the Tarmac too. While cornering on the road and off are different, some off road skill provides great balance technique on the road, especially in slow moving traffic. Having the confidence to stand on your pegs to get a better view over cars and advance notice of cars pulling out or joining the road as proved its worth to me.

totally agree.

maybe papa take his course.

I ya hit slide out on sand or..., dirt bike skills can save the day.

Saved papa's bacon this summer.

Standing up also good for circulation in lower extremities and rump.

& fun.

Or just do what 'the book' says, sure.

[NoshowJones]

There are no rules for riding a motorcycle in Thailand, just pure genuine common sense. That's it.

[duanebigsby]

I think another form of experience is knowing your limits.

I grew up with inner ear problems and don't have 100% balance.

I'm in control of the bike and comfortable on it, but I know where the line is drawn.

I'd never attempt the wheelie, performance riding or racing, and definitely not standing on the pegs.

I keep both hands on the bars and ride with extra care.

Knowing my limits is why I'm relatively experience on a scooter and why I have no desire for a bigger bike.