Overstay blacklisting starts in March

[elgordo38]

This is long overdue.

No point to having a rgulation that is not properly enforced.

Boy you really got me scratching my head over this one.

[craigt3365]

I'd wait until it the royal decree is actually published.

I wonder about people who started their overstay before March 2016.

My friend was at immigration here in Pattaya yesterday. He had to sign a form indicating he understood these new rules. Seems they are instituting this already????

This signing of the forms has been effect (to my knowledge) already 1 year+

The last time I did an extension of stay at Jomtien Immigration (around 1.5 years ago) I also had to sign such a form

That's what I thought also. I just did my mother's extension 3 weeks ago or so. Didn't have to sign anything. TiT!!

[elviajero]

The only question that remains (for me that is) what happens if you have 1 day overstay, because for example your Border Run bus breaks down etc etc.

The rules mentioned before did not start the banning until 90 days was reached.

This article only mentions one year or more.

So 80 days of overstay and you're still good to go? No ban at all until 90 days?

The bans proposed by immigration had no ban for overstaying under 90 days IF you surrendered. But if arrested you could be banned even if the overstay was 1 day. Based on the OP the proposed rules have been amended so that only someone overstaying more than 1 year gets banned.

[Jim walker]

Quality visitors do not overstay any ware for 5 years and as for the insignificant 20000 baht fines should be raised to 1000000 baht that might be a deterrent to the reprobate over stayers and keep the small trivial fines 20000 for not wearing seatbelts or not wearing a certified crash helmet while riding a motorbike.

[ronaldo0]

My lawyer said they do this every so often to get people to panic and pay up by paying their overstay fines.

Last year I had to go and get my visa done 2 months before this was due to get enforced and had an overstay on it ( I couldn't afford it due to being disabled and having to pay for someone to fly with me etc ) I borrowed the money , went to the airport ,paid the fine and was back 3 days later !

2 months later nothing was enforced and is still the same as far as I know.

[nithisa78]

Could and will are very different events.

[elviajero]

Quality visitors do not overstay any ware for 5 years and as for the insignificant 20000 baht fines should be raised to 1000000 baht that might be a deterrent to the reprobate over stayers and keep the small trivial fines 20000 for not wearing seatbelts or not wearing a certified crash helmet while riding a motorbike.

The 20k fine is definitely too low and out of date. It was set over 30 years ago.

But IMO banning people is more of a deterrent. An increased fine without bans would probably just increase the number of overstayers.

[expatbrit]

The only question that remains (for me that is) what happens if you have 1 day overstay, because for example your Border Run bus breaks down etc etc.

The rules mentioned before did not start the banning until 90 days was reached.

This article only mentions one year or more.

So 80 days of overstay and you're still good to go? No ban at all until 90 days?

The bans proposed by immigration had no ban for overstaying under 90 days IF you surrendered. But if arrested you could be banned even if the overstay was 1 day. Based on the OP the proposed rules have been amended so that only someone overstaying more than 1 year gets banned.

If that proves to be true I doubt immigration will be pleased as such an amendment would add very few "teeth" to the present situation. The "clever" people will overstay by some 364 days, pay the fine, exit and immediately return.

My expectation is for the "new" overstay rules to much stricter.

[Sophon]

The only question that remains (for me that is) what happens if you have 1 day overstay, because for example your Border Run bus breaks down etc etc.

The rules mentioned before did not start the banning until 90 days was reached.

This article only mentions one year or more.

So 80 days of overstay and you're still good to go? No ban at all until 90 days?

The bans proposed by immigration had no ban for overstaying under 90 days IF you surrendered. But if arrested you could be banned even if the overstay was 1 day. Based on the OP the proposed rules have been amended so that only someone overstaying more than 1 year gets banned.

That is not correct. The wording of the announcement was not perfect, but the new rules were only for people overstaying more than 90 days whether they surrendered or was arrested. The confusion were caused by the section about being arrested only distinguishing between under/over one year, but the headline had already outlined that the regulation were for people overstaying more than 90 days. This was extensively discussed when the announcement came out a year and a half (I think) ago.

I think it's likely that we are still talking about the same regulation, and that the article in The Nation is just cherry-picking some of the more headline grabbing consequences of the changes. Quoting the new regulation in its entirety would probably be too convoluted for the average news reader without personal interest in foreigners on overstay. But time will tell.

Sophon

[Sutty]

And you think this will suddenly stop over staying and all those currently over staying are suddenly going to get a twinge of guilt and run to immigration to hand themselves in I think not. Those overstaying will be deeply embedded in there chosen location and will stay that way. Again there is no firm this will happen just yet another interpretation of a story.

[elviajero]

My lawyer said they do this every so often to get people to panic and pay up by paying their overstay fines.

Last year I had to go and get my visa done 2 months before this was due to get enforced and had an overstay on it ( I couldn't afford it due to being disabled and having to pay for someone to fly with me etc ) I borrowed the money , went to the airport ,paid the fine and was back 3 days later !

2 months later nothing was enforced and is still the same as far as I know.

You're right that it has been threatened before but this is the first report that I have seen that mentions a Royal Decree. It will have to be posted in the Royal Gazette before being enforced. So it looks odds on that blacklisting is coming.

At least they are giving people time to sort themselves out. IMO it will be 60 days after it gets posted in the Gazette before coming in to force so it looks like it will be May/June 2016 before bans get handed out.

[uptheos]

I doubt very much that anyone with over 5 years of overstay will turn themselves in.

Just stay under the radar and continue.

Even over stayers contribute to the economy.

Edited December 9, 2015 by uptheos

[Pib]

I'll believe it when I see it.

The article says a "law." Has the cabinet blessed it, has the puppet Parliament reviewed/voted on the law?

The problem I have with this article is it's a Nation news release and a police "major general" (dime a dozen in Thailand) is making the statement....making it sound like a done deal. Yea I know he's the immigration bureau chief.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Pib

[FritsSikkink]

And lets hope they record the names of those who overstay and check it against a database with all those who attempt to enter visa waiver or applying at a consulate outside the country. A simple computer program could do it!

they do

[elviajero]

So 80 days of overstay and you're still good to go? No ban at all until 90 days?

The bans proposed by immigration had no ban for overstaying under 90 days IF you surrendered. But if arrested you could be banned even if the overstay was 1 day. Based on the OP the proposed rules have been amended so that only someone overstaying more than 1 year gets banned.

That is not correct. The wording of the announcement was not perfect, but the new rules were only for people overstaying more than 90 days whether they surrendered or was arrested. The confusion were caused by the section about being arrested only distinguishing between under/over one year, but the headline had already outlined that the regulation were for people overstaying more than 90 days. This was extensively discussed when the announcement came out a year and a half (I think) ago.

I think it's likely that we are still talking about the same regulation, and that the article in The Nation is just cherry-picking some of the more headline grabbing consequences of the changes. Quoting the new regulation in its entirety would probably be too convoluted for the average news reader without personal interest in foreigners on overstay. But time will tell.

Sophon

It is correct. The immigration proposal was crystal clear. If apprehended overstays of less than 1 year get banned for 5 years. That would include 1 day.

The aliens who violate The Immigration Act, B.E.2522 by overstaying more than 90 days in the Kingdom of Thailand will be forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for a certain period of time as follow ;

Overstay more than 90 days forbidden 1 year

Overstay more than 1 year forbidden 3 years

Overstay more than 3 years forbidden 5 years

Overstay more than 5 years forbidden 10 years

In the case that alien is being apprehended

Overstay less than 1 year forbidden 5 years

Overstay more than 1 years forbidden 10 years

The Nation article only talks about bans only for those overstaying more than 1 year.

[FritsSikkink]

I doubt very much that anyone with over 5 years of overstay will turn themselves in.

Just stay under the radar and continue.

Even over stayers contribute to the economy.

a beggar does too

[FritsSikkink]

I would imagine there are many 1,000s of overstayers who pay into the economy which will have an adverse effect on the Thai economy if it is put into force it seems one step forward and ten steps backwards

if you can afford a visa, you contribute hardly anything

[Sutty]

Quality visitors do not overstay any ware for 5 years and as for the insignificant 20000 baht fines should be raised to 1000000 baht that might be a deterrent to the reprobate over stayers and keep the small trivial fines 20000 for not wearing seatbelts or not wearing a certified crash helmet while riding a motorbike.[/quote

And a merry bah humbug to you sir have any over stayers directly affected you sir!!!

[MJCM]

I'll believe it when I see it.

The article says a "law." Has the cabinet blessed it, has the puppet Parliament reviewed/voted on the law?

The problem I have with this article is it's a Nation news release and a police "major general" (dime a dozen in Thailand) is making the statement....making it sound like a done deal. Yea I know he's the immigration bureau chief.

Pib, with all respect the most important sentence in the OP has to be this.

The royal decree on the blacklisting is expected to be promulgated in late March,

[FritsSikkink]

I would imagine there are many 1,000s of overstayers who pay into the economy which will have an adverse effect on the Thai economy if it is put into force it seems one step forward and ten steps backwards

Sounds about right.

rofl

[FritsSikkink]

Aint gonna happen they need to change thai immigration laws (to make over stay a CRIMINAL offence) and what they propose is against the United Nations signatory that Thailand signed up to be a member of

Still the next 70 pages will be interesting as usual

they are changing the laws and it has nohing to do with the UN

[FritsSikkink]

My lawyer said they do this every so often to get people to panic and pay up by paying their overstay fines.

Last year I had to go and get my visa done 2 months before this was due to get enforced and had an overstay on it ( I couldn't afford it due to being disabled and having to pay for someone to fly with me etc ) I borrowed the money , went to the airport ,paid the fine and was back 3 days later !

2 months later nothing was enforced and is still the same as far as I know.

your lawyer, can't afford a visa but pays a lawyer. rofl

[Sophon]

The bans proposed by immigration had no ban for overstaying under 90 days IF you surrendered. But if arrested you could be banned even if the overstay was 1 day. Based on the OP the proposed rules have been amended so that only someone overstaying more than 1 year gets banned.

That is not correct. The wording of the announcement was not perfect, but the new rules were only for people overstaying more than 90 days whether they surrendered or was arrested. The confusion were caused by the section about being arrested only distinguishing between under/over one year, but the headline had already outlined that the regulation were for people overstaying more than 90 days. This was extensively discussed when the announcement came out a year and a half (I think) ago.

I think it's likely that we are still talking about the same regulation, and that the article in The Nation is just cherry-picking some of the more headline grabbing consequences of the changes. Quoting the new regulation in its entirety would probably be too convoluted for the average news reader without personal interest in foreigners on overstay. But time will tell.

Sophon

It is correct. The immigration proposal was crystal clear. If apprehended overstays of less than 1 year get banned for 5 years. That would include 1 day.

The aliens who violate The Immigration Act, B.E.2522 by overstaying more than 90 days in the Kingdom of Thailand will be forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for a certain period of time as follow ;

Overstay more than 90 days forbidden 1 year

Overstay more than 1 year forbidden 3 years

Overstay more than 3 years forbidden 5 years

Overstay more than 5 years forbidden 10 years

In the case that alien is being apprehended

Overstay less than 1 year forbidden 5 years

Overstay more than 1 years forbidden 10 years

The Nation article only talks about bans only for those overstaying more than 1 year.

Again, you are not correct. The regulation clearly starts out by outlining that the regulation is about aliens overstaying more than 90 days. If such a person is apprehended the penalties are more severe with anyone overstaying less than 1 year (but still more than 90 days) being banned for 5 years where they would only have been banned one year if they turned themselves in. But I don't want to start up that discussion again, if anyone is interested they can read the old (very long) thread and make their own mind up.

Yes, the (very short) Nation article only talks about penalties for overstays of more than one year, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have removed the penalties for overstaying less than one year. But as I said, time will tell.,

Sophon

[Shadychris]

I would imagine there are many 1,000s of overstayers who pay into the economy which will have an adverse effect on the Thai economy if it is put into force it seems one step forward and ten steps backwards

Sigh.... The hackneyed response of 'we pay into the economy' again..... For starters the number of over-stayers, maybe around 100,000 - 200,000, is hardly a significant proportion of the countries 67,000,000 population.

Fair to assume that the main reason most of these people are on overstay is because they do not have the financial means to regularise their situation anyway. As such they will unlikely be significant contributors to the economy - though I suspect maybe the bargirls turnover may take a hit..

I somehow doubt that losing them will result in the Thai economy taking ten steps backwards!

At the end of the day the Visa regulations are there for a reason, and they are law - the fact that a small minority are spending a few thousand baht a month on Chang and massages is hardly a reason not to have regulation, or not to enforce it.

[Pib]

I'll believe it when I see it.

The article says a "law." Has the cabinet blessed it, has the puppet Parliament reviewed/voted on the law?

The problem I have with this article is it's a Nation news release and a police "major general" (dime a dozen in Thailand) is making the statement....making it sound like a done deal. Yea I know he's the immigration bureau chief.

Pib, with all respect the most important sentence in the OP has to be this.

The royal decree on the blacklisting is expected to be promulgated in late March,

That always the last step/rubber stamp for a new law that has passed the cabinet and Parliament.

Has the cabinet blessed and the Parliment passed the law as described by the good major general? Or is it just under review by the cabinet/Parliament and the good major general is assuming it will pass into law?

[gerry123]

I'd wait until it the royal decree is actually published.

I wonder about people who started their overstay before March 2016.

My friend was at immigration here in Pattaya yesterday. He had to sign a form indicating he understood these new rules. Seems they are instituting this already????

I think it was the same form they have been getting people to sign since May of last year.

I have had to sign it for 2 extension now.

Is this notification in English or Thai?

I think it's all in Thai.

Very few farangs can probably understand what they are signing.

English

[Liquorice]

I would imagine most long term overstayers do so because they have no money and can't afford to pay the 20k overstay fine, and get another visa. If they all left tomorrow I doubt it would make a jot of difference to the economy. Anyone overstaying through choice deserves to get thrown out and banned.

Moreover they can't afford flights home either.

If they are serious about getting rid of the over stayers then they should have a one month amnesty before the new rules apply.

Without the worry or fear of paying a fine or being locked up, they have an opportunity to contact family for help to get back home.

There again there will be some who have nothing, or no one to go back to!

[chrisinth]

I would imagine there are many 1,000s of overstayers who pay into the economy which will have an adverse effect on the Thai economy if it is put into force it seems one step forward and ten steps backwards

I would suggest that it would have very little effect on the Thai economy at all.

The majority of those on overstay are not putting that much into the economic structure, no matter how much they think they are. And before the argument of no available visas for those under 50 who don't want to get married, or are gay, there is still the option of leaving the country and getting a valid tourist visa (like 100,000's of others) or going down the Elite road.

The ones I do feel sorry for are the ones who don't have these options for one reason or another.

The post is not intended to be a windup, but the people here on overstay will not make a difference to the economy.

IMHO.

[elviajero]

It is correct. The immigration proposal was crystal clear. If apprehended overstays of less than 1 year get banned for 5 years. That would include 1 day.

The aliens who violate The Immigration Act, B.E.2522 by overstaying more than 90 days in the Kingdom of Thailand will be forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for a certain period of time as follow ;

Overstay more than 90 days forbidden 1 year

Overstay more than 1 year forbidden 3 years

Overstay more than 3 years forbidden 5 years

Overstay more than 5 years forbidden 10 years

In the case that alien is being apprehended

Overstay less than 1 year forbidden 5 years

Overstay more than 1 years forbidden 10 years

The Nation article only talks about bans only for those overstaying more than 1 year.

Again, you are not correct. The regulation clearly starts out by outlining that the regulation is about aliens overstaying more than 90 days. If such a person is apprehended the penalties are more severe with anyone overstaying less than 1 year (but still more than 90 days) being banned for 5 years where they would only have been banned one year if they turned themselves in. But I don't want to start up that discussion again, if anyone is interested they can read the old (very long) thread and make their own mind up.

Yes, the (very short) Nation article only talks about penalties for overstays of more than one year, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have removed the penalties for overstaying less than one year. But as I said, time will tell.,

Sophon

Ok. Thank you. I see your point! And agree that I am probably wrong. I was focused of the bans alone!

[MobileContent]

I've read the OP, is there any mention of increased fines, over and above what is charged now?

No. They would have to change the immigration act to charge more than 20k.

Its in the process. We heard it in the office just yesterday that the fine will be 500 Baht per day with no limit.

More changes on the way for Edu and Business visas. Multiply Entries of any kind will have to be applied by next year in the home country but some countries will not be affected of which the Thai government have negotiated some special visa commitments with foreign governments. The METV visa was just for a starter,

Edited December 9, 2015 by MobileContent