Father Leaving with Kids

[Sawan Chan 7]

Is there any problem with a father leaving Thailand with kids without the wife?

[craigt3365]

Yes. Let's move this over to the Family and Children forum.

Topic Moved.

[FritsSikkink]

you need a letter from the wife that she is ok with them leaving the country, birth papers.

are you the legal father?

Edited December 18, 2015 by FritsSikkink

[Johnniey]

I did it quite a few years ago on a few occasions and never needed any letter from my wife.

[offset]

Is your surname the same as on your child's passport if it is you might be OK I went to Hong Kong with my son last week and was not asked for anything for him but I had it all all the papers i would need just in case I needed it

[Deserted]

Ditto, to some degree airline policy has an effect, some are stricter than others.

[aniMAL]

I was stopped by Immigration in BKK a few days ago, while taking my son back to the UK for Christmas (just the 2 of us travelling).

I was taken to a separate desk and asked if I had any paperwork to say that we had my wife's consent to travel. I didn't! The officer then called my wife to check all was ok, before stamping us out.

[LukKrueng]

Ditto, to some degree airline policy has an effect, some are stricter than others.

Nothing to do with the airlines.

As in any country, you would not have any problems unless your wife has asked for a travel restrictions for the children (by court order, which will pop up on the immigration computer when they scan the children's passports).

[MaeJoMTB]

I was stopped by Immigration in BKK a few days ago, while taking my son back to the UK for Christmas (just the 2 of us travelling).

I was taken to a separate desk and asked if I had any paperwork to say that we had my wife's consent to travel. I didn't! The officer then called my wife to check all was ok, before stamping us out.

How did he know he was talking you your wife?

It could have been a female conspirator on the end of the phone!

[MaeJoMTB]

why on earth would any retired man want to start a family at retirement age only to find himself abandoned by the Thai wife to return to his home land to raise the kids alone.

Off topic but .........

In the UK, single parent family gets income topped up to 15kgbp/year (tax free).

And jumps to 1st place in the free housing queue.

Not to mention assorted little bonus like,

Free NHS, free dental, free glasses, free council tax, free NI contributions.

It's a great little earner.

[derator01]

Please stick to the topic and show respect to other members.

[Autonuaq]

Beside that you need tho have the persmissio n to travel abroud for the peopel who held custody by law (mostly the father and hte mother of the child)

To prevent the trick most man did fall in is to have the written permission signed by your wife.

You need a wititen permission to take the childern abroad with the period metnioned that it is allowed to have them abroad.

This has to be singed and also with a copy of her passport.

you need to addree tte premission with "To whom It concerns'

Type and date the persmission of thaking the childern abroad to country for the period from ... till... of which both dates included.

if possible the flight number meantioned of the depature flight in hte document

Full name of the childern as well there ID numbers and passport numbers

the signature done by the follwing:

written by hand in her handwriting

I hereby do fully agree with that Mr ........ takes the above mantioned childeren abroad for the period meantioned

then in her hand writing place and date with her signature

provide cpoy for her future reference.

Bewise and arrange this. Withou this the changes are there that you are not able to leave with the childern or that you can be acused by internantional child obduction. and you have no proof everything was with persmission.

BEside is is simply followng the law of what you need to and arange.

Regards and the best whishes from a Father who won two cases regading child obuction by his ex-wife and haer family.

One case national child obduction and the other one was internation obduction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_child_abduction

The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction (Dutch: Haags Kinderontvoeringsverdrag) or HagueAbduction Convention is a multilateral treaty developed by the Hague Conference on Private International Law (HCCH) that provides an expeditious method to return a child internationally abducted

this will prevent the trick some do to report child obduction.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Autonuaq

[Autonuaq]

Is your surname the same as on your child's passport if it is you might be OK I went to Hong Kong with my son last week and was not asked for anything for him but I had it all all the papers i would need just in case I needed it

Has totally nothing to do with name in passpport has to do with custody and talking a child away form control of the people who have costody

thake away of the control is child obdcution (national or intennational)

You need to have the persmission (written) to take the child abraod from the people who have the custody.

in genereal that are the father and the mother who are registered in the custordy register.

thios means that the father neers persmission form the mother and well visa versa if they do things .

so take abroad you need to have wirtten permission.

wirtten is easier to proof.

some more infomratioan avbotu this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_child_abduction

The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction (Dutch: Haags Kinderontvoeringsverdrag) or HagueAbduction Convention is a multilateral treaty developed by the Hague Conference on Private International Law (HCCH) that provides an expeditious method to return a child internationally abducted

[Deserted]

Ditto, to some degree airline policy has an effect, some are stricter than others.

Nothing to do with the airlines.

As in any country, you would not have any problems unless your wife has asked for a travel restrictions for the children (by court order, which will pop up on the immigration computer when they scan the children's passports).

Read the thread before you comment.

Many people, myself included were not asked to show anything. Flew to London with Thai Airways, no questions asked though had all documentation required, flew there with Singapore Airlines too, all documents required and they wanted to speak to the mother.

Not all airlines adhere to policy, some officials don't even know what they are. Any experienced flyer can tell you that.

[goatfarmer]

I was stopped by Immigration in BKK a few days ago, while taking my son back to the UK for Christmas (just the 2 of us travelling).

I was taken to a separate desk and asked if I had any paperwork to say that we had my wife's consent to travel. I didn't! The officer then called my wife to check all was ok, before stamping us out.

[goatfarmer]

I was stopped by Immigration in BKK a few days ago, while taking my son back to the UK for Christmas (just the 2 of us travelling).

I was taken to a separate desk and asked if I had any paperwork to say that we had my wife's consent to travel. I didn't! The officer then called my wife to check all was ok, before stamping us out.

Sounds like a random check. I've taken my son out of Thailand twice with no questions asked. Best to have the letter just in case.

[chilli42]

I have no idea what the immigration policy is but I have travelled out with my kids (without my wife) at different ages with no question ever. They do have my family name in their Thai passports so this may be the reason for no questions. Where I did get questions as at US immigration who had many questions and were indicting on a letter from my wife.

[Sawan Chan 7]

why on earth would any retired man want to start a family at retirement age only to find himself abandoned by the Thai wife to return to his home land to raise the kids alone.

Off topic but .........

In the UK, single parent family gets income topped up to 15kgbp/year (tax free).

And jumps to 1st place in the free housing queue.

Not to mention assorted little bonus like,

Free NHS, free dental, free glasses, free council tax, free NI contributions.

It's a great little earner.

That's very interesting maybe I'll stay!

[nontabury]

I think it depends on the individual immigration officer. I have been through the controls alone with my two children, no questions asked. Yet when I departed BKk in August, I was in one queue with one child, my wife in another queue with the other child.

The officer at my queue stopped me and asked for proof that I could take the child out of Thailand alone. We just referred her to my wife who had already passed through immigration, so everything OK.

What would be interesting, is to know of any instances were a Thai mother has been prevented from taking a farang named child out of the country without the consent of the farang father. Are the rules different?

[Deserted]

I think it depends on the individual immigration officer. I have been through the controls alone with my two children, no questions asked. Yet when I departed BKk in August, I was in one queue with one child, my wife in another queue with the other child.

The officer at my queue stopped me and asked for proof that I could take the child out of Thailand alone. We just referred her to my wife who had already passed through immigration, so everything OK.

What would be interesting, is to know of any instances were a Thai mother has been prevented from taking a farang named child out of the country without the consent of the farang father. Are the rules different?

Yep, and that could depend on what side of bed they got out that morning. I just smile and don't engage eye contact. Flew to Phuket with Nok Air once, they were the worst even though we weren't leaving the country but that was caused by not having enough staff, hence they were overworked and stressed.

[SteveB2]

Interesting. Lots of different suggestions. What happened to me was different again.

One thing everyone should be aware of is that child kidnapping has become a very hot topic in Thailand during the last 12 months driving the Thai Authorities to tighten up their immigration inspections to prevent this heinous crime.

The above being said, this is what I was instructed to prepares by government officials so as to ensure a smooth pass through immigration at SVM. Airport

Plan: For the Father (me) to take a dual citizen (UK/Thai) 10 year old child to the UK for a 1 month holiday, and for my mother(UK citizen) to bring her back to Thailand.

Reguirement(Thailand end)

1. The Whole family goes to the ampheur office for the wife to dictate a letter to the 'Nai Ampheur' on official 'Garuda' government paper in Thai language giving permission for the trip.

2. Wife and daughter have to go to the Foreign Ministry in Bangkok (FMB) with the Thai permission letter.

3. The Thai letter has to be officially translated at the FMB into English

4. Both the Thai and English versions of the permission letter have to 'officiated by the FMB.

5. During the registration of the permission to travel letter, The FMB enter the childs name, together with starting permission to leave date and ending permission date onto the immigration computer for checking at the airport when you pass through.

At SVM - all went smoothly - we were taken to one side to check the FMB letter and the kiddies name on the computer - all was in order. through in a couple of minutes.

At London Heathrow LHR .... err I assumed that with us both being UK citizens and passport holders that entry would be easy. NOT SO.

Immigration wanted to know where the mother was and why she wasn't travelling with us together. We were both taken out the Que and interrogated. Shit got very real very quickly.

It was looking very much like we were not going to be let us into the UK and would have to return to Thailand.

Then, I showed them the FMB letter and its official English translation - then suddenly all the peaked hats smiled and wished us good luck and we were on our way.

The only conclusion I can come to is this :-

• There is a proper procedure to go through together with official forms to obtain that need to be officiated at the highest level if you do not want to risk falling into a sticky situation explaining yourself to suspicious customs officers trying to establish if you really have permission to take the child overseas.

Background info on how serious child parental kidnapping is considered to be as a world wide crime... there are plenty of John and Jane Doe's convicted of parental kidnapping (Their only crime) on the FBI's Most Wanted List.

Edited December 26, 2015 by SteveB2

[SteveB2]

<duplicate posting>

Edited December 26, 2015 by SteveB2

[stoneyboy]

Interesting. Lots of different suggestions. What happened to me was different again.

One thing everyone should be aware of is that child kidnapping has become a very hot topic in Thailand during the last 12 months driving the Thai Authorities to tighten up their immigration inspections to prevent this heinous crime.

The above being said, this is what I was instructed to prepares by government officials so as to ensure a smooth pass through immigration at SVM. Airport

Plan: For the Father (me) to take a dual citizen (UK/Thai) 10 year old child to the UK for a 1 month holiday, and for my mother(UK citizen) to bring her back to Thailand.

Reguirement(Thailand end)

1. The Whole family goes to the ampheur office for the wife to dictate a letter to the 'Nai Ampheur' on official 'Garuda' goverment paper in Thai language giving permission for the trip.

2. Wife and daughter have to go to the Foreign Ministry in Bangkok (FMB) with the Thai permission letter.

3. The Thai letter has to be officially translated at the FMB into English

4. Both the Thai and English versions of the permission letter have to 'officiated by the FMB.

5. During the registration of the permission to travel letter, The FMB enter the childs name, together with starting permission to leave date and ending permission date onto the immigration computer for checking at the airport when you pass through.

Meanwhile underage Issan girls continue to be exploited and found working in Pattaya and other tourist hotspots.

As always they are hot to penalise and interrogate foreigners who in essence are doing nothing more than going about their business,all the time while turning a blind eye to the abuse of their own.

Same old double standards.

Edited December 26, 2015 by stoneyboy

[Sawan Chan 7]

Interesting. Lots of different suggestions. What happened to me was different again.

One thing everyone should be aware of is that child kidnapping has become a very hot topic in Thailand during the last 12 months driving the Thai Authorities to tighten up their immigration inspections to prevent this heinous crime.

The above being said, this is what I was instructed to prepares by government officials so as to ensure a smooth pass through immigration at SVM. Airport

Plan: For the Father (me) to take a dual citizen (UK/Thai) 10 year old child to the UK for a 1 month holiday, and for my mother(UK citizen) to bring her back to Thailand.

Reguirement(Thailand end)

1. The Whole family goes to the ampheur office for the wife to dictate a letter to the 'Nai Ampheur' on official 'Garuda' goverment paper in Thai language giving permission for the trip.

2. Wife and daughter have to go to the Foreign Ministry in Bangkok (FMB) with the Thai permission letter.

3. The Thai letter has to be officially translated at the FMB into English

4. Both the Thai and English versions of the permission letter have to 'officiated by the FMB.

5. During the registration of the permission to travel letter, The FMB enter the childs name, together with starting permission to leave date and ending permission date onto the immigration computer for checking at the airport when you pass through.

Have you been on the trip yet? If so did they ask for all that?

Does age of the child matter? My daughter is 13.

This seems way over the top and I am not going to prepare all the above. Possible a trip to the local Amphur but certainly not a trip to Bangkok.

Also, the travel agent said nothing about it.

[SteveB2]

Interesting. Lots of different suggestions. What happened to me was different again.

One thing everyone should be aware of is that child kidnapping has become a very hot topic in Thailand during the last 12 months driving the Thai Authorities to tighten up their immigration inspections to prevent this heinous crime.

The above being said, this is what I was instructed to prepares by government officials so as to ensure a smooth pass through immigration at SVM. Airport

Plan: For the Father (me) to take a dual citizen (UK/Thai) 10 year old child to the UK for a 1 month holiday, and for my mother(UK citizen) to bring her back to Thailand.

Reguirement(Thailand end)

1. The Whole family goes to the ampheur office for the wife to dictate a letter to the 'Nai Ampheur' on official 'Garuda' goverment paper in Thai language giving permission for the trip.

2. Wife and daughter have to go to the Foreign Ministry in Bangkok (FMB) with the Thai permission letter.

3. The Thai letter has to be officially translated at the FMB into English

4. Both the Thai and English versions of the permission letter have to 'officiated by the FMB.

5. During the registration of the permission to travel letter, The FMB enter the child's name, together with starting permission to leave date and ending permission date onto the immigration computer for checking at the airport when you pass through.

Have you been on the trip yet? If so did they ask for all that?

Does age of the child matter? My daughter is 13.

This seems way over the top and I am not going to prepare all the above. Possible a trip to the local Amphur but certainly not a trip to Bangkok.

Also, the travel agent said nothing about it.

>

My comments:-

Yes, I have been on the trip with the above paperwork.

The paperwork was handed in to SVM immigration - we went straight through at a side desk with a high ranking official who knew the system checking the documents and a computer screen.

There was no problems. The FMB officiated Thai & English permission letters worked both ends without having to confirm the details with the mother at the airport. (see edited original post above).

This is the official method recognised by Thai Immigration, officiated by the Thai Foreign Ministry, and the details entered into the Immigration computer giving permission in advance for the trip, confirmed on a Garuda headed document.

Not showing the document resulted in an immediate interrogation at Heathrow airport. Showing the documents caused the interrogation to stop and the peaked hats to smile.

Travel agents are in the business to sell tickets - spooking you with this paperwork requirements for the trip might delay a sale - even if the knew the rules (which they likely don't) it would be unlikely they would let you know in case it changed your mind about buying the tickets.

and finally...

Here in Thailand, government officials have considerable power to do whatever they want - though they should abide by the official system if there is one(explained above)

However, not every government immigration official keeps up with the new rules and could just wave you through if they are convinced everything is OK (such as by telephoning your wife to check all is OK)

But consider -

how does the immigration official know that the women on the end of the phone is the child's custodian

what if your wife's phone isn't working. or the mobile phone system is down etc etc.

what if you have a big arguement with the missus prior to starting your trip - (this particularly, would not be a good idea)

The official system has everything pre-arranged for your trip and entered on the immigration computer

I don't understand why anyone would want to take the risk with a hundred thousand bahts worth of air tickets when there is a system in place to prevent any misunderstanding.

[LukKrueng]

Ditto, to some degree airline policy has an effect, some are stricter than others.

Nothing to do with the airlines.

As in any country, you would not have any problems unless your wife has asked for a travel restrictions for the children (by court order, which will pop up on the immigration computer when they scan the children's passports).

Read the thread before you comment.

Many people, myself included were not asked to show anything. Flew to London with Thai Airways, no questions asked though had all documentation required, flew there with Singapore Airlines too, all documents required and they wanted to speak to the mother.

Not all airlines adhere to policy, some officials don't even know what they are. Any experienced flyer can tell you that.

You mean the AIRLINE wanted to talk to the mother??? I worked for and with airlines many years - no such policy. Airlines check for visa or permit to enter the destination point. That is their only concern. I flew with my kids alone, my wife flew with the kids alone, never ever any of us were asked about permission from the other parent. According to a post above, you need a specific format of letter to prove you didn't abduct the child. So basically you need the same when you take the child to a movie or an ice cream.

Does any parent anywhere in the world needs to have such a letter when traveling with a child? How about a couple traveling together - do they need to carry the child's birth certificate to prove parenthood? Or to show a court order that they are the legal guardians of the children? Is it only required in Thailand? Is it only for foreigners traveling with their Thai children or also to Thai fathers traveling with children?

There are thousands of passengers going through immigration daily. They might ask some of those single parents if they suspect something, but not on a regular basis. If there is a dispute between the parents and 1 side thinks the other might take the children out of the country without permission, they would get a court order to restrict the child's travel - and that will pop up on the immigration computer.

Long ago I worked for a tour operator that organized overseas group tours for youngsters (students and teens). Part of my duty was to see them out at the airport. I remember one case that a young girl was not allowed out of the country as her parents were divorced and one of them has requested a travel restriction without telling the child or the other parent. It was an unpleasant surprise for the child, but she had to get her parents to sort it out and remove the court order before she could join the group

[hgma]

Not really direct related but still.......

When i take my children out of Thailand to Laos,to visit mother and family, i don't have to show anything on the Thai side, but get a surprise at the Lao side.

Father AND children entry fee 35 dollars....(non Lao passport holders!) only when the Lao mother is present they can get a gratis (free) entry.

Now my wife will takke the kids to Laos this monday..........free of questions and fees.

Parenthood Lao style.

[catman20]

why on earth would any retired man want to start a family at retirement age only to find himself abandoned by the Thai wife to return to his home land to raise the kids alone.

Off topic but .........

In the UK, single parent family gets income topped up to 15kgbp/year (tax free).

And jumps to 1st place in the free housing queue.

Not to mention assorted little bonus like,

Free NHS, free dental, free glasses, free council tax, free NI contributions.

It's a great little earner.

all courtesy of the tax payer for someone's foolish mistakes ???????????

[bangon04]

"Is there any problem with a father leaving Thailand with kids without the wife?"

You mean for a holiday or permanently?

[Sawan Chan 7]

"Is there any problem with a father leaving Thailand with kids without the wife?"

You mean for a holiday or permanently?

For a 2 month holiday