Pattaya is dead

[thaibeachlovers]

I have always laughed at this notion that families visiting Pattaya is something new.

Yep, it does appear that many people seem to think this is a new concept, not just the reported increase in families visiting.

Between 1988 & 1999 I knew Pattaya intimimately, before Jomtien was even developed. Pattaya, during that time period was always aimed at family holidays. But this seemed never to have been recognised by those who frequented the areas that weren't 'family friendly'. Seems nothing much has changed over the years.

Oh, and during that particular period, there were very few restrictions endorced, very few rules and boundries yet the families kept coming back year after year. The only thing lacking was the violence.

Sure, different times I grant you, but Pattaya didn't build the shopping malls, restaurants and all the 'western conveniences for the sex-pats or the retirees only......

From the 70's, it has always been a family holiday destination.

I was there a lot early to late 90s, and I fail to remember it being aimed at family holidays. Also, Jomptien was well developed from at least 1990. Those big condo buildings didn't just spring up overnight.

Certainly, there were a lot of resorts that catered to families on Beach Rd from Central Rd to North Rd, and on the south end of Naklua Rd, but they were of the sort where you didn't leave the resort except on an AC bus tour. I recall no families in the south Pattaya area or Walking Street.

It wasn't till the Russian invasion that young children were seen on WS at night.

Pattaya has always been a big boys playground, till recently.

Anyone claiming that Pattaya is becoming a family town had better take themselves on a walking tour of Soi Buakhao and see how many "families" they can count, LOL.

In 1997, take notice that is almost the end of the ninety's, there were 2 condominiums on Jomtien beach road with the latter one still under construction.

The one under construction half way beachroad is called jomtien beach condiminium, I think, and consists of 3 low rise buildings

Sale prices were about 10K a square meter.

Furthermore there were some newly constructed shophouses near the beach road Soi 5, but they were all unoccupied.

In the daytime there was little movement at Jomtien beach, but after 5pm it was completely deserted.

Everyone who had lived in Pattaya for some time couldn't imagine that the shophouses would ever get sold.

Are you sure Jomptien wasn't developed before that? The Royal Jomptien Resort hotel fire was on 12 July 1997. It had to have been around a few years before that, but you don't mention that a 17 story building was in existence in 1997, and they don't build luxury hotels at an undeveloped beach anyway.

It was renamed Jomptien Palm Beach after the fire.

[TheCruncher]

Yep, it does appear that many people seem to think this is a new concept, not just the reported increase in families visiting.

Between 1988 & 1999 I knew Pattaya intimimately, before Jomtien was even developed. Pattaya, during that time period was always aimed at family holidays. But this seemed never to have been recognised by those who frequented the areas that weren't 'family friendly'. Seems nothing much has changed over the years.

Oh, and during that particular period, there were very few restrictions endorced, very few rules and boundries yet the families kept coming back year after year. The only thing lacking was the violence.

Sure, different times I grant you, but Pattaya didn't build the shopping malls, restaurants and all the 'western conveniences for the sex-pats or the retirees only......

From the 70's, it has always been a family holiday destination.

I was there a lot early to late 90s, and I fail to remember it being aimed at family holidays. Also, Jomptien was well developed from at least 1990. Those big condo buildings didn't just spring up overnight.

Certainly, there were a lot of resorts that catered to families on Beach Rd from Central Rd to North Rd, and on the south end of Naklua Rd, but they were of the sort where you didn't leave the resort except on an AC bus tour. I recall no families in the south Pattaya area or Walking Street.

It wasn't till the Russian invasion that young children were seen on WS at night.

Pattaya has always been a big boys playground, till recently.

Anyone claiming that Pattaya is becoming a family town had better take themselves on a walking tour of Soi Buakhao and see how many "families" they can count, LOL.

In 1997, take notice that is almost the end of the ninety's, there were 2 condominiums on Jomtien beach road with the latter one still under construction.

The one under construction half way beachroad is called jomtien beach condiminium, I think, and consists of 3 low rise buildings

Sale prices were about 10K a square meter.

Furthermore there were some newly constructed shophouses near the beach road Soi 5, but they were all unoccupied.

In the daytime there was little movement at Jomtien beach, but after 5pm it was completely deserted.

Everyone who had lived in Pattaya for some time couldn't imagine that the shophouses would ever get sold.

Are you sure Jomptien wasn't developed before that? The Royal Jomptien Resort hotel fire was on 12 July 1997. It had to have been around a few years before that, but you don't mention that a 17 story building was in existence in 1997, and they don't build luxury hotels at an undeveloped beach anyway.

It was renamed Jomptien Palm Beach after the fire.

The Royal jomtien hotel is/was at the very entrance of beach road, which is several kilometers long.

One swallow does not make spring.

[chrisinth]

I think some of you are totally missing the point when you talk about Pattaya being, or not being a resort area suitable for families. Specifically, the poster suggesting we take a walking tour of Soi Buakhao--presumably to show that Pattaya is not suitable. Using the argument of, I suppose, a street being aimed at adults to place the whole city off limits to families is really weak. There are plenty of other places in the Pattaya area for tourist families to spend their time without having to go to Walking Street, Soi 6, etc. Most cities have adult areas--it doesn't mean families have to avoid going to a city.

You misunderstand my post re Soi Buakhao. I was responding to the posters saying that Pattaya was now a family town, when obviously places like Buakhao are not. I also said families stay at the big resorts and have been doing so since at least the early 90s.

Other off limit areas for families would be Boy's Town and the sois next to it, Soi Post Office and the one next to it ( forgotten the name- getting old ), Soi 6 and Walking Street plus the area behind it, also Soi 7 and 8, the bar complex at the north end on both sides of 2nd Rd and the bar area on the Naklua Rd.

The soi beside post office was called Yomoto and the area near boy's town was known as Soi Pattayaland, soi's 1 & 2 with boy's town actually soi 3.

Not sure what they are called now, but agree, nothing there for families,..............................

[joepattaya1961]

well after 6pm most people go out and they don't go the beach, every bar from second road back to 3rd road is busy, Ne plaza is busy

Soi Buakhao is busy, Lk metro is busy

its HIGH season and as busy as it has been in the past 12 years

most hotels are booked up

Awesome, so lets try this trick with another poster, can you please give me the names of those hotels which are booked up?,

No Koniying....it's not gonna work....lol.

But about fully booked hotels: I've a story about hotels lighting fireworks in the evening if they are fully booked.

Over the last few weeks, there was fireworks almost every night.

[thaibeachlovers]

I was there a lot early to late 90s, and I fail to remember it being aimed at family holidays. Also, Jomptien was well developed from at least 1990. Those big condo buildings didn't just spring up overnight.

Certainly, there were a lot of resorts that catered to families on Beach Rd from Central Rd to North Rd, and on the south end of Naklua Rd, but they were of the sort where you didn't leave the resort except on an AC bus tour. I recall no families in the south Pattaya area or Walking Street.

It wasn't till the Russian invasion that young children were seen on WS at night.

Pattaya has always been a big boys playground, till recently.

Anyone claiming that Pattaya is becoming a family town had better take themselves on a walking tour of Soi Buakhao and see how many "families" they can count, LOL.

In 1997, take notice that is almost the end of the ninety's, there were 2 condominiums on Jomtien beach road with the latter one still under construction.

The one under construction half way beachroad is called jomtien beach condiminium, I think, and consists of 3 low rise buildings

Sale prices were about 10K a square meter.

Furthermore there were some newly constructed shophouses near the beach road Soi 5, but they were all unoccupied.

In the daytime there was little movement at Jomtien beach, but after 5pm it was completely deserted.

Everyone who had lived in Pattaya for some time couldn't imagine that the shophouses would ever get sold.

Are you sure Jomptien wasn't developed before that? The Royal Jomptien Resort hotel fire was on 12 July 1997. It had to have been around a few years before that, but you don't mention that a 17 story building was in existence in 1997, and they don't build luxury hotels at an undeveloped beach anyway.

It was renamed Jomptien Palm Beach after the fire.

The Royal jomtien hotel is/was at the very entrance of beach road, which is several kilometers long.

One swallow does not make spring.

I know exactly how long it is because I walked it all back in early 90s.

I repeat, they don't build luxury resorts on undeveloped beaches, even if the development only extends a mile.

[dennis123]

Sunday night I went to the McDonalds drive-in again at Sukhumvit, can't be high season more as it was the 27th of December. I was very surprised that there wasn't any traffic jam that way, as I came from Thepprasit road, around 21:00 and glimpsed at the market it also surprised me that there weren't that many people. Definitely no more than in low season, maybe I went earlier before, that could be the reason.

After that I drove back, same route, down to Jomtien and took the road towards the beach, a little more activity but also not crazy busy, but now it was almost ten o'clock and some bars were plain empty.

Long story short, the high season doesn't annoy me that much anymore for what I've seen in the last few weeks, maybe it's the places I visit.

Oh the other day I woke up real early like 6:30am and I went to FoodMart at Thappraya road, when I drove back (Jomtien beach road), there was quite a lot of activity that I didn't expect, joggers, families with kids, people sitting on that cement thing they created at the start, tuk-tuk's, I even saw plenty of Thai people as well so yes definitely high season.

Anyway I don't leave the condo much at the moment so I dont have the complete picture but as said, it doesn't seem so bad.

[rocketboybkk]

Been to Pattaya a lot & there is a family vibe if you look

Yep plenty of whores as said but they can be avoided at night.

Trouble is it's the same in Phuket, Samui etc.

There's hookers everywhere you go to the beach. Even Krabi, Phi Phi

The thing is you don't need to mix with them

The Pattaya beaches aren't the best as stated

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rimmer]

Multiple off topic posts removed, the topic is:

Pattaya is dead

[thaibeachlovers]

"Pattaya is dead"

Not having been since low season, I can't judge for myself, but................

If it is, it has exposed the myth loved by city hall that if they can only get rid of the bar scene the rich people will flock to Pattaya- obviously not many rich people have arrived.

A few suggestions as to why Pattaya may be dead:

hard times in home countries has prevented the usual numbers of mongers from arriving.

lack of talent in the bars is turning mongers off

cheap hotels thinking they can put up their prices despite still being rubbish is putting mongers off.

cheap restaurants putting up prices despite selling the same low quality food are putting mongers off.

concentrating on the Russian market when they don't use farang bars has put mongers off.

the Chinese package tour invasion is bringing no benefit to the bar scene and putting mongers off

the disastrous Beach Rd walkway project that removed the shade and the seating is putting mongers off.

Pattaya has nothing to tempt the really rich, being a decrepit run down 'hole with a rubbish beach. All the attractions that are worth while can be easily reached from Jomptien or elsewhere. Just sticking up a Central mall and a Hilton hotel isn't going to turn a pig's ear into silk.

Pattaya has been a mongers town since the 80s and driving them away is a huge mistake, the results of which are being seen now.

[davetrout]

definitly quite wife sister working as cahier for 7 years says worst ever this year she have no work had to move back sissaket with family

[morrobay]

"Pattaya is dead"

Not having been since low season, I can't judge for myself, but................

If it is, it has exposed the myth loved by city hall that if they can only get rid of the bar scene the rich people will flock to Pattaya- obviously not many rich people have arrived.

A few suggestions as to why Pattaya may be dead:

hard times in home countries has prevented the usual numbers of mongers from arriving.

lack of talent in the bars is turning mongers off

cheap hotels thinking they can put up their prices despite still being rubbish is putting mongers off.

cheap restaurants putting up prices despite selling the same low quality food are putting mongers off.

concentrating on the Russian market when they don't use farang bars has put mongers off.

the Chinese package tour invasion is bringing no benefit to the bar scene and putting mongers off

the disastrous Beach Rd walkway project that removed the shade and the seating is putting mongers off.

Pattaya has nothing to tempt the really rich, being a decrepit run down 'hole with a rubbish beach. All the attractions that are worth while can be easily reached from Jomptien or elsewhere. Just sticking up a Central mall and a Hilton hotel isn't going to turn a pig's ear into silk.

Pattaya has been a mongers town since the 80s and driving them away is a huge mistake, the results of which are being seen now.

Right On.The results of city halls efforts to attract "quality tourists" with the likes of Hilton hotel that is now being used for wholesale accommodation for the touring masses

and Hooters and McDonalds - can be seen now. The low class and getting lower tourists. Both domestic and foreign.

[LannaGuy]

Pattaya is NOT dead Bro....

you just don't know where it's all happening ,

and it IS all happening !!

where?

[brewsterbudgen]

Pattaya is NOT dead Bro....

you just don't know where it's all happening ,

and it IS all happening !!

where?

The shopping malls, Walking Street and LK Metro.

[LannaGuy]

Pattaya is NOT dead Bro....

you just don't know where it's all happening ,

and it IS all happening !!

where?

The shopping malls, Walking Street and LK Metro.

Hmmm funny... anyway 20 Russian go-go girls arrested won't enhance the 'happiness' either

[newnative]

News flash. Most beach towns attract the 'touring masses'. The touring masses being regular folk on vacation for a bit of fun and sun at the beach and getting away from their normal lives for a week or two. Nothing wrong with that--most of us are regular folk. Most of the beach towns I've been to in USA attract the 'touring masses'--and are happy to have them. Pattaya should be, too.

[tropo]

Strange I thought that motorbikes were not allowed on any other floor than the basement , or maybe ground level where the bike parking is, so I highly doubt that you would be allowed to go 6 levels on your bike.

You're correct - I don't go up 6 floors - only ground, basement and 1st level, but all the cars and bikes enter and exit the same place, so you have a fairly good idea how busy it is.

No you can't have a fairly good idea about what is going on in the car park from look at the cars that enter. Or do you think I wasted 1 hour for fun driving up 6 levels, then 6 levels down, if I had known it was that busy inside?

As promised, an update:

At about 6:30 pm, on Monday, December 28 there were about 500 free car spaces available in Central car park, but the shopping center was very busy.

[swissie]

"Pattaya is dead"

Not having been since low season, I can't judge for myself, but................

If it is, it has exposed the myth loved by city hall that if they can only get rid of the bar scene the rich people will flock to Pattaya- obviously not many rich people have arrived.

A few suggestions as to why Pattaya may be dead:

hard times in home countries has prevented the usual numbers of mongers from arriving.

lack of talent in the bars is turning mongers off

cheap hotels thinking they can put up their prices despite still being rubbish is putting mongers off.

cheap restaurants putting up prices despite selling the same low quality food are putting mongers off.

concentrating on the Russian market when they don't use farang bars has put mongers off.

the Chinese package tour invasion is bringing no benefit to the bar scene and putting mongers off

the disastrous Beach Rd walkway project that removed the shade and the seating is putting mongers off.

Pattaya has nothing to tempt the really rich, being a decrepit run down 'hole with a rubbish beach. All the attractions that are worth while can be easily reached from Jomptien or elsewhere. Just sticking up a Central mall and a Hilton hotel isn't going to turn a pig's ear into silk.

Pattaya has been a mongers town since the 80s and driving them away is a huge mistake, the results of which are being seen now.

Quote:"lack of talent in the bars is turning mongers off".

Because of this. some alert entrepreneurs will soon open "Do it yourself Masturbation-Clubs" in Pattaya ! The way things are going, just wait and see.

Cheers.

[TheCruncher]

Strange I thought that motorbikes were not allowed on any other floor than the basement , or maybe ground level where the bike parking is, so I highly doubt that you would be allowed to go 6 levels on your bike.

You're correct - I don't go up 6 floors - only ground, basement and 1st level, but all the cars and bikes enter and exit the same place, so you have a fairly good idea how busy it is.

No you can't have a fairly good idea about what is going on in the car park from look at the cars that enter. Or do you think I wasted 1 hour for fun driving up 6 levels, then 6 levels down, if I had known it was that busy inside?

As promised, an update:

At about 6:30 pm, on Monday, December 28 there were about 500 free car spaces available in Central car park, but the shopping center was very busy.

Actually I couldn't care less about your selective updates, and I think that NewNative already sufficiently explained what it means if the car parking system at Central displays 500 free car spaces.

[Rogermoore]

Deadest in 22 years getting small infux for new years watch after that so dead here .

[Jip99]

"Pattaya is dead"

Not having been since low season, I can't judge for myself, but................

If it is, it has exposed the myth loved by city hall that if they can only get rid of the bar scene the rich people will flock to Pattaya- obviously not many rich people have arrived.

A few suggestions as to why Pattaya may be dead:

hard times in home countries has prevented the usual numbers of mongers from arriving.

lack of talent in the bars is turning mongers off

cheap hotels thinking they can put up their prices despite still being rubbish is putting mongers off.

cheap restaurants putting up prices despite selling the same low quality food are putting mongers off.

concentrating on the Russian market when they don't use farang bars has put mongers off.

the Chinese package tour invasion is bringing no benefit to the bar scene and putting mongers off

the disastrous Beach Rd walkway project that removed the shade and the seating is putting mongers off.

Pattaya has nothing to tempt the really rich, being a decrepit run down 'hole with a rubbish beach. All the attractions that are worth while can be easily reached from Jomptien or elsewhere. Just sticking up a Central mall and a Hilton hotel isn't going to turn a pig's ear into silk.

Pattaya has been a mongers town since the 80s and driving them away is a huge mistake, the results of which are being seen now.

Quote:"lack of talent in the bars is turning mongers off".

Because of this. some alert entrepreneurs will soon open "Do it yourself Masturbation-Clubs" in Pattaya ! The way things are going, just wait and see.

Cheers.

Count me in - I hope they do a Loyalty Card............

[tropo]

Actually I couldn't care less about your selective updates, and I think that NewNative already sufficiently explained what it means if the car parking system at Central displays 500 free car spaces.

I selected this date to prove the point that...

It's pretty clear there's no correlation between free car park spaces and the number of international tourists. An empty car park during one of the busiest weeks of the year demonstrates that rather well.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Seems that there are a couple of cheerleaders here trying to convince us that Pattaya is packed to the rafters. Seems odd.

[thaibeachlovers]

Actually I couldn't care less about your selective updates, and I think that NewNative already sufficiently explained what it means if the car parking system at Central displays 500 free car spaces.

I selected this date to prove the point that...

It's pretty clear there's no correlation between free car park spaces and the number of international tourists. An empty car park during one of the busiest weeks of the year demonstrates that rather well.

I think you are saying that the lack of cars in a car park does not mean there are few tourists. However, that is self evident as tourists don't tend to drive in Thailand- perhaps they drive long distance, but few would be brave enough to brave the traffic insanity in Pattaya just to drive locally.

The only real means of monitoring the actual numbers is the notification hotels have to send to the government when a guest checks in. How to get that info I have no idea.

[thaibeachlovers]

This thread is cheering me up no end. I've been saying for years that the anti monger policies of city hall would cause a downturn in numbers, but the Russian invasion delayed that a long time. Now I seem to be able, at last, to say "I told you so".

BTW, I'd been saying that the same thing would happen to Samui, and a thread on the Samui forum seems to support that too.

It's elementary- you can't charge more for the same rubbish infrastructure every year and expect people to still be happy to turn up and pay through the nose.

For both destinations, expect to see more package tourists staying in self sufficient resorts, and not venturing out to support local restaurants and shops. The only view Pattaya barkeeps will have of them is as they drive by in the AC bus or van to/from the resort.

[never me]

This thread is cheering me up no end. I've been saying for years that the anti monger policies of city hall would cause a downturn in numbers, but the Russian invasion delayed that a long time. Now I seem to be able, at last, to say "I told you so".

BTW, I'd been saying that the same thing would happen to Samui, and a thread on the Samui forum seems to support that too.

It's elementary- you can't charge more for the same rubbish infrastructure every year and expect people to still be happy to turn up and pay through the nose.

For both destinations, expect to see more package tourists staying in self sufficient resorts, and not venturing out to support local restaurants and shops. The only view Pattaya barkeeps will have of them is as they drive by in the AC bus or van to/from the resort.

you can't charge more for the same rubbish infrastructure every year and expect people to still be happy to turn up and pay through the nose.

Thais think they can.

[lou62]

I took a trip into Pattaya from Jomtien last night around 1800hrs. Mobbed with traffic all the way, the Baht Bus even headed onto third road instead of travelling the normal route.

The last time that I travel at that time, nightmare.

[newnative]

Hmm. 'Deadest in 22 years'. I doubt that. I'm sure there are more tourists now than 22 years ago, but a different mix. It may seem deader but that's just that Pattaya has grown tremendously in those years and the tourists are now spread out more. But, it may be true that less of them are camping out on bar stools for the duration and are doing other things instead; hence, the mongers feeling their bar is dead.

[dennis123]

Travelling from Jomtine to Pattaya at 18:00pm is never a wise move, even in low season it can be stuck Lou62

What I heard from some long time holiday visitors is that the personal contact with people is getting lost, for example when one of them used to rent a beach chair they always came say hello and talked for a while and had fun in between, now he gets ignored and have to move around 5 times to finally get attention for a new beer. That's just one simple example.

The working Pattaya people seem to become more lazy by the day, you notice that in the bars as well, sometimes you can walk in a bar and a group of 5-6 Thais that work there are sitting drinking Whiskey, no one pays attention to you, I even noticed this myself a few times and many more times when older tourists come in for a drink, no one to come care besides serving them a drink quickly and rejoining his/her friends. Result is obviously that the client leaves after one drink.

I even had a bar myself for a few months, I closed it quickly, my staff got paid a little better and many felt that was enough to get around and less need to depend on tips from drinks, so as a result in some cases no one took care when an older customer walked in. i obviously told my boyfriend to say something about it but their response was, nah this tourists doesn't like sit with a boy, yeah <deleted> right, that's why he's looking around him all the time, some people are just more shy than others and in such cases you expect staff to take the initiative but nothing at all. For the record I'm not shy so it doesn't happen too me, but when I don't take any initiative I could be sitting there alone as well. Anyway for me it's different as I know everyone in the bars but I do observe it as I described many times.

I've been to beer bars at Pattaya beach road as well, eg lady bars, as I'm not interested in ladies I mostly chat up with the bar tender (girl) or tourists, in those bars there's never a lack of attention so maybe it's a gay thing. HOWEVER: The ladies that approach me, and the overall image of the ladies working in these bars is that the vast majority is 30+ years old, unattractive, and somewhat over weight, some plain fat.

I'm not handsome but I'm pretty damn sure I can get these type of ladies for free in my home country, no need to come to Thailand and pay them for sex, my god.

The same I see in those boy bars, most are not attractive at all, many aren't even gay, last time I went into a GoGo bar and I was being generous and everyone wanted to go with me, few of them actually did look nice but it soon became clear they were all straight, and that in a gay go go bar. Now this is exceptional I have to add but that it even exists does surprise me.

So yes, Pattaya is definitely becoming less interesting for whore mongers, I came here 3.5 years ago and back than it was a little better, though not much better, no idea about 10 years ago but I do know that my holiday in Koh Samui about 18 years ago was a complete different experience in a positive sense and I never paid for sex, could have to do with my young attractive age back than lol.

Now if I compare many of the prostitutes here to the male prostitutes in Belgium and Germany I really don't have to travel all the way to Thailand for that, and for straight guys that's even more of a thing as there is a obvously a much broader choice of female hookers in Europe compared to male.

So if a straight friend would ask me if Thailand it's worth it for the sex I would say you could just stay at home and visit the red light district or go to a club, it's probably even more affordable as it's not like the beer is very cheap here either, especially not when four ladies hang around you begging for shots, a 5000-10000 baht is easily spend in a few hours if you don't care much. Heck my brother and a few friends were here and they visited some place in Bangkok and spend 28,000 baht with the four of them lol. They told me, Dennis isn't Thailand supposed to be cheap?

All together it was likely their most expensive holiday ever lol.

So yes, travelling 10-12 hours by plane for nearly a 1000 euro ticket to find ugly hookers, ugly beaches, smell of sewer at certain places, many would think twice!

[dennis123]

Personally I had the idea I would stay in Pattaya till retirement, that view has changed quite a bit, in the spring I go home and in the autumn I go check out the Phillipines and Bali first and after I might return to Thailand. If your sexless for a decent amount of time than Pattaya sounds pretty interesting, but once you've done a hundred or so the need seems to decline so the whole allure of Pattaya is for me personally degrading quickly. Add to that that it feels like an old peoples home in low season, especially in gay bars, 60-65 years old seems to be the average age.

[Tolley]

Travelling from Jomtine to Pattaya at 18:00pm is never a wise move, even in low season it can be stuck Lou62

What I heard from some long time holiday visitors is that the personal contact with people is getting lost, for example when one of them used to rent a beach chair they always came say hello and talked for a while and had fun in between, now he gets ignored and have to move around 5 times to finally get attention for a new beer. That's just one simple example.

The working Pattaya people seem to become more lazy by the day, you notice that in the bars as well, sometimes you can walk in a bar and a group of 5-6 Thais that work there are sitting drinking Whiskey, no one pays attention to you, I even noticed this myself a few times and many more times when older tourists come in for a drink, no one to come care besides serving them a drink quickly and rejoining his/her friends. Result is obviously that the client leaves after one drink.

I even had a bar myself for a few months, I closed it quickly, my staff got paid a little better and many felt that was enough to get around and less need to depend on tips from drinks, so as a result in some cases no one took care when an older customer walked in. i obviously told my boyfriend to say something about it but their response was, nah this tourists doesn't like sit with a boy, yeah <deleted> right, that's why he's looking around him all the time, some people are just more shy than others and in such cases you expect staff to take the initiative but nothing at all. For the record I'm not shy so it doesn't happen too me, but when I don't take any initiative I could be sitting there alone as well. Anyway for me it's different as I know everyone in the bars but I do observe it as I described many times.

I've been to beer bars at Pattaya beach road as well, eg lady bars, as I'm not interested in ladies I mostly chat up with the bar tender (girl) or tourists, in those bars there's never a lack of attention so maybe it's a gay thing. HOWEVER: The ladies that approach me, and the overall image of the ladies working in these bars is that the vast majority is 30+ years old, unattractive, and somewhat over weight, some plain fat.

I'm not handsome but I'm pretty damn sure I can get these type of ladies for free in my home country, no need to come to Thailand and pay them for sex, my god.

The same I see in those boy bars, most are not attractive at all, many aren't even gay, last time I went into a GoGo bar and I was being generous and everyone wanted to go with me, few of them actually did look nice but it soon became clear they were all straight, and that in a gay go go bar. Now this is exceptional I have to add but that it even exists does surprise me.

So yes, Pattaya is definitely becoming less interesting for whore mongers, I came here 3.5 years ago and back than it was a little better, though not much better, no idea about 10 years ago but I do know that my holiday in Koh Samui about 18 years ago was a complete different experience in a positive sense and I never paid for sex, could have to do with my young attractive age back than lol.

Now if I compare many of the prostitutes here to the male prostitutes in Belgium and Germany I really don't have to travel all the way to Thailand for that, and for straight guys that's even more of a thing as there is a obvously a much broader choice of female hookers in Europe compared to male.

So if a straight friend would ask me if Thailand it's worth it for the sex I would say you could just stay at home and visit the red light district or go to a club, it's probably even more affordable as it's not like the beer is very cheap here either, especially not when four ladies hang around you begging for shots, a 5000-10000 baht is easily spend in a few hours if you don't care much. Heck my brother and a few friends were here and they visited some place in Bangkok and spend 28,000 baht with the four of them lol. They told me, Dennis isn't Thailand supposed to be cheap?

All together it was likely their most expensive holiday ever lol.

So yes, travelling 10-12 hours by plane for nearly a 1000 euro ticket to find ugly hookers, ugly beaches, smell of sewer at certain places, many would think twice!

Same same for straight sex tourists.

You can stay in Europe and shag sensational hot euro gals for 50 euros in the clubs in Germany and the thai gals of good quality in Thailand are asking a lot more than that these days.

Sex tourists better off going to Cambodia or Phillipines when looking at prices at Thailand.

Long term stayers in Patts are excluded because anyone staying here for a long time can get gals cheap and of good quality and of course accommodation and shopping at supermarket saves a lot of money. So still okay for the long termers but not really so great if you are on a quick holiday as you get gouged every which way.