Investing 5 million baht in CM

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Pal of mine purchased 2x 2 room condos in CM a couple of years back.

Neither have ever been rented out.

It doesn't appear to be a good investment at the moment.

Prices are high, rents are low, customers are few.

Where are they located?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

So with 5 million to burn I'd be looking at getting two or three places between one and two million. And then the remaining money you get to use for renovations, furniture, etc. It does all need to look crisp and new.

Also the worse the current state the better it is, because chances are you'll end up doing major renovations anyway, which often means gutting the lot so it doesn't matter if it looked complete crap or 'somewhat okay' to begin with.

This while making sure that the building itself is not a complete disaster in terms of management and facilities. Doesn't need to be super and it can definitely be a bit older, but things like elevators, water supply and general appearance of the lobby should not be in doubt.)

Or just say 'F#$& It' and go enjoy that 5 million, using it on hot bikes and fast women instead of squandering it.. Hmmm...

[Rancid]

You are asking for financial advice on an open forum. Some advice has been good and others not necessarily.

Bear in mind that some replies will be from those that have done it and succeeded and others are just expressing a personal opinion that may or may not include their personal biases.

Real estate involves more than buying properties, it means getting the right property in the right location at the right price. As property has been booming for quite a while finding that right price will be more difficult, but not necessarily undoable.

Property goes in cycles, seems we are peaking now but it could well last much longer, with all the manipulation going on in world economies these days the rules have changed. Who knows.

A Chinese slum Lord in Bangkok once told me he went after the low end of the market as it would never be vacant, good times or bad. Some sense to that, generally the return on multiple cheaper condos is better than one high end, but there is more running around involved.

The current gov has been tilting toward China but the US is applying a lot of devices to get them back in the fold, what happens there will also affect the long term outlook if after the western tenant.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Rancid

[Bung]

Nah, not for renting out condos I don't think. I've never heard that before. Foreigners can own condos.

Hahaha. You think. Better think agaian because if you rent ANYTHING out here you are making an income that would require taxes to be paid on the income and so you would need a work permit to do it legally.

Any foreigner renting something out is leaving themselves open to prosecution.

Chiang Mai Immigration has already done several crackdowns on foreign condo owners receiving rental incomes illegally.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Advice for the OP. Forget it.

I think the economy in Thailand is going to get worse.

If you haven't noticed Canadian currency is in a dump. I mean it's worse than Aussie dollar and has been dropping against every currency in the world. 5 Milion baht (which was 6 million just 2 years ago) is less than 200,000 dollars once you get hit with wire transfer rates for a condo purchase.

I have about the same amount in Cash as you. I thought of investing in 2 condos, but the quality of build here is just lacking. I am actually thinking of doing the reverse. Investing in Canada. Even my gf who owns her own place tells me that condos are a terrible investment in Thailand.

When I was planing my purchase I joined about 10 different facebook pages with different developers. I can tell you that every single one has customers where they post pictures of leaky windows and mold on walls. It doesn't matter how much you paid, one million of 15 million - same problem.

Gutting the place and renovating? In a condo? I haven't lol'd in a while. Gutting what? This is Thailand. Perhaps the guy who suggested that should stick to TLC channel.

[baywatch82]

Property bubble ... economy crisis.... oversupply... 5 years ago... 10 year ago .... taxes .... bla bla blaaa

Every investment needs some damn guts.

In a meanwhile ... who purchased 6-7 years ago has investment returned already and the train is still going.

Everyone who is giving you all those crappy advises, I would love to see their successful business portfolio. I bet there is non.

Successful investor will never be afraid of such a risks.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Property bubble ... economy crisis.... oversupply... 5 years ago... 10 year ago .... taxes .... bla bla blaaa

Every investment needs some damn guts.

In a meanwhile ... who purchased 6-7 years ago has investment returned already and the train is still going.

Everyone who is giving you all those crappy advises, I would love to see their successful business portfolio. I bet there is non.

Successful investor will never be afraid of such a risks.

So, you are advising the OP to buy property in Thailand while the currency has tanked against Thai baht 30% in the last 2 years?

Yeah... bla, bla, blah

[baywatch82]

Property bubble ... economy crisis.... oversupply... 5 years ago... 10 year ago .... taxes .... bla bla blaaa

Every investment needs some damn guts.

In a meanwhile ... who purchased 6-7 years ago has investment returned already and the train is still going.

Everyone who is giving you all those crappy advises, I would love to see their successful business portfolio. I bet there is non.

Successful investor will never be afraid of such a risks.

So, you are advising the OP to buy property in Thailand while the currency has tanked against Thai baht 30% in the last 2 years?

Yeah... bla, bla, blah

Why would I worry about any other currencies, if my long term goal is to stay and live in Thailand ?

Moreover, having investment in Thailand, I wish other currencies will go down another 30%....

[mihalis]

Research, see what will give u best income..

[mascarabertha]

Property bubble ... economy crisis.... oversupply... 5 years ago... 10 year ago .... taxes .... bla bla blaaa

Every investment needs some damn guts.

In a meanwhile ... who purchased 6-7 years ago has investment returned already and the train is still going.

Everyone who is giving you all those crappy advises, I would love to see their successful business portfolio. I bet there is non.

Successful investor will never be afraid of such a risks.

So, you are advising the OP to buy property in Thailand while the currency has tanked against Thai baht 30% in the last 2 years?

Yeah... bla, bla, blah

great time to buy with USD

[bangmai]

Rental tax is 12.5%, so if you are allowing 50% for expenses, you are losing 25% on that. That's before income tax. I think the Airbnb people are going to have trouble with the TM30/28, whichever one you use to notify immigration of foreigner in your property. I have a brokerage account here, and even they, do not understand the different rules for foreigner...I'm sure you could find some quality stocks in your home country, that will net you more than rental properties in Thailand, unless you can rent for 1% of purchase price per month....you would still only net 6%, less rental tax, would put you at 4.5%.....

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Property bubble ... economy crisis.... oversupply... 5 years ago... 10 year ago .... taxes .... bla bla blaaa

Every investment needs some damn guts.

In a meanwhile ... who purchased 6-7 years ago has investment returned already and the train is still going.

Everyone who is giving you all those crappy advises, I would love to see their successful business portfolio. I bet there is non.

Successful investor will never be afraid of such a risks.

So, you are advising the OP to buy property in Thailand while the currency has tanked against Thai baht 30% in the last 2 years?

Yeah... bla, bla, blah

Why would I worry about any other currencies, if my long term goal is to stay and live in Thailand ?

Moreover, having investment in Thailand, I wish other currencies will go down another 30%....

If your long term goal is to stay in Thailand then why you wish other currencies to go down another 30%?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The current gov has been tilting toward China but the US is applying a lot of devices to get them back in the fold, what happens there will also affect the long term outlook if after the western tenant.

European guests, North American guests, South American guests, Chinese guests, Other Asian Guests... all results in the same color of money.

Initially got a lot of people from France: had to get a toaster and coffee maker. Then got a lot of people from China/Asia: had to get a rice cooker.

You get just about any place in the world, except Thai for some reason.

But ultimately everyone is happy, and everyone enjoys Chiang Mai. It's an interesting mix of nationalities that Chiang Mai gets. It actually makes me feel really good to hear people enjoy Chiang Mai no matter where they came from.

I think the economy in Thailand is going to get worse.

Well that would be great news. Tourist money will go further, and more people can afford Thailand again.

I don't share you optimism though, I think we're in for a seriously dark era which will impact tourism significantly. (And expats too actually)

Edited December 29, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[chicowoodduck]

Invest in LOS??? If that thought ever crosses my mind I just double down on my stupid pills....lol :-)

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I don't wanna be an armchair economist, so I make it simple.

I look at what 200,000 can buy me in Toronto (apparently one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world) and Bangkok.

In both cities, 200,000k won't get me much, but at least in Canada I am in my own territory and even though there is property tax and higher maintenance fees I have a piece of mind regarding better construction and condos that won't fall apart in 10 years. Another big advantage over Bangkok is an extremely liquid market which in Bangkok just doesn't exist.

Speaking of, I bought my shoebox Toronto condo in 2010 and thought I bought at the top (apparently I did not). When I decided to move to Thailand in 2013 I literally rented my condo in 2 days. I had 50 people lining up to see it. Now, someone is paying my mortgage.

Would this happen in Bangkok? Not a chance. There are units sitting empty for years.

[mascarabertha]

I don't wanna be an armchair economist, so I make it simple.

I look at what 200,000 can buy me in Toronto (apparently one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world) and Bangkok.

In both cities, 200,000k won't get me much, but at least in Canada I am in my own territory and even though there is property tax and higher maintenance fees I have a piece of mind regarding better construction and condos that won't fall apart in 10 years. Another big advantage over Bangkok is an extremely liquid market which in Bangkok just doesn't exist.

Speaking of, I bought my shoebox Toronto condo in 2010 and thought I bought at the top (apparently I did not). When I decided to move to Thailand in 2013 I literally rented my condo in 2 days. I had 50 people lining up to see it. Now, someone is paying my mortgage.

Would this happen in Bangkok? Not a chance. There are units sitting empty for years.

the flaw in your formula is your mortgage. no debt no worries

[mascarabertha]

I don't wanna be an armchair economist, so I make it simple.

I look at what 200,000 can buy me in Toronto (apparently one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world) and Bangkok.

In both cities, 200,000k won't get me much, but at least in Canada I am in my own territory and even though there is property tax and higher maintenance fees I have a piece of mind regarding better construction and condos that won't fall apart in 10 years. Another big advantage over Bangkok is an extremely liquid market which in Bangkok just doesn't exist.

Speaking of, I bought my shoebox Toronto condo in 2010 and thought I bought at the top (apparently I did not). When I decided to move to Thailand in 2013 I literally rented my condo in 2 days. I had 50 people lining up to see it. Now, someone is paying my mortgage.

Would this happen in Bangkok? Not a chance. There are units sitting empty for years.

I have a condo in bangkok and your right it's empty so when I go down to bkk it's free for me. duh

your logic and reasoning escape me

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I don't wanna be an armchair economist, so I make it simple.

I look at what 200,000 can buy me in Toronto (apparently one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world) and Bangkok.

In both cities, 200,000k won't get me much, but at least in Canada I am in my own territory and even though there is property tax and higher maintenance fees I have a piece of mind regarding better construction and condos that won't fall apart in 10 years. Another big advantage over Bangkok is an extremely liquid market which in Bangkok just doesn't exist.

Speaking of, I bought my shoebox Toronto condo in 2010 and thought I bought at the top (apparently I did not). When I decided to move to Thailand in 2013 I literally rented my condo in 2 days. I had 50 people lining up to see it. Now, someone is paying my mortgage.

Would this happen in Bangkok? Not a chance. There are units sitting empty for years.

This seems to happen a lot to you where you don't notice this is the Chiang Mai forum, not Bangkok or Pattaya or wherever else?

[sydneyjed]

I know a couple of guys who became millionaires in Thailand...only problem was they started off as multi-millionaires!

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I don't wanna be an armchair economist, so I make it simple.

I look at what 200,000 can buy me in Toronto (apparently one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world) and Bangkok.

In both cities, 200,000k won't get me much, but at least in Canada I am in my own territory and even though there is property tax and higher maintenance fees I have a piece of mind regarding better construction and condos that won't fall apart in 10 years. Another big advantage over Bangkok is an extremely liquid market which in Bangkok just doesn't exist.

Speaking of, I bought my shoebox Toronto condo in 2010 and thought I bought at the top (apparently I did not). When I decided to move to Thailand in 2013 I literally rented my condo in 2 days. I had 50 people lining up to see it. Now, someone is paying my mortgage.

Would this happen in Bangkok? Not a chance. There are units sitting empty for years.

This seems to happen a lot to you where you don't notice this is the Chiang Mai forum, not Bangkok or Pattaya or wherever else?

Hehe.....

[yimlitnoy]

I suggest that you invest in your own country.

[mcfish]

1. you are about 4 years+ too late.

2, Air BnB is in a tough position in Thailand - see news. also many AirBnB falangs were busted by immigration for renting w/o work permit, not paying taxes, etc...

3. Thailand's economy expected to be in very bad shape in the coming year. not a good time.

4. consider other options; securities...

You have a link to a bust? I assume there are are many being caught out and it's a genuine question

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[alfieconn]

Property bubble ... economy crisis.... oversupply... 5 years ago... 10 year ago .... taxes .... bla bla blaaa

Every investment needs some damn guts.

In a meanwhile ... who purchased 6-7 years ago has investment returned already and the train is still going.

Everyone who is giving you all those crappy advises, I would love to see their successful business portfolio. I bet there is non.

Successful investor will never be afraid of such a risks.

So, you are advising the OP to buy property in Thailand while the currency has tanked against Thai baht 30% in the last 2 years?

Yeah... bla, bla, blah

Why would I worry about any other currencies, if my long term goal is to stay and live in Thailand ?

Moreover, having investment in Thailand, I wish other currencies will go down another 30%....

If your long term goal is to stay in Thailand then why you wish other currencies to go down another 30%?

Because if all someone's assets are held in Thailand they never know when they might to have return home and a depreciation of their home currency would obviously be beneficial.

[alfieconn]

Advice for the OP. Forget it.

I think the economy in Thailand is going to get worse.

If you haven't noticed Canadian currency is in a dump. I mean it's worse than Aussie dollar and has been dropping against every currency in the world. 5 Milion baht (which was 6 million just 2 years ago) is less than 200,000 dollars once you get hit with wire transfer rates for a condo purchase.

I have about the same amount in Cash as you. I thought of investing in 2 condos, but the quality of build here is just lacking. I am actually thinking of doing the reverse. Investing in Canada. Even my gf who owns her own place tells me that condos are a terrible investment in Thailand.

When I was planing my purchase I joined about 10 different facebook pages with different developers. I can tell you that every single one has customers where they post pictures of leaky windows and mold on walls. It doesn't matter how much you paid, one million of 15 million - same problem.

Gutting the place and renovating? In a condo? I haven't lol'd in a while. Gutting what? This is Thailand. Perhaps the guy who suggested that should stick to TLC channel.

Is not the rate against the Canadian dollar irrelevant as the Op has already said he holds the currency in Thai baht

[SOTIRIOS]

.....hmmmm....

[peterb17]

Haven't you noticed that we are living in a country ruled by a military Junta?

The Government seems bent of continuously passing laws to make Thailand a much less attractive place for tourists.

TAT will tell you numbers are up- the Chinese/ Indian tours do not rent condos .

The country is getting more filthy by the minute,

The idea that you ( as a foreigner) can invest a few million here and actually make a decent return is madness.

Just enjoy your money.

[GarryP]

Okay what about the case of a foreigner who has become Thai citizen and can own property in his own name. I would also have thought that if the bubble breaks next year, as so many people seem to think it will, then wouldn't it be a good time to pick up cheap property for long term investment. Some of us call Thailand home and fluctuations of currencies around the world has no bearing on our lives, we will not be going anywhere and are here until we are put in the ground or burned to a crisp.

[chiang mai]

Haven't you noticed that we are living in a country ruled by a military Junta?

The Government seems bent of continuously passing laws to make Thailand a much less attractive place for tourists.

TAT will tell you numbers are up- the Chinese/ Indian tours do not rent condos .

The country is getting more filthy by the minute,

The idea that you ( as a foreigner) can invest a few million here and actually make a decent return is madness.

Just enjoy your money.

Nonsense, listen, investors who don't have any balls ought to stay home and put their money into a post office savings account!

And have you ever thought why there's so many Chinese businesses in Thailand, it's because they at least know there are good investments to be had here that will produce solid returns.

And And: in no way shape or form is the Thai government making Thailand more unattractive to tourists. They're making Thailand more and more unattractive to would be or pseudo tourists, those that want to live here but don't have the correct visa to do so.

Edited December 29, 2015 by chiang mai

[mcfish]

Why would OP ask TV members, 96.5% who don't have 5000 baht in the bank if investing 5 mill is a good idea?

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[MaeJoMTB]

Okay what about the case of a foreigner who has become Thai citizen and can own property in his own name. I would also have thought that if the bubble breaks next year, as so many people seem to think it will, then wouldn't it be a good time to pick up cheap property for long term investment. Some of us call Thailand home and fluctuations of currencies around the world has no bearing on our lives, we will not be going anywhere and are here until we are put in the ground or burned to a crisp.

What if you're deported?

What if VISA restrictions are changed, and you can't meet the new requirements?

What if civil unrest (or war) happens, and all foreigners are told to leave?

You might mistakenly call this country home, but you have no right to stay here.

You're only here while the Thai government let you stay here.

Edited December 29, 2015 by MaeJoMTB