Are well priced Pattaya resale condos selling now, or not?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Here is a ad I saw recently in the Pattaya Mail: 33 SQM Studio, Soi 15 Central Pattaya. Walking distance to nearly everything Pattaya has to offer. B 2,580,000. And another: Markalnd, refurbished, sea view studio,

48 sqm, B3,000,000. The ad didn't say exactly where the 33 sqm unit is located by I'm familiar with Markland. Both prices seem pretty high. I can't imagine a 33 sqm unit for that price.

try 30m² for 3.8 million!

http://www.thailand-property.com/developments/97/southpoint

That's pretty standard for the Marland...and it's probably a north facing unit (I. E., staring at the Holiday Inn so no view). A south facing unit would be 500k-1M more.

[bkk6060]

I have looked at some discounted places. Like some have said up to 50%.

But there is always some issue. Poor location or a major construction project nearby that will create noise for the next 2 years.

But my opinion is, why buy a place?

The rents are so cheap in Pattaya compared to my country for a nice ocean view in a quiet area.

I would never buy a place.

[whitemouse]

three persons (two good friends, one acquaintance) bought 6 units (all studios, price range 900k to 3.9m, foreign owned) in august, oktober and november 2015. 3 units were bought slightly below asking price, the other 3 at full asking price.

From what I know of Pattaya real estate, paying the asking price just means that some agent or rep somewhere has made a huge commission out of the sale and that the vendor will be very happy. The likelihood of being able to resell the same unit for the same price is very low.

Perhaps you can tell us for how long those properties were for sale at the asking prices? And how many offers were made by others, and how much they were for? That might cast more light on the true value.

i can tell you what i had for dinner yesterday and for breakfast today. i can also tell you that the buyers had specific, albeit completely different, reasons to accept the prices they paid. but i refrain from telling you the reasons because you won't understand as these reasons are light years apart from your thinking of "real/true value" and "reselling".

but i have to admit that buying a 38m² studio for THB 3.9 million to use three or four times a year for a couple of weeks each time is also light years apart from my thinking.

Interesting!

What kind of cosmic reasons can there be to pay asking price for real estate here, especially condos right now? Reasons so complicated, that none of us are unable to grasp?

There is only couple of reasons to buy a condo here, and I can't think of a single reason to pay asking price, unless that asking price is significantly lower than average in that building. I'm just curious.

[TheCruncher]

three persons (two good friends, one acquaintance) bought 6 units (all studios, price range 900k to 3.9m, foreign owned) in august, oktober and november 2015. 3 units were bought slightly below asking price, the other 3 at full asking price.

From what I know of Pattaya real estate, paying the asking price just means that some agent or rep somewhere has made a huge commission out of the sale and that the vendor will be very happy. The likelihood of being able to resell the same unit for the same price is very low.

Perhaps you can tell us for how long those properties were for sale at the asking prices? And how many offers were made by others, and how much they were for? That might cast more light on the true value.

i can tell you what i had for dinner yesterday and for breakfast today. i can also tell you that the buyers had specific, albeit completely different, reasons to accept the prices they paid. but i refrain from telling you the reasons because you won't understand as these reasons are light years apart from your thinking of "real/true value" and "reselling".

but i have to admit that buying a 38m² studio for THB 3.9 million to use three or four times a year for a couple of weeks each time is also light years apart from my thinking.

Interesting!

What kind of cosmic reasons can there be to pay asking price for real estate here, especially condos right now? Reasons so complicated, that none of us are unable to grasp?

There is only couple of reasons to buy a condo here, and I can't think of a single reason to pay asking price, unless that asking price is significantly lower than average in that building. I'm just curious.

May be Naam's friends are not the kind that are on a budget, and he just wanted to be polite in his answer.

Edited January 3, 2016 by TheCruncher

[Naam]

May be Naam's friends are not the kind that are on a budget, and he just wanted to be polite in his answer.

ladies and gentlemen... we have a winner!

[anto]

I have looked at some discounted places. Like some have said up to 50%.

But there is always some issue. Poor location or a major construction project nearby that will create noise for the next 2 years.

But my opinion is, why buy a place?

The rents are so cheap in Pattaya compared to my country for a nice ocean view in a quiet area.

I would never buy a place.

>>I would never buy a place. <<...Up to you ,and completely your choice.In my case i have bought 2 Condos and 2 houses in Thailand over a 12 year period .Only have one house now though ,which me and my Thai wife and children are happy with . . I only regret one of those purchases ,but still broke even even on that .

[Nomyai]

I have looked at some discounted places. Like some have said up to 50%.

But there is always some issue. Poor location or a major construction project nearby that will create noise for the next 2 years.

But my opinion is, why buy a place?

The rents are so cheap in Pattaya compared to my country for a nice ocean view in a quiet area.

I would never buy a place.

The only time it is a good idea to buy is if you are going to personally use it for at least 20-25 years, other than that it is silly.

[Nomyai]

three persons (two good friends, one acquaintance) bought 6 units (all studios, price range 900k to 3.9m, foreign owned) in august, oktober and november 2015. 3 units were bought slightly below asking price, the other 3 at full asking price.

From what I know of Pattaya real estate, paying the asking price just means that some agent or rep somewhere has made a huge commission out of the sale and that the vendor will be very happy. The likelihood of being able to resell the same unit for the same price is very low.

Perhaps you can tell us for how long those properties were for sale at the asking prices? And how many offers were made by others, and how much they were for? That might cast more light on the true value.

i can tell you what i had for dinner yesterday and for breakfast today. i can also tell you that the buyers had specific, albeit completely different, reasons to accept the prices they paid. but i refrain from telling you the reasons because you won't understand as these reasons are light years apart from your thinking of "real/true value" and "reselling".

but i have to admit that buying a 38m² studio for THB 3.9 million to use three or four times a year for a couple of weeks each time is also light years apart from my thinking.

Interesting!

What kind of cosmic reasons can there be to pay asking price for real estate here, especially condos right now? Reasons so complicated, that none of us are unable to grasp?

There is only couple of reasons to buy a condo here, and I can't think of a single reason to pay asking price, unless that asking price is significantly lower than average in that building. I'm just curious.

As for all silly decisions made in thailand-i bet it has to do with a thai gurl..............................................hahahaha.

[Naam]

Here is a ad I saw recently in the Pattaya Mail: 33 SQM Studio, Soi 15 Central Pattaya. Walking distance to nearly everything Pattaya has to offer. B 2,580,000. And another: Markalnd, refurbished, sea view studio,

48 sqm, B3,000,000. The ad didn't say exactly where the 33 sqm unit is located by I'm familiar with Markland. Both prices seem pretty high. I can't imagine a 33 sqm unit for that price.

try 30m² for 3.8 million!

http://www.thailand-property.com/developments/97/southpoint

That's pretty standard for the Marland...and it's probably a north facing unit (I. E., staring at the Holiday Inn so no view). A south facing unit would be 500k-1M more.

i have no idea what direction this studio is facing. i just googled and gave an example to the gentleman "who can't imagine..."

[TheCruncher]

I have looked at some discounted places. Like some have said up to 50%.

But there is always some issue. Poor location or a major construction project nearby that will create noise for the next 2 years.

But my opinion is, why buy a place?

The rents are so cheap in Pattaya compared to my country for a nice ocean view in a quiet area.

I would never buy a place.

To say rents in Pattaya are cheap is subjective at the least.

Yes they are much cheaper than in your home country, but you also get much less, and compared to the value of the property they are expensive.

In the past years, currently much less so, it was easy to get a +10% annual return on a condo in Pattaya.

I've never heard about 10% annual returns on a condo in my home country.

Edited January 3, 2016 by TheCruncher

[pegman]

If you are willing to sell at a fraction of a sensible price in the first place say upto 50%, off that sensible price, there are plenty of buyers around, many Thai who would also be knocking at your door, this is apart from the foreign offshore workers with plenty of spare cash who have joined forces with the delightfully Bright Thai young ladies who have learned all about the buying, selling and renting of houses condos when employed at the bigger real estate agents in town and are now making their knowledge work for them as partners of these foreign speculators.

I also think that position is as another poster pointed out primary in the quick selling of anything whether it is a condo or a house.

But this is not the time to sell in Pattaya because there is just not the turnover of tourists converting to residents as there used to be when all of the ( Most of anyway) male recently divorced or retired or both, european population was coming here with loaded wallets and a good exchange rate to boot and marrying the love of their lives, leaving their hotels not for a condo but for a house

Maybe you've been living under a rock for awhile...oil's at $ 40 and heading to $ 30 a barrel. Those offshore workers that still have jobs aren't buying many condos at the moment.

And for Americans, the exchange rate is the best in a decade.

Yeah the rest of us could use an Obama.

[Naam]

I have looked at some discounted places. Like some have said up to 50%.

But there is always some issue. Poor location or a major construction project nearby that will create noise for the next 2 years.

But my opinion is, why buy a place?

The rents are so cheap in Pattaya compared to my country for a nice ocean view in a quiet area.

I would never buy a place.

The only time it is a good idea to buy is if you are going to personally use it for at least 20-25 years, other than that it is silly.

when it concerns money most silly statements are from people who play in specific leagues, e.g. the "ATM fees were raised again by 20 Baht! " league.

[Jingthing]

I remember when I was buying here I was about to buy another condo at asking price but asked the seller to lower the cost about 2 percent to cover a repair I thought was needed, but he didn't. He didn't agree. Markets change. Just trying to figure out how bad the current market is for sellers. Not sure I'll know unless/until I try to sell!

[bkk6060]

I have looked at some discounted places. Like some have said up to 50%.

But there is always some issue. Poor location or a major construction project nearby that will create noise for the next 2 years.

But my opinion is, why buy a place?

The rents are so cheap in Pattaya compared to my country for a nice ocean view in a quiet area.

I would never buy a place.

To say rents in Pattaya are cheap is subjective at the least.

Yes they are much cheaper than in your home country, but you also get much less, and compared to the value of the property they are expensive.

In the past years, currently much less so, it was easy to get a +10% annual return on a condo in Pattaya.

I've never heard about 10% annual returns on a condo in my home country.

You know Southern California/Orange County?

Maybe not a 10% return, but rents are going up here about 7% each year where I live. I decent one bedroom is $1800 a month.

Ocean View? HAHAHA. In a decent place which is pretty small plan on a minimum of $3,000 dollars+ a month.

You can work the numbers but I do not think the appreciation is much in Thailand. With the over building, I actually see a big crash coming.

Let's say you pay $100,000 for a decent place with an ocean view in Thailand. If you know what you are doing it may be better to put that to work in another investment and I bet over a 10 year period you can make much more money.

But, to each their own. I would rather keep my cash, invest it else where, rent, and have the flexibility to go if I want, without the commitment of owning.

[TheCruncher]

I have looked at some discounted places. Like some have said up to 50%.

But there is always some issue. Poor location or a major construction project nearby that will create noise for the next 2 years.

But my opinion is, why buy a place?

The rents are so cheap in Pattaya compared to my country for a nice ocean view in a quiet area.

I would never buy a place.

To say rents in Pattaya are cheap is subjective at the least.

Yes they are much cheaper than in your home country, but you also get much less, and compared to the value of the property they are expensive.

In the past years, currently much less so, it was easy to get a +10% annual return on a condo in Pattaya.

I've never heard about 10% annual returns on a condo in my home country.

You know Southern California/Orange County?

Maybe not a 10% return, but rents are going up here about 7% each year where I live. I decent one bedroom is $1800 a month.

Ocean View? HAHAHA. In a decent place which is pretty small plan on a minimum of $3,000 dollars+ a month.

You can work the numbers but I do not think the appreciation is much in Thailand. With the over building, I actually see a big crash coming.

Let's say you pay $100,000 for a decent place with an ocean view in Thailand. If you know what you are doing it may be better to put that to work in another investment and I bet over a 10 year period you can make much more money.

But, to each their own. I would rather keep my cash, invest it else where, rent, and have the flexibility to go if I want, without the commitment of owning.

In a decent place which is pretty small plan on a minimum of $3,000 dollars+ a month.

And how much is that decent place to purchase in that location, how much are the annual property and other taxes on that decent place, and how much of the 3000$ actually is left for the landlord?

[Jingthing]

If I do sell I would have held the place for over 10 years and lived in it, so that was something I got out of it even with a loss sale. Of course not being able to sell at all or a 50 percent loss would be pretty atrocious.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Jingthing

[OMGImInPattaya]

Just be thankful for Obama...if Mr. Fix It or his brother were still in office, the dollar would be at 25 to 1, not 38, and that's where your real loss would be.

[KittenKong]

If I do sell I would have held the place for over 10 years and lived in it, so that was something I got out of it even with a loss sale. Of course not being able to sell at all or a 50 percent loss would be pretty atrocious.

The asking price of units in your building has not increased in 10 years?

A 50% discount on a 100% mark-up is not a loss.

[Jingthing]

If I do sell I would have held the place for over 10 years and lived in it, so that was something I got out of it even with a loss sale. Of course not being able to sell at all or a 50 percent loss would be pretty atrocious.

The asking price of units in your building has not increased in 10 years?

A 50% discount on a 100% mark-up is not a loss.

It has but I'm talking about what I might be able to reasonably get if trying to sell in months rather than years.

[KittenKong]

May be Naam's friends are not the kind that are on a budget, and he just wanted to be polite in his answer.

Naam is hardly polite, nor does he know very much about condos. There is an earlier thread about these condo purchases made by his friends in which it is made clear that he knows few buildings and had to rely on agents and lawyers to pre-select the units and handle the sale. Indeed he was asking for advice about the situation from other board members. The likelihood of getting a good deal in such circumstances here is zero as far as I can see, and most people who live in the real world would know this. This probably helps explain why these buyers paid so much.

Some would say that "we have no budget and dont care about the price" is just one skewed interpretation of "we had no idea of the value of the item and just paid blindly". Both seem equally stupid to me, especially when one is buying a mass-market item like a Pattaya condo of which there are thousands available, and especially in a country where many "professionals" involved in real estate and law are just incompetent crooks. Had they been talking about buying a unique artwork the situation might be different, but Pattaya condos are rarely that.

Naam's comment ("I could tell you but I'm not going to because you wouldn't understand it") reads like a 5-year-old's school-yard taunt to me, and so I treat it with the contempt it richly deserves.

[KittenKong]

If I do sell I would have held the place for over 10 years and lived in it, so that was something I got out of it even with a loss sale. Of course not being able to sell at all or a 50 percent loss would be pretty atrocious.

The asking price of units in your building has not increased in 10 years?

A 50% discount on a 100% mark-up is not a loss.

It has but I'm talking about what I might be able to reasonably get if trying to sell in months rather than years.

Well, if the asking price has increased from the price you paid (which presumably was no more than the asking price at the time) then you have scope to drop your asking price now without making a loss (not allowing for inflation, exchange rates etc).

That doesnt sound bad to me.

If I put my condo up for sale today I would probably have to advertise it at 30% less than what I paid for it in order to sell it promptly, but I knew that when I bought it. In fact in my own mind I wrote off the entire purchase the day I made it as I have little faith in Thai property (little faith in Thailand/Thais in general for that matter). Anything I get back from it in the future will be a bonus as far as I'm concerned. If my condo purchase here represented a large part of my net worth I would never have bought it under any circumstances. But it doesnt so that's fine.

[snowbak]

they dont sell for years because the sellers ask stupids prices for them thinking they will get it. especially Thai's doing it

[Naam]

May be Naam's friends are not the kind that are on a budget, and he just wanted to be polite in his answer.

Naam is hardly polite, nor does he know very much about condos. There is an earlier thread about these condo purchases made by his friends in which it is made clear that he knows few buildings and had to rely on agents and lawyers to pre-select the units and handle the sale. Indeed he was asking for advice about the situation from other board members. The likelihood of getting a good deal in such circumstances here is zero as far as I can see, and most people who live in the real world would know this. This probably helps explain why these buyers paid so much.

Some would say that "we have no budget and dont care about the price" is just one skewed interpretation of "we had no idea of the value of the item and just paid blindly". Both seem equally stupid to me, especially when one is buying a mass-market item like a Pattaya condo of which there are thousands available, and especially in a country where many "professionals" involved in real estate and law are just incompetent crooks. Had they been talking about buying a unique artwork the situation might be different, but Pattaya condos are rarely that.

Naam's comment ("I could tell you but I'm not going to because you wouldn't understand it") reads like a 5-year-old's school-yard taunt to me, and so I treat it with the contempt it richly deserves.

you sound bitter. did they increase the ATM fees again?

[Jingthing]

they dont sell for years because the sellers ask stupids prices for them thinking they will get it. especially Thai's doing it

Yes there are definitely sellers who aren't serious about selling.

[KittenKong]

you sound bitter.

Really? That's strange as I have nothing to feel bitter about.

did they increase the ATM fees again?

Sorry, I have no idea. None of my Thai banks charge for ATM withdrawals and I keep a float of one or two years' spending money here so as not to have to make forex transfers except at times that suit me.

I do have one UK card that applies no extra exchange rate weighting and in theory has no cash withdrawal fee at all (if you make the withdrawal inside the bank rather than from an ATM) but I have never actually used it here apart from one test withdrawal several years ago. I do use it for on-line purchases, subscriptions, air tickets etc. as I dont like the lack of consumer protection offered by cards from Thai banks.

[Rimmer]

A post that has an altered members name has been removed

[smedly]

50 percent seems like a last resort.

If they bought at an inflated price of say 25% then it isn't really, property has been inflated in Pattaya for as long as I can remember, the market is driven by scrupulous realaters who inflate, you go to a building were all the units are in roughly the same price range and think that is the market price, the real price should be based on the cost to build to an extent but only those in the know will be aware of that cost, property is a dirty false over inflated market here, although in saying that if you buy something and are happy well it doesn't really matter so much unless you attempt to sell, most buyers are coming here buying based on their home markets in the west. People posting here are either already owners or are in the business they are obviously going to talk to the market up

[Jingthing]

Real estate prices aren't really only about cost of building. That's only one factor. There is so much more to it. What it's worth is what someone is willing to pay. Unfortunately the market here is very disorganized compared to the west so it's not so easy to figure out what people might be willing to pay. I suppose depending on how you do in this kind of market, that could be a good or a bad thing. In other words if you score a bargain or get someone to "overpay" because the market not transparent, you will like that.

Back to figuring out rough values, what about RENTAL ratios in this market? So if you can figure out what your unit could RENT for, what multiplier to use to get a market value for sale?

Edited January 4, 2016 by Jingthing

[KittenKong]

Back to figuring out rough values, what about RENTAL ratios in this market? So if you can figure out what your unit could RENT for, what multiplier to use to get a market value for sale?

It's the same problem with rentals. Look at two similar units and one may be on offer for 30,000B/month and the other for 20,000B/month. And who is to say that both wouldn't accept 15,000B or less from the right tenant. So which price do you use to calculate your purchase price? My own condo was advertised at 20,000B/month (cheap! said the agent) but my offer of 132,000B/year was accepted for two years. But I knew people in the same building who were paying more for units that were much smaller and nowhere near as nice as mine.

Advertised rental and sale prices here are all just nonsense really, which is no surprise in such an illiquid market with such oversupply.

[Naam]

the know-it-all eggsburts have ruled JT! there seems to be no way out. whether it's selling or letting the minus 50% Damocles sword applies to both. you are therefore doomed and sentenced to stay in Thailand till they carry you out feet first except...

...if goddess Fortuna smiles on you and stupid people, like some of my friends, accept your asking price or perhaps a little less