Obama's move on guns may have only modest effect on violence

[webfact]

Obama's move on guns may have only modest effect on violence
By RYAN J. FOLEY and ERIC TUCKER

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama's move to tighten controls on guns could curb the unregulated buying and selling of weapons over the Internet and at gun shows. But the overall effect on violence in the U.S. could prove to be modest.

"It's not ever going to be difficult to get a firearm, just like it's not ever going to be difficult to get illegal drugs," said James Jacobs, a New York University law school professor. "What makes us think that we can now create a regime that will make guns hard to obtain for someone who wants to obtain them?"

The president used his executive authority Tuesday to clarify that anyone "in the business" of selling firearms must obtain a federal license and conduct background checks on prospective buyers, regardless of where the sales take place.

Currently, many private sellers online and at gun shows do not bother to get licenses, and weapons sales over the Internet have become a booming business.

The White House and others can't say how many transactions the step will block or how much bloodshed it may prevent.

But the new controls probably wouldn't have prevented many of the grisly mass shootings around the country that have led to demands for tighter gun laws, and may affect only a tiny fraction of the nation's 30,000 annual gun deaths.

Studies in the last decade have shown that criminals are more likely to get guns directly from friends or other social connections than at gun shows or flea markets.

The president's action "has potential impact — the degree or the type, it's hard to predict," said University of Pennsylvania professor Susan Sorenson, who studies violence prevention. "And it's really important to acknowledge that we can't just have one change and expect that to change things wildly."

The president also called for the hiring of more than 230 additional examiners and other staff to process the millions of background checks received annually.

Yet even with added manpower, there's no way to completely eliminate human error like the clerical mistake that allowed Dylann Roof, the young man charged in the Charleston, South Carolina, church massacre, to buy a weapon even though he should have been disqualified because of a drug arrest.

The White House did not set a threshold for the number of guns someone has to sell to be covered by the licensing and background check requirement. But it warned that people can be charged with a federal crime punishable by up to five years in prison for selling as few as two firearms when there is evidence they are running a business, such as selling weapons in their original packaging and for a profit.

Theresa O'Rourke of Downers Grove, Illinois, said she hopes Obama's action will deter illegal transactions that have deadly consequences. Her best friend, 36-year-old Jitka Vesel, was killed in 2011 by a stalker who had illegally purchased a gun from a seller he met through Armslist.com, an online gun site. The seller was sentenced to prison after pleading guilty to an illegal sale.

"People do it now because it's easy," O'Rourke said. "But if we say upfront that if you break the law and you are going to go to prison, most people are going to take a step back and say, 'You know what? It's not worth it.'"

She and other gun control advocates said too many individuals make a living selling guns without obtaining the $150 license and following requirements to conduct background checks, keep detailed sales records and face federal inspections.

Private sales — often carried out in person after Internet advertisements connect sellers and buyers — can be exploited by convicted felons, domestic abusers and others who cannot pass a background check, critics say.

Private sales have increasingly gone online over the last decade, but precise data is hard to pin down. GunBroker.com, which calls itself the world's largest online auction site for firearms and accessories, says it has grown every year since 1999. It now boasts 750,000 active listings on any given day. Armslist claims 7 million site visits per month.

One in 20 guns advertised through Armslist last year was linked to an unlicensed seller who had listed at least 25 guns, according to recent research published by Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun control group backed by former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. A 2013 investigation by that group's predecessor, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, found that more than 3 percent of potential buyers on Armslist had criminal records that would bar them from owning firearms.

Armslist, which was founded after Craigslist banned gun ads in 2007, says in a disclaimer on its website that it doesn't get involved in transactions and that buyers and sellers must follow all state and federal gun laws. Still, guns sold through ads on the site have been linked to some fatal shootings.

A lawsuit filed in October alleges that an abusive husband purchased a handgun through an Armslist ad and used it to kill his wife and two other women at a salon in suburban Milwaukee in 2012. The man, Radcliffe Haughton, was able to buy the gun even though a judge had issued a restraining order days earlier that should have made him ineligible. He went online to say he was "looking to buy ASAP," and made the purchase in the parking lot of a McDonald's, the lawsuit says.

Armslist owner Jonathan Gibbon called Obama's moves "well-meaning but ultimately ineffective." He said many private sellers want to conduct background checks but are discouraged by a "costly and burdensome" system that requires them to go to licensed dealers and pay fees.

"Further scrutiny of law-abiding people will not stop criminals," he said.

Everytown president John Feinblatt called the clarification a welcome if modest step.

"It puts them on notice and, if accompanied with aggressive enforcement, has the potential to narrow the number of unlicensed dealers who are selling without background checks," he said. "But even so, millions of guns will be sold online without background checks unless Congress or states pass universal background checks, as 18 states have done on their own."

The Obama administration appeared determined to tamp down expectations, with Obama saying he realizes his actions won't stop all gun violence.

"Obviously the president is not able to take strong measures because that's going to require Congress to act," said Philip Cook, a Duke University professor. "But if he is able to disrupt a relative handful of sales and save a handful of lives, that may well be worthwhile."

He added: "What we're looking at here is a low-cost intervention with the possibility of some payoff."
___

Foley reported from Iowa City.


-- (c) Associated Press 2016-01-06

[DavisH]

I would not expect to see much impact on crime for 1, 2, or even 10 years. And it's not like they even plan to ban guns at all. Unless the number of guns in circulation drops drastically, I would not expect to see any decrease in gun related crime. Note I'm far from pro-gun. Quite the opposite actually. And the situation is not comparable to some countries like Australia, that have both quite a different view on gun ownership but also socio-economic conditions are different.

[ezzra]

A day late and a dollar short, where was he years ago, and his tears are the showman tears, the crocodile tears, there are aprox 300 million fire arms in the US, you try to take any of it from the gun crazed society of the US.....

[beechguy]

Of course it would only have a modest effect, he is going after the wrong people. Criminals don't do background checks at the crack house, or standing at the trunk of a car.

[NeverSure]

The OP: "Currently, many private sellers online and at gun shows do not bother to get licenses, and weapons sales over the Internet have become a booming business."

It has long been a federal felony to sell weapons over the internet by people who aren't licensed dealers. Private citizens can't sell guns across state lines to other citizens in any way. They have to go through a dealer which requires a background check. These things are already the law. Most "gun show loopholes" have been closed. I can't sell a gun to a private party in my state by any means without going through a dealer and that means a criminal background check and a waiting period.

I am unable to determine what would change with Obama's new bright ideas.

Hint, Obama: Criminals by definition won't pay any attention to your new laws.

Cheers.

[oneday]

This is not an easy issue by a long shot.

For the most part I'm a gun control advocate, but I certainly understand the appeal of "everyone" having guns. One would tend to think terrorists are not going to pick Texas to attack knowing anyone could have a gun. On the other hand, letting anyone have a gun without training or even certain types of mentally unstable people with training is asking for innocent people to be killed by untrained shooters. When everyone starts pulling out guns who is to know who the bad guys are and the good guys. I could easily see good guys shooting good guys.

The NRA wants to fight for the right for everyone to have guns, but they have no solutions to any of these probable problems.

[mamypoko]

Tears over the frustration of needless death...who does this guy think he is,,,human?

[Pinot]

The OP: "Currently, many private sellers online and at gun shows do not bother to get licenses, and weapons sales over the Internet have become a booming business."

It has long been a federal felony to sell weapons over the internet by people who aren't licensed dealers. Private citizens can't sell guns across state lines to other citizens in any way. They have to go through a dealer which requires a background check. These things are already the law. Most "gun show loopholes" have been closed. I can't sell a gun to a private party in my state by any means without going through a dealer and that means a criminal background check and a waiting period.

I am unable to determine what would change with Obama's new bright ideas.

Hint, Obama: Criminals by definition won't pay any attention to your new laws.

Cheers.

Hint: If these changes save one child's life, I'm all in. 181

217 people have been killed by guns since the first of the year.

Cheers

[Bill Miller]

These are some of the points.
Nobody is coming to take your guns. That is the rhetoric of the less intellectually gifted of the NRA groupies.
The President does not expect to eliminate all gun violence. As posted earlier, if the life of one child is saved it is worth the

inconvenience.
"I can't sell a gun to a private party in my state by any means without going through a dealer ..." Horseshit. It happens ALL OF THE TIME. Flea markets, garage sales, neighbors. You perhaps cannot do it legally, but do not say that you cannot do it. Great consequences need to be attached to the act to discourage it.
The same with the lame "only criminals..." etc. From FBI tables for 2010.... "Felony circumstances (rape, robbery, burglary, etc.) accounted for 23.1 percent of murders." That means that 76.9 % were not necessarily committed by criminals in the course of a crime. There is ambiguity because an awful lot of the data is reported with a ridiculous percentage of "unknown".
Not completely negating your remarks, but pointing out that they are not absolutes, and that some improvement can and should be made. My last gun purchase was through a licensed dealer, and yeah, I had to wait for a few days for the background check. If someone cannot wait I must question their reason for purchasing a firearm

[Nomyai]

A day late and a dollar short, where was he years ago, and his tears are the showman tears, the crocodile tears, there are aprox 300 million fire arms in the US, you try to take any of it from the gun crazed society of the US.....

Not about gun control. He wants to control your every move. He wishes he were Kim UN JONG...or whatever................hahaha.

Obamacare not about healthcare.

See a pattern.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

modest is still better than nothing

[IAMHERE]

So I gift a gun to my son in law, he gives it to his sister with the abusive husband, the abusive husband uses it to kill a burglar 10 years from now and I"ll end up in prison?

[Grouse]

For goodness sake, it's a step in the right direction.

[wabothai]

Start prohibiting real bullits and issue rubber bullits.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

One would tend to think terrorists are not going to pick Texas to attack knowing anyone could have a gun.

<snip>

Did someone mention Texas?:

[hawker9000]

Why not just go whole hog, Mr O? Just grow a pair and issue one of your "executive orders" and order the wholesale confiscation of all guns. We all know that's the actual agenda. So DO IT!! Watch what happens.

PS - It's not so much about background checks per se. But only a certifiable knobhead fails to grasp that these checks create a database that would come in very handy when confiscation becomes the order of the day. It's called "incrementalism", and dems and gun control nazis are acknowledged masters of the art.

Edited January 6, 2016 by hawker9000

[dunroaming]

The last time Obama tried to put in stricter controls on gun purchasers sales rocketed according to the gun club. Here's a thought. Why would all the responsible citizens suddenly go out and buy guns in such a panic. If they are upright citizens then they need to fear nothing from tighter controls. The people rushing to buy guns therefore are the people that know that under new regulations they would'nt be eligible.. Bet the same thing happens this time. Will they ever learn? Not likely

[beechguy]

The last time Obama tried to put in stricter controls on gun purchasers sales rocketed according to the gun club. Here's a thought. Why would all the responsible citizens suddenly go out and buy guns in such a panic. If they are upright citizens then they need to fear nothing from tighter controls. The people rushing to buy guns therefore are the people that know that under new regulations they would'nt be eligible.. Bet the same thing happens this time. Will they ever learn? Not likely

Wrong, they are no significant increases in regulations, just propaganda by a Lame Duck President trying to salvage his legacy. The people rushing out to purchase weapons can pass the background checks just fine. They are probably keeping in mind, the No Fly List, IRS, and other agencies that require no due process, that cause problems for law abiding citizens.