Handle with care: Hospital care for foreigners without travel insurance

[tonray]

Damn right a human right! As far as taxes, I paid into Medicare since it introduced and yet I cannot use anywhere except the US where the real death panels are the insurance companies. Want to try to explain why my Medicare is not good one foot outside the states? I can make a pretty good guess, it would cost the hospitals, doctors, big pharma, etc. big money because the states has the highest medical costs in the developed world but is way down on the list of care. Yea, a human right to care, not just for the rich. There should not be "for profit" medical care.

Medicare is funded by taxpayers. Why should taxpayer money be spend to financially benefit foreign hospitals and doctors for those rich tourists that travel internationally?

Medicare is funded by taxpayers and being abused and given to illegal border jumpers who haven't even paid into the system. If one has paid all their life into the fund why can't we use it wherever we are ? Nothing about being a rich tourist traveling overseas rich or poor if you paid into the fund should get care.

The reason is simply logistics. There would be no way to administer it and prevent fraudulent claims. Fraud is a major problem in the US system with domestic providers, how could you possibly add foreign providers to the mix and hope to keep the system afloat ?

The sad facts are you are only guaranteed care to a certain degree if you reside in your home country. You chose to live abroad it was not a forced decision. If you want the perks of living as a freewheeling expat traveler then you need to accept the limitations too.

[Balance]

<snip>

The Expat problem is both simpler and more difficult to solve. The simple part is that Thailand can simply offer insurance to resident aliens along the line of the existing Gold Card for Civil Servants. Direct deposit from a bank could pay for it, as I now pay for my AIA policy. The more difficult part is that the Government is the entitiy that has to do it and that is the problematic part given the byzantine-like bureaucracy and concomitant politics. Perhaps Section 44 could help?

The problem is that there would be a huge anti selection problem. With the general expat population being relatively old the premium would have to be relatively high to be cost effective. And high premiums mean commercial institutions will be able to offer lower premiums to the good risks, even further increasing the required premium income for the government insurance to be cost effective.

The only solution would be a compulsory insurance, but there are many practical problems with that.

So I don't see something like this happening in the near future.

I would agree if only the old expats were in the pool. But that does not have to be the case as the choice exists to simply include them in the civil servant pool. The relatively small number of older expats would have a very small statistical impact on the make-up of pool and presumably the cost of care. There were some statistics published a couple of years ago on the number in each of the government pools and the total cost for each. Doing the arithmetic yielded a cost for the civil servant pool, which has the highest level of benefits) was about 30,000 Bht per year, or 2,500 per month. That is about 45% less than the $107 a month I pay for my U.S. Medicare Part B coverage, in other words affordable for all but those trying to live here on 10,000 Bhat a month.

[LeungKen]

Post removed.

This thread is not about the USA.

Please keep it Phuket related or the thread will be moved to Thailand general.topics.

[Straight8]

Insurance is at the heart of the issue here.

To me a foreigner who has problems getting insurance here is not automatically entitled to free medical treatment.

Your opinion is duly noted ...

And .. you are wrong.

The issue here is actually the care provided Foreigners in the Kingdom who do not have insurance.

Sort of wondering what your problem is ... willing to bet a tidy sum you are not Thai.

Sounds like he is not, but wished he were!!

[Liquorice]

Preview of two Health cards.

The first is the card you should receive from a government hospital if you do indeed register.

You will be issued an ID medical number, linked to your details on their database.

If registered you'll receive the same treatment at the same costs as a Thai.

The second card is the old 'Health Card for Foreigners' scheme, that many expats joined before it was withdrawn by the Administration because it was primarily introduced for Lao, Myanmar and Cambodian workers, but wrongly offered to expats.

Why the cards were printed in English and the scheme aptly named 'Health card for Foreigners' if it was not intended for 'all' foreigners leaves one to wonder, but I digress, but suggest a similar scheme could be adopted for expats by the Thai government.

The old fee of 2,800 baht (?) was obviously inadequate, but maybe a more realistic fee of 10,000 - 20,000 baht pa, would be affordable for the Pensioners and advantageous to hospital funding.

[jpinx]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

You want some other person to make you a card to put in your passport or do you think you should make your own card ?

Maybe I should have spelt it out. What is needed is an official Tha card which the ambulance guys will pay attention to and take you to the cheaper option for care, not to the one that gives them the biggest kick-back.

Another poster has come up with the solution -- go and register at the hospital of your choice and carry their card with you at all times.

[tonray]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

You want some other person to make you a card to put in your passport or do you think you should make your own card ?

Maybe I should have spelt it out. What is needed is an official Tha card which the ambulance guys will pay attention to and take you to the cheaper option for care, not to the one that gives them the biggest kick-back.

Another poster has come up with the solution -- go and register at the hospital of your choice and carry their card with you at all times.

If that is the solution it might be a good idea to wear it on a lanyard around your neck, much like an employee or student ID so they see it right away.

[Kwasaki]

You claim to have health insurance at 68, but what does it cover, what is excluded and what was the premium?

Frankly in short l didn't think l could get insurance at my age but my wife proved me wrong.

Before getting cover l went down with the sever form of dengue fever and it cost us 75,000 + baht, l won't be covered for that again l believe.

l have Eng copy of the plan with www.thailife.com...... my wife arranged it and l carry the blue card with me. what l know is covers for care costs in Gov hospital for 150 days up to 852,000. there is a list.

It's no claim it is fact and the annual cost is 32,000. and for me it's better than no cover at all.

Best for those interested to contact them.

A look at their website seems to indicate that they do life insurance with some medicare "add-ons" --- or am I missing something?

No your right, it is a life insurance linked to medical cover, they will come to your house and explain.

My wife thinks it expensive but is happy with the cover, l am also registered with Sukhothai Gov hospital and have a card but can go to other hospitals in Thailand if it is required.

[jpinx]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

You want some other person to make you a card to put in your passport or do you think you should make your own card ?

Maybe I should have spelt it out. What is needed is an official Tha card which the ambulance guys will pay attention to and take you to the cheaper option for care, not to the one that gives them the biggest kick-back.

Another poster has come up with the solution -- go and register at the hospital of your choice and carry their card with you at all times.

If that is the solution it might be a good idea to wear it on a lanyard around your neck, much like an employee or student ID so they see it right away.

I jokingly suggested a tattoo on your forehead

[jpinx]

You claim to have health insurance at 68, but what does it cover, what is excluded and what was the premium?

Frankly in short l didn't think l could get insurance at my age but my wife proved me wrong.

Before getting cover l went down with the sever form of dengue fever and it cost us 75,000 + baht, l won't be covered for that again l believe.

l have Eng copy of the plan with www.thailife.com...... my wife arranged it and l carry the blue card with me. what l know is covers for care costs in Gov hospital for 150 days up to 852,000. there is a list.

It's no claim it is fact and the annual cost is 32,000. and for me it's better than no cover at all.

Best for those interested to contact them.

A look at their website seems to indicate that they do life insurance with some medicare "add-ons" --- or am I missing something?

No your right, it is a life insurance linked to medical cover, they will come to your house and explain.

My wife thinks it expensive but is happy with the cover, l am also registered with Sukhothai Gov hospital and have a card but can go to other hospitals in Thailand if it is required.

There's no cost indicators on the website, so it's hard to know the value, but it's a neat combo insurance package for some folks.

[thaiduncankk]

You claim to have health insurance at 68, but what does it cover, what is excluded and what was the premium?

Frankly in short l didn't think l could get insurance at my age but my wife proved me wrong.

Before getting cover l went down with the sever form of dengue fever and it cost us 75,000 + baht, l won't be covered for that again l believe.

l have Eng copy of the plan with www.thailife.com...... my wife arranged it and l carry the blue card with me. what l know is covers for care costs in Gov hospital for 150 days up to 852,000. there is a list.

It's no claim it is fact and the annual cost is 32,000. and for me it's better than no cover at all.

Best for those interested to contact them.

A look at their website seems to indicate that they do life insurance with some medicare "add-ons" --- or am I missing something?

No your right, it is a life insurance linked to medical cover, they will come to your house and explain.

My wife thinks it expensive but is happy with the cover, l am also registered with Sukhothai Gov hospital and have a card but can go to other hospitals in Thailand if it is required.

Of course she is happy with the cover, should you pass away she will get a lump sum payout.

I, however, have no dependants so I have no wish to take out any life insurance.

To find a company willing to offer a policy without life insurance is virtually impossible.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Get a wife who's not a bargirl and you'll have a full medical coverage through her employer....for free. I know I will.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic rant has been removed.

[madpat]

Best way is for the Thais to disallow people without insurance cover, funny how folk can afford to fly here get lodgings and enjoy the cheap cost of living but are to fringing tight to get insurance

[pbonline]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

I hade insurance but when they rised the premium by 75% just coz I got 50 years old I told the insurance company to &lt;deleted&gt; off.

I now have a fresh atm reciept in my wallet to show I have money.

50 years old and in perfect health and they tought I would pay 70.000 baht/year for OB insurance, no way.

[impulse]

If that is the solution it might be a good idea to wear it on a lanyard around your neck, much like an employee or student ID so they see it right away.

I'd predict that as being about as effective as wearing a lanyard around your neck that says "I don't want to visit a gem shop", or "please don't steal my wallet".

You're going where they pay the best bounty to the ambulance guys.

[tonray]

If that is the solution it might be a good idea to wear it on a lanyard around your neck, much like an employee or student ID so they see it right away.

I'd predict that as being about as effective as wearing a lanyard around your neck that says "I don't want to visit a gem shop", or "please don't steal my wallet".

You're going where they pay the best bounty to the ambulance guys.

Never had my wallet stolen or been taken to a Gem shop....perhaps you need to spend some time away from 'tourist' Thailand

[impulse]

If that is the solution it might be a good idea to wear it on a lanyard around your neck, much like an employee or student ID so they see it right away.

I'd predict that as being about as effective as wearing a lanyard around your neck that says "I don't want to visit a gem shop", or "please don't steal my wallet".

You're going where they pay the best bounty to the ambulance guys.

Never had my wallet stolen or been taken to a Gem shop....perhaps you need to spend some time away from 'tourist' Thailand

Neither have I. But then, I've never been unconscious and in need of medical attention- at the mercy of the infamous ambulance drivers. Google them for some insights into how they work.

10:1 odds say you're going where they pay the highest bounty. Even if it is tattooed on your forehead (as someone else suggested in jest.)

[thaiduncankk]

Get a wife who's not a bargirl and you'll have a full medical coverage through her employer....for free. I know I will.

So, nothing in common, but a way to cheap insurance.

Typical Canadian, but from where you came, I can understand it.

[Kwasaki]

Before getting cover l went down with the sever form of dengue fever and it cost us 75,000 + baht, l won't be covered for that again l believe.

l have Eng copy of the plan with www.thailife.com...... my wife arranged it and l carry the blue card with me. what l know is covers for care costs in Gov hospital for 150 days up to 852,000. there is a list.

It's no claim it is fact and the annual cost is 32,000. and for me it's better than no cover at all.

Best for those interested to contact them.

A look at their website seems to indicate that they do life insurance with some medicare "add-ons" --- or am I missing something?

No your right, it is a life insurance linked to medical cover, they will come to your house and explain.

My wife thinks it expensive but is happy with the cover, l am also registered with Sukhothai Gov hospital and have a card but can go to other hospitals in Thailand if it is required.

Of course she is happy with the cover, should you pass away she will get a lump sum payout.

I, however, have no dependants so I have no wish to take out any life insurance.

To find a company willing to offer a policy without life insurance is virtually impossible.

Well if l was totally single and wanted medical cover because l was not financially able to cover any future high hospital treatment l would will the life insurance pay out to my local Thai childrens orphanage along with my banked retirement visa dosh.

[jpinx]

Well if l was totally single and wanted medical cover because l was not financially able to cover any future high hospital treatment l would will the life insurance pay out to my local Thai childrens orphanage along with my banked retirement visa dosh.

Not sure if Thai insurance law allows it, but you could just make whoever you want to be the beneficiary. Most insurance companies will allow that in the west, not sure about here. I did not get a quote, but I think the combo insurance on a 70 year old will be a tad expensive

[jpinx]

If that is the solution it might be a good idea to wear it on a lanyard around your neck, much like an employee or student ID so they see it right away.

I'd predict that as being about as effective as wearing a lanyard around your neck that says "I don't want to visit a gem shop", or "please don't steal my wallet".

You're going where they pay the best bounty to the ambulance guys.

Never had my wallet stolen or been taken to a Gem shop....perhaps you need to spend some time away from 'tourist' Thailand

Neither have I. But then, I've never been unconscious and in need of medical attention- at the mercy of the infamous ambulance drivers. Google them for some insights into how they work.

10:1 odds say you're going where they pay the highest bounty. Even if it is tattooed on your forehead (as someone else suggested in jest.)

.... which point takes us neatly back to my original post - we need an "Official" card that the ambulance drivers and hospitals can not ignore. Registering with the hospital of your choice and carrying their card might do the trick, but the ambulance mafia rank away down there with jetskis If I'm conscious and mobile, I'd rather pay a taxi, even something extra if I bleed on his seats.

[F4UCorsair]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

In which case they should hold sufficient funds to cover a worst case scenario, perhaps $100k? The alternative is to not live in Thailand.

[tonray]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

In which case they should hold sufficient funds to cover a worst case scenario, perhaps $100k? The alternative is to not live in Thailand.

100K a little low...maybe 2 million baht to start

[jpinx]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

In which case they should hold sufficient funds to cover a worst case scenario, perhaps $100k? The alternative is to not live in Thailand.

All answered before - if one bothers to read this thread,,,,

[stevenl]

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

In which case they should hold sufficient funds to cover a worst case scenario, perhaps $100k? The alternative is to not live in Thailand.

100K a little low...maybe 2 million baht to start

$100K would be more than your 2 million Baht (presuming he is talking US).

[tonray]

100K would be more than your 2 million Baht (presuming he is talking US).

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

In which case they should hold sufficient funds to cover a worst case scenario, perhaps $100k? The alternative is to not live in Thailand.

100K a little low...maybe 2 million baht to start

With a mix of expats here ranging from US to UK to Euro zone to Aussies....why talk in dollars when only one group thinks in those terms ? Perhaps so...but people should refer to the only common currency we have here...the baht.

[F4UCorsair]

Can we have a card to put in our passports saying that in the event of accident we want government ambulance and government hospital -- before one of the privateers gets hold of us... ?)

Why not man up and get some insurance ?

Let's not start that very old thread again. Insurance is not available for many older folks staying long-term.

Insurance is at the heart of the issue here.

To me a foreigner who has problems getting insurance here is not automatically entitled to free medical treatment.

Is that your call to make?

It's his opinion, not a 'call' having any authority.

It's my belief that if you don't hold Thai citizenship, and have no means of paying, i.e., no health insurance or cash, the extent of free treatment should be to keep you alive and contact your embassy to arrange repatriation.

Please accept responsibility for your own health. There is NOTHING more important.

[jpinx]

It's his opinion, not a 'call' having any authority.

It's my belief that if you don't hold Thai citizenship, and have no means of paying, i.e., no health insurance or cash, the extent of free treatment should be to keep you alive and contact your embassy to arrange repatriation.

Please accept responsibility for your own health. There is NOTHING more important.

Wrong -- the extent of free care given should be the same as everyone else can get....

BTW - -the thread is about expats and foreigners generally -- let's not confuse it by bringing the locals into the equation

Edited January 11, 2016 by jpinx

[Si Thea01]

It's his opinion, not a 'call' having any authority.

It's my belief that if you don't hold Thai citizenship, and have no means of paying, i.e., no health insurance or cash, the extent of free treatment should be to keep you alive and contact your embassy to arrange repatriation.

Please accept responsibility for your own health. There is NOTHING more important.

Wrong -- the extent of free care given should be the same as everyone else can get....

BTW - -the thread is about expats and foreigners generally -- let's not confuse it by bringing the locals into the equation

But the entitlement brigade will always want everything for nothing, this is their belief and it will never change.