British man found dead on Koh Tao

[Si Thea01]

I don't answer troll posts if that's any clearer, si thea

It's Si Thea01 by the way and I am certainly not a troll but it appears, according to you, that if one asks you legimate questions, which you avoid answering, makes one a troll. Are you prepared to back yourself and show me where I flamed or went off topic when I sought answers to your statement. And note, I never criticised nor rubbished your speculation. And please, have a nice day.

[jacky54]

Has there been any photo evidence of the 'barbered wire' he was meant to have cut his face on?

[glenmohr]

Luke Miller, Nick Pearson and David Miller all found with battered bodies in shallow water.

UK media outlets now headlining " Luke Miller was murdered"

I wonder why they think that?

It is all just coincidence.

Young British man has argument late at night in Thailand.

Falls off cliff which explains bruising,

Finds his own way, unaided, to shallow water, drowns.

Case closed, perfect.

Difference with Luke Miller is that he had to get passed hotel security to reach shallow water, but any injured Brit can do that, they are a resilient, with usually a very strong under jaw ( think W S Churchill), and a very stoic breed. Piece of cake.

[glenmohr]

Has there been any photo evidence of the 'barbered wire' he was meant to have cut his face on?

@ Jacky, Yes there is barbed wire at the point where the badly injured Luke was supposed to have launched himself into that pool.

However his close friends and travelling companions James and Nichola Gissing ( brother and sister) have returned to the safety of the UK and revealed:

They secretly photographed Luke's wounds which in their view were not consistent with barbed wire cuts and scratches. These photos have been supplied to British police. Sadly the UK police have had no historical worthwhile result in their dealings with the Royal Thai police in cases such as this one.

Nichola says " Our friend was mudered on Koh Tao Island Jan 8th. He was beaten and dumped into a swimming pool."

She realises that the British Foriegn Office will want her FB statements removed as they affect UK /Thai relations. However her statement is now out there and will be saved by thousands before the UK govt is able to act. The withdrawn statements of Laura Witheridge is every where on the net in spite of being withdrawn on advice. How brave are these women for taking on the Koh Tao mafia and their own govt at the same time. I am not Australian but based on the public efforts of Dr Jane Taupin, Ian Yarwood, LLB, Mark Trowell QC,and others indicate that the Aussies would have withdrawn their ambassador weeks ago and Luke Miller may have still been alive. Same with other countries, bi lateral ties do not trump life and death in many nations. Until the UK govt acts there will be more Brits dying needlessly on Koh Tao, unless night stops following day.

[NanLaew]

... Sadly the UK police have had no historical worthwhile result in their dealings with the Royal Thai police in cases such as this one. ...

In reality, the UK police have absolutely no legal premise to act on any events that take place in Thailand or anywhere else in the world; and vice versa.

Furthermore, the concept of the UK police "dealing" with the Royal Thai Police is not in their remit either.

[glenmohr]

... Sadly the UK police have had no historical worthwhile result in their dealings with the Royal Thai police in cases such as this one. ...

In reality, the UK police have absolutely no legal premise to act on any events that take place in Thailand or anywhere else in the world; and vice versa.

Furthermore, the concept of the UK police "dealing" with the Royal Thai Police is not in their remit either.

Very true Nan Laew.

However my point is that the world is not a dangerous place because of the evil men do.

The world is a dangerous place because too many people do not speak out.

My admiration is for those in UK who are now speaking out.

Please understand that there are police forces in the world who welcome the input of " foreign police " where that involvement makes a contribution to solving a crime.

I concede your point that that scenario does not exist between UK and Thailand and we are all the poorer for it. Many of us posters here are not British and cannot understand why the Australians, for example, are left to carry much of the attack on the badly broken Thai criminal justice system. Having worked closely with the Chinese police I can promise you that once the Koh Tao mafia start killing Chinese the perpetrators would be removed to China and dealt with in such a manner that would eliminate the chance of reoffending. Please note that I have observed that almost no Chinese are murdered in Thailand in spite of Chinese tourists often behaving badly . I promise you the govt of China would not stand for it and that goes for many nations including my own.

But your point is clearly put and perfectly correct in the case of UK.

[B166ER]

....China does a pretty good job of killing its own....

[glenmohr]

....China does a pretty good job of killing its own....

Correct Bigger, but they will not take any crap when people kill their citizens abroad.

[Krenjai]

Has there been any photo evidence of the 'barbered wire' he was meant to have cut his face on?

@ Jacky, Yes there is barbed wire at the point where the badly injured Luke was supposed to have launched himself into that pool.

However his close friends and travelling companions James and Nichola Gissing ( brother and sister) have returned to the safety of the UK and revealed:

They secretly photographed Luke's wounds which in their view were not consistent with barbed wire cuts and scratches. These photos have been supplied to British police. Sadly the UK police have had no historical worthwhile result in their dealings with the Royal Thai police in cases such as this one.

Nichola says " Our friend was mudered on Koh Tao Island Jan 8th. He was beaten and dumped into a swimming pool."

She realises that the British Foriegn Office will want her FB statements removed as they affect UK /Thai relations. However her statement is now out there and will be saved by thousands before the UK govt is able to act. The withdrawn statements of Laura Witheridge is every where on the net in spite of being withdrawn on advice. How brave are these women for taking on the Koh Tao mafia and their own govt at the same time. I am not Australian but based on the public efforts of Dr Jane Taupin, Ian Yarwood, LLB, Mark Trowell QC,and others indicate that the Aussies would have withdrawn their ambassador weeks ago and Luke Miller may have still been alive. Same with other countries, bi lateral ties do not trump life and death in many nations. Until the UK govt acts there will be more Brits dying needlessly on Koh Tao, unless night stops following day.

Even if the UK coroner concludes that the wounds in his face are not consistent with injuries from barbed wire or hitting the side of the pool the RTP will polish it away and will do nothing. As far as RTP are concerned this was an accident (even if they know it wasn't and I'll bet they do!!). Who in his right mind believes after seeing the pictures of that DJ booth with a springbord next to it somebody climbs up there after 05.30am (last search of the pool) and jumps off face down and this has not been seen nor heard by the security nor anybody else for that matter. I bet we will never see the CCTV of the Sunset Bar between 05.30-07.30. Does this pattern sounds familiar???

Edited January 22, 2016 by Krenjai

[JLCrab]

<snip> I am not Australian but based on the public efforts of Dr Jane Taupin, Ian Yarwood, LLB, Mark Trowell QC,and others indicate that the Aussies would have withdrawn their ambassador weeks ago and Luke Miller may have still been alive. Same with other countries, bi lateral ties do not trump life and death in many nations. Until the UK govt acts there will be more Brits dying needlessly on Koh Tao, unless night stops following day.

From CV Jane Taupin on LinkedIn:

Education

• Centre for Adult Education, Melbourne Certificate IV, Training and Assessment
  2007 – 2007
• University of Melbourne Master of Arts; Postgraduate Diploma, Criminology
  1989 – 1994
• University of Melbourne Bachelor of Science (Honours), Major in Chemistry
  1975 – 1979

[TheLobster]

as far as I understand the full transcript of the UK autopsy was provided to the Thai court but was ignored and never disclosed - you need to ask why the Thai court refused enter it into evidence.....why ?

Apologies for editing your quote smedly.

According to the trial report the UK Autopsy was ignored by the judges because it was presented by Andy Hall and he is not a forensic expert ! You couldn't make it up could you !

[evadgib]

....China does a pretty good job of killing its own....

Correct Bigger, but they will not take any crap when people kill their citizens abroad.

Much of what you have written would appear to be wishful thinking rather than factually correct; unless of course you are including acts of terror for which different rules entirely apply.

Edited January 22, 2016 by evadgib

[glenmohr]

....China does a pretty good job of killing its own....

Correct Bigger, but they will not take any crap when people kill their citizens abroad.

Much of what you have written would appear to be wishful thinking rather than factually correct; unless of course you are including acts of terror for which different rules entirely apply.

I believe Eva it is every govt's duty to look after its own no matter where they happen to be in the world if the host country cannot.

This is very much the case in Thailand, where the host country cannot give dignity to visitors affected by crime.

However to make my point re China I refer to the capture of Naw Kham in Laos ( 10/05/2012) by the special forces of Peoples Republic of China. I had previously worked with the Chinese security bureau as a trainer. Naw Kham, a Burmese drug lord was hiding out in Laos after killing 12 Chinese in the Golden Triangle region . He was executed in Kunming,Yunnan province of China on March 1st 2013 along with 3 accomplices from Laos and Myanmar. I was in the Mekong River basin region when all this happened. He had assumed the Lao police would protect him but the opposite occurred the Lao police directed the Chinese to his hiding place.

In general terms I do not agree with the govt of PRC but I submit they are better at looking after their citizens abroad than the UK have shown in the last few months. Incidentally the executions at Kunming brought the murdering of Chinese on the Mekong to a complete halt whereas the murders at Koh Tao are ongoing, spot the difference? Ever tried to commit a crime against an Israeli abroad?

[glenmohr]

....China does a pretty good job of killing its own....

Correct Bigger, but they will not take any crap when people kill their citizens abroad.

Much of what you have written would appear to be wishful thinking rather than factually correct; unless of course you are including acts of terror for which different rules entirely apply.

I believe Eva it is every govt's duty to look after its own no matter where they happen to be in the world if the host country cannot.

This is very much the case in Thailand, where the host country cannot give dignity to visitors affected by crime.

However to make my point re China I refer to the capture of Naw Kham in Laos ( 10/05/2012) by the special forces of Peoples Republic of China. I had previously worked with the Chinese security bureau as a trainer. Naw Kham, a Burmese drug lord was hiding out in Laos after killing 12 Chinese in the Golden Triangle region . He was executed in Kunming,Yunnan province of China on March 1st 2013 along with 3 accomplices from Laos and Myanmar. I was in the Mekong River basin region when all this happened. He had assumed the Lao police would protect him but the opposite occurred the Lao police directed the Chinese to his hiding place.

In general terms I do not agree with the govt of PRC but I submit they are better at looking after their citizens abroad than the UK have shown in the last few months. Incidentally the executions at Kunming brought the murdering of Chinese on the Mekong to a complete halt whereas the murders at Koh Tao are ongoing, spot the difference? Ever tried to commit a crime against an Israeli abroad?

Another person executed at Kunming was a Thai national so it can be done!

[evadgib]

Granted, but how do cross border incursions in pursuit of terror suspects relate in any way to this thread?

Edited January 22, 2016 by evadgib

[JLCrab]

Luke Miller, Nick Pearson and David Miller all found with battered bodies in shallow water.

UK media outlets now headlining " Luke Miller was murdered"

<snip>

Maybe -- but I'm still looking. Nothing via Google News < "Luke Miller" murdered Koh Tao >

[stephenterry]

Luke Miller, Nick Pearson and David Miller all found with battered bodies in shallow water.

UK media outlets now headlining " Luke Miller was murdered"

<snip>

Maybe -- but I'm still looking. Nothing via Google News < "Luke Miller" murdered Koh Tao >

And you probably won't. Does that make you feel better?

Just zip your mouth until something happens or not..

[JLCrab]

Luke Miller, Nick Pearson and David Miller all found with battered bodies in shallow water.

UK media outlets now headlining " Luke Miller was murdered"

<snip>

Maybe -- but I'm still looking. Nothing via Google News < "Luke Miller" murdered Koh Tao >

And you probably won't. Does that make you feel better?

Just zip your mouth until something happens or not..

Where are the HEADLINES?

[glenmohr]

Granted, but how do cross border incursions in pursuit of terror suspects relate in any way to this thread?

The British govt will not put any pressure on Thailand to locate and punish the gang that has been killing British tourists on Koh Tao.

The various gang members captured in Laos by the Chinese special police force were neither religious nor state terrorists Eva, they were a motley group of mean and nasty drug dealers. The Chinese captured them in Laos, 2 Lao, one Burmese and one Thai.

And now the British Embassy ( Bangkok version) is refusing to re claim even the passport of Andy Hall who is carrying so much of the load personally to gain justice for so many.

The view of the British Embassy is that they cannot interfere in another jurisdiction, that fully justifies the murder of 8 million Jews. We could not interfere they thought.

Oddly enough the Chinese have little to no concept of human rights until you start killing Han Chinese then they spring into action.

[glenmohr]

Luke Miller, Nick Pearson and David Miller all found with battered bodies in shallow water.

UK media outlets now headlining " Luke Miller was murdered"

<snip>

Maybe -- but I'm still looking. Nothing via Google News < "Luke Miller" murdered Koh Tao >

And you probably won't. Does that make you feel better?

Just zip your mouth until something happens or not..

Where are the HEADLINES?

By your posts and apparent knowledge JLC you are probably in Thailand. As S. Terry says you will not see what I am seeing outside Thailand, I was trying to be helpful but the media outlet I quoted has been unable to unblock that item inside Thailand , seems there is some kind of censorship going on. If I make any progress I will PM you with the detail.

[bannork]

as far as I understand the full transcript of the UK autopsy was provided to the Thai court but was ignored and never disclosed - you need to ask why the Thai court refused enter it into evidence.....why ?

Apologies for editing your quote smedly.

According to the trial report the UK Autopsy was ignored by the judges because it was presented by Andy Hall and he is not a forensic expert ! You couldn't make it up could you !

Why did the defence not call Khunying Pornthip, the Thai forensic expert who stated there was no DNA on the hoe from the 2 suspects, to comment on the UK autopsy?

[jayjay78]

Luke Miller, Nick Pearson and David Miller all found with battered bodies in shallow water.

UK media outlets now headlining " Luke Miller was murdered"

<snip>

Maybe -- but I'm still looking. Nothing via Google News < "Luke Miller" murdered Koh Tao >

"It was murder....and we won't let it rest"

Andrew D latest article

[SiSePuede419]

"It was murder....and we won't let it rest"

I just read that article. No news. That quote is heresay. That guy loves to print heresay.

Can a journalist get away with printing heresay in the UK? Aren't there libel laws there that prohibit that?

I'd love to hear the facts, but the fact is the latest "news" is not news, nor does it involve any new facts (just a "greatest hits" of past events)...

[jayjay78]

"It was murder....and we won't let it rest"

I just read that article. No news. That quote is heresay. That guy loves to print heresay.

Can a journalist get away with printing heresay in the UK? Aren't there libel laws there that prohibit that?

I'd love to hear the facts, but the fact is the latest "news" is not news, nor does it involve any new facts (just a "greatest hits" of past events)...

He reported they've made statements, to the UK police, what more do you want, the UK police to make a statement and confirm it for you? Until that happens it remains hear say. huum

[kcirtapyelrah]

"It was murder....and we won't let it rest"

I just read that article. No news. That quote is heresay. That guy loves to print heresay.

Can a journalist get away with printing heresay in the UK? Aren't there libel laws there that prohibit that?

I'd love to hear the facts, but the fact is the latest "news" is not news, nor does it involve any new facts (just a "greatest hits" of past events)...

Your absolutely brimming with confidence Mr Mexican, does egotistical register with you.

[evadgib]

Granted, but how do cross border incursions in pursuit of terror suspects relate in any way to this thread?

The British govt will not put any pressure on Thailand to locate and punish the gang that has been killing British tourists on Koh Tao.

The various gang members captured in Laos by the Chinese special police force were neither religious nor state terrorists Eva, they were a motley group of mean and nasty drug dealers. The Chinese captured them in Laos, 2 Lao, one Burmese and one Thai.

And now the British Embassy ( Bangkok version) is refusing to re claim even the passport of Andy Hall who is carrying so much of the load personally to gain justice for so many.

The view of the British Embassy is that they cannot interfere in another jurisdiction, that fully justifies the murder of 8 million Jews. We could not interfere they thought.

Oddly enough the Chinese have little to no concept of human rights until you start killing Han Chinese then they spring into action.

Actually he states quite clearly via his social media accounts that they asked for it back and the court refused!

The Genocide to which you refer is another red herring, but for the record the allies DID 'interfere' when they overran the likes of Bergan/Belsen, Dachau, Auschwitz etc between Nov 1944 & May 1945; all of which occurring long before any tourist-related convention (to bring the thread back on topic) was drawn up.

Edited January 22, 2016 by evadgib

[SiSePuede419]

Is it egotistical to know the difference between heresay and facts?

Sounds like something a pseudo-journalist might say, 555

Obviously, someone who has no education in logic. Yes, I did successfully complete a University level class in logic. The topic does exist. It's real. Although, many people here have never heard of it, 555

For your further education:

http://m.bjc.oxfordjournals.org/content

Edited January 22, 2016 by SiSePuede419

[silverado]

Is it egotistical to know the difference between heresay and facts?

Sounds like something a pseudo-journalist might say, 555

Obviously, someone who has no education in logic. Yes, I did successfully complete a University level class in logic. The topic does exist. It's real. Although, many people here have never heard of it, 555

For your further education:

http://m.bjc.oxfordjournals.org/content

we have ggenious members here on tvs...

halla ouak bar !

[JLCrab]

In reference to the overy-nested post above, The UK media outlets I looked at have names like The Telegraph, The Guardian, The Independent, The DailyMail, The Standard, The BBC, etc. which all carried the Luke Miller drowning story. I know where one could read the 'murder' reference and I can read it here in Thailand.

Media outlet?

Edited January 22, 2016 by JLCrab

[berybert]

The Luke's Legacy page, which is of course (as has been discussed) run by friends and family of the deceased, reported a day or two ago that the evidence that they have claimed exists has been passed to the UK police.

This family doesn't seem to be getting much empathy from the shills, a bit like the treatment that was meted out to another family from a recent case who suggested that all was not above board, and directly contrary to the handling the family who toed the party line received.

Funny that.

Let hope the people who passed the pictures to the UK police have more copies. Sadly I have lost hope in the UK authorities doing the right thing. They care some what less than they should about their subjects being killed in foreign lands.