New Overstay Rules Announced By Immigration

[elviajero]

So it doesn't look like there is a 90 day grace period for those arrested. Caught with a 1 day overstay and it's a 5 year ban!

That's the way I read it also... Pretty HARSH for anyone unlucky to get arrested while on a very brief overstay.

Yes, the reg does say "arrested and prosecuted", not just arrested on overstay. But the way the Thai authorities operate, who knows how that language is going to be used in real life situations.

They could very well take the language literally, and start handing out 5 year bans for any overstay arrests. I guess we'll find out when the time comes.

I think they have had to do it this way otherwise I doubt much would change except that the bar stool would be telling everyone it's ok to overstay 90 days and people would limit their overstays to 90 days, exit and repeat.

Having the threat of a 5 year ban is a deterrent that I am sure will see a change in mindset and fix the problem.

I honestly believe that immigration are fed up with the growing opinion that overstaying is ok and accepted by immigration.

Edited January 12, 2016 by elviajero

[Si Thea01]

So, I have been here 10 years legally and I miscalculate my dates and I am stopped and arrested a few days over. Automatic 5 year ban. Wow a bit harsh but TIT.

How could one miscalculate their dates. Failed maths did we?

[tonywillo]

So, I have been here 10 years legally and I miscalculate my dates and I am stopped and arrested a few days over. Automatic 5 year ban. Wow a bit harsh but TIT.

Arrested and prosecuted is what it says. Doesn't seem harsh to me that they'd want to ban criminals from the country.

Yes, the key words are "arrested and prosecuted". But as others are pointing out, a one day miscalculation could lead to a 5 year ban? That is just wrong. Draconian policies tend to not bother the illegals, since they are going to try and get away with it anyway, but it can really harm the general Tourist population that makes a mistake or gets a bit lax now and then. I know I did a one day overstay in the past, and this was after 11 trips to the country. I thought paying a nominal fine at the border was OK and I was happy to do that as I extended my trip via a border run for another 30 (29) days. I spent a fair amount of money on that two month vacation and now after 14 trips to the country, getting threatened with these penalties is not appreciated.

Wouldn't worry too much, after 14 trips I am sure you know that all is negotiable. This is just a mechanism to get rid of the real undesirables, and long time overdue.

After 35 years I know some things are now NOT negotiable. And another comment just before about brown paper bags???

If you hadn't noticed, there's a General in charge with a mission (among other things) on bribery and corruption. Only a fool would try and buy a government official these days. Cop it sweet and pay the fine...forget about brown paper bags and negotiations.

Ah I hear the crows sing TIT nothing will change....but they have today with this and many other reforms in the last 18 months.

The noose is tightening for those who think they can flaunt / manipulate Thai laws. More of this to come... Guaranteed

[elviajero]

Would this affect 90 day reporting by people on retirement visas in any way?

JUST TO RECONFIRM, YOUR 90 DAY REPORT STARTS FROM WHEN YOU ENTER/RE-ENTER THE COUNTRY

• Overstaying your permission to stay has nothing to do with 90 day reporting.
• If you are more than 7 days late making a 90 day report the fine is 2,000 baht up to a maximum of 5,000. There are no other consequences or bans.

[elviajero]

Has this been published in the Royal Gazette and thus making it a law?

It is a ministerial regulation not a law. The reason for it not starting until March is for the 60 day requirement from the date it was published.

A couple of relevant observations here;

If its a ministerial regulation and not a law, then how could it be administered with any lawful relevance?

• It is already law.
• Section 16 of the immigration act gives the Minister in charge of the act the power to exclude any alien or group of aliens. The ministerial regulation is simply to specify which group (overstayers) are being excluded. In order to enforce the regulation it must be published in the gazette for 60 days (section 5).

[elviajero]

Just another money maker for them.. Bigger fines and let off is what will happen..

Quite the opposite. These new rules will reduce overstaying, therefore, the fines collected at borders will be less. Anyone arrested and put in front of a judge usually gets fined a far less than the 20k allowed under the law.

This is not about money but the increased number of people taking the piss out of Thailand's already easy immigration policy.

[elviajero]

So it doesn't look like there is a 90 day grace period for those arrested. Caught with a 1 day overstay and it's a 5 year ban!

That's exactly how it reads.......is there any official clarification on that? It seems a bit draconian.

Why is everyone saying 1 day overstay is prosecution ?? I read it and it says OVER 90 days so a couple of days is still no problem ....... If your overstaying 3 mths or more you should prosecuted thats not an oversight. Every Country has the same whats the big deal

Based on the OP the 90 days grace period only applies to people that surrender. Anyone arrested and prosecuted with less 1 year overstay can be banned for 5 years. 1 day is less than 1 year so presumably they can be prosecuted and banned for 5 years.

[ResandePohm]

So, I have been here 10 years legally and I miscalculate my dates and I am stopped and arrested a few days over. Automatic 5 year ban. Wow a bit harsh but TIT.

Then you shouldn't commit crimes in Thailand. Your own fault

[springheeled jack]

i am in favour of the new rules on overstay but unless there are purges made there will still be people who will defy the rules the rules need to be enforced .

[peteregion]

how can you miscalculate? . you email yourself the date In your passport, set alarm on Google, sent email to yourself 1 week before, repeat alarm 3 days before.

place the date on your exit door so you see it everyday.

etc.

How does sending an email to yourself one week before do anything? You'll just receive that email within a few minutes after sending it.

Should you also send a reminder email a week before sending that email?

You never heard of setting email rules and reminder rules?????

[Maestro]

...

Having had so much fun decided to change his flight which brought him over the 30 VE day limit.... late but no problem .

...

What do you mean with VE?

[BKResort]

Did I understood that one day overstay means leaving the country for 5 years?...... or I will have a grace period of 90 days?

No exceptions for retired expats and married ones?.... overstay after 90 days report, or after the one year extension?

Edited January 12, 2016 by BKResort

[samsensam]

So, I have been here 10 years legally and I miscalculate my dates and I am stopped and arrested a few days over. Automatic 5 year ban. Wow a bit harsh but TIT.

Arrested and prosecuted is what it says. Doesn't seem harsh to me that they'd want to ban criminals from the country.

agree, not harsh at all. live like a normal person within the laws of the country and you will have no problems.

[elviajero]

Did I understood that one day overstay means leaving the country for 5 years?...... or I will have a grace period of 90 days?

No exceptions for retired expats and married ones?.... overstay after 90 days report, or after the one year extension?

Anyone caught on overstay and arrested could be banned for 5 years. Whether they start prosecuting and banning people for overstaying one day will not be known for several months.

These bans apply to overstaying your one year extension. Nothing to do with 90 day reports.

[elviajero]

Just another money maker for them.. Bigger fines and let off is what will happen..

Quite the opposite. These new rules will reduce overstaying, therefore, the fines collected at borders will be less. Anyone arrested and put in front of a judge usually gets fined a far less than the 20k allowed under the law.

This is not about money but the increased number of people taking the piss out of Thailand's already easy immigration policy.

Arguably it's about xenophobia and the historical tendency to shift blame to foreigners rather than looking inward and asking themselves what endemic problems the country has - i.e. what's attracting all these criminals to Thailand in the first place.

I wouldn't be jumping for joy at this news as if things are going to get so much better if a few overstayers get blacklisted. There are some deep problems with Thailand, which we're not even really allowed to post about it freely. It could be a sign of things to come.

Blacklisting for even 1 day of overstay? And your theory is that they decided on that just in case people would overstay 89 days at a time over and over, paying 120k a year? I don't think so, it's more likely a shifting attitude towards all foreigners.

It's nothing to do with xenophobia on the part of Thailand. This has been coming for years and is 100% down to the increasing numbers of foreigners disrespecting the rules/laws.

I agree that the need for bans is a bad thing, but any change in Thai attitude is again the result of foreigners actions. People defending overstaying often claim it has no affect on anyone, but the more people step out of line the more restrictive immigration regulations will become.

I accept only a few would repeat their overstay, but the point was that many would limit their overstay to 90 days if they knew there was no risk of a ban. The ball game completely changes now.

I hope that authorities don't ban everyone caught on a 1 day (short) overstay, but they only have themselves to blame if it happens. It's not difficult to plan an exit within the date printed in their passport, and if needs be they can go to immigration and get an extra 7 days to leave or a qualifying extension of stay.

Edited January 12, 2016 by elviajero

[papayasalad]

how can you miscalculate? . you email yourself the date In your passport, set alarm on Google, sent email to yourself 1 week before, repeat alarm 3 days before.

place the date on your exit door so you see it everyday.

etc.

How does sending an email to yourself one week before do anything? You'll just receive that email within a few minutes after sending it.

Should you also send a reminder email a week before sending that email?

You never heard of setting email rules and reminder rules?????

he would be surprised to known that it's possible to send emails after your own death

[jspill]

Lately, increased attention and questioning before you even enter, is 'a measure to weed out foreign criminals'.

'Immigration officials have increased checks of tourists arriving at several border points, demanding details on their trips here. One regular traveller from Laos told The Nation recently that officials demanded a thorough examination of her passport, as well as particulars of her temporary stays in the country. "They asked me to write complete information concerning the hotels I would use as well as phone numbers - something that has never happened before," Pathumrat Saisanit said. This closer scrutiny and inspection is part of the measures launched by Immigration Police to weed out foreign criminals.'

http://www.nationmul...s-30276659.html

Even if you've showed all those hotel and flight docs, plus income proof, for one of the new METVs (twice the cost too), you still get questioned:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/870548-the-multiple-entry-tourist-visa-topic-metv/page-38#entry10296862

So is this really about overstayers? Those people aren't even staying yet, let alone overstaying.

[FritsSikkink]

Lately, increased attention and questioning before you even enter, is 'a measure to weed out foreign criminals'.

'Immigration officials have increased checks of tourists arriving at several border points, demanding details on their trips here. One regular traveller from Laos told The Nation recently that officials demanded a thorough examination of her passport, as well as particulars of her temporary stays in the country. "They asked me to write complete information concerning the hotels I would use as well as phone numbers - something that has never happened before," Pathumrat Saisanit said. This closer scrutiny and inspection is part of the measures launched by Immigration Police to weed out foreign criminals.'

http://www.nationmul...s-30276659.html

Even if you've showed all those hotel and flight docs, plus income proof, for one of the new METVs (twice the cost too), you still get questioned:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/870548-the-multiple-entry-tourist-visa-topic-metv/page-38#entry10296862

So is this really about overstayers? Those people aren't even staying yet, let alone overstaying.

the rules are about overstayers but you are going off topic.

[tonray]

Did I understood that one day overstay means leaving the country for 5 years?...... or I will have a grace period of 90 days?

No exceptions for retired expats and married ones?.... overstay after 90 days report, or after the one year extension?

if you have made the commitment to retire here or marry a Thai national, then perhaps you should commit to learning how to use reminders on your smartphone calendar.

[Lampang2]

And what about theBurmian, Camboduan workers who are nuilding up Thailand?

Or Thais would like to work ?

This is mostly a law towards them.

But falangs always want to think the world spins around them.

It's all in your mind.

Nothing else.

[NanLaew]

You are TOTALLY wrong with your comment on the repercussions of a US overstay. In my case; an ALLEGED overstay, I have resigned myself to the fact that I will receive an unpleasant 'secondary inspection' every time I arrive in the US in perpetuity. I am also banned from using the visa waiver system; therefore I need a visa for each and every US entry. They are not legally bound to share this overstay evidence with me or my attorney; the onus is on me to prove that I didn't overstay. This dates back to 2002... about 4 passports and several hundred boarding passes ago.

Imagine what the 'TV grumpies' would make of being pulled up each and every time they enter LOS?

Nothing tall or equestrian about it.

So you are not banned and have been able to go back "several hundred" times since then?

Like I said you are not barred if you overstay in the US less than 180 days you get a overstay stamp in your passport meaning the officer at immigration will pull you over. How is that worst than an outright ban?

You also miss understood the TV comment, they aren't complaining it's too hard, they are wishing people with two days overstay get the ban, they would welcome people getting pulled over.

I was contesting your totally wrong assertion with respect to the US immigration policy where you say, "...you overstay less than 180 days NOTHING happens to you." (your emphasis, not mine).

You do NOT get any overstay stamp in your passport. US Immigration flag your passport in their system, so you front up, they ask the usual questions, get your dabs and then they turn on the red light above the booth, hand your passport to your escort and off you go to secondary inspection.

Their secondary inspections are ball achingly pedantic exercises in petty bureaucracy and a total waste of my my time and their resources. They only flagged my alleged 2002 overstays in 2011 and I was subject to 3 secondary inspections over the ensuing 8 months, each getting longer and more tedious until they finally threw their toys out of the pram and disallowed me from using the visa waiver in 2012. Since the US visa costs money, takes time to get and is not a guarantee of being allowed to enter the US, I haven't been back.

Now enough about me and back on topic, I hope that any abusers of Thailand's new immigration rules feel exactly the same as I do and once they get busted, fined, jailed and deported, they don't try and come back here.

Edited January 12, 2016 by NanLaew

[FritsSikkink]

Did I understood that one day overstay means leaving the country for 5 years?...... or I will have a grace period of 90 days?

No exceptions for retired expats and married ones?.... overstay after 90 days report, or after the one year extension?

if you have made the commitment to retire here or marry a Thai national, then perhaps you should commit to learning how to use reminders on your smartphone calendar.

or if that is too difficult put a daily calander in your toilet and mark the days

[tonray]

You are TOTALLY wrong with your comment on the repercussions of a US overstay. In my case; an ALLEGED overstay, I have resigned myself to the fact that I will receive an unpleasant 'secondary inspection' every time I arrive in the US in perpetuity. I am also banned from using the visa waiver system; therefore I need a visa for each and every US entry. They are not legally bound to share this overstay evidence with me or my attorney; the onus is on me to prove that I didn't overstay. This dates back to 2002... about 4 passports and several hundred boarding passes ago.

Imagine what the 'TV grumpies' would make of being pulled up each and every time they enter LOS?

Nothing tall or equestrian about it.

So you are not banned and have been able to go back "several hundred" times since then?

Like I said you are not barred if you overstay in the US less than 180 days you get a overstay stamp in your passport meaning the officer at immigration will pull you over. How is that worst than an outright ban?

You also miss understood the TV comment, they aren't complaining it's too hard, they are wishing people with two days overstay get the ban, they would welcome people getting pulled over.

I was contesting your totally wrong assertion with respect to the US immigration policy where you say, "...you overstay less than 180 days NOTHING happens to you." (your emphasis, not mine).

You do NOT get any overstay stamp in your passport. They flag your passport in their system, so you front up, they ask the usual questions, get your dabs and then they turn on the red light and ask you to go with your immigration escort to secondary inspection.

Their secondary inspections are ball achingly pedantic exercises in petty bureaucracy and a total waste of my my time and their resources. They only flagged the alleged 2002 overstays in 2011 and since then I was subject to 4 secondary inspections, each getting longer and more tedious until they finally threw their toys out of the pram and disallowed me from using the visa waiver in 2012. Never been back since.

Now back on topic, I hope that any abusers of Thailand's new immigration rules feel exactly the same as I do and once they get busted, fined, jailed and deported, they don't try and come back here.

And in addition...if you are caught by INS (Immigration and naturalization Service) working illegally....you will be sent to a detention center, where you may stay for weeks before a judge hears your case and either decides to deport you or consider your appeal. It is not as penalty free as one might imagine.

[moe666]

I guess many here didn't read the Bangkok Post a few days ago Thailand seems to have a influx of visa overstaying Chinese crooks and from the article the immigration office interviewed about the article mentioned targetting the Chinese crooks for overstay.

[TheCruncher]

Gonna be quiet in Pattaya in the next few months.

[Mirkwood]

I think this will do more good than harm.

Few of the older guys need to go home. DELETED

Edited January 12, 2016 by seedy
offensive

[sanukjim]

So, I have been here 10 years legally and I miscalculate my dates and I am stopped and arrested a few days over. Automatic 5 year ban. Wow a bit harsh but TIT.

The lesson here is,,Do not wait until the last minute trying to get an extra day out of your visa and may be finding immigration closed for an unexplained reason.Go as soon as you are able to get it done. Procrastination will cost you.

[sanukjim]

When ever the BIB wants to all they have to do is walk around Pattaya requiring expats to show their visa Then the deportations a

and jails will be growing.Is sounds harsh but its a great way to get rid of the rats and bums..

[TheKnave]

Good about time.

How is it good?

Do overstayers impact on your lifestyle?

I am not sure about "lifestyle", but people flaunting the immigration rules brings attention to all who fall under those rules.

So you had planned to break those rules at some point, and now you're mad because someone caused the authorities to institute harsher penalties?

Never undetstand this irrational circular logic. Snitch mentality in my book.

Learn to mind your own business, keep your own house in order, and live a happy life.

[TheKnave]

Come 20 Mar 16 the bell will toll for overstayers with over a 90 days overstay for those who surrender themselves, but for those who get arrested it appears there is no 90 day grace period if I'm reading the announcement right.

If I was an overstayer of over 90 days I would definitely exit Thailand before the rules go into effect 20 Mar 16 in order to avoid a long ban on reentry. Get legal on your stay or possibly say goodbye to Thailand for a year (or many more depending on overstay length) once identified as an overstayer.

Actually, I'm somewhat surprised the govt is actually putting it into effect but it does appear it's going into effect 20 Mar 16.

The much lamented 'grace period' started when they published the statement that ubonjoe has kindly posted here. Those with a penchant to ignore the way the wind is blowing have more than 60 days to get legal or face the consequences.

I would hope that in-flight announcements on inbound flights will include reference to the new overstay penalties, similar to the drug penalty announcements that neighboring countries mandate arriving airlines to make. The landing cards that every arriving passenger receives AND SIGNS should include statements about the perils of overstaying and require the passenger SIGN IT as well. This is similar to the short declaration that passengers arriving in the US without a visa have to sign. Handily enough, there's already a blank page on the current landing card so the new declaration could easily be added.

There's a 'must leave by' date stamped in the passport and a signed acknowledgment of the penalties on the landing card. Is it really too bad if anyone claims to have overlooked these and gets banged up?

You must have very little to worry about day-to-day to put so much energy into worrying about this, and what other visitors to Thailand are doing...