“Good guys in, bad guys out”, says Thailand Immigration chief

[elviajero]

A DN living in Thailand for more than 180 days a year is considered resident for tax and many are probably, if unwittingly, evading tax.

It seems to me that many like the idea of a nomadic life, but in reality have just relocated their business to Thailand.

because most of them don't earn enough to stay alive in their own country

One could say the same thing about many expats in Thailand, living out in the sticks of Surat Thani supporting families. In their country they'd be struggling financially - we all chose Thailand because it was a better value for money option. We're all essentially economic migrants, be proud of it instead of attacking others.

DNs aren't required to pay income tax if they're not remitting money to Thailand in the year it's earned. Thailand isn't really chasing them for it either, it'd be negligible. Seems a silly thing to get worked up about.

I think peoples reasons for choosing Thailand vary and value for money is dependant on where you live.

It is up to the tax resident to submit a tax return and not Thailand's to chase. I agree chasing it wouldn't be worth while as any tax liability would likely be negligible in the grand scheme. But the fact (no I can't prove it) remains that DN's living and working here are not complying with their duty to submit a tax return when applicable, and that tax is being evaded.

[fey]

in a country where existing laws are not enforced its not surprising that foreign visitors flaunt laws as well

are they suppossed to be "good" here because they come from countries where laws mean something??

its surprising in the extremist that thailand appears to care as much about visa issues as they do.

i hope they can carry this concern to other areas of society at some point in the future.

[dcnx]

How about rewards for good guys? How about granting a foreigner who has worked and lived here for more than 10 years, paid taxes, learned the language, invested here, married a Thai, raised a family, etc. in Thailand a citizenship without the need of running through that flimsy and rather questionable process of applying for residency and to then eventually win (and pay 250k for it) the lottery and get citizenship after an undetermined "waiting period"??? Oh wait, that would required logical thinking and empathy for minorities... wrong country... shoite...

But you're still a foreigner, so all of that means little to them. One slip up and you may as well be a bearded criminal. ;-)

[dcnx]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

Not sure why you think some foreigner who is living in Thailand illegally constitutes a cash cow.

Cash cows are tourists who come, spend and go.

It makes sense for Thailand to want to eliminate the illegitimate riff-raff. The problem is, they're trying to do it with an immigration enforcement bureaucracy that lacks consistency, predictability and professionalism. THAT'S hurting tourism, because the immigration boys are basically blinded into not being able to tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys", and spurred on by institutionalized xenophobic hysteria, impose caprice and abuse of discretion on foreigners at random. Those who ARE playing by the rules get caught up in it and are extremely resentful of the fact.

Good guys, bad guys, whatever the case, we're not Thai. That means we're basically all the same to them.

Foreigners are tolerated here, not welcomed. It doesn't matter how well you speak the language, how influential you think you are, or how many families you support, at the end of the day, you're still only tolerated. If we were all welcome, the laws would be drastically different.

[Bobotie]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

Not sure why you think some foreigner who is living in Thailand illegally constitutes a cash cow.

Cash cows are tourists who come, spend and go.

It makes sense for Thailand to want to eliminate the illegitimate riff-raff. The problem is, they're trying to do it with an immigration enforcement bureaucracy that lacks consistency, predictability and professionalism. THAT'S hurting tourism, because the immigration boys are basically blinded into not being able to tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys", and spurred on by institutionalized xenophobic hysteria, impose caprice and abuse of discretion on foreigners at random. Those who ARE playing by the rules get caught up in it and are extremely resentful of the fact.

Good guys, bad guys, whatever the case, we're not Thai. That means we're basically all the same to them.

Foreigners are tolerated here, not welcomed. It doesn't matter how well you speak the language, how influential you think you are, or how many families you support, at the end of the day, you're still only tolerated. If we were all welcome, the laws would be drastically different.

How would the laws be different if we were all welcome then ?...

[willyumiii]

Fake ED Visas, back to back tourist visas, now overstayers....

Thailand has discovered Head & Shoulders Shampoo!

They are getting rid of the flakes!

[jspill]

Good guys, bad guys, whatever the case, we're not Thai. That means we're basically all the same to them.

Foreigners are tolerated here, not welcomed. It doesn't matter how well you speak the language, how influential you think you are, or how many families you support, at the end of the day, you're still only tolerated. If we were all welcome, the laws would be drastically different.

How would the laws be different if we were all welcome then ?...

In line with international norms where people supporting a local family are given right to remain, no yearly visa renewals, no 90 day reporting, can own their house and land, 100% of a business, can vote, etc.

Edited March 13, 2016 by jspill

[dcnx]

How would the laws be different if we were all welcome then ?...

To start, reciprocal property laws. If your home country welcomes them to buy property (not just condos), you should be permitted to do the same here without having to jump through hoops, some of which may be illegal, or at the very least grey. Secondly, if you are eligible for a 1 year visa, ditch the 90 day check ins. It's a waste of time and resources. And on and on about fair visa changes, including visa rules they don't change every 6 months.

I have a 10 year tourist visa for China and a 5 year visa for Brazil. Why is that so difficult for the Thais? Even with an Elite visa you have to check in every 90 days so they can keep tabs on you. It's insulting. Retirees should have to do it once per year, at most.

Then you have work restrictions, with only certain jobs reserved for Thais. That is holding the country back in so many ways. Let us work whatever job we are qualified for, it will improve the nation and force them to be competitive.

Stop with the double and triple pricing. Nothing says "screw you" more than seeing a 40b price for locals and 400b for us. Enough said about that.

Do you really need me to continue, or do you honestly think you're welcome here?

Edited March 13, 2016 by dcnx

[jacko45k]

How would the laws be different if we were all welcome then ?...

To start, reciprocal property laws. If your home country welcomes them to buy property (not just condos), you should be permitted to do the same here without having to jump through hoops, some of which may be illegal, or at the very least grey. Secondly, if you are eligible for a 1 year visa, ditch the 90 day check ins. It's a waste of time and resources. And on and on about fair visa changes, including visa rules they don't change every 6 months.

I have a 10 year tourist visa for China and a 5 year visa for Brazil. Why is that so difficult for the Thais? Even with an Elite visa you have to check in every 90 days so they can keep tabs on you. It's insulting. Retirees should have to do it once per year, at most.

Then you have work restrictions, with only certain jobs reserved for Thais. That is holding the country back in so many ways. Let us work whatever job we are qualified for, it will improve the nation and force them to be competitive.

Stop with the double and triple pricing. Nothing says "screw you" more than seeing a 40b price for locals and 400b for us. Enough said about that.

Do you really need me to continue, or do you honestly think you're welcome here?

You are being very selective where you insist on reciprocity.

Perhaps when Western countries offer Thais no-visa access or even easier tourist visits we could consider that aspect.

I have some sympathy with Thailand controlling the ownership of it's territory, and it certainly is not a unique to Thailand rule.

The 90 Day check-in rule I believed to be a police requirement rather than specifically immigration, do it on-line it is no effort whatsoever.

Similar with the employment situation, Thailand fears it's own people being driven out of employment by cheaper foreign workers, and wants foreign residents to generate work for Thais. A Government doing it's best for it's own people primarily. Perhaps short-sighted, but primarily protective. Nevertheless work permits are given out..... but not for a Farang serving beer in his bar!

I do not like the double pricing either, but it is also done in your beloved China, and somewhat slyly in places like London. Subsidies paid for by Government taxes on locals should not be passed on to tourists and foreigners.

I agree we are not particularly welcome here, we are at the stage where there are just too many foreigners around, a sentiment I see in Europe too.

Still, we remain here, warts and all, because it is better, and their country, their rules!

[JLCrab]

Re: 90 day rule from

Immigration Act In the name of his Mejesty King Bhumibol Enacted on the 24Th of February B.E. 2522 The 34Th year of the present reign

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following:

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office.

I don't see that one changing any time soon.

Edited March 14, 2016 by JLCrab

[lopburi3]

It was not enforced until about a decade ago so it could be ignored as are other "blue laws" here and elsewhere. Immigration officers were not really happy to be required to enforce this provision and if the on-line system ever becomes available to all it is a huge step to at least make it much less of a burden for both immigration and the persons having to report. For me it is still a trip to immigration every 90 days - for someone who, when in Thailand, has always been at the same address for the past 42 years and has been living continually for the last 23.

[JLCrab]

It is s-u-c-h an inconvenience in my busy schedule but I manage to find a break in my commitments -/+ 7 days within my due date even if others must reschedule important decisions that cannot be made without my considerable input.

[LannaGuy]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

Not sure why you think some foreigner who is living in Thailand illegally constitutes a cash cow.

Cash cows are tourists who come, spend and go.

It makes sense for Thailand to want to eliminate the illegitimate riff-raff. The problem is, they're trying to do it with an immigration enforcement bureaucracy that lacks consistency, predictability and professionalism. THAT'S hurting tourism, because the immigration boys are basically blinded into not being able to tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys", and spurred on by institutionalized xenophobic hysteria, impose caprice and abuse of discretion on foreigners at random. Those who ARE playing by the rules get caught up in it and are extremely resentful of the fact.

Good guys, bad guys, whatever the case, we're not Thai. That means we're basically all the same to them.

Foreigners are tolerated here, not welcomed. It doesn't matter how well you speak the language, how influential you think you are, or how many families you support, at the end of the day, you're still only tolerated. If we were all welcome, the laws would be drastically different.

absolutely true Thais are nationalistic and xenophobic and we are always 'outsiders' and so be focussed on obeying the law on visas, licenses, 90 day reporting and any other BS as part of the 'Happiness' of living here

[Thechook]

What video? It says the video doesn't exist when you click on it. Not very informative.

[jspill]

You are being very selective where you insist on reciprocity.

Perhaps when Western countries offer Thais no-visa access or even easier tourist visits we could consider that aspect.

I have some sympathy with Thailand controlling the ownership of it's territory, and it certainly is not a unique to Thailand rule.

The 90 Day check-in rule I believed to be a police requirement rather than specifically immigration, do it on-line it is no effort whatsoever.

Well a large part of the world doesn't get the visa-free entry to Thailand - usually the kind of nationalities that they fear will work illegally - almost all of Africa, half of South America, etc. So Thailand isn't really that different to western countries in that regard, who selectively allow unrestricted travel to wealthy countries to boost tourism revenue (e.g Schengen visa) but not others.

Tourist visits - not that different anymore, the new METV requires proof of employment, savings, etc. just as 6 month visas to the UK / US do. Thais can get those quite easily as long as they have a decent job, i.e. a reason to return. Those are valid for much longer though (10 years, up to 6 months at a time, no need to do a border run after 90 days as with Thai tourist visas).

90 day check in - not available to all, and the website doesn't work for others. There is also 24 hour reporting.

The main thing though is not giving some kind of permanent visa / right to remain to long term expats supporting families, all western countries do that after 3-5 years.

Still, we remain here, warts and all, because it is better, and their country, their rules!

For me as a 20something single male it's better, I don't think it's a better place to grow old or raise a child though.

'Their country, their rules' - a bit too simplistic of a viewpoint, in some situations immigrants to a country can lobby for changes, for example the recent police stop and searches in Bangkok - an expat business owner met with the head of police and put a stop to it.

The new campaign is 'good guys in, bad guys out' but there don't seem to be any incentives or benefits to being good, only punishments for being bad.

Edited March 14, 2016 by jspill

[JLCrab]

Good guys, bad guys, whatever the case, we're not Thai. That means we're basically all the same to them.

Foreigners are tolerated here, not welcomed. It doesn't matter how well you speak the language, how influential you think you are, or how many families you support, at the end of the day, you're still only tolerated. If we were all welcome, the laws would be drastically different.

How would the laws be different if we were all welcome then ?...

In line with international norms where people supporting a local family are given right to remain, no yearly visa renewals, no 90 day reporting, can own their house and land, 100% of a business, can vote, etc.

https://youtu.be/hHRNSeuvzlM?t=176

[jspill]

How would the laws be different if we were all welcome then ?...

In line with international norms where people supporting a local family are given right to remain, no yearly visa renewals, no 90 day reporting, can own their house and land, 100% of a business, can vote, etc.

https://youtu.be/hHRNSeuvzlM?t=176

Was just answering the question, I don't expect it to happen. Thanks for your mature input as always.

[JLCrab]

How would the laws be different if we were all welcome then ?...

In line with international norms where people supporting a local family are given right to remain, no yearly visa renewals, no 90 day reporting, can own their house and land, 100% of a business, can vote, etc.

https://youtu.be/hHRNSeuvzlM?t=176

Was just answering the question, I don't expect it to happen. Thanks for your mature input as always.

You're welcome. But I ain't the one who, no matter what something is, wants it to be something else.

[jacko45k]

'Their country, their rules' - a bit too simplistic of a viewpoint, in some situations immigrants to a country can lobby for changes, for example the recent police stop and searches in Bangkok - an expat business owner met with the head of police and put a stop to it.

The new campaign is 'good guys in, bad guys out' but there don't seem to be any incentives or benefits to being good, only punishments for being bad.

So you quote me an example showing that they do listen to complaints, but I still believe they can make up their own rules and are under no obligation to use the same rules as the West, unless obligated under International law or treaty.

My incentive and benefit for being good, is another years extension of stay quite easily obtained.

Edited March 14, 2016 by jacko45k