“Good guys in, bad guys out”, says Thailand Immigration chief

[Cook my sock]

Starting to think the government are treating foreigners as scapegoats for their own mistakes.

Foreign investment down 78%.. They rely on tourism more than ever now so they are just shooting themselves in the foot

[dageurreotype]

Starting to think the government are treating foreigners as scapegoats for their own mistakes.

Foreign investment down 78%.. They rely on tourism more than ever now so they are just shooting themselves in the foot

Let them. They won't be here much longer.

[Sutty]

Starting to think the government are treating foreigners as scapegoats for their own mistakes.

Foreign investment down 78%.. They rely on tourism more than ever now so they are just shooting themselves in the foot

Let them. They won't be here much longer.

Dream on they will be here for at least another decade.

[Stan7444]

So an over stay of less than 90 days does not get you banned?

Got a question if anyone has the answer: My Retirement Visa is up for renewal 4th Sept (giving lots of time to sort this out). However, the 4th falls on a Sunday. Does that mean I go to Immigration on Mon. the 5th or the prior Fri. the 2nd?

Got a statement as a heads up: Two years ago, due to an accident, I had to go for my Visa renewal 3 day late, for which I paid the 1,500 fine. Last year, I was also 1 day late due to a money problem and paid 500 fine. However, the Immigration gals warned me "if I am late by even one day this or in another year, then I will need to leave for 5 years. Do not know if she was trying to scare me or this is truly the case. The way I read this latest announcement is one has to be over 90 days overstay to incur the wrath of the Thai gov't.

Any other comments and suggestions are welcome. I have also written to Immigration through their website on this first question but do not expect them to really reply to me.

[Stan7444]

I have been here like TheKnave for a long time and have no intention of leaving. I have always played by the rules and have never, touch wood, had a problem. Immigration have always been polite contrary to what many people here say and even with the 90 report I have never had a problem. Maybe all the moaners have problems because of their attitude. Like it or not Thailand is not your country. You should respect that and act accordingly. If they ban people with overstays in excess of 90 days good. Unless you are in hospital or too ill to travel there is no excuse apart from stupidity. If you can not travel for medical reasons immigration can be approached and something will be sorted out. This attitude I didn't have the money or I forgot is bloody stupid. It is your responsibility to make sure you have the funds to leave when the time arrives not immigration. Name one country where you can stay as long as you want without repercussions when your visa expires, and I am not talking about you in your home country. I doubt if any of you can. The over stayers are just pushing their luck as they feel they are important and the laws don't apply to them well they do and you are not important.

A day over stay is excusable. Maybe you read the departure day wrong but it is understandable. 90 days or more is not excusable and now they are clamping down on it. Good for them, good for Thailand and good for all of those who abide by the rules.

Good thoughts and to answer your question about what other country, how about the USA where it is believed there are millions of visa overstays and they have no idea where these people are in the country.

[gandalf12]

I have been here like TheKnave for a long time and have no intention of leaving. I have always played by the rules and have never, touch wood, had a problem. Immigration have always been polite contrary to what many people here say and even with the 90 report I have never had a problem. Maybe all the moaners have problems because of their attitude. Like it or not Thailand is not your country. You should respect that and act accordingly. If they ban people with overstays in excess of 90 days good. Unless you are in hospital or too ill to travel there is no excuse apart from stupidity. If you can not travel for medical reasons immigration can be approached and something will be sorted out. This attitude I didn't have the money or I forgot is bloody stupid. It is your responsibility to make sure you have the funds to leave when the time arrives not immigration. Name one country where you can stay as long as you want without repercussions when your visa expires, and I am not talking about you in your home country. I doubt if any of you can. The over stayers are just pushing their luck as they feel they are important and the laws don't apply to them well they do and you are not important.

A day over stay is excusable. Maybe you read the departure day wrong but it is understandable. 90 days or more is not excusable and now they are clamping down on it. Good for them, good for Thailand and good for all of those who abide by the rules.

Good thoughts and to answer your question about what other country, how about the USA where it is believed there are millions of visa overstays and they have no idea where these people are in the country.

The USA is same as the UK but that doesnt mean to say they should, if found, be allowed to stay. Tight controls wont stop it 100% but it will help. I think if you have a family here then you should get the right to remain for life. If you do something stupid like commit murder or become a drug dealer it can always be cancelled. The 90 day reporting is to say the least archaic

[elviajero]

So an over stay of less than 90 days does not get you banned?

Got a question if anyone has the answer: My Retirement Visa is up for renewal 4th Sept (giving lots of time to sort this out). However, the 4th falls on a Sunday. Does that mean I go to Immigration on Mon. the 5th or the prior Fri. the 2nd?

Got a statement as a heads up: Two years ago, due to an accident, I had to go for my Visa renewal 3 day late, for which I paid the 1,500 fine. Last year, I was also 1 day late due to a money problem and paid 500 fine. However, the Immigration gals warned me "if I am late by even one day this or in another year, then I will need to leave for 5 years. Do not know if she was trying to scare me or this is truly the case. The way I read this latest announcement is one has to be over 90 days overstay to incur the wrath of the Thai gov't.

Any other comments and suggestions are welcome. I have also written to Immigration through their website on this first question but do not expect them to really reply to me.

If you are referring to renewing your 1 year extension of stay based on retirement you can apply anytime within the last 30 days (45 days at some offices).

However, if you want to leave it to the absolute last minute you could apply without penalty on the Monday as the extension expires over the weekend.

[slapout]

I opened this topic as I thought they were approaching the ''bent'' immigration officials but no luck in this problem area.

the problem areas are connected in many cases to said bent officials. Now if you ship one of each of the offender from the ''behind the desk'' out with the farang offenders you would kill 2 birds with swing of the stick.

I have only been approached 1 time for tea money on 1 year extension application. As it was a new passport, and seemly a new face /promotion / employee. I explained that I did not rember the exact amount, but I had a receipt for last year along with the other 20 plus time I had gone thru the routine. After that she did become a little less authoritive sounding in her tone of voice, bless her heart.

[jvs]

As far as i am aware it is no longer considered a crime being illegally in my home country.

I wish the government in my country of origin had done the same (Thailand is now going to do) ,a long time ago.

In that case i probably would have stayed there.

On the other hand i do not think it is entirely Thailand's idea to tighten up the rules,maybe they got encouragement from Europe and the US.

[Cook my sock]

I guess this is aimed at layabout foreigners and petty criminals who relied on the current system.

Real criminals will have connections and are clever enough to obtain a legal visa.

I still feel an air of xenophobia when watching this tho.

[bwpage3]

Since the Erawan shrine bombing in August, Thai Imm has tightened screws. Unfortunately, they don't quite get it right - about who are the good guys and who are bad. It's like the Thai propensity to think all white-skinned Europeans speak English well, and therefore should be considered good English teachers. I met two guys, a Finn and a Frenchman who had scored good jobs at Bkk's best U, teaching English. Neither could speak worth a damn, but the people hiring didn't know or didn't care.

Here's how that applies to the most recent screw-tightening by the Junta: They think farang who aren't overtly polite or who are casual in their attire are baddies, and similarly think farang who dress well and/or have classy Thai girlfriends/wives accompany them to visa renewals, are fine. They can't see through the glossy image to see the substance.

I would bet immigration doesn't think 60 year colds with classy 20 year olds would be fine no matter how they dressed.

[Gringogazzer]

Since the Erawan shrine bombing in August, Thai Imm has tightened screws. Unfortunately, they don't quite get it right - about who are the good guys and who are bad. It's like the Thai propensity to think all white-skinned Europeans speak English well, and therefore should be considered good English teachers. I met two guys, a Finn and a Frenchman who had scored good jobs at Bkk's best U, teaching English. Neither could speak worth a damn, but the people hiring didn't know or didn't care.

Here's how that applies to the most recent screw-tightening by the Junta: They think farang who aren't overtly polite or who are casual in their attire are baddies, and similarly think farang who dress well and/or have classy Thai girlfriends/wives accompany them to visa renewals, are fine. They can't see through the glossy image to see the substance.

I would bet immigration doesn't think 60 year colds with classy 20 year olds would be fine no matter how they dressed.

"60 year colds"

Is that before or after rigor mortis..

[anotheruser]

How about rewards for good guys? How about granting a foreigner who has worked and lived here for more than 10 years, paid taxes, learned the language, invested here, married a Thai, raised a family, etc. in Thailand a citizenship without the need of running through that flimsy and rather questionable process of applying for residency and to then eventually win (and pay 250k for it) the lottery and get citizenship after an undetermined "waiting period"??? Oh wait, that would required logical thinking and empathy for minorities... wrong country... shoite...

Doesn't make sense every member of TV would qualify.

[gemguy]

There are those that like the new rules and those that don't. you can put me down as someone who does not like them for all the reasons I have previously stated. Overstays are not criminals in the sense that they have stolen someone's property or committed a capital crime. The majority of them are down on their luck. You can dislike them; feel no sympathy for them and want them thrown out but I do not feel that way and never will. I would hope people have some sympathy for those who are less well off than oneself. I have mentioned many times, ones life can change in an instant and one who has much can end up with little. Thailand has the right to do whatever it wants with its Immigration law but the video shows how misinformed Thai bureaucracy is about over-stayers. Thai law criminalizes too many things that are essentially civil matters. We can argue about this subject until the sun shines tomorrow and we will never agree on this. Most of us have our own values and see things from different perspectives. Let us agree that people everywhere no matter what their status should be treated with fairness and dignity.Most of the Immigration I have dealt with over the years have treated me that way.

True in many aspects of what you say.

My take on the whole affair is simply this:

It is foolhardy to applaud and or encourage the Thai authorities to start enforcing these kinds of rules.

Like shooting yourself in the foot .

Cheers

Edited January 17, 2016 by gemguy

[FritsSikkink]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

The cash cow are real tourists that stay an average of 10 days. People that overstay are overstaying for a reason, they either have problems (no money), working illegally or wanted back home. Anyone that wants to live in Thailand can get a visa.

May we quote you at our immigration office visit:

"ericthai, a genius of note, says that anyone who wants to live in Thailand can get a visa. Please be so kind as to issue mine now. Thank you."

From what orifice did you pull this gem?

Consider any 30 year old, self-supporting, single person, not desirous of employment in Thailand. He/she would like to stay in Thailand. What visa applies?

As for overstayers being no good, that is only recent propaganda. For years, overstaying was a minor offense, punishable by a small fine. Suddenly, its a big deal. Why? Because the people at the top need a scapegoat to deflect attention from their own misdeeds. The idea that overstayers are somehow responsible for major crime is ludicrous. If I were a successful criminal, I would NEVER overstay. I would just enter legally, do my crimes, exit, and repeat as desired.

The Thai public are mostly unaware of Immigration rules, and couldn't care less about overstayers - at least until the junta started whipping them to a xenophobic lather...

Please...

1) investment visa, elite visa

2)most of them are working illegaly and don't pay tax

3) stop moaning and blaming other people, live according the rules or pack your backs

Edited January 17, 2016 by FritsSikkink

[FritsSikkink]

Well good riddance.

That explains your bitterness and the vitriolic diatribe you hand out to those that stand up for the country they live in. This country is far from perfect, but it's been my permanent home for 20 years and I accept the bad with the good. I have no allegiance to this government or any other, and whatever government is running the show makes little or no difference to my life and I doubt it ever will.

There's enjoying Thailand, and then there's joining the 'defend Thailand from criticism at all costs and put down other farang' club.

What about the constant diatribe from that club like or 'digital nomads are illegals, I have the facts and you shouldn't be here', or cheering the removal of double entry tourist visas, or telling people they don't belong here if they don't have the same visa status as them.

[bhatmasterson]

1. No "NEGRO" in the video

2. Where can we find a Thai who speaks such English ?

Just a curious question for you. What would a negro look like?

[stickylies]

1. No "NEGRO" in the video

2. Where can we find a Thai who speaks such English ?

Just a curious question for you. What would a negro look like?

lemme give you a hint ...

[Rhys]

Somebody did not receive the morning XXXX. It is just this type of critical thinking.. well, give them credit...

[SiSePuede419]

Yes, America offers a 6 month tourist visa. The cost is $160 or 5813B. Some of the most beautiful wilderness in the world...Denali, Grand Canyon, Las Vegas (555). And some of the greatest cities in the world...New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Santa Fe.

555

[Ks45672]

1. No "NEGRO" in the video

2. Where can we find a Thai who speaks such English ?

Just a curious question for you. What would a negro look like?

lemme give you a hint ...

Aha,it's Floyd mayweather Jr, he is ugly, I agree....

[ericthai]

You're out of your depth.

Believe what you want, but the 'solutions' you propose for the type of person I described (of which there are many) are silly. Investment visa? 10 million baht. Thai Elite? lol...

So you meant to say that any RICH person that wants to stay can get a visa (not that 10 million baht is a lot of money, but it's a barrier to many who could otherwise afford to stay).

Not really interested in the prejudices held by Thai Immigration Officers - I have experienced them first hand, and was not impressed. You keep listening to them, and soon you will be more Thai than anyone on your block.

As for the rest, don't make me embarass you...let's just say I was in Thailand before you could find it on a map...

Cheers.

you're so funny, yup play the I'm here longer than you card, like that has anything to do with anything. If you have been in Thailand so

long and so much older then why are you worried about a 30 something needing a visa, seems you just want to argue and show everyone how long you have been in Thailand.

[Maestro]

Removed some more off topic posts.

[lamyai3]

Can't quite place the accent of criminal overstayers, and the immigration officials either.... Somerset... The Midlands..?

Apologies to the female subordinate with the perfect US accent of course...

Edited January 17, 2016 by lamyai3

[digibum]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

Ridiculous comment , the amount of money the overstays contribute to the Thai economy would be so minuscule it would hardly register, definitely not anything like cash cows, overstays only cause problem for legal people. you can not do it in other countries why in Thailand.

Every plonker in Chiang Mai sitting on a bar stool nursing that one draft beer for two hours thinks he is some sort of "cash cow" for Thailand.

Not that there is anything inherently wrong with being in Chiang Mai, on a barstool, with a beer in front of you....but one needs to keep the perspective of what they are contributing.

I wonder how many of these chronic overstayers are making any sort of significant contribution to Thai society. Because if you have substantial business in Thailand, you're probably the kind of person who makes sure you don't F it all up by getting booted out for an overstay.

Where are all of these mysterious overstayers dumping millions of USD/EUR/GBP into the Thai economy?

Also going back to Jool's original statement:

If Cambodia wants them, let them have them. Why haven't you moved yet?

Forty years ago, Thailand was a different place. Now they're full up and the laws are changing. That's life, man. Nothing stays the same forever.

Forty years ago, good luck getting a long-term visa to stay in Cambodia (even if you wanted to). Now they're welcoming and soliciting expats.

Time change.

Bottom line is that you either adapt to the change or you whine and cry about it.

I'm sure all of the people who used to work in aerospace and couldn't get work in the 1990's felt the same. They can whine about the fact that they were encouraged to get a degree in aerospace or find a new career path, that simple. Same with coal. Same with steel.

If Thailand wants to kick out the "cash cows" so be it. But I have this funny suspicion that most of the real cash cows will not be impacted in any way while this will mostly hit on the barstool economic experts who are still grasping onto what Thailand used to be like decades ago.

[TheKnave]

Well good riddance.

That explains your bitterness and the vitriolic diatribe you hand out to those that stand up for the country they live in. This country is far from perfect, but it's been my permanent home for 20 years and I accept the bad with the good. I have no allegiance to this government or any other, and whatever government is running the show makes little or no difference to my life and I doubt it ever will.

There's enjoying Thailand, and then there's joining the 'defend Thailand from criticism at all costs and put down other farang' club.

Why do you and your mentor consider that someone who defends the decision to ban overstayers is a Thai sycophant or anti farang? Assumptions like that just demonstrate ignorance or immaturity. The bottom line is that overstayers piss off many of the 99+% of us visitors that manage to stay within the rules and we have a right to voice an opinion.

No.

Ignorance and immaturity is someone pulling a number like "99+%" out of their fundament, and then appointing themselves spokesperson for that imaginary lot.

Immaturity is also acting as if someone said you don't have a right to YOUR opinion. The only thing is, people who disagree with you will be heard from.

Sorry if that hits one of your 'trigger points', or is a 'microaggression' for you.

Welcome to the world of ideas, and opinions.

Come to think of it, we've heard your opinion on this matter ad nauseam. We get it: you want overstayers punished more severely.

Is there some specific game you are trying to win here? One thing seems clear: you are usually the first to jump on any Immigration rules topic, and the biggest cheerleader for the junta. Why?

You clearly have a good technical grasp of the rules and intricacies of Thai Immigration. If you weren't so obsessed with authoritarianism, you could probably be as helpful to others as the mods here are.

Why be a d!ck?

[Sutty]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

Ridiculous comment , the amount of money the overstays contribute to the Thai economy would be so minuscule it would hardly register, definitely not anything like cash cows, overstays only cause problem for legal people. you can not do it in other countries why in Thailand.

Every plonker in Chiang Mai sitting on a bar stool nursing that one draft beer for two hours thinks he is some sort of "cash cow" for Thailand.

Not that there is anything inherently wrong with being in Chiang Mai, on a barstool, with a beer in front of you....but one needs to keep the perspective of what they are contributing.

I wonder how many of these chronic overstayers are making any sort of significant contribution to Thai society. Because if you have substantial business in Thailand, you're probably the kind of person who makes sure you don't F it all up by getting booted out for an overstay.

Where are all of these mysterious overstayers dumping millions of USD/EUR/GBP into the Thai economy?

Also going back to Jool's original statement:

If Cambodia wants them, let them have them. Why haven't you moved yet?

Forty years ago, Thailand was a different place. Now they're full up and the laws are changing. That's life, man. Nothing stays the same forever.

Forty years ago, good luck getting a long-term visa to stay in Cambodia (even if you wanted to). Now they're welcoming and soliciting expats.

Time change.

Bottom line is that you either adapt to the change or you whine and cry about it.

I'm sure all of the people who used to work in aerospace and couldn't get work in the 1990's felt the same. They can whine about the fact that they were encouraged to get a degree in aerospace or find a new career path, that simple. Same with coal. Same with steel.

If Thailand wants to kick out the "cash cows" so be it. But I have this funny suspicion that most of the real cash cows will not be impacted in any way while this will mostly hit on the barstool economic experts who are still grasping onto what Thailand used to be like decades ago.

So what are you saying leave it to the computer stool need experts who now belive they know everything.

[digibum]

Just don't know why The Immigration chief does not welcome tourists on a 6 month visa without having to leave the country every 60 days one way to get tourists back to thailand!!

How many genuine tourists visit a country for 6 months?

10s of Thousands?

Gap year students of course, but not only. People who want to make a trial run before possibly moving here. Seasonal workers, many hotel/restaurant owners (including a few friends of mine) work a few months a year and spend the rest in the sun. People who take time off work following an inheritance...etc.

Gap year students: Get a multi-entry tourist visa. Problem solved.

Trial Runners: Get a multi-entry tourist visa. Problem solved. Besides, not really a genuine tourist, no? How long is your supposed trial run? Years?

Seasonal workers: Shouldn't be in Thailand on a tourist visa.

Hotel/Restaurant owners: Should be on work permits. Again, not genuine tourists if they live in the country.

People who take time off work: Get a multi-entry tourist visa. Problem solved.

Really, of all the types of people you mentioned, the only "legitimate" long-term tourists are:

Gap year'ers, possibly trial runners and the suddenly wealthy. Now, I don't know what country you're from but as a US citizen, I'm pretty sure that the number of countries where I can stay six months without applying for some sort of long-term visa can be counted on one hand (I'm not even sure they're are any).

The current immigration situation is that you can stay 60 days on a tourist visa and getting a 30 day extension to that is pretty trivial. So that's 90 days. If you got a multi-entry visa then you can leave after your 60 + 30 and come back and do it all over again. So, in essence, you can stay in Thailand for 6 months with a single exit out of the country (if you're a legitimate tourist and your first entry was actually the beginning of your stay in Thailand).

Minus the having to do a border run, that seems pretty gracious compared to many other places around the world.

And if you are a legitimate tourist, how many people stay exclusively in Thailand for six months without leaving the country? Common, not even a trip over to Laos, Cambodia, or Myanmar?

So if you eliminate all of the BS, and the people who should have work permits, it's not really 10's of thousands. The number of people who come to Thailand, truly as a tourist, and stay for six months without ever leaving the country, is likely miniscule.

[Sutty]

It's a good job this site is not a big hitter world wide unless of course you stumble across it by accident. Anyone looking to come to Thailand to live/work/holiday would take a look at a thread like this and say sod that, it's full of whinging old men who I may add I am one of them as I post on here as well. You/we paint such a negative picture of Thailand to other people. When in fact it's a wonderful place. So I've decided I will carry on posting but only in threads that don't have all these negative vibes (Yeh I know not many posts from now on)

[TheKnave]

You're out of your depth.

Believe what you want, but the 'solutions' you propose for the type of person I described (of which there are many) are silly. Investment visa? 10 million baht. Thai Elite? lol...

So you meant to say that any RICH person that wants to stay can get a visa (not that 10 million baht is a lot of money, but it's a barrier to many who could otherwise afford to stay).

Not really interested in the prejudices held by Thai Immigration Officers - I have experienced them first hand, and was not impressed. You keep listening to them, and soon you will be more Thai than anyone on your block.

As for the rest, don't make me embarass you...let's just say I was in Thailand before you could find it on a map...

Cheers.

you're so funny, yup play the I'm here longer than you card, like that has anything to do with anything. If you have been in Thailand so

long and so much older then why are you worried about a 30 something needing a visa, seems you just want to argue and show everyone how long you have been in Thailand.

You made the remark that from my posts, it appeared that I hadn't been in Thailand very long. I answered.

Go back and read your own post. We'll wait.

Plenty of people have been in Thailand longer than I. And I'm sure they disagree with me on many topics. And plenty of people who have been around for a short while know more about things in Thailand. I respect them, equally.

What I don't respect is anyone attempting to jam THEIR opinion down everyone else's throat, pulling fake statistics out of their butts, telling us that Thais want this or that, or like this or that, when it is all a projected confabulation of their own obsessed, and alleged, mind.

Get it?

If you personally know something, share it openly. Express an opinion, but expect to be differed with. And for you, know when to quit...