Man blames rain for smashing van into electric pole on way to pick up tourists

[Pigdog747]

No training, no skill and no thought of driving with the prevailing conditions in mind.

On one occasion driving north n Highway 2 the heavens opened and the wipers on double speed were of no value so I pulled off the road at the first gas station and had a coffee until the rain eased. I have to say that despite the atrocious weather and very limited visibility I was being over and under taken by vehicles travelling at speed with no regard to the conditions.

Once back on the road and over the next 30 kms or so there were about 6 crash scenes all in the outside lane and involving multiple vehicles.

I didn't want to be the one to say this but.....

The UK News on TV, every time there is fog, heavy rain, ice etc........

Same on Spanish TV......(You know the rest!)

and, and, and....

Oh, it happens here too.

Strange that!

It's a worldwide thing, just watch what happens yearly over in North America after the first or second snowfall, Pileups involving upwards of a 100 vehicles including transports etc., drivers with years of experience who has the skills and training to know better but at the moment, failed to be aware of road conditions. You can drive 1,000 km/miles down a snow covered road without a problem but hit one icy/slippery section.... maybe that's what happened here.

[elgordo38]

Yes bad bad rain, they should punish the rain! Does the rain have insurance coverage? if not arrest it, damned rain!

Take a look around you the rain has already been "arrested" I thought international driving rules were that a driver must have control of his vehicle at all times period. In the West when it rains you slow down when it snows you slow down even more and as another poster stated you steer into the skid. Great idea for a new enterprise a safe driving school. Oppps sorry just now realized all Thai's are born safe drivers not taught. Makes me laugh every time I use the crosswalk and the cars come roaring at me I have to point down to the crosswalk to alert them. Of course repainting the zebra would sure help a lot.

[Doc46]

Wow is this the Latest excuse for,,,Oh Shit I can't drive the road is wet,Or Can't drive at all ?

[Redline]

Sunny~the sun was in my eyes

Early~my kid was sick, and kept me up all night

Late~My kid kept me up all night, and I had a hard day at work

Dark~A dog ran out in front of me

...................................................

OK never mind

Have a whiskey and relax

[WhizBang]

The driver should be charged with Stupidity.

No, he should be charged with reckless endangement and should also have had his license revoked, or at least suspended for a lengthy period. He could have hit other cars, motorbikes, pedesterians, or even had passengers in his van. He is a danger to everyone around him.

[emilymat]

Dunno about you guys, but that road in the OP photo looks like one of the better ones in Thailand. I wonder if it was one way. I suspect it was, otherwise he crossed over the centre of the road.

[jerome2]

Good free him so he can do it again with 10 tourists... very smart

[Dap]

Um, by his own admission, he is unable to drive on wet streets,

yet, he is licensed to carry passengers, ooooooooookay. Makes

perfect sense to me

[Ocicat]

By his own admission he can't drive in the rain. Now I've heard it all. Apart from the fact thst he was probably 3 sheets to the wind I guess that is as good an excuse as any. Sometimes I have to wonder------ is it even safe to venture out on these roads in Thailand?

[JAS21]

because the damages "do not justify it".

Maybe something brown and slightly packed swayed the decision .... Banned for a year would be a more suitable course of action .....

[DavisH]

I may cut the guy some slack on this occasion. It's been very dry for a number of weeks so oil and crap builds up on the road. After a bit of rain the roads get very slippery...and loop soapy. I once say it. 6 accidents in a 1 km stretch of road. So it does happen, even to the most competent van drivers

[retell]

he always drives 176 there but now he got off the road because it rains

[bangkapi]

Where I come from, they call it, "Driving too fast for conditions" and it is a ticket-able offense.

[CarolJadzia]

No training, no skill and no thought of driving with the prevailing conditions in mind.

On one occasion driving north n Highway 2 the heavens opened and the wipers on double speed were of no value so I pulled off the road at the first gas station and had a coffee until the rain eased. I have to say that despite the atrocious weather and very limited visibility I was being over and under taken by vehicles travelling at speed with no regard to the conditions.

Once back on the road and over the next 30 kms or so there were about 6 crash scenes all in the outside lane and involving multiple vehicles.

I didn't want to be the one to say this but.....

The UK News on TV, every time there is fog, heavy rain, ice etc........

Same on Spanish TV......(You know the rest!)

and, and, and....

Oh, it happens here too.

Strange that!

It's a worldwide thing, just watch what happens yearly over in North America after the first or second snowfall, Pileups involving upwards of a 100 vehicles including transports etc., drivers with years of experience who has the skills and training to know better but at the moment, failed to be aware of road conditions. You can drive 1,000 km/miles down a snow covered road without a problem but hit one icy/slippery section.... maybe that's what happened here.

How very true that accidents can happen anywhere in the world and are often caused by people being surprised by the conditions.

It is also true that you can make judgments on the standards of most countries driving by the standards required to pass a countries driving licence test.

In the UK you can get a normal car or motorcycle licence after about thirty of forty hours of professional training. Apart from a couple of questions in the theory test, there is no required testing for wet road driving. Or ice and snow. Currently there are moves to get training for night and motorway driving included as they are currently not covered either.

But of course the op is in relation to a PSV or Taxi. Definition of vehicle is important in the UK as if it's classified as a coach the driver will be required to pass a further test that does require better knowledge of what to do in the wet. Some councils require and extra test for Taxi's as well, but that does not cover driving in poor conditions.

But you could argue that all that means is the current way of doing things around the world is wrong as well. Lots of countries have very strict conditions on obtaining a licence but no country has zero accidents. Maybe the current approach is wrong too?

I am a convert to a new approach to road safety, its called 'Safety II' sounds like a corny B movie, but it is well established thinking just recently being applied around the world to road safety.

Mind your Mindset: Safety-I and Safety-II

We look at learning why accidents happen rather than the current "who do we blame" response. For an example of our new way I am working with the guys at No Surprise / No Accident on sharing the new ways of thinking in the UK. A page straight from the website explains the theory well.

No Surprise; a primer

SUMMARY: The ‘old view’ of crashes holds that road users who crash must be lacking in skill or failing to conform to the rules. The ‘new view’ understands the opposite to be a significant factor – that it is only in specific sets of circumstances that where road users are confronted with an unexpected development – prediction failures – that their skills and responses break down. This article offers a primer into the concepts underpinning No Surprise: No Accident.

nosurprise.org.uk/predicting-surprises/

thairoadcraft.wordpress.com

[fiddlehead]

With aprox 1 million people living on this island, and 15-30 million tourists a year (depending on which news source you read), it is pretty spectacular that a van sliding into a pole gets 2 pages of replies. (or even makes the news at all)
Who here has never slid on a rainy, wet surface?
Slow news day for sure!

[sirineou]

With aprox 1 million people living on this island, and 15-30 million tourists a year (depending on which news source you read), it is pretty spectacular that a van sliding into a pole gets 2 pages of replies. (or even makes the news at all)

Who here has never slid on a rainy, wet surface?

Slow news day for sure!

"Who here has never slid on a rainy, wet surface?"

[thailand49]

He is right. What he lacks is the training, or at least some advice on how to deal with such conditions.

Empty van on a wet road. I would estimate three times the braking distance of a normal car, probably s bit more than that with nothing in the back.

Bet nobody has talked to him about cadence braking or just basic stuff like turning into the skid.

When he started to slide he probably just tried to brake a bit harder!

You are correct. I've spoke of this to many Thais and they just look at me like " what are you talking about and like always this is Thailand " Simple education in the teaching booklet, which should be given to the police for learning too would have resulted his issuing a citation for going beyond the speed limit.

Education:

During the first rain after a long period of dry weather is when the road is the most slippery. Remember Oil and water do not mix!

Adjust your driving to the condition at hand... in this case..it was raining! When raining it is normal to go slower, so you need to start earlier, here in Thailand like with these type of Van driver it is one speed fills all!

At night since one can't see as well, one slows down! Just because you can go 120 KM/H means you have too!

The greater the speed the greater the distant it take to stop!

My saying is " what is the hurry to get to your grave, driving is a privilege not a right, getting from point A to B, should be enjoyable not 24/7 road rage pedal to the metal "

[Rimmer]

A couple of off topic posts removed, topic is about a van hitting a power pole in the rain

[Shot]

After a long period without rain, the road does become a little more slick once we get a bit of the wet stuff.

Calling the driver stupid and a bad driver,,,,,,,,,not sure if it's 100% warranted but you keyboard warriors have at it.

And a professional driver should know the road conditions. Right?

[laislica]

Very interesting and good luck with your efforts.

No surprises, like when towing a trailer for the first time and it's overloaded and starts to snake, what to do?

Instinct says apply the brakes, Ooops Fail Big Time!

How to reverse a trailer......

Like using all the mirrors and know what id near you at all times.....

But most of all, keeping within the law, no undertaking.

No wrong way on a motorway or other roads.

No crossing solid lines etc. etc.

INHO, there is a bigger problem than safe riding of bikes.

Safe driving of all vehicles.

The Thai mentality of me first, joining roads without even looking at all and expecting the spirits to take care!

It was mentioned in your video but if you were to ride in the correct road position, you would be rear ended quickly.

The whole driving ethos has to change before there is real safety.

It has to start in schools as you say, but all schools and to the same standard.

TRRL in the UK have known for many years why motorways do that concertina thing of slowing down to a stop for a while and then speeding up to 70 for a while and then back to stop. It's because there are more vehicles than the road is designed for.

The answer is to slow down a little, create a little more space between vehicles and the flow is smoother and the average overall time is shorter.

The trouble is that perception suggests that driving flat out for a short while gets the journey done quicker.

The solution employed on some roads is to have variable speed restrictions, computer control.

When drivers follow the speed given, their journey times reduce.....

Then there is the no roundabouts and U-turn thing!.....

Not to mention the dreadfully long times to wait at traffic lights because the phasing and timings are not optimised.

Thank goodness that many have the green count down indications.

Many years ago in Nigeria, I observed that with the few traffic lights they then had.

People would stop or drive very slowly on a green because of the fear that folk would steam through the red.

To the point where, practically, red meant go and green stop!

See any similarities here LOL

Good luck but I suspect you have a very hard long journey before driving in Thailand is safer.

Thank you for your comment but I will note a couple of things.

It could be argued that the count-down clocks on traffic lights are counter productive. They give a wonderful count down for drag racing and also I see people thinking they cannot be bothered to wait that long for the lights to change. Green should only ever mean proceed with caution if your way is clear. In any country it is foolish to assume a right of way on the strength of a green light.

You mention wanting to make people conform, that is the opposite of what we feel is needed. We propose a move away from the Authoritarian approach to safety.

I know many in Thailand value the freedom the country offers them over more authoritarian regimes, in respect to certain aspects of Thailand at least. The ongoing calls for enforcement have had little effect over the past twenty years. Suggesting more of the same will suddenly start to work only proves the point that the current ways do not work.

Most of us in democratic countries would hate to see the rise authoritarianism. When we hear about authoritarian regimes around the world, we feel lucky not to live there. We know that people do not thrive under authoritarianism, where high levels of control suppress the human connectivity, freedom and creativity that give meaning and purpose to life. The same is true of organisations, but here we seem to have to put up with it.

Recovery from Command-and-Control: A Twelve-Step Program

I agree that a rise authoritarianism is undesirable (Singapore did it....)

About traffic lights. In the UK there are legal maximum red times and minimum green times and using VA (the best in my opinion) the length of time at red will vary so keeping drivers on their toes. You can experiance VA best in the early hours in a city with little traffic. As you approach a red, it quickly changes to green and if you keep to the speed, you will often get a green wave where the lights turn green just before you approach them,

Red times here can be more than 1-2 minutes which is just madness and people react badly to that as you mentioned.

The timings at the lights don't seem to change to reflect the time of day of day of the week etc - I'm only guessing but it feels like that.

Thus the timings are known and people will rush to get across and this causes red jumping etc.

The bikers golden rule at the lights: Never be the first, or last to enter the box.

(Well it was way back when I rode big bikes he he)

What struck me about the video was that a chap went on the wrong side of a dual carriageway to save the few extra metres that you needed.

Thai culture and something we wouldn't dare to do in Europe!

Something talked about regularly on this forum is that rules are not enforced and when they have a crack down the penalties are trivial.

Thai's seem to be very money and luck orientated.

Thus making it unlucky by enforcing more and applying a meaningful penalty might work.

It's never really been tried before!

For the new year they were going to impound the vehicles of drunk drivers/riders, thouble is there is no follow up to the results......

It's all just a crazy game?

Life is cheap, lose one, just go and make another.....

Unhappily, that really does seem to be Thai culture.

Good luck.

[CarolJadzia]

I agree that a rise authoritarianism is undesirable (Singapore did it....)

About traffic lights. In the UK there are legal maximum red times and minimum green times and using VA (the best in my opinion) the length of time at red will vary so keeping drivers on their toes. You can experiance VA best in the early hours in a city with little traffic. As you approach a red, it quickly changes to green and if you keep to the speed, you will often get a green wave where the lights turn green just before you approach them,

Red times here can be more than 1-2 minutes which is just madness and people react badly to that as you mentioned.

The timings at the lights don't seem to change to reflect the time of day of day of the week etc - I'm only guessing but it feels like that.

Thus the timings are known and people will rush to get across and this causes red jumping etc.

The bikers golden rule at the lights: Never be the first, or last to enter the box.

(Well it was way back when I rode big bikes he he)

What struck me about the video was that a chap went on the wrong side of a dual carriageway to save the few extra metres that you needed.

Thai culture and something we wouldn't dare to do in Europe!

Something talked about regularly on this forum is that rules are not enforced and when they have a crack down the penalties are trivial.

Thai's seem to be very money and luck orientated.

Thus making it unlucky by enforcing more and applying a meaningful penalty might work.

It's never really been tried before!

For the new year they were going to impound the vehicles of drunk drivers/riders, thouble is there is no follow up to the results......

It's all just a crazy game?

Life is cheap, lose one, just go and make another.....

Unhappily, that really does seem to be Thai culture.

Good luck.

You appear to hold the UK in high esteem, I can assure you that your impressions are incorrect. This is not the place to go through the intricacies of all the issues. But for example it is completely wrong to assume that everyone goes round adhering to the speed limits, simply does not happen. In fact the opposite has happened. Over the past 50 years as enforcement has toughened so have bike top speeds now doubled. (To read more see 'Riding By the Rules')

You might have heard recently of 'Dismaland' an exhibition by Banksy. I went to the closing night. Big traffic jam outside when it finished, I watched 20 cars go the wrong way down a one way street to avoid the jam.

We can also talk about 'puffin crossings' that are supposed to sense when people have finished crossing, only often the sensors do not work and leave drivers waiting longer than necessary. Or how about the traffic light enforcement cameras that were wrongly flashing people who went through on amber because they were turning.

People loose control of their vehicles on UK roads every day. These things happen all over the world. Especially when people are 'surprised' by unusual situations.

The OP blames the rain, he is right. What he did not know was how to address the changing conditions. Very few people have actually had advanced skid pan training anywhere.

Have you? I have never formally had any, not generally available for motorcycle instructors. But I have had lots of practice of riding and teaching in the rain. Did the driver in the OP know that roads are more dangerous when it rains after a long dry spell? Had anyone even pointed out to him that a van will go light at the back end due to the lack of weight?

Is he the regular driver? If he was he should have had plenty of experience of driving in the wet. Question is what was different about this time?

[laislica]

I agree that a rise authoritarianism is undesirable (Singapore did it....)

About traffic lights. In the UK there are legal maximum red times and minimum green times and using VA (the best in my opinion) the length of time at red will vary so keeping drivers on their toes. You can experiance VA best in the early hours in a city with little traffic. As you approach a red, it quickly changes to green and if you keep to the speed, you will often get a green wave where the lights turn green just before you approach them,

Red times here can be more than 1-2 minutes which is just madness and people react badly to that as you mentioned.

The timings at the lights don't seem to change to reflect the time of day of day of the week etc - I'm only guessing but it feels like that.

Thus the timings are known and people will rush to get across and this causes red jumping etc.

The bikers golden rule at the lights: Never be the first, or last to enter the box.

(Well it was way back when I rode big bikes he he)

What struck me about the video was that a chap went on the wrong side of a dual carriageway to save the few extra metres that you needed.

Thai culture and something we wouldn't dare to do in Europe!

Something talked about regularly on this forum is that rules are not enforced and when they have a crack down the penalties are trivial.

Thai's seem to be very money and luck orientated.

Thus making it unlucky by enforcing more and applying a meaningful penalty might work.

It's never really been tried before!

For the new year they were going to impound the vehicles of drunk drivers/riders, thouble is there is no follow up to the results......

It's all just a crazy game?

Life is cheap, lose one, just go and make another.....

Unhappily, that really does seem to be Thai culture.

Good luck.

You appear to hold the UK in high esteem, I can assure you that your impressions are incorrect. This is not the place to go through the intricacies of all the issues. But for example it is completely wrong to assume that everyone goes round adhering to the speed limits, simply does not happen. In fact the opposite has happened. Over the past 50 years as enforcement has toughened so have bike top speeds now doubled. (To read more see 'Riding By the Rules')

You might have heard recently of 'Dismaland' an exhibition by Banksy. I went to the closing night. Big traffic jam outside when it finished, I watched 20 cars go the wrong way down a one way street to avoid the jam.

We can also talk about 'puffin crossings' that are supposed to sense when people have finished crossing, only often the sensors do not work and leave drivers waiting longer than necessary. Or how about the traffic light enforcement cameras that were wrongly flashing people who went through on amber because they were turning.

People loose control of their vehicles on UK roads every day. These things happen all over the world. Especially when people are 'surprised' by unusual situations.

The OP blames the rain, he is right. What he did not know was how to address the changing conditions. Very few people have actually had advanced skid pan training anywhere.

Have you? I have never formally had any, not generally available for motorcycle instructors. But I have had lots of practice of riding and teaching in the rain. Did the driver in the OP know that roads are more dangerous when it rains after a long dry spell? Had anyone even pointed out to him that a van will go light at the back end due to the lack of weight?

Is he the regular driver? If he was he should have had plenty of experience of driving in the wet. Question is what was different about this time?

<Snip>This is not the place to go through the intricacies of all the issues. But for example it is completely wrong to assume that everyone goes round adhering to the speed limits,<Snip>

I quite agree and you can see that I never said that they keep to the speed in the UK. I was talking about signals operating in VA Mode nad reds only for short and variable times.

In addition to wet roads as I'm sure you know, sand or fine gravel is possibly worse.

Not to mention oil and rubber and dust that turns into a grease like substance with the first wetting after a long dry spell.

Tires harden much faster in the conditions here and that is another factor..

Thais have a general resistance to help from outside countries.

They already know all there is to know.

Did you know that electricity in Thailand is not the same as in your home country?

and they honestly believe that!

How to stop flooding - ask a Dutchman? No use propellers and push the water upstream.

Honest!

You'll see.

Good luck.

[CarolJadzia]

In addition to wet roads as I'm sure you know, sand or fine gravel is possibly worse.

Not to mention oil and rubber and dust that turns into a grease like substance with the first wetting after a long dry spell.

Tires harden much faster in the conditions here and that is another factor..

Thais have a general resistance to help from outside countries.

They already know all there is to know.

Did you know that electricity in Thailand is not the same as in your home country?

and they honestly believe that!

How to stop flooding - ask a Dutchman? No use propellers and push the water upstream.

Honest!

You'll see.

Good luck.

Cheers and understood.

Like not talking about a shooting star because if you do it will deliver the baby it's carrying to a dog rather than a human and Thailand has too many dogs already.

It is easy to stereotype. Not all Thai's are the same. Many do want to learn about advanced defensive riding and the numbers are growing.

Sometimes it's the approach that's wrong. Thais do not like confrontation or suggesting they have done wrong. So to work with them requires a different approach.

Guy lost control can and will happen again, how can we lesson the chances of that?