"Abandoning" a retirement visa and applying for a new one

[partington]

Thank you for correcting me.As i said,i do not wish to disagree with those more knowledgeable than i.But these people are in Pattaya and Phuket.They've been here for a long time,some for years.And most of them are not skint.However,i bend to the op's who do everything legally.But legal or not legal,these guy's obtained their visa's and are still here. Obviously they are not following the legal path(for whatever reason's,best known to them)but spending the money(what ever it is) would appear not to seem a problem for them.I suppose it's a case of 'Any way you can"

Thanx again

KKD

P.S. I have not been living here for very long and have not joined the Ferang community here,so i do not know of anyone here who has gone down the path of which i speak,low paid,low on fund's.legal or not.

KKD

You and probably they are simply not understanding what is going on, and so getting confused. They are not doing anything illegal, and they are not getting "visas".

To put it simply: a "visa" is a permission to enter the country at a border, either once, for a "single entry visa", or a number of times for a "multi-entry visa". Attached to each entry is a period of "permission to stay". This is 90 days for a single entry non-O visa. Once you have used a single entry visa once you cannot use it again as an entry permission, though you can stay 90 days.

You can apply within Thailand towards the end of that 90 days for permission to stay longer than the 90 days you were originally given. This is called an "application for extension of permission to stay". If you meet the criteria for an extension on the grounds of retirement (older than 50, 800K baht in the bank etc), you can apply to be allowed to stay an extra year. Then you can keep doing it every year.

Doing this procedure is NOT an application for an "O-A visa", or a "renewal of a visa", or a "retirement visa": a visa is permission to enter the country, and if you have been granted the extension permission for a year you do not have a visa any more, it has expired. You will find this out if you leave and try to re-enter. As you don't have a valid visa they will cancel your extension permission and you will be admitted for 30 days only, like any EEC person arriving without a visa.

The "O-A visa" is a special kind of visa, often called a retirement visa. It is a proper visa in that you can ONLY apply for it outside Thailand, in the place where you live. It is special because it is multi-entry, and each time you use it to enter you are given a permission to stay of one year, not 90 days. The visa is VALID for one year, that is you can use it as permission to enter the country during a period of one year. Because each entry gives you a "permission to stay " period of one year, if you enter the country on the last day it is valid, you can still stay for a whole year. This is how you get two years stay from a non- Imm O-A. However during this second year you do not have a valid visa either because it has expired. If you leave now you will lose the year because when you come back you will be treated like anyone without a visa and be given a 30 days permission to stay (visa waiver entry).

This is why people buy "re-entry permits"- when you have a year permission to stay, BUT NO VISA, buying a re-entry permit takes the place of a valid visa and you will be allowed back into the country with your "extended permission to stay" period intact.

[lopburi3]

The almost "two years" originally referred to, that seems to have generated confusion, is probably the original poster's obtaining a reentry permit near the end of his enter before date.

Multiple O-A's have accomodated me, among other particulars, for extensive periods back in the USA and I have done so my entire retirement here so far with only ever having to make one trip to the Suan Plu office,

The almost two years refers to fact that any entry from a multi entry non immigrant O-A visa gets a one year permitted to stay from that date of entry - as the visa is valid for entry for a time of one year from issue you can enter just before it expires and obtain a new stay for a one year period from that date. Thus you would only require a new O-A visa from your home country about every two years if used in this manner.

[sanukjim]

Yes,3 3 1/2 years ago I had been on a retirement visas for 10 years and had to go back for a business for 10 months.Got a year visa at home and came back.After 3 months reapplied and received another retirement visa,no problem.

[SpokaneAl]

Yes,3 3 1/2 years ago I had been on a retirement visas for 10 years and had to go back for a business for 10 months.Got a year visa at home and came back.After 3 months reapplied and received another retirement visa,no problem.

It sounds like what you really mean is that for ten years you were in Thailand on a series of one year extension of stays for the purpose of retirement, and each year you obtained a new extension of stay.

Then when you returned to your home country due to business you applied for and received a non imm o visa, which was good for 90 days. Then, prior to that visa expiring you applied for and received a new one year extension of stay, for the purpose of retirement, and started, once again, the cycle of obtaining one year extension of stays for the purpose of retirement.

The preciseness of terms and definitions matter.

Edited February 1, 2016 by SpokaneAl

[sunnyjim5]

Yes,3 3 1/2 years ago I had been on a retirement visas for 10 years and had to go back for a business for 10 months.Got a year visa at home and came back.After 3 months reapplied and received another retirement visa,no problem.

"After 3 months reapplied and received another retirement visa,no problem." ?

If you had a one year visa why, after 3 months, did you apply for another "visa" ?

Are you sure that a "visa" was applied for and issued, if so where was the "visa" obtained ?

[Craig krup]

Do you realise that you could apply for an "extension of stay" based on retirement?

All that is needed is 800,000 Bht deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months or evidence, certified by your Embassy, of an income of 65,000 Bht/month.

Yes

There's a school of thought that the difference in cost between extension and total renewal is a price worth paying to avoid "currency speculation for beginners", or "Here are all my financial details, relatively poor person".

[NeoDinosaw]

Do you realise that you could apply for an "extension of stay" based on retirement?

All that is needed is 800,000 Bht deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months or evidence, certified by your Embassy, of an income of 65,000 Bht/month.

[NeoDinosaw]

You mean 'OR' income of 65,000 Bht/month - yes ? If you have the income, there is no need for the 800,000 in the bank.

I do this every year by presenting evidence of my income to the British Consulate who then give me a letter from them to the Immigration people. I then present this will the requisite forms and get the 'visa' (or extension of stay) for another year. It is very simple. Immigration at Hua Hin are very helpful and I have never been asked for any donation to a charity of their choice nor for any palm-greasing.

[sunnyjim5]

You mean 'OR' income of 65,000 Bht/month - yes ? If you have the income, there is no need for the 800,000 in the bank.

I do this every year by presenting evidence of my income to the British Consulate who then give me a letter from them to the Immigration people. I then present this will the requisite forms and get the 'visa' (or extension of stay) for another year. It is very simple. Immigration at Hua Hin are very helpful and I have never been asked for any donation to a charity of their choice nor for any palm-greasing.

Maybe you failed to read what was written ?

"All that is needed is 800,000 Bht deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months or evidence, certified by your Embassy, of an income of 65,000 Bht/month."

I mentioned the OR but next time I will ensure the word capitalised and underlined.

[BritTim]

O-A Visa is only available in your own country, not in Bangkok.

Not according to the websites I mentioned... did you check?

Source 1.

1. Applicants can submit their applications at the Royal Thai Embassy or Royal Consulates in UK and

Ireland. Or

2. The Office of the Immigration Bureau, Section 1, Sub-Division 1, Immigration Bureau,

Soi Suan Plu, off South Sathorn Road, Sathon District, Bangkok 10120. Tel. 0066-22873101-10 Ext.2236

Source 2.

3. Channels to submit application

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

IMHO, this is a very interesting post that is being dismissed too easily. It does seem quite distinct from extensions. Reading the sources carefully, I do think the application must be done while outside Thailand (excluding special cases) but the application may be possible without returning to home country (assuming you can get the paperwork without going there). It seems you can make a postal application for approval. My guess is that this has very rarely, if ever, been done. I further speculate that following approval of a postal application, you get get the visa put in your passport on entry at the airport (similar to the way it works with TE visas).

[ubonjoe]

O-A Visa is only available in your own country, not in Bangkok.

Not according to the websites I mentioned... did you check?

Source 1.

1. Applicants can submit their applications at the Royal Thai Embassy or Royal Consulates in UK and

Ireland. Or

2. The Office of the Immigration Bureau, Section 1, Sub-Division 1, Immigration Bureau,

Soi Suan Plu, off South Sathorn Road, Sathon District, Bangkok 10120. Tel. 0066-22873101-10 Ext.2236

Source 2.

3. Channels to submit application

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

IMHO, this is a very interesting post that is being dismissed too easily. It does seem quite distinct from extensions. Reading the sources carefully, I do think the application must be done while outside Thailand (excluding special cases) but the application may be possible without returning to home country (assuming you can get the paperwork without going there). It seems you can make a postal application for approval. My guess is that this has very rarely, if ever, been done. I further speculate that following approval of a postal application, you get get the visa put in your passport on entry at the airport (similar to the way it works with TE visas).

The OA visa can only be applied for at an embassy or official consulate. Whether done in person or by mail the visa is put in your passport before it is returned to you.

The other part about applying for it here is just wrong. You can only apply for an extension of stay at immigration here,

[Dan5]

Yes, obtaining serial O-A visas is possible and some do it.

Each application is a separate thing and if you qualify, no reason you can't keep doing that indefinitely.

O-A visas are obtained in home countries.

Why you want to do it that way is your business.

Next ...

And apparently in Bangkok, according to USA and UK Thai consular websites.

O-A Visa is only available in your own country, not in Bangkok.

I got my original retirement visa while I was in Thailand. But that was quite a few years ago. Maybe things have changed.

[jacksam]

You must of obtain a non imm O based on retirement. Then every 12 months obtained an extension of stay. OA is obtained in your own country. In fact your non imm O would have been converted from say a tourist visa or obtained outside of thailand

[Jingthing]

Yes, obtaining serial O-A visas is possible and some do it.

Each application is a separate thing and if you qualify, no reason you can't keep doing that indefinitely.

O-A visas are obtained in home countries.

Why you want to do it that way is your business.

Next ...

And apparently in Bangkok, according to USA and UK Thai consular websites.

O-A Visa is only available in your own country, not in Bangkok.

I got my original retirement visa while I was in Thailand. But that was quite a few years ago. Maybe things have changed.

O-A visas never possible in Thailand.

[BritTim]

O-A Visa is only available in your own country, not in Bangkok.

Not according to the websites I mentioned... did you check?

Source 1.

1. Applicants can submit their applications at the Royal Thai Embassy or Royal Consulates in UK and

Ireland. Or

2. The Office of the Immigration Bureau, Section 1, Sub-Division 1, Immigration Bureau,

Soi Suan Plu, off South Sathorn Road, Sathon District, Bangkok 10120. Tel. 0066-22873101-10 Ext.2236

Source 2.

3. Channels to submit application

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

IMHO, this is a very interesting post that is being dismissed too easily. It does seem quite distinct from extensions. Reading the sources carefully, I do think the application must be done while outside Thailand (excluding special cases) but the application may be possible without returning to home country (assuming you can get the paperwork without going there). It seems you can make a postal application for approval. My guess is that this has very rarely, if ever, been done. I further speculate that following approval of a postal application, you get get the visa put in your passport on entry at the airport (similar to the way it works with TE visas).

The OA visa can only be applied for at an embassy or official consulate. Whether done in person or by mail the visa is put in your passport before it is returned to you.

The other part about applying for it here is just wrong. You can only apply for an extension of stay at immigration here,

So, just to clarify, you are saying the MFA and UK Embassy websites are just plain wrong. To put information about Bangkok immigration under applications for O-A visas states that something is available that does not exist. This is not a complete shock, given incorrect information I have seen on official Thai websites in the past, but it is curious that both sites state clearly in different ways that an O-A visa can be applied for through Bangkok immigration, and one of these sources even gives the exceptional circumstances under which it can be done inside Thailand.

[Jingthing]

If it says you can get an O-A, specifically an O-A in Thailand, yes, absolutely 100 percent wrong.

Because you CANNOT. Period. End of story.

You got your answer. That is REALLY the answer.

HOWEVER in Thailand you CAN enter on a tourist visa and do a CONVERSION to a 90 day O visa (this is NOT an O-A visa) and with that apply for an annual extension based on retirement (also NOT an O-A visa).

O-A visas are a SPECIFIC type of visa. They have a specific application process, obtained in home countries or other than Thailand permanent residence countries ONLY and they can be USED differently (while still valid) than O visas which are not O-A and also annual retirement extensions which are also not O-A.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Jingthing

[jacko45k]

That is all very well jingthing but the websites clearly state it is possible and hence, by your claim are misleading, particularly for people in these countries who may decide to fly here and submit applications rather than do it at home.

This all came about by me talking to someone who claims he did it this way, ultimately I presumed he got it wrong and had done a conversion and extension.

There is even some text stating medical reasons can also get the Visa..

3. The following applicants may also apply for this type of visa in the country if:

1. Applicants undergoing health rehabilitation program in hospitals or health centers. These organizations will apply on behalf of the individual applicant.
2. Applicants who are spouse / parents / children of applicants above.
3. Applicants to whom the agencies or organizations approved by the Immigration Bureau have applied for visa on behalf. The above mentioned applicants must have qualifications stated in 1-2.

You stated..

If it says you can get an O-A, specifically an O-A in Thailand, yes, absolutely 100 percent wrong.

I can only say perhaps you did not read it as it does appear to say that.... my best guess is they really mean an extension (and conversion to 90 day Non Imm O if needed) too.

Edited February 1, 2016 by jacko45k

[BritTim]

That is all very well jingthing but the websites clearly state it is possible and hence, by your claim are misleading, particularly for people in these countries who may decide to fly here and submit applications rather than do it at home.

This all came about by me talking to someone who claims he did it this way, ultimately I presumed he got it wrong and had done a conversion and extension.

There is even some text stating medical reasons can also get the Visa..

3. The following applicants may also apply for this type of visa in the country if:

1. Applicants undergoing health rehabilitation program in hospitals or health centers. These organizations will apply on behalf of the individual applicant.

2. Applicants who are spouse / parents / children of applicants above.

3. Applicants to whom the agencies or organizations approved by the Immigration Bureau have applied for visa on behalf. The above mentioned applicants must have qualifications stated in 1-2.

You stated..

If it says you can get an O-A, specifically an O-A in Thailand, yes, absolutely 100 percent wrong.

I can only say perhaps you did not read it as it does appear to say that.... my best guess is they really mean an extension (and conversion to 90 day Non Imm O if needed) too.

I can only say perhaps you did not read it as it does appear to say that.... my best guess is they really mean an extension (and conversion to 90 day Non Imm O if needed) too.

Perhaps so, but none of the stated exceptional circumstances for receiving the visa?/extension? are necessary when applying for a conversion to Non-O and extension. It seems the pages ought to have a disclaimer saying the information on this page is a load of <deleted> and you should check before taking any actions based on it.

Just maybe, the information on the website reflected something that was planned but never implemented, ending up on the MFA and embassy websites anyway.

[lopburi3]

The O-A is a combination of non immigrant O visa for entry and an extension of stay issued by MFA at a Consulate overseas and is called a long stay visa. Inside Thailand you extend a non immigrant entry for purpose of retirement (and it is marked retirement as reason). There is officially no visa with the name retirement. But retirement is a valid reason to issue a long stay visa or extension of stay.

As for misinformation - we likely only have to look at our own country Embassy web sites to find errors and poor choice of language - do not believe we can hold Thailand to a higher standard. Confusing as it may be. I still have issues with pounds being both weight and money.

[Jingthing]

An O-A isn't a "combination" of anything.

An O-A visa is a very specific type of O visa.

ONLY obtained in home country or other than Thailand permanent residence country.

Entering on an O-A gives a year "Long Stay"

You get an ADDITIONAL one year stay on EACH re-entry for the initial VALIDITY period of that O-A visa.

That's one of the great advantages of choosing the OPTION of using an O-A visa, often referred to as with phrases like you -- it's good for about a TWO YEAR stay (if used well).

A "combination" of an O an extension of say DOES NOT ALLOW THAT!

People starting with an O-A (an OPTION, never required) can LATER start applying for annual extensions based on retirement when needed the same as the people who started with an O (NOT O-A) visa.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Jingthing

[jacksam]

Exactly Jingthing. Also to few that missed it the OA is a multi entry so unlike O , you do not require a reentry permit. Because I leave los every week or so , the non imm O means I need 2 reentry permits. One for the O and another for the 12 extension. The OA has its advantages

Edited February 2, 2016 by jacksam

[lopburi3]

Actually it is a combination of a visa type O and a pre approved one year extension of stay on entry (and in the case of multi entry each entry gets a new one year stay). It was normally issued as single entry and users often lost it as they traveled without obtaining re-entry permit so for last few years most are only issued as multi entry option (at the higher price). As originally started it required waiting on immigration approval of the extension portion before being issued by Embassy.

[Jingthing]

I don't think it helps communicate correct terminology to call an O-A a combination.

So many people who have O visas or retirement extensions actually believe they have an O-A visa or a retirement visa.

The clearest way to talk about these things here is call them EXACTLY what they actually are:

O visa (single or multiple entry) (this is not an O-A and not a retirement visa)

Annual extensions based on retirement (this is not an O-A and not a retirement visa)

OPTIONAL PATH:

O-A visa, officially referred to as "Long Stay" visas but also arguably CAN also be called a retirement visa

[jacksam]

Regardless of if you go the O or OA path you will eventually end up on 12 month extensions. You won't have a visa you have permission to stay. The O visa lasts 90 days. As pointed out. The OA 12 months. If you exit just prior to the enter befor date you receive another 12 months. The op for his own reasons might wish to return to home country and obtain fresh OA

[SpokaneAl]

I don't think it helps communicate correct terminology to call an O-A a combination.

So many people who have O visas or retirement extensions actually believe they have an O-A visa or a retirement visa.

The clearest way to talk about these things here is call them EXACTLY what they actually are:

O visa (single or multiple entry) (this is not an O-A and not a retirement visa)

Annual extensions based on retirement (this is not an O-A and not a retirement visa)

OPTIONAL PATH:

O-A visa, officially referred to as "Long Stay" visas but also arguably CAN also be called a retirement visa

I agree and continue to be amazed at the pushback every time a discussion on correct, precise terms is generated. If one visits a doctor, lawyer, mechanic, financial advisor or a multitude of others where precision is critical in diagnosing, analyzing and rectifying, why should sloppiness be applauding here where OPs are hoping for the same type of precise help, even as responders strive to understand and offer advice?

[jacksam]

Agree. I think ONE thing that confuses some, is when they stamp your extension to say non O. In rather small print is "extension of stay permitted up till"

Then much bigger print is word RETIREMENT. The EXTENSION is based on retirement. Along with other reasons for extension, could perhaps be marriage to thai etc.

[mlkik]

I intend applying for a METV and when I am 50 I want to stay in Thailand the reason being retirement. Do I understand correctly that at the time I am 50 I can go to Jomtien Immigration and convert my METV into something that allows me to then stay for another year and then I would need to renew ?

[Jingthing]

I intend applying for a METV and when I am 50 I want to stay in Thailand the reason being retirement. Do I understand correctly that at the time I am 50 I can go to Jomtien Immigration and convert my METV into something that allows me to then stay for another year and then I would need to renew ?

Well, that's a tourist visa.

You can convert that to a 90 day O visa but last I heard you need to go to Bangkok for that, but maybe Jomtien will send it to Bangkok for you, not sure of the current local policy.

Then with that 90 day O visa (obtained IN THAILAND) during the last 30 days of that stay, then apply for annual extension based on retirement at Jomtien.

You will need proof of financial qualifications for BOTH applications. That's two things. First, conversion to O. Second, annual extension.

You can then keep applying for annual retirement extensions as long as you stay in Thailand. (For life under current rules.)

Edited February 2, 2016 by Jingthing

[mlkik]

I intend applying for a METV and when I am 50 I want to stay in Thailand the reason being retirement. Do I understand correctly that at the time I am 50 I can go to Jomtien Immigration and convert my METV into something that allows me to then stay for another year and then I would need to renew ?

Well, that's a tourist visa.

You can convert that to a 90 day O visa but last I heard you need to go to Bangkok for that, but maybe Jomtien will send it to Bangkok for you, not sure of the current local policy.

Then with that 90 day O visa (obtained IN THAILAND) during the last 30 days of that stay, then apply for annual extension based on retirement at Jomtien.

You will need proof of financial qualifications for BOTH applications. That's two things. First, conversion to O. Second, annual extension.

You can then keep applying for annual retirement extensions as long as you stay in Thailand. (For life under current rules.)

I have 1 million in a Bangkok Bank account that I will not be touching. This was transfered by TT from a UK bank account. Would I have to wait until I am 50 before I convert my METV to a 90 day O visa.

Also when I am granted an annual extension do I have to leave the country every 90 days ? Or just report my address to Immigration ?

[Jingthing]

Yes, you do have to wait until you're 50.

On annual retirement extensions you do not need to EVER leave Thailand. Yes, you do need to do 90 day address reports.

That bank account situation sounds rock solid.

If you do need to go to Bangkok for conversion which would be a hassle, consider there is an alternative.

You could take a fun trip to either Penang Malaysia or Vientiane Laos and get a single entry O visa there (Thai consulate and embassy respectively) based on being over 50 and financially qualified.

It's the same effect in your passport. A single entry 90 day O visa which you do need for the second step, the retirement extension.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Jingthing