Elephant kills Scottish tourist on Koh Samui

[canuckamuck]

First mistake is using male elephants with tourists. You'll find most, if not all the accounts of elephant attacks in Thailand involve male elephants.

Second mistake is the level of training and intelligence of the mahouts.

But perhaps they feel that losing a tourist or two every year to angry elephants is a reasonable cost of doing business.

Both male and female elephants are known to attack people .

A "broken" elephant is already psychologically damaged.....

what I think you are referring to is "musth" which is a period that affects male elephants and can make them extremely unpredictable and aggressive - not just to humns but anything including other elephants.

As yet I've not read anything to suggest this elephant was in musth.......it also depends on the age of the elephant

Well I said 'most' so you hardly needed to make your point. And the fact that females do not undergo must, makes them the logical choice as it is much more unlikely they will become unpredictable and enraged from a simple elephant ride.

[cumgranosalum]

Will there be an inquiry?

Probably the local police (animal experts?) will chat to the "keeper"; they may even blame the keeper...or the owner but then conclude "it was just one of those things"

It would be nice to think that some effort is made to learn from this event....wishful thinking?

Edited February 2, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

Somehow I think those elephant jokes have run their course. Don't people know when to stop?

Edited February 2, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Muggi1968]

So sad...

My Thai friends always warn me about riding elephants.

They tell me elephants are dangerous, unpredictable and get annoyed easy.

I guess they forget to tell the tourist's ...

[sawadee1947]

..teasing a wild animal...? He got his bill...unfortunately. Where were the Mahut at that time? Poor Scot and terrible for his daughter....RIP

[leeneeds]

Never know when your time is up in the jungle,

RIP

[worgeordie]

The Elephant was hot and tired,probably worked too hard,and

just got fed up with been poked with a sharp stick,who can blame

it getting pissed off, they are not dumb animals,like they say

Elephants never forget,and it was most likely just remembering

past abuses.

regards Worgeordie

[kiwikeith]

In other reports it's the mahout who's at fault:

http://www.farang-deaths.com/case/gareth-crowe/

Seems that the report linked is more sensical.

1/ Why do these parks need cheap Burmese labor to ride Elephants ? (greedy profiteering)

2/ Why isn't there a review into safety after quite a few have died lately.

I know that the whole industry would be shut down in many other countries until safety proceedures and training measures were put in place.

The animal would also be destroyed, At fault? probably provoked daily with hooks in the head but if it's killed it cant be used again.

Will we ever see these places shut down until a proper review is done?? (probably not) after all the victim will be back in thirty days.

Money will prevail, useing cheap labor to ride these Elephants is a joke and another Blot on Cheap Charlie Thailand , what do they save? a few hunderd BHT a day? ,they charge enough for these death rides.

I myself took my young son on one in Hua HIn, I could sense that the Elephant was agitated and frooze a couple of times as it wanted to graze, only to get a hook in the head which clearly pissed it off.

I was glad to get off it, it is another time Bomb waiting to happen for the next unfortunate tourist and clearly is to blame on the governments failure to enforce proper training and anti animal cruelty laws.

[CoreanoOzzie]

Never tease elephants. What a bad way to go.

[SunsetT]

First mistake is using male elephants with tourists. You'll find most, if not all the accounts of elephant attacks in Thailand involve male elephants.

Second mistake is the level of training and intelligence of the mahouts.

But perhaps they feel that losing a tourist or two every year to angry elephants is a reasonable cost of doing business.

Both male and female elephants are known to attack people .

A "broken" elephant is already psychologically damaged.....

what I think you are referring to is "musth" which is a period that affects male elephants and can make them extremely unpredictable and aggressive - not just to humns but anything including other elephants.

As yet I've not read anything to suggest this elephant was in musth.......it also depends on the age of the elephant

........Wongsiri Promchana, the Surat Thani governor, said a mahout at Island Safari Tour Co, which operated the trekking tour, said Golf had shown signs similar to being on musth two days ago and the hot weather during the ride today may have upset the jumbo.

DELETED quoted on: http://www.farang-deaths.com/

Edited February 2, 2016 by seedy
Quote Bangkok Post

[Thian]

The mahout hit the elephant several times with a hook to calm it down/discipline it!

It then went berserk.

Oh those hooks who can pull their ear with a sharp point. The other side of it has a sharp point they stick behind the ear into the head.

If i was an elephant i also wouldn't except that, surprisingly most elephants accept this punishment except this one.

[soalbundy]

The mahout hit the elephant several times with a hook to calm it down/discipline it!

It then went berserk.

Oh those hooks who can pull their ear with a sharp point. The other side of it has a sharp point they stick behind the ear into the head.

If i was an elephant i also wouldn't except that, surprisingly most elephants accept this punishment except this one.

They exhibit the same acceptance to conditioning as human's. When an elephant is a baby you have to tie it to a strong tree, when it's an adult a dried out bush will do

[cumgranosalum]

First mistake is using male elephants with tourists. You'll find most, if not all the accounts of elephant attacks in Thailand involve male elephants.

Second mistake is the level of training and intelligence of the mahouts.

But perhaps they feel that losing a tourist or two every year to angry elephants is a reasonable cost of doing business.

Both male and female elephants are known to attack people .

A "broken" elephant is already psychologically damaged.....

what I think you are referring to is "musth" which is a period that affects male elephants and can make them extremely unpredictable and aggressive - not just to humns but anything including other elephants.

As yet I've not read anything to suggest this elephant was in musth.......it also depends on the age of the elephant

Well I said 'most' so you hardly needed to make your point. And the fact that females do not undergo must, makes them the logical choice as it is much more unlikely they will become unpredictable and enraged from a simple elephant ride.

No - I'm sorry you give the impression that females don't attack...this is not true and even "most" is debatable. You are making baseless assumptions about elephant behaviour and thus giving misleading information. Elephants do NOT have to be in musth to attack in fact they usually aren't.

elephants on must are usually isolated.....chained even and give definite signs they are in this state.

[Lupatria]

They say elephants have a brilliant memory. If Golf grew up like the one in the video, I'm not surprised. I have no sympathy neither for the business operators of such tours, the mahouts or the stupid people who think it is OK to ride an elephant who will only let this happen because of cruel "spirit breaking training".

https://youtu.be/eptePMQSTyU

[Daniel Boon]

The mahout hit the elephant several times with a hook to calm it down/discipline it!

It then went berserk.

I saw a documentary where a group of mahout were trained to direct the elephants with the slightest of pressure with fingers... that many mahouts were happy to throw away the cruel hook, whereas others kept them ...

so if you get asked nicely, you're more likely to comply; however, if a mahout feels he loses face by not being able to control - in this instance - the elephant ... someone is going to ultimately pay

[Daniel Boon]

They have elephants on that little island ? Its was obviously brought there to make a quick buck.

Several years ago a British father of two watched in horror as both his daughters were turned to jam by an angry elephant .

An elephant is a 5 tonne dumb animal with an equally stupid mahout riding it.

Animal tourism is a 3 rd world rip off. None of these animals or reptiles ask to be treated like tourist trinkets.

People never get the hint. There are certain things you never do in Thailand. Dont ride motorbikes,dont ride elephants,dont kiss snakes and dont drink moonshine or use drugs. Ignore these facts and youre asking for trouble.

what a dumb thing to say .. that the elephant is dumb

[springheeled jack]

i am not quite sure about this i will try and put down what i think happened he was riding the elephant and teased it with a banana the elephant got upset at being teased and gored him having done that the elephant fled.

[springheeled jack]

i am not quite sure about this i will try and put down what i think happened he was riding the elephant and teased it with a banana the elephant got upset at being teased and gored him having done that the elephant fled.

[Nicolas32]

Gareth Crowe: British tourist trampled and gored to death by elephant in front of teenage daughter in Thailand in front of teenage daughter in Thailand

Gareth Crowe was taking part in a trek on the island of Koh Samui in Thailand when the animal turned on its handler after he got down to take photographs. He and his 16-year-old daughter, Eilidh, were thrown by the elephant which is then said to have trampled Mr Crowe and stabbed him through the chest with his tusk - killing him instantly.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/gareth-crowe-british-tourist-trampled-and-gored-to-death-by-elephant-in-front-of-teenage-daughter-in-thailand/ar-BBp00UV?li=BBoPWjQ

Edited February 2, 2016 by seedy
forum Rule

[Benmart]

The elephant then fled the scene it is unclear whether or not the elephant has been captured.

Did they get a description of the elephant?

Apparently it had tusks and was covered in blood.

It was apprehended trying to get the first available ferry off the island.

A man has been killed. A young girl seriously injured. I find no humour in the pain and misery of others, and only disdain for those that do.

[Chairman Of The Board]

The elephant then fled the scene it is unclear whether or not the elephant has been captured.

Did they get a description of the elephant?

Apparently it had tusks and was covered in blood.

It was apprehended trying to get the first available ferry off the island.

A man has been killed. A young girl seriously injured. I find no humour in the pain and misery of others, and only disdain for those that do.

I agree, there seems to be many posters on this thread (some of them long term and respected posters) who find it appropriate to make fun of this situation.

Shame on you all.

[cumgranosalum]

The Elephant was hot and tired,probably worked too hard,and

just got fed up with been poked with a sharp stick,who can blame

it getting pissed off, they are not dumb animals,like they say

Elephants never forget,and it was most likely just remembering

past abuses.

regards Worgeordie

I don't think anthropomorphism helps us understand elephants or the situation reported on this thread.

[sawadee1947]

On another website I read the story:

The elephant was a male and already the whole day wild, meaning in heat. To get him to work the mahout used the iron hook many times.

For a photo the Scottish with his 16 year old daughter sat on his neck teasing him with bananas. When they climbed down the elephant attacked first the mahout and then the Scot. At the end he killed him with his tusk and ran away.

So the tourist died because of greediness. This male elephant shouldn't have used for carrying anybody but to stay in his coral for a while.

It's a shame. RIP

[Fairynuff]

They have elephants on that little island ? Its was obviously brought there to make a quick buck.

Several years ago a British father of two watched in horror as both his daughters were turned to jam by an angry elephant .

An elephant is a 5 tonne dumb animal with an equally stupid mahout riding it.

Animal tourism is a 3 rd world rip off. None of these animals or reptiles ask to be treated like tourist trinkets.

People never get the hint. There are certain things you never do in Thailand. Dont ride motorbikes,dont ride elephants,dont kiss snakes and dont drink moonshine or use drugs. Ignore these facts and youre asking for trouble.

Elephants are definitely not dumb. Mahouts.... No comment

[DaveinAsia]

If Thailand respects itself at all they should close all these businesses, as well as other cruel enterprises like Tiger and Crocodile Prisons and all animals returned to the wild. Buddhism doesn't allow cruelty to animals. I'm sure it will generate more tourism in the long run.

[cumgranosalum]

On another website I read the story:

The elephant was a male and already the whole day wild, meaning in heat. To get him to work the mahout used the iron hook many times.

For a photo the Scottish with his 16 year old daughter sat on his neck teasing him with bananas. When they climbed down the elephant attacked first the mahout and then the Scot. At the end he killed him with his tusk and ran away.

So the tourist died because of greediness. This male elephant shouldn't have used for carrying anybody but to stay in his coral for a while.

It's a shame. RIP

OK - firstly - the they are saying the elephant was in musth - this is NOT "in heat"

This means one of rwo things - they are looking ofr an excuse, and they have put their foot in it because they basically have admitted they don't know how to handle an elephant.

The use of these "ankus" or hooks is normal practice on elephants - it is of course very distasteful and cruel, but most tourists choose to ignore it.

if the hook was being used more than normal, it also shows further that the keeper didn't know what he was doing....whether or not this goaded the animal further cannot be really established and tin musth and elephant's behaviour is unpredictable - goad or not.

the concept of "teasing" is yet another example of anthropomorphism and really doesn't help very much.

i don't actually think that ANY newspaper report at present is a very good guide to what happened - only a full inquiry would achieve that....but we know full well that all will happen is a load of platitudes from the local authorities designed to calm the public and keep the tourist trade coming.

[oslooskar]

“Most tourists don’t know about these abuses, or the potential danger they put themselves in.

Unfortunately most Westerners who are untraveled fail to realize that kindness and respect for animals is not as common in the Third World as it is in First World nations.

[sawadee1947]

RIP my country man, I hope they do not decide to something awful to the elephant to keep TAT and the animal rights people appeased.

To the "riding animals" brigade are you serious?

Without the help of elephants, horses, donkeys this modern world we have would still be in the dark ages.

I abhor the abuse of animals in Thailand, or anywhere else in the world.

Mahuts love their Elephants, it's a relationship that can Span decades, do not deride these guys or their majestic mounts!

yes -we are serious - you are making the classic assumptions that ill-informed make about elephants.

First mistake: they are NOT comparable with other "domesticated" beasts of burden

They have been used for riding (and even war) but their skeletons are not suited to bearing loads on their backs.

Their main use has always been for PULLING which is a completely different thing.

You imply that the history of the elephant goes back millennia - this is actually not true - they just weren't very good at it and in those days people had know idea about how an elephant's body worked (or any other body for that matter). They had no explanation for the not uncommon paralysis in elephants that had been repeatedly forced to carry stuff on their backs. You will still see elephants today that have paralyzed rear legs etc. due to this.

Then you speak the unspeakable........

"Mahouts love their Elephants, it's a relationship that can Span decades, do not deride these guys or their majestic mounts!" - in Thailand THIS IS ABSOLUTE NONSENSE!!!

most "mahouts" - and they really don't deserve this name are employed part-time or short term - they are only partially "trained" and in reality just know a series of often violent actions to make their elephants perform for the public.

Often elephants are owned by an owner who LEASES them to a "mahout" who then takes the animal away long or short term to make money out of it any way he can. There are few laws to protect the animal; they are no more than chattels. Even in genuine conservation parks, the relationship between minder and elephant is often only short term as the pay is simply not enough to keep a young man and his family.

The idea of a long mahout/elephant relationship is just a "Kipling myth".

In the west we all abhor animal cruelty; the problem is so many in the west are too ignorant of the issues to recognise it when they see it.

That is not quite right yet. It's not just a "Kipling myth" as you said.

Indeed A mahout is an elephant rider, trainer, or keeper.Usually, a mahout starts as a boy in the 'family profession' when he is assigned an elephant early in its life. They remain bonded to each other throughout their lives.

^{That's what Wiki says and I saw it in India by myself.}

^{Nowadays elephants are "rented" out by the owners. It's unfortunately a business, no matter it's suitable for those animals.}

^{And you are not quite right concerning the "use" of elephants in history. They did not pull but carry a lot. If you want to know more please see here:}

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_elephant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_elephants_in_Europe

[seedy]

A man has been killed. His daughter was seriously injured. That this topic must be Moderated to remove Off Topic posts, Jokes etc goes beyond the Pale.

[oldsailor35]

The Elephant was hot and tired,probably worked too hard,and

just got fed up with been poked with a sharp stick,who can blame

it getting pissed off, they are not dumb animals,like they say

Elephants never forget,and it was most likely just remembering

past abuses.

regards Worgeordie

Been chatting with a few Elephants recently have you Geordie.